Today's hotfix has been delayed, everyone. We'll let you know when a new time has been decided.

How Enmasse and AVA can improve

1. A dedicated staff for AVA. Having 2 GMs being in charge of this game plus other games is ridiculous. I have never seen a game publishing company delegate more than 1 game to a GM or staff. AVA is a game that needs constant maintenance due to its extremely outdated engine and jaded players. How do you expect a GM to answer questions and deal with cheaters in three different games? Even ijji, where they had multiple GMs just for AVA, there were cheat outbreaks and elusive cheaters like ccman. Now imagine a worse cheater situation but with the game staff's time for this game cut by two-thirds.

You want to know why ijji had relatively few hacker issues? The dumb moron who everyone from casual pubstars like me to everyone's god SnowShovel made fun of, the "there are no problems with the netcode" GM (later PM) Devilito would play games in his sock account for most of his hours (and probably off-time as well). If there was a suspicious player with coinciding reports while he played, he would quickly ban them.

Yes, multiple GMs means more costs for Enmasse but making GMs care for multiple games is mind-boggling. If one GM goes on a break for an extended amount of time (family issues, maternity leave, etc), thousands of players are screwed. You can't expect Operatives, people who literally do it for free, to handle a workload of a GM who gets paid a salary/consistent wage.

2. Bringing (back) new/veteran players, and retaining them. Korean AVA has many events designed for returning players, giving them new weapons so they can catch back up with current players with the newest powercreep weapons. What veteran player retention system does this version have? Also, the only reason why this game even sees new players is because of the deal ijji made with Steam, where if you play one complete match of AVA, you get a rose knife for Spy in TF2. This is important later, but these new players just play a single game, find out that their guns are useless/there are too many hackers, and they just leave. Cheating issue can be rectified with the first suggestion. Equipment issue can be rectified by giving new/veteran players red tickets or a good. permanent weapon. Have them pick a class and get them to do x number of matches to get a primary weapon of their choice. It's up to the GMs to figure out how best to do this. I am happy to help with translations for Korean AVA events/updates if you want to get an idea. Just contact me via PM.

3. Competitive. ESL seriously can't be the only organization that bothers to do anything competitive for AVA anymore. I don't even know if they're doing anything competitive for AVA anymore. Have semi-annual or seasonal tournaments that's hosted by Enmasse itself. Get players (or commission them) to create good weapon skins and use those for prizes to the tournament winners. There, you just made AVA more competitive and created a good event. Two birds with one stone, good job. Don't give me the bullcrap excuse of "we can't edit/add anything without redduck's permission!" I know for a fact that Chinese AVA poops out more tasteless garbage skins than all the other versions combined. I know for a fact that Japanese AVA has multiple unique weapons, not just skins, including the Arisaka. There is zero excuse for not doing any of this.

4. Sponsorship/"Partner" deals with third-party companies/franchises. I mentioned above about ijji/Valve event where TF2 players could get the Rose Knife for Spy. There was also an event for AVA players where if they downloaded AVA for Steam, they would get the Holy Mackerel from TF2. Contact Valve again for a similar event, but with different weapons. Maybe this time, TF2 players could get a Sniper RIfle skin (Fr-F2, perhaps) and AVA players can get a TF2 hat for a cosmetic. Japanese AVA has tons of franchise deals with anime companies. One was a AVA x Trigun deal where they made a new weapon for Trigun's signature weapon. Maybe AVA can have a franchise deal with, I don't know, John Wick like Payday 2 did. Korean AVA has events where they give out free movie tickets for movies they have deals with. I don't know, it's up to Enmasse to figure out what franchises they could get in contact with. Not only does this entice players for new items, but it also brings in more revenue that isn't simply from milking all the whales dry.

Comments

  • Actually caring about the game would be a nice place to start.They obviously gave up or think we don't deserve their attention lmao.
  • SilentSageSilentSage Member, Operative
    edited September 12
    There's no way that EME could invest in sponsorship, comeptitive scene and more staff without making a huge loss. The player count for AVA is already low and the profit gained from possible sales would never be able to back all those costs up. If they would sell Tera, Kritika, ZMR and Closers, then there might be a chance, but the profit they gain from Tera alone is probably bigger than Kritika, ZMR, AVA and closers combined. Plus add the fact that Tera is coming to Xbox and PS4 is gonna give'em alot of money.

    Also, even if AVA were to be competitive again, it has to compete, at least in the west, with Black Squad, Overwatch, LoL, Dota, csgo and even Pubg to an extent. Of course those are the big boys and comparing AVA to them is rather ridiculous, but that's just the analogy. Sponsors are never going to give out money to a game that's not profitable.

    Korea is a great spot for f2p games since you can mostly make deals with the PC bangs there, which'll increase your profit, but this kind of investment in the western environment for a 10 year old f2p game (which is already a turnoff for most) is never going to work.

    Sounds rather negative, but it's the reality. As much as I love this game, it's unmarketable. Heck Redduck is even putting new armor in this game and the game balance isn't that stellar either. Add other issues such as the buggy engine, tick rate, etc.

    If this discussion was in 2013-2014, I probably would've agreed. But the military f2p scene is dead (outside Black Squad and upcoming Iron Sight). There's nothing left here, consumers and sponsors are looking at the hero based shooters now, most of those are casual and you can jump in those games with your friends and have a great time, without trying too hard. You can't even play AVA casual anymore; go in any room and 70% of the time you'll have a guy who's thinking he's playing in the IESF final. Other players start bashing you because you didn't hear footsteps, but hey I was just listening to some music, mind your own business. You miss one shot, you get called out for noob etc, etc. A friendly community is also important.

    People actually don't mind spending money to get a full game rather than in-game monetization where 70% of the time it turns out to be pay to win, Overwatch is the pinnacle proof for this. The market has shifted.

    At this moment, I'd rather they'd invest in staff if they would want to keep this game alive till their contract runs out. And if it's worth for them, change the Steam API since it's ridden with negative reviews and/or reviews that only joke about getting the Rose engraved Knife for TF2.

  • Or you can quit like i did. :p
  • And the rest of NA.
  • Congratulations EME you just killed the game, there is no coming back at this point
  • Basically, they admit that they have given up on this game. How sad, they first ruin the game with the BM glitch and who knows wat else. Then they can't take any responsibility for it and instead blame it on the community. This situation looks pretty hopeless
  • @QBlackCatQ Why do you bring up the BM glitch,thats one of the few things they did right,stop complaining that you abused a glitch that was obviously bannable.
  • Insuciant is right..that was a good thing :)
  • QBlackCatQQBlackCatQ Member
    edited September 13
    insuciant wrote: »
    @QBlackCatQ Why do you bring up the BM glitch,thats one of the few things they did right,stop complaining that you abused a glitch that was obviously bannable.

    Dude I didn't even use the glitch. I play AVA here and there but not everyday because I'm quite busy. What I meant was they acted too slow and their communication wasn't helping the situation either. Ok for the sake of arguement. let's forget about the BM glitch. The game looks hopeless the way it is now and EnMasse has given up on the game.Silentsage just admitted that. So then how can we, the players, stay optimistic?
  • Erm, ye...
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  • RIP^


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  • > @insuciant said:
    > @QBlackCatQ Why do you bring up the BM glitch,thats one of the few things they did right,stop complaining that you abused a glitch that was obviously bannable.

    GM said they do rollbacks for all those players who use the bug. I saw too much high ranks players who are spended too much money for this game used it before when he said it.
  • Thats what I mean, lack of communication
  • SilentSage wrote: »
    There's no way that EME could invest in sponsorship, comeptitive scene and more staff without making a huge loss. The player count for AVA is already low and the profit gained from possible sales would never be able to back all those costs up. If they would sell Tera, Kritika, ZMR and Closers, then there might be a chance, but the profit they gain from Tera alone is probably bigger than Kritika, ZMR, AVA and closers combined. Plus add the fact that Tera is coming to Xbox and PS4 is gonna give'em alot of money.

    Also, even if AVA were to be competitive again, it has to compete, at least in the west, with Black Squad, Overwatch, LoL, Dota, csgo and even Pubg to an extent. Of course those are the big boys and comparing AVA to them is rather ridiculous, but that's just the analogy. Sponsors are never going to give out money to a game that's not profitable.

    Korea is a great spot for f2p games since you can mostly make deals with the PC bangs there, which'll increase your profit, but this kind of investment in the western environment for a 10 year old f2p game (which is already a turnoff for most) is never going to work.

    Sounds rather negative, but it's the reality. As much as I love this game, it's unmarketable. Heck Redduck is even putting new armor in this game and the game balance isn't that stellar either. Add other issues such as the buggy engine, tick rate, etc.

    If this discussion was in 2013-2014, I probably would've agreed. But the military f2p scene is dead (outside Black Squad and upcoming Iron Sight). There's nothing left here, consumers and sponsors are looking at the hero based shooters now, most of those are casual and you can jump in those games with your friends and have a great time, without trying too hard. You can't even play AVA casual anymore; go in any room and 70% of the time you'll have a guy who's thinking he's playing in the IESF final. Other players start bashing you because you didn't hear footsteps, but hey I was just listening to some music, mind your own business. You miss one shot, you get called out for noob etc, etc. A friendly community is also important.

    People actually don't mind spending money to get a full game rather than in-game monetization where 70% of the time it turns out to be pay to win, Overwatch is the pinnacle proof for this. The market has shifted.

    At this moment, I'd rather they'd invest in staff if they would want to keep this game alive till their contract runs out. And if it's worth for them, change the Steam API since it's ridden with negative reviews and/or reviews that only joke about getting the Rose engraved Knife for TF2.

    Paragraph 1: Publisher-funded tournaments don't have to be in the scale of Valve and the DotA2 tournament they have. Don't fool yourself. Even a game that generates probably the least revenue in the Enmasse library can surely invest 500-1,000 dollars for small semi-annual/seasonal tournaments. One other objective publisher-funded tournaments complete is showing players that they actually care beyond putting 2 year old weapons behind a paywall.

    Paragraph 2: See above. You don't have to chase the ultra-MLG-military-grade-RGB-lighting-gamer brands like Razer or Corsair.

    Paragraph 3: PC Cafe deals are a portion of what Pmang does. They also make deals with movie franchises, even John Wick if I remember correctly. This game is literally 10 years old, and it's competing with similar games like Black Squad, Overwatch, CSGO (though not as big), Battlefield, PUBG, and a myriad of other games on top of other F2P games Nexon and other publishers crap out. Are you seriously telling me AVA can't attract even a small company/franchise for a deal that doesn't even have to be monetary?

    Paragraph 4: I had no idea CSGO was dead. Guess I better sell all my skins and get fifteen copies of PUBG amirite? The reason I made this thread was to give some suggestions on how Enmasse can improve AVA, even if by little, but here you are, saying AVA will never improve. If even the Operatives (aren't you supposed to be the community representatives or something else besides being glorified mailmen/forum enforcers?) are giving up, then Enmasse should just kill off this game. No wonder the community isn't improving in their attitude toward new/outside players: even the Operatives bent down and are taking it in the rear.

    Last two paragraphs: That is up to Redduck, this thread is about how Enmasse can improve as a publisher, mostly to show that they care about their players. I really don't get this meme behind "WOW DOOD THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO REDDUCK MAKES ALL THE BIGBOY DECISIONS" that prevents Enmasse from doing things even Chinese AVA can do. I guess Japanese AVA get special permission from Redduck, huh?
  • SilentSageSilentSage Member, Operative
    edited September 21
    Paragraph 4: I had no idea CSGO was dead. Guess I better sell all my skins and get fifteen copies of PUBG amirite? The reason I made this thread was to give some suggestions on how Enmasse can improve AVA, even if by little, but here you are, saying AVA will never improve. If even the Operatives (aren't you supposed to be the community representatives or something else besides being glorified mailmen/forum enforcers?) are giving up, then Enmasse should just kill off this game. No wonder the community isn't improving in their attitude toward new/outside players: even the Operatives bent down and are taking it in the rear.

    I said the military free to play scene is dead/dying outside Black Squad and Iron sight. Never said or implied csgo is dead. OP's have their own opinion too, I'm just basing everything I say from what I see with my own eyes: in-game, on the forums, on Discord and behind the scenes with EME. I'm not a shill, I'm still a player.

    Now why did I say AVA can't/won't improve -drastically- anymore? It has already hit its peak (10 years old) and the environment it's in now, is way too hostile with (big [filtered]) companies pumping money in their own shooters. Overwatch is out for 40 bucks, csgo and Pubg are here for 15 and 30 bucks, Quake champions (in early acces) and Lawbreakers are out for 30, Black Squad is rocking 6k-7k players on average and is free and there are some other shooters like Unreal Tournament 4, Dirty Bomb, Planetside 2.. that have a nice following and steady playerbase and are also free. This whole oversaturated fps market has hurt AVA the most in the past few months. Which is also why I fear that this game won't hit a 1k-2k playerpeak in the near future.

    Summit1g played this game, he didn't stay and that was way before this mess.The game's sitting at page 13 on Steam (which is why I suggest they get a new steam ID for ava) and a lot of people already vomit at the thought of f2p with people still thinking AVA is p2w even though you can perfectly own this game with euro weapons.

    If EME starts hiring more people, starts communicating more, etc etc, then yes this game can improve. But in it's current state it is realistically unmarketable and cannot keep up with the competition, if it were then we wouldn't be sitting at <500 players.

    That's what I'm seeing at the moment and ofcourse that opinion can change if EME steps on the pedal. Does this change my love for the game? No, it's still one of my favorite games with one of the best- if not the best- shooter core I've every played. And I still respect EME for what they atleast have accomplished with hosting this game without any prior experience in the FPS community. But at the moment, it's too much for the staff to handle.

    Paragraph 1: Publisher-funded tournaments don't have to be in the scale of Valve and the DotA2 tournament they have. Don't fool yourself. Even a game that generates probably the least revenue in the Enmasse library can surely invest 500-1,000 dollars for small semi-annual/seasonal tournaments. One other objective publisher-funded tournaments complete is showing players that they actually care beyond putting 2 year old weapons behind a paywall.

    500-1000 dollar investment in Esports I can sure agree with, but will the directors agree? Invest 1000 dollars, you gotta get that back somehow, how will they? You wanna market the game too (you gotta get some more players interested), that's an extra cost, add more staff to manage the comp scene and game in general, that's more money you gotta get back. They're a business, and businesses take risks and must make investments, but if you have game's like Tera and Kritika running, I don't think they would want to risk it.

    And Xigncode3 is still here...

    Like I said, I'd rather they invest more in staff before they start investing money in the competitive scene.
    Are you seriously telling me AVA can't attract even a small company/franchise for a deal that doesn't even have to be monetary?

    Has any company come forward to support AVA with some (great) deals in the last few years? Those are even times when AVA was way more popular. There was ofcourse the gamecoach.tv pack (http://www.gamecoach.tv/en/register/ava) which was very nice, but that's all I can think off. As mentioned before, game's sitting at page 13 on steam with mixed to mostly negative reviews. You think a company want's too associate themselves with such game?
    Last two paragraphs: That is up to Redduck, this thread is about how Enmasse can improve as a publisher, mostly to show that they care about their players. I really don't get this meme behind "WOW DOOD THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO REDDUCK MAKES ALL THE BIGBOY DECISIONS" that prevents Enmasse from doing things even Chinese AVA can do. I guess Japanese AVA get special permission from Redduck, huh?
    I agree on that, but there's still truth to that meme when changing the Anticheat, which is so lackluster, is in the hands of "bigboi Redduck".


    In the end we all want the same thing and see this game atleast being kept alive and gain more support from EME for the time being. But I just think they gotta do it one step at a time: beginning by getting more and dedicated staff for this game. Smoreceror is doing his darn best, but you can't just singlehandedly manage 2 communities at the same time.


    EDIT: time's ticking now, even Iron Sight is coming out in the west with a closed beta in November...
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