A note from BearShoes about the current Seth Fanart Contest: https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/10398/an-update-to-the-seth-fanart-contest/

Sylvi PVP Rant

Don't know where else to put this put, but what the hell did Sylvi do to Naddic Games to be placed in such a dumpster tier in PVP
On the list of reason Sylvi is the worst PVP chars right now:

-She has no invulnerability skills, why? There's no reason for her wormhole buffer to at least make her invulnerable none of her other skills make her unbalanced enough to balance her with no I-frames
-She has just one terrible, inconstant grab that is easily affected by lag. The range and pull radius of her telekinetic explosion is based on her elevation and needs to be timed perfectly to be pulled into her to start her combo chain going, and it often times only knocks opponents up into the air and straight back down if they're lagging.
-Her finishing moves are garbage in pvp. Her bus is so easily predictable with the huge wind up that many character can dash through it. Her satellite is the "bus: on steroids it is possibly the worst pvp FM in the game, the massive dmg is irrelevant to the fact that it has such a HUGE windup. There's a big problem when a Tina can just run up to you and cancel your FM3 during the huge ass animation with her minigun.
-Her secondary resource "bits" actually harms her in pvp it locks half her skills away and the benefits of bit consumption is made null by the crit dmg cap.
-Her phase ductility is also pointless in pvp since most chars already have 100% pen and again the added crit dmg is useless because of the crit dmg cap so using it consumes her much needed bits and can lock skills out.

I know all of this ranting is useless cuz Enmasse can't really do balance patches and Sylvi is already a lot better in the KR version because of SA and other buffs but goddamn is current Sylvi not absolute trash right now and I needed a place to vent about her current state.

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Comments

  • nyxonnyxon Member

    ik the pain....her wormhole "iframe" is a fake iframe lmao...but dw...her SA is coming next, she'll finally have a legit iframe...YAY!...only one tho...the electric ball thingy...where she becomes the electric ball...but that doesnt mean she's now stronger...she's basically just 'playable'

  • Lexy6Lexy6 Member

    patient my boy just wait till she get her promotion

  • yOhfLyyOhfLy Member

    then wtf i cant beat pro sylvi in pvp if she is the worst pvp char.
    if your pro sylvi in pvp maybe you will have no problem in pvp i think.

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    You should watch Coraline or Linium Sylvi PvP. They make her strong. :J

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    Also, SA does give Sylvi's some salvation. Regarding the bits there are other characters with skills that require a prerequisite. Take misteltein's Fenrir for example. Some characters don't get instant lengthy skill buff either like Sylvi. Tina you have to maintain hella buffs on top of making sure you don't waist your skills for when you need it. Just pro's and con's of some characters and kinda similar.

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited June 2018

    be me
    see fellow sylvi main
    see fellow sylvi main in pain

    lemme give u a hug my dude

    Ok let's get real though. Almost everything you say is right.

    Sylvi as she currently stands is, in my opinion, the worst character in the game. Followed shortly by Yuri, then J/Harpy. In KR though, she's not low-tier; I'd call her a pretty solid mid-tier as far as other characters go, especially because of the revamp changes and continuous nerfs being applied to literally every character that isn't Sylvi.

    So the future is looking good at least!

    Though I agree, I'll at least comment on the points, maybe give some tips. I have these kind of rants daily on my streams... Doesn't mean that I can't talk about them though!

    I'll have some links as examples to some of the things I mean, so make sure to click on them.

    Regarding your first point-
    She does indeed have no iframe, but with her Special Agent we get an instant iframe (EX Supercluster) that works much like Snake Signet. Its range is far smaller as is its duration, but overall it's a pretty solid iframe due to its potential for movement.The damage ticks during it are really bad but if anyone is close to you during the final explosion it will hit for Electric Storm levels of damage, which is really good! So although its punishable and other iframes will get buffed in the future (Body Massage mspeed increase, Signet mspeed increase/duration nerf), when it comes out it probably will be one of the better iframes out there.

    You can also go pseudo-vanilla and not "have an iframe" but still use it offensively: you can purposely blow your iframe (use then instantly let go) to get the "Supercharged state", which will make your Electric Storm do x2 damage on its next cast. It's not really good with Expert Cube since you have to abandon your iframe for it, but with Master Cube (which you'll be able to get with Tunes at 80/83 cap), it will give you the buff on every use, making it pretty good as far as iframes go. At least when compared to EX Spread Shot, poor Yuri.

    So this, thankfully, will be resolved.

    Regarding the second point-
    You're right. You are so damn right. And unfortunately that also means you have to play with that in mind. Sylvi does not win games through grabs or combos; if you do it means you did the hardest of reads or punished an enemy perfectly, with Telekinetic being possibly the worst grab in the game period. You need Bits to cast it, so if you have been comboed for too long or aren't blowing your skills in neutral to keep generating Bits to avoid decay, you can't even grab. It cannot be early cancelled or it force KDs. Because Sylvi's combat dodge puts her in the air it becomes the worst grab in terms of range out of the entire cast when done off a space approach. Telekinetic also has a pretty high cooldown to it too, especially when compared to other much better grabs. It has some of the most limited and wonky hitbox out of any grab, and unlike most lingering grabs, hitting telekinetic does not mean you land the grab itself. Did I mention that you can avoid Telekinetic just by being close to the wall because of its pushback?

    Heck, even Yuri's grab is better. It doesn't help that most grabs also have this large y axis range, while telekinetic does not.

    Honestly I have more footage of Telekinetic bugging or screwing up than landing - and not due to whiffs either.

    The solution? Telekinetic is secondary. Harpy, J, Nata, Tina, Yuri, Tein- practically every character that isn't Seha (and potentially Levia due to FM pressure) have much of their gameplan be focused around landing grabs and forcing out Cancels with them. Do not play like this if you're a Sylvi. Your main focus should not be to catch, but do deal damage in chip/poke during neutral, with grabs being a potential avenue only - and if only - the stars align. Since you can't play around a bad grab, it's often better to not put yourself into situations where you can be punished while trying to get a grab that will trade at best, bug out completely at worst. Instead, have grab be something you use only in very specific punishes, like maybe a Levia signet, or as an FC Reversal out of an enemy combo, but don't ever rely on it.

    A lot of my matches are won without a single grab ever landing. That says a lot, and that's what you should keep in mind when playing Sylvi.

    Regarding the third point-
    You're also right. Let me preface my writing by the fact that Sylvi has the highest FM cooldowns in the game! Although all FMs start at the same time, their "recast" times are different: Bus is 38/39 seconds at max CDR, Yuri Star is around 30/31. Most character's FM2s are on a 36/37 second cooldown (including extremely strong FMs like Harpy's FM2), but Sylvi's is on 49/50 seconds. And lets not even talk about FM3's cooldown...

    Really, Sylvi's FM3 is so horribly bad that's it's actually kind of pathetic. Heck, any character can just jump and use a skill: if you're slightly above max jump height, Sylvi's FM3 will not hit you at all! Even in mirrors, I can just do dash jump auto and then waltz around with Psychic Satellite over the enemy Sylvi's FM3 without giving a damn. Lets not forget the fact that its cast time is so long that any character can use a skill - even those that aren't inherently dashes - and then walk away from the zone before the cast goes off. Or if they're clever, they can just... you know. Walk up FM you mid animation for a free catch.

    It does have its uses though. Very limited uses, but uses nonetheless.

    This is only really applicable to the Sylvi mirror and potentially Tein, but you can setplay enemies by locking them in FM freeze inside of FM3.

    Against good players, this will not work. Seha can just dash out without worry (Dash or Shot -> Dash), as can Yuri (Sonic or Lunging or even EX Spread, if she doesn't just counter FM3 with the iframe to recatch you) as can Harpy (will never work since Air Driver recast bypasses FM freeze, not to mention literally any other tool from Wind Sting to Cyclone), as can J (Punch Through; if too far Punch Through into Body Massage), as can Nata (enh Sure Kill, Endless Pursuit - which will outlast the FM even if cast before hit - or just FM1 reversal), as can Levia (Snake Signet, Serpent Waltz, Designated Sacrifice if near edge), as can Tina (Dive, Trick Shot, Sharpshooter, Close Quarters if not near centre, or potentially just FM3 after Cancel for a reversal).

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited June 2018

    Tein can avoid it simply by using his FM3 (and catching you with it, as in order for Bus to freeze frame you have to be within range of his FM3), but if he doesn't have it its a valid option since his Lance Charging is hot garbage. Sylvi cannot avoid it since Wormhole has a cast time so it's an easy punish and will expire its teleport when frozen and have you just drop to the floor (not to mention its easy to react to Wormhole).

    This also doesn't work against players that hold their Cancel. After all if they only Cancel to immune the actual Satellite Crash, then there's nothing you can do. It's not like the fiery zone does any damage anyways. What a good FM we got here /s

    Either way it will allow you do to some combo damage before they late cancel. It can also still be surprising to most, especially those not used to it. Most Natas will Endless Pusuit if you do this, but if you can get an FM3 to land on the fall off of Endless Pursuit then they Cancel, its likely they either won't be ready for your setplay and will fall for it. Naturally this won't work at all if they have FM1 or if they hold Cancel, but it's a viable tool to punish overly trigger happy players. It's also the ultimate newbie curbstomper, since every newbie is going to instant cancel and then Combat Dodge or just walk away - so until people catch onto the fact this setplay is garbage you can at least take some souls with it.

    In general though, I use it as a defensive FM. FM1 and 2 to catch, FM3 is if I don't have Cancel - then I run to the edge of the stage, start my cast and pray to God above that they won't combat dodge -> FM me before my cast ends. If God listens to my prayers I get to sit down in my safe zone for a while to stall for Cancel and reset to neutral, which is decent as far as FMs go.

    Honestly Bus isn't that bad. It has some of the worst freeze frame range in the game and its painfully hard to aim. When compared to Seha FM1, Harpy FM1, Nata FM1, Levia FM1, Tina FM1... ok it's bad but-

    I'd say its situational. If a Yuri uses Yuri star preemptively, Bus is a great punish for the followup. You can punish Nata's FM1 on falloff if you're perfect with your timing (pretty hard but possible), you can use it for FM seplays and you can snipe aerial opponents with it if you're good. Unfortunately it doesn't hit ceiling height, so keep that in mind, but at least it's better than J's FM1 or Tein's FM1 and has its places. You'll need like 2000iq to land it consistently, but once you start getting the aiming down its a passable FM. Worst case you can use it defensively for the freeze frame, horrible though it is.

    It has a decent property where if the hand-lift animation goes off, Bus will always come out no matter what, even if you're hitstunned, similar to Levia's FM3 (although your animation until its a guaranteed drop takes a bit longer, its still very fast). So you can often use it to trade and its very hard to punish a Bus. People can get out of it piss easy, sure, but it's a passable trade tool and probably the best FM on your kit.

    Sylvi FM2 is... well, it's like a budget Yuri FM2 with higher cooldown and smaller range. It also has no real lingering grab immune on ground use, which is very punishable. Its ok I guess, nothing to write home about. You can punish iframes with it and use it on reaction to enemy FMs (if their FMs are reactable). Preferably never use FM2 pro-actively, do it only as a counter FM punish (if first catch). If the enemy has no Cancel and you feel confident you can land it though, it's probably your best recatching tool.

    At least you don't have J FMs. Those are probably the worst in the game if I'm to be entirely honest. Or the garbo ground Yuri Star, or Tina's FM2. Your neutral game though is pretty bad, so even if your FMs are not that good you will still have to manage them well. Unlike Telekinetic where it becomes a secondary tool, winning matches as Sylvi typically depends on you landing two consecutive FMs one after another - the first to bait Cancel, the second to recatch - so don't use FMs unless you're certain you can get a punish or you have another one in store to recatch with. Don't want to be wasting an FM to force out a Cancel then be unable to follow up after all. Learn how to use your FMs wisely.

    The rest of your character after all, is even worse than your FM game.

    Regarding the fourth point.
    Simply... profound sadness.

    Being locked out of:
    -Both your restands (Gravity Flux and Telekinetic)
    -Grab (Telekinetic)
    -Long Range Poke Tool (Railgun)
    -Super Armour and Damage (enh Elec Storm - if used non enh it has no lingering SA which makes it a free catch if you tried using it for fall SA)

    Is really pretty aids. Special Agent is only going to make this worse too! Currently Blades of Discipline is on a 4~ second cooldown and generates 6 Bits, while EX Blades is on a 6+ second cooldown and generates 3 Bits. Unlike regular Blades, EX Blades is also an important poke/chip damage tool you really don't want to blow in neutral. Once we get Master Cube (80/83 level cap) management becomes even more difficult, as enhanced EX Blades happens every third cast, and wasting an enh EX Blades on Bit generation is very, very unwise.

    Still...

    We seem to have some madlads that don't think this is that bad!? Insanity I say.

    @Adorable said:
    Also, SA does give Sylvi's some salvation. Regarding the bits there are other characters with skills that require a prerequisite. Take misteltein's Fenrir for example. Some characters don't get instant lengthy skill buff either like Sylvi. Tina you have to maintain hella buffs on top of making sure you don't waist your skills for when you need it. Just pro's and con's of some characters and kinda similar.

    Good point, except that its a tad bit wrong. Sylvi doesn't get any lengthy skill buffs.

    Bits don't actually give you anything. They're a resource. You consume them for skills - not just to enhance skills or make them do more damage - but to fundamentally alter your skill properties and to activate them to begin with! Skills like Gravity Flux not only need Bits to be used at all, but without extra bits to use the followup, it will even fail to re-stand enemies. Also did you know that Telekinetic doesn't actually get its followup explosion damage without additional bits to enhance it? Sure, Tina has to manage buffs but all she gets is some damage increases. Sylvi doesn't get even that - she just gets to use her damn skills.

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited June 2018

    Sylvi does have a buff that she manages, being Exploit Weakness: Bits. This, presently, doesn't help much at all, but with Special Agent she gets Bits: Phase Amplifier. This at least, will give her more damage on her skills. Unlike Tina however, where her buffs more or less stay forever until they are consumed (Cryogen and Overheat), offer flat damage increases on skill usage (Gun Kata, Tracking Sequence) or just actually stay forever (Hotshot stacks over the course of a match - and for a skill that is capable of matching Sylvi's Electric Storm damage even with low stacks), Sylvi's buffs last only 8 seconds while being tied only to Bit interactive skills - and much like Tina, keeping this up is a necessity to deal the damage she's infamous for. Remember that Wormhole, Supercluster, Psychic Satellite and Electric Storm don't actually aid its upkeep, and since it's not just a buff (like Gun Kata) but a stackable buff, if you lose your stacks you're back to square one and have to build it all over again.

    But wait! Electric Storm consumes Bits!

    Unfortunately it does so from a Cube as opposed to passively, so it does not count. But talking about managing "hella buffs", it seems there's some things you missed about Sylvi! There's the EML buff from Railgun (13 seconds) that is important to getting damage done when in Empowered. How about managing Magnetic Infusion's Psyche Ward buff (10 seconds) to resist enemy damage? Let's not forget that if you actually want to hit hard, you are reliant on getting off Magnetic Infusion's Poltergeist Debuff on the enemy and then landing skills during its duration (10 seconds).

    But... even getting the EML buff requires you to use multiple Bits for its full cast. And you need to keep using Magnetic Infusion just to manage your Bit upkeep, so now you have to choose between actually using it for its debuff + damage potential or blowing it so that you have enough Bits to use your skills with.

    Not to mention that Sylvi will actually a far harder time managing buffs with Special Agent. EX Supercluster's Expert Cube will give the "Supercharged" buff, much like Tina's own Cryogen on use, which is then used to enhance the damage of Electric Storm. There's a catch though!

    Without Master Cube, you have to instantly let go if your iframe. That's right! So while Tina can sit on her fridge and still build up a Cryogen stack, Sylvi has to abandon her iframe entirely and blow it without getting the iframe advantage from it just to get her buff. It also doesn't stack, though granted it does double Electric Storm damage. It should be noted however, that Supercharge works a little differently from other raw attack bufs because it does not factor in conditionals and their respective Crit Damage, meaning it's realistically a 40-50% damage increase rather than a 100% increase.

    But still, even though we do have to "maintain hella bufs on top of making sure you don't waist your skills for when you need it", we also need to manage Bits. Except that we don't lose out on damage, we lose out on the skill itself. So we're already kind of doing what a character like Tina has to do, except its even worse!

    You know why? Because unlike buffs that stay forever until they are consumed, Bits have a timer.

    Tein? He only has one skill which consumes spear stacks, being Fenrir, his Grab Immune - funny how Sylvi's Grab Immune also needs Bits! Except so too do so many others... You can build 6 stacks relatively easy and use 3 on the full Fenrir usage then still have enough without needing to refresh for a second use. That's also it though; all his other skills work regardless of stacks - build them early and you're good to go for the game with at least two guaranteed casts, after all spears don't decay. Ever.

    Decay? Timer? Oh yes, that's right. Bits will decay. They will decay whether you use them or you don't. They will always decay.

    Let me first explain how bits work and the sheer idiocy that is managing them. Each and every Bit you generate counts as its own independent buff with a falloff timer of around 25 seconds. If I use Magnetic Infusion, I will begin to generate 10 Bits over the course of about 7 seconds in 2 Bit ticks. Each one of these 2 Bits counts as its own "stack" with its own independent timer.

    Say I then use Blades of Discipline to generate a further 6. This also counts as its own stack and I am now at 16 Bits. This, however, has not reset the stack on my Magnetic Infusion Bits. Skills that consume Bits will begin to eat away at the oldest stack of Bits, but if not all Bits are used, this does not stop the decay timer.

    So let's take I use Magnetic Infusion, begin generating Bits and after 8 seconds I am now at 10. Then four seconds later, I use Combat Dodge into Blades of Discipline (14 seconds in) and am now sitting at 16 bits. Now I have no Bit Generating skills aside from Space Elasticity, which is also an important Grab Immune, so I choose to hold onto it. Shortly after the enemy catches me with an FM (say, 19 seconds in). He proceeds to combo be for around 8 seconds (26 seconds in) and I use my Cancel to escape and Wormhole away.

    Before being caught, I'd have had 16 Bits. After being caught however, I am now sitting at 12, no 10, no-

    6 Bits (30 seconds in, lost all of my Magnetic Bits without using them).

    I run to the edge of the stage to make distance and use Railgun and get 2 casts off before the enemy enemy uses a movement skill to approach and punish my Railgun, so I am now at 4 Bits (37 seconds in, used 2 of my Blades of Discipline Bits) and preemptively cancel with Space Elasticity to immune what I think is an oncoming grab. But I do it too early. I then decide to followup with a Gravity Flux, which will last long enough to immune his grab and buy me time to-

    0 Bits (39 seconds in, Blades Bits decay). Gravity Flux does not cast, I am recaught by a grab and die to the combo.

    Wait what?
    But I had at least 6 Bits! I used skills! My Wormhole for one-

    That doesn't generate Bits.

    Yet I still used Railgun, which consumes Bits. It refreshes the Exploit Weakness: Bits debuff does it not?

    Indeed it does, however it does not refresh Bit Decay, as Bit Decay is independent of consumption. Even if you use a skill during the decay, this will not stop the decay.

    Still, I at least used Space Elasticity, so-

    Space Elasticity's Bit generation is delayed, which meant it did not add to the stack. Even if it did, its Bits would also be independent from the previous Bits, so decay would have happened regardless and I would still have lost my Magnetic and Blades Bits.

    Well...

    Damn.

    This scenario may sound slightly specific, but it most certainly isn't. Space Elasticity's delayed Bit Generation is troublesome to play around - and even if I were to use it, because it's such an important Grab Immune tool, blowing it in neutral for Bits alone is something that I have to do very sparingly as it might just result in my death. Aside from that, we then have Blades of Discipline and Magnetic Infusion, but Magnetic Infusion is an crucial lingering Super Armour tool to get out of trouble, not to mention that its buffs and debuffs are extremely important to maximising damage dealt.

  • I am left with only Blades of Discipline as a reliable Bit generation tool, but every 6 stack that I create is also independent from the last, which means I can abruptly lose 6 Bits out of nowhere if I did not punctuate my Bit generation with Bit consumption to use up the older Bits before they begin to decay. Keep in mind that if I have 19 Bits, then generate 12 from Space Elasticity, I will be capped at 20. And if I do that one second after Bit decay (say 6 from a Blades), I will be left with 14 Bits - only one of which will have originated from Space Elasticity while the rest then continues to decay shortly after.

    Not to mention that Blades is a skill that makes Sylvi be completely stationary, has no grab immune nor any lingering Super Armour.

    So Sylvi needs to continuously use a skill in neutral, that is punishable, just to be able to use her other skills. But once Special Agent comes, this changes, as the Super Armour revamp to EX Blades means that it also becomes an important lingering Super Armour tool, and instead of generating 6 Bits, it only generates 3!

    So really, as Sylvi we have to enjoy using Magnetic Infusion almost on cooldown if we want to have decent Bit upkeep, even if it means abandoning its buffs, debuffs and DoT damage, especially as the 3 Bit generation from EX Blades is not enough to fully charge a Gravity Flux, nor is it enough to enhance Electric Storm, nor is it enough to cast Railgun's multi-hit followup.

    Did I mention that with the KR revamp, Wormhole starts consuming 1 Bit per teleport too? And that, as its a Cube trait, does not affect Bits: Phase Amplifier?

    Oof.

    At least we do get our buff duration extended to 20 seconds up from 8. That's a plus at the very least.

    Now we come to the final point.
    This is actually one that...

    I disagree with!

    Yay, there's actually something good to be said here. Phase Ductility as a buff itself is useless: it consumes your bits, it's not a Grab Immune (J's Health Drink), it has inconsistent Super Armour and it momentarily roots your character (Levia's Summon Familiar), all without offering you 80%dr (Seha's Empowered). It's also on uh... a 40 second cooldown.

    On the surface this looks like a horrible tool.

    But in practice it's actually really good!

    If any enemy FMs you, you can use FM2 or FM3 for their freeze range (preferably not Bus, we already established Bus freeze frame range is garbo), then instant cancel with Phase Ductility. Phase Ductility has a very short animation that lets you act straight out of it, which allows for some clutch FM escapes. A Yuri FM2s and she's above you? Use your FM2, Phase Ductility, get out. A J approaches from the right and FM3s: you're still stuck facing left because of the FM freeze. It's ok, even if it won't hit you can use your FM3 then cancel with Phase Ductility and get out of range of the Tornado if you're fast.

    It can also be useful to cancel out of punishable animations. Stuck in Psychic Satellite and a Nata is coming to air Lasso you? Just Phase Ductility and run away. Use Bus but don't want to be animation locked during it? Phase Ductility. You're going to drop a combo after Wormhole because you have no skills to followup from? Phase Ductility then micro airdash auto.

    It may be the worst class buff of the lot in terms of it being an actual buff, but functionally it's actually a very strong skill. Most games you'll go without touching it, but when you do use it its value will become apparent.

    After all this what can I say...

    You're right. Sylvi is preeeeeeeetty garbage. Most garbage character I'd say. Aside from Telekinetic being dumb, her Super Armour being inconsistent, her Grab Immunes losing their SA2 before their animation/SA1 ends (which means you're animation locked but grab-able lmao), bad FMs, overall non-existent mobility, mediocre damage and ridiculous resource management-

  • -she's pretty fun. Hard to play, at least. Very hard. And with Special Agent she's about to get even harder.

    The trade off though, is that she'll also get a lot stronger.

    Just having an instant iframe is a blessing to avoid enemy FM setplays, and although it'll be a very long time until we can start doing the kind of damage that makes Sylvi not be bad in KR (also the reason we run Endurance Training in PvP boiiiiis), EX Blades - even without Master Cube - can really help out with dishing out chip damage over the course of the match.

    She won't be strong with her Special Agent, far from it. She won't be lowest tier, definitely not (Yuri can have that title for all I care), but she won't be strong. It'll still be a while before we get Sylvi at her full glory: level 80/83 for Master Cubes, Purification Gear to get 400k Supercharged enh Elec Storms and a whole revamp that massively improves her damage, mobility, punish game, trade potential and buff upkeep.

    Still, its only 7 days now until we're in a little better place. And though this won't be her saving grace, it will at the very least make it a little less insufferable to play this character.

    That's not to say you can't take souls with her as she is now, even if doing so is ridiculously hard.

    Adorable mentioned both myself and Coraline, who I link here. A bit of shameless promotion but you can check us out (me especially :wink: ) for some Sylvi gameplay and see what we do. I try to commentate my matches and if you catch me streaming feel free to ask questions and I'll answer.

    If you're interested in what Sylvi will be able to do, then this dude and this dude are by far the best Sylvis I've seen in KR

    Take solace in the fact that I'm as frustrated as you are, doggod, and have been for 6 months and over 5,000 matches (inc spars), so you're not alone. Keep it up and rock 'em. Even if we'll never be top tier, at some point in the future we won't be low either!

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    Lin u booli!

  • my walls cannot be stopped

  • ...

    Omg...

    Lino should have the badge for the best and long-argued Closers essay written in the forum.

  • sanks my dude really touches me ;;

  • Not gonna read that as well, :D Like the last one :D

  • GonzohGonzoh Member

    Lin i wont read thoses long ass bibles

  • knowledge is power
    seulbi is love

    this is why you guys are seha mains :angry:

  • Lini, do you have knowledges for other characters? I would like to see your guides for Yuri, Harpy and Tina

  • nyxonnyxon Member

    some of these are pretty much saying "get gud"...its easier said than done,....you'll be able to "get gud" if you have a decent gear with +12-13 and a good tuning (like the pro players you guys are talking about), tho if you have a bad rng and your gear is nothing but +11-10 with bad tuning, "get gud" wont be enough cause your damage is lighter than aerogel and they can pretty much grab you with any skill you use even with your "iframe" wormhole...esp if the enemy is lagging....and since you have a very weak damage, poking game wont be enough...

    .unless ofc you are blessed with rng jesus and gets a lot of good tuning and enhancement, then poking is pretty much how you will play her....

  • Continue ,like this Lin ,You give strength to all Seulbi player who wanna do PvP, i learn a lot thanks ! <3

    And don't forget guys Seulbi is the only light o:)

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited June 2018

    @nyxon said:
    "get gud" wont be enough cause your damage is lighter than aerogel and they can pretty much grab you with any skill you use even with your "iframe" wormhole...

    It's a bit of a pity that "get gud" is pretty damn complicated. In my post I acknowledge that... well, that's the character.
    She's garbage, she has limited damage, limited tools, yaddayadda. She's a hard character to pick up and harder to master, so the only way of winning with Sylvi is by "getting gud" period. It's a tough road ahead and - in our current patch - it doesn't get much better.

    I affirm that yes, that is true. But I also try giving some pointers rather than just wallowing in the misery that is being a Sylvi main - after all there isn't much else that can be done.

    Even with bad gear though, the poke/chip game (and potentially the timer game) is still crucial to Sylvi's gameplay. I myself played with only +11 gear for a very long time and have only recently managed to hit +13. In fact, this is my TCP:

    Gear is something that I don't have much of, but its still possible to do reasonably well.

    Honestly in regards to gearing it goes both ways. A Yuri without any gear is only going to tickle you, as will a J, or a Tein, or a Harpy, or anything for that matter. So if the enemy gets "bad tuning" and bad gear, their damage won't be that good either. It's just sad that at the moment Sylvi's damage is not particularly stellar regardless of gear (good or bad). This changes with the future though, as I showed in my big post.

    It's just that it'll be a long road to get there. But there's light at the end of the tunnel!

    P.S: Wormhole is an "iframe" only in PvE, not in PvP. It is only an 80% dr there.

  • @LinoCrelier said:
    knowledge is power
    seulbi is love

    this is why you guys are seha mains :angry:

    I read all and I main Seha QwQ ...

  • @LinoCrelier said:
    knowledge is power
    seulbi is love

    this is why you guys are seha mains :angry:

    Couldnt agree more =)

  • @HieiBlaze said:
    I read all and I main Seha QwQ ...

    some seha mains have been blessed and seen the light
    count yourself among them my friend

  • nyxonnyxon Member

    @LinoCrelier said:

    @nyxon said:
    "get gud" wont be enough cause your damage is lighter than aerogel and they can pretty much grab you with any skill you use even with your "iframe" wormhole...

    It's a bit of a pity that "get gud" is pretty damn complicated. In my post I acknowledge that... well, that's the character.
    She's garbage, she has limited damage, limited tools, yaddayadda. She's a hard character to pick up and harder to master, so the only way of winning with Sylvi is by "getting gud" period. It's a tough road ahead and - in our current patch - it doesn't get much better.

    exactly......esp since pvp is swarming with Seha and some of them with lag......that'll just teleport in front of you and whisper "nothing personal kid"....lmao

  • @Nathaniel697 said:
    Lini, do you have knowledges for other characters? I would like to see your guides for Yuri, Harpy and Tina

    I feel I'm pretty knowledgeable about characters; knowing cooldowns, assuming general gameplans, etcetc.

    But really I'm a Sylvi main. I could go on and on as to every little detail - the most minuscule of actions - that, say, a Yuri could do to win on the Sylvi matchup. But when it comes to how a Yuri would deal with Tein in specific, or how she would fight the Nata matchup are things I can only speak from theory and not practice (or at the very least not 5k matches worth of experience).

    I definitely know some good players though, so I can comment on things and consult them on others. Or you can hit them up yourself: Timebreaker1 here on the forums is a really good Yuri/Harpy player and Adorable himself is an amazing Tina (even if I did argue on his Sylvi comment)!

    Honestly I don't feel as confident writing about Yuri, Harpy or Tina in specific matchups, but if there's any questions you got I can theorise and consult my way through them.

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited June 2018

    Actually @Nathaniel697 , what I wrote isn't even a guide but more of an... address? An addressing of the issues presented by doggod and how I try to circumvent them. Heck, if I were to write a guide on Sylvi I'm not even sure how I would start! I once began writing Matchup Guides for all the characters with Sylvi but burnt myself out after each character was its a 5,000 word essay on its own: and that's all assuming a solid foundational knowledge of character mechanics!

    What I feel I can do well are responses. I believe I have sufficient knowledge of game mechanics to do that much at least.

    I can't write a Yuri guide, but if you ask me "how does x interact with y", I will probably tell you: "z." For example, I was watching Solbane fight GrayShades earlier today and noticed how FM2 was being troublesome for Solbane to deal with. I thought to myself:

    "Can a Yuri not use up ver grounded Spin Kick Rapid Shot when a Nata walks into her with FM2, hold its full duration then avoid out with a guaranteed perfect space cancelled into Sonic/Lunging due to its multihits?" I might be wrong, but I'm relatively certain this is an avenue - and with a little testing on my end - I could up that certainty to 100%.

    Or when I watch a Harpy blow her FM2 pro-actively in offence without it being used as a re-catch tool and only as an opener engage, I think to myself "this Harpy will probably get screwed when FM3/1s come back up."

    So I suppose I don't really write guides per see, but I can give reactionary comments on scenarios that derive from understanding how mechanics interact. I definitely can't write a full matchup guide however, now that is beyond my hands.

  • We all know that this won't change anything

  • Oh right, regarding Bits generation and upkeep:

    If the Sylvi is at 20 Bits and uses Blades of Discipline to keep refreshing/generating Bits, since you cannot generate any more Bits this means that nothing changes. The decay is still ticking on old Bits and they are not replaced by the new ones from BoD since there is no more space to generate them. This means that its often more dangerous to be capped on Bits than not, since you then cannot keep generating new "fresher" Bits all the while the timer on old Bits is still ticking.

    And remember all of this will only get worse with Special Agent!

  • yOhfLyyOhfLy Member

    yuri is the worst in pvp second is sylvi and the most op chars in pvp are seha/nata/j/tina

This discussion has been closed.