Enmasse game closing policy?

I'm a little late about news from enmasse... but I just notice they are closing the AVA (their shooter), so I was wondering what is their policy to closing the games, what makes them close the games (I mean I know it's about no revenue or little revenue), Is it highly possible that they will soon close other games (like closers, since I'm most interested in that one). It would be sad to see this game closed tbh.

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Comments

  • ZMR and AVA didint have much players thus far the revenue was not worth it to keep support the service closers is fine and will be fine for some time

  • @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

  • HadasyHadasy Member

    I present to you, me.
    Seriously though, there are quite a few people spending quite a significant amount of money on Closers. We can't see the actual revenue, but observation would suggest it is pretty good.

  • MuonMuon Member
    edited June 2018

    The amount of people spending in the game I think. I doubt it will slow down anytime soon. Cybernetics, the angel thing rare costume and other highly sought out sexy attires. This game I think is similar to GC and Elsword, I played both for a very long time and I know this team very well, they know how to make a long lasting game.

  • @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

    ZMR and AVA are shooters there wont be people go crazy about guns then an Anime character in the Anime culture we live right now. + Closers has still a lot to offer while Shooters get repetitive really fast.

  • @Natorious said:

    @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

    Closers has still a lot to offer while Shooters get repetitive really fast.

    That's kinda subjective imo. Different people will find different games more replayable. I've played Team Fortress 2 for over 3500 hours and Overwatch for over 650. I can easily see people getting tired of Closers as it's all the same thing the whole way through as well.

  • @Natorious said:

    @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

    ZMR and AVA are shooters there wont be people go crazy about guns then an Anime character in the Anime culture we live right now. + Closers has still a lot to offer while Shooters get repetitive really fast.

    I mean csgo doesn't have anime tits or lolis and all every one does in that game is shoot. Yet it has tournaments every now and then, with decently large prize pools.

    Fortnite is currently the most streamed game with some streamers raking in an average of over 100k viewers. Epic recently announced a 100m prize pool for 2017-2018 season.

    Dota 2 has its compendium which usually manages to 'crowdfund' a minimum 20 million dollar prize pool before The International. That's at least 60 million dollars going in the way of the developers.

    You see, these are signs of the game doing well. I don't see such signs coming from this game. I don't doubt the power of whales, they make a REALLY really huge impact on the game but the way I see it, there are no big, obvious signs of this game doing really well to a point where it won't close off in the next few years perhaps.

  • @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:

    @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

    ZMR and AVA are shooters there wont be people go crazy about guns then an Anime character in the Anime culture we live right now. + Closers has still a lot to offer while Shooters get repetitive really fast.

    I mean csgo doesn't have anime tits or lolis and all every one does in that game is shoot. Yet it has tournaments every now and then, with decently large prize pools.

    Fortnite is currently the most streamed game with some streamers raking in an average of over 100k viewers. Epic recently announced a 100m prize pool for 2017-2018 season.

    Dota 2 has its compendium which usually manages to 'crowdfund' a minimum 20 million dollar prize pool before The International. That's at least 60 million dollars going in the way of the developers.

    You see, these are signs of the game doing well. I don't see such signs coming from this game. I don't doubt the power of whales, they make a REALLY really huge impact on the game but the way I see it, there are no big, obvious signs of this game doing really well to a point where it won't close off in the next few years perhaps.

    ZMR and A.V.A cant even be compared to CS:GO or Overwatch or neither Fortnite both of these games were not new and . Neither of those two were never a big Esport, thing ZMR at its end had very few players, Now A.V.A is going down since its population is also low it was plagued with Hackers and the game got repetitive and patches were very plain.

    Compared to Closers these two provided really little revenue that ENM made the decision to called it quits. As long as the game has content to deliver and people spending then Closers if fine once you hit a dry point it can happen that it will close down but not within few months closers has still a lot of content to offer that will provide revenue

  • @SuspiciousScout said:

    @Natorious said:

    @SandersLMAO said:

    @Natorious said:
    closers is fine and will be fine for some time

    do you have proof of this tho or is this just your observation? curious

    Closers has still a lot to offer while Shooters get repetitive really fast.

    That's kinda subjective imo. Different people will find different games more replayable. I've played Team Fortress 2 for over 3500 hours and Overwatch for over 650. I can easily see people getting tired of Closers as it's all the same thing the whole way through as well.

    I worded it bad not all shooters are repetitive as long as you are provided with fresh new something to do i personally have 1200+ hrs in R6S, 500+ Overwatch. But A.V.A and ZMR weren't that popular in the west thus far the lack of something to do in game.

  • Game's not even a year old and people are worrying about it closing. All I know is that a ton of games I've played over the years have stayed up (Vindictus/Mabinogi/Spiral Knights), while some games randomly got axed (HeroWarz), and some games were brought back to life (DFO/Dragon Nest). Even games like ArcheAge that nearly seemed dead on arrival are still up.

    Ya'll people comparing Closers to things like PUBG/R6/LoL/DoTA/Overwatch and being skeptical about its survival are looking at the wrong things. Hell, I wouldn't even go comparing Closers to MMO titans like WoW/GW2/Warframe/BDO. They're simply different games with their own markets.

    The way I've seen EnMasse handling Closers right now I'm more than certain it'll last for years to come, unless KR itself decides to stop updating it. You'd be amazed at how resilient a dedicated whale pod playerbase can be for an MMO

  • @Draciusen you also forget to add maple story that game has been out for a long time.

  • If it makes you feel any better it's more likely to Kritika to shut down than Closers and, sadly, it's not because Kritika came out first but because of the playerbase status plus revenue.
    Closers has always been a niche game with a dedicated fanbase, if you want it to keep living just support the game by doing your part and that's playing the game (Leave money issues to whales)

  • I only have one thing to say: If Maplestory Global is still open after more than 10 years with such playerbase, Elsword Int is still raking in money with only beautiful cosmetics, then Closers will be here for years to come

  • @FireZero said:
    @Draciusen you also forget to add maple story that game has been out for a long time.

    You don't know the definition of whales when it comes to maplestory. Maplestory is a long running game because of their 1% that is single handedly keeping nexon NA stay afloat as a profitable region (significantly minor % but still profit)

  • HotDoTL33THotDoTL33T Member
    edited June 2018

    @ the OP: Coming from an AVA veteran, I honestly thought the same about whether Closers will close down as well and whether I should even spend time playing this game. I think better mmo's will come out, but seeing as how AVA lasted for at least 9-10 years, Closers should be up around the same time or even longer in my assumption and plus it's been published by Nexon so it should probably have a decent future.

    Also @Natorious Please don't compare a MMORPG to a FPS, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

  • @HotDoTL33T said:
    @ the OP: Coming from an AVA veteran, I honestly thought the same about whether Closers will close down as well and whether I should even spend time playing this game. I think better mmo's will come out, but seeing as how AVA lasted for at least 9-10 years, Closers should be up around the same time or even longer in my assumption and plus it's been published by Nexon so it should probably have a decent future.

    Also @Natorious Please don't compare a MMORPG to a FPS, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

    Umm it isn't published by nexon xD

  • @mistressj said:

    @HotDoTL33T said:
    @ the OP: Coming from an AVA veteran, I honestly thought the same about whether Closers will close down as well and whether I should even spend time playing this game. I think better mmo's will come out, but seeing as how AVA lasted for at least 9-10 years, Closers should be up around the same time or even longer in my assumption and plus it's been published by Nexon so it should probably have a decent future.

    Also @Natorious Please don't compare a MMORPG to a FPS, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

    Umm it isn't published by nexon xD

    I'm pretty sure he means Nexon KR, which I'm pretty sure is one of the biggest names in the gaming industry over there and not at all like Nexon NA.

  • @Draciusen said:

    @mistressj said:

    @HotDoTL33T said:
    @ the OP: Coming from an AVA veteran, I honestly thought the same about whether Closers will close down as well and whether I should even spend time playing this game. I think better mmo's will come out, but seeing as how AVA lasted for at least 9-10 years, Closers should be up around the same time or even longer in my assumption and plus it's been published by Nexon so it should probably have a decent future.

    Also @Natorious Please don't compare a MMORPG to a FPS, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

    Umm it isn't published by nexon xD

    I'm pretty sure he means Nexon KR, which I'm pretty sure is one of the biggest names in the gaming industry over there and not at all like Nexon NA.

    So he does and is true.. NVM I rescind my.last statement.
    And is it actually better than Nexon NA? Hope so.

  • Nexon will stay nexon, as wise people say.

  • @GLAL63X7LR said:

    @FireZero said:
    @Draciusen you also forget to add maple story that game has been out for a long time.

    You don't know the definition of whales when it comes to maplestory. Maplestory is a long running game because of their 1% that is single handedly keeping nexon NA stay afloat as a profitable region (significantly minor % but still profit)

    You're right about that. Whales there are nothing like the ones here. I should know, I was a whale, bordering on addict lol. I spent roughly $9,000 (this was over the course of several years, not all at once), on maple before I finally called it quits and I was barely in the top 30 in my server. I don't spend nearly as much on Closers.

    This game is nowhere near dying and I'm not sure why people are comparing Closers to ESports. That's a different animal all together.

  • @Katrian said:
    I'll start by saying that I am not part of the decision-making process for closing games here at Enmasse, but as far as I know we mainly only close games (or at least stop supporting them here) when the developer decides that it is time. This generally only happens when a game has died out and doesn't have a strong playerbase or following anymore. I'm commenting on this because I know that as a player it can be stressful not knowing whether or not a game you really like is going to get the axe.

    As for Closers, it is thriving and there haven't been any conversations about closing it down in the foreseeable future. It has continually done well and has a strong community backing so don't worry about it following in the footsteps of Ava or ZMR.

    That's really reassuring when someone from staff posts something like this. Thank you, I really appreciate this ^_^!

  • @AoiRyuu said:

    @Katrian said:
    I'll start by saying that I am not part of the decision-making process for closing games here at Enmasse, but as far as I know we mainly only close games (or at least stop supporting them here) when the developer decides that it is time. This generally only happens when a game has died out and doesn't have a strong playerbase or following anymore. I'm commenting on this because I know that as a player it can be stressful not knowing whether or not a game you really like is going to get the axe.

    As for Closers, it is thriving and there haven't been any conversations about closing it down in the foreseeable future. It has continually done well and has a strong community backing so don't worry about it following in the footsteps of Ava or ZMR.

    That's really reassuring when someone from staff posts something like this. Thank you, I really appreciate this ^_^!

    Ikr? Good shit. Good people here.

  • @Draciusen said:
    Game's not even a year old and people are worrying about it closing. All I know is that a ton of games I've played over the years have stayed up (Vindictus/Mabinogi/Spiral Knights), while some games randomly got axed (HeroWarz), and some games were brought back to life (DFO/Dragon Nest). Even games like ArcheAge that nearly seemed dead on arrival are still up.

    Ya'll people comparing Closers to things like PUBG/R6/LoL/DoTA/Overwatch and being skeptical about its survival are looking at the wrong things. Hell, I wouldn't even go comparing Closers to MMO titans like WoW/GW2/Warframe/BDO. They're simply different games with their own markets.

    The way I've seen EnMasse handling Closers right now I'm more than certain it'll last for years to come, unless KR itself decides to stop updating it. You'd be amazed at how resilient a dedicated whale pod playerbase can be for an MMO

    Okay, so what are the things I should be looking at for MMOs? I don't have a great understanding of how things work apparently, maybe you could point out to me the signs of an MMO like Closers doing well?

    I think I want to share my POV too. What I see are closed servers (NA SERVER 17 and above gone poof), free 100 emp not being claimed by at least 10000 people 12 hours into its release, not every TCP character ranking being dominated by TCP rankings of 1,000,000 and above (only seen this happen on Yuri and Tina, which is quite understandable) > @Katrian said:

    I'll start by saying that I am not part of the decision-making process for closing games here at Enmasse, but as far as I know we mainly only close games (or at least stop supporting them here) when the developer decides that it is time. This generally only happens when a game has died out and doesn't have a strong playerbase or following anymore. I'm commenting on this because I know that as a player it can be stressful not knowing whether or not a game you really like is going to get the axe.

    As for Closers, it is thriving and there haven't been any conversations about closing it down in the foreseeable future. It has continually done well and has a strong community backing so don't worry about it following in the footsteps of Ava or ZMR.

    Precisely the kind of reply that the community needs, instead of just speculation and anecdotes from random players.

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited June 2018

    @SandersLMAO said:

    I think I want to share my POV too. What I see are closed servers (NA SERVER 17 and above gone poof), free 100 emp not being claimed by at least 10000 people 12 hours into its release,

    Yeah, this actually surprised me, considering only the first 10000 people are able to get the free 100emp and I logged in my cousin's acc and got it on the last 10 minutes was surprising... but then again most of my guild never checks the items link so that could also be a reason. In fact I became a post messager on discord for the freebies on that link because my guildies couldn't be as*ed to do it.

  • @SandersLMAO said:

    @Draciusen said:
    Game's not even a year old and people are worrying about it closing. All I know is that a ton of games I've played over the years have stayed up (Vindictus/Mabinogi/Spiral Knights), while some games randomly got axed (HeroWarz), and some games were brought back to life (DFO/Dragon Nest). Even games like ArcheAge that nearly seemed dead on arrival are still up.

    Ya'll people comparing Closers to things like PUBG/R6/LoL/DoTA/Overwatch and being skeptical about its survival are looking at the wrong things. Hell, I wouldn't even go comparing Closers to MMO titans like WoW/GW2/Warframe/BDO. They're simply different games with their own markets.

    The way I've seen EnMasse handling Closers right now I'm more than certain it'll last for years to come, unless KR itself decides to stop updating it. You'd be amazed at how resilient a dedicated whale pod playerbase can be for an MMO

    Okay, so what are the things I should be looking at for MMOs? I don't have a great understanding of how things work apparently, maybe you could point out to me the signs of an MMO like Closers doing well?

    I think I want to share my POV too. What I see are closed servers (NA SERVER 17 and above gone poof), free 100 emp not being claimed by at least 10000 people 12 hours into its release, not every TCP character ranking being dominated by TCP rankings of 1,000,000 and above (only seen this happen on Yuri and Tina, which is quite understandable)

    Failing/unhealthy MMO signs to watch out for

    • Complete lack of interaction/care on developer/publisher's part. No updates, ETAs, responses to community, anything that indicates that the game is more than just a dusty server in a room somewhere. Closers is obviously more than okay in this department.
    • Server closing/shutdowns. Probably the most obvious yet misleading symptom, as all it confirms is that the game is downsizing or just didn't cut it in a particular region. I'm talking discontinuation of service by the way, not your definition of closing channels in Closers - which is an obvious cost-effective measure since the game never warranted that many channels to begin with. Kritika SEA shutdown, Mabinogi EU shutdown, Vindictus JP shutdown are all worrying signs, but these games are still up here (albeit with a medium-low population). For a worst case scenario, the sudden shutdown of HeroWarz NA was shortly followed by HeroWarz KR shutdown, but I'm pretty sure KOG being crap played a huge role (see sign 1). Examples of server merges meaning absolutely nothing with regards to a game in danger of closing - MapleStory, Blade & Soul, EverQuest 2.
    • Disconnect between developers and players isn't exactly a sign of a dying MMO, however it's a sign that the developers don't understand/care about the game and its players and may make decisions that cause players to leave in droves, which critically harms the reputation of the game and can prevent it from ever recovering in some cases. Back-to-back P2W events/sales with insane pricing, atrocious character balancing, refusing to acknowledge bugs/exploits/hacks, etc. Again, these don't kill a game outright, but tend to send it into a decline that can take forever to recover from even if they clean up their act.

    Your concerns for Closers are hard to justify as signs of the game not doing well, and ultimately have no impact on the game in the long run. While you may have some obvious disdain for random players commenting on the state of a game through anecdotes (especially in this age where you have toxic fanboys who are oblivious to everything - looking at you LawBreakers) , you don't need to be a chef to know how good food tastes.

    I already mentioned closed channels being an incredibly weak sign of a game dying, and is actually a normal thing to occur following the release of a game - better to have too many channels at first than not enough, then remove as necessary.

    Free 100 EMP being unclaimed instantly is irrelevant. It was never advertised AFAIK, and even the most hardcore players will be lazy when checking the Daily Deals since losing out on 5 resurrection capsules or Sticky Residue isn't a big deal. I literally only caught that deal an hour before I decided to sleep because I wasn't intending on playing Closers that day. If you remember, the first free yukata code deal that they put out ran out within hours, and they had to restock.

    Lack of 1m TCP players in the rankings. The whales not whaling hard enough is a sign that the game is definitely going to die? You forget the fact that we're on a fast release schedule to catch up to KR that is also loosely outlined in the roadmap; and trying to go for BiS on every single content patch is beyond inefficient and wasteful even for whales, especially when they know how fast things are coming. Blade & Soul literally went through the same exact process, the whales didn't kick in until the game started to catch up to KR because they already knew which upgrades were necessary to splurge on and won't get powercreeped right away.

  • Welp. I'm not that experienced with MMO in particular but even I have to admit that #Draciusen makes a hell of a good point.

  • Games like this don't need thousands of people on at a time, just like fighting games can have good matchmaking with only a few hundred people online. One of the advantages to instanced MMOs is that the game can still thrive with a fraction of what would be required for an open world MMO. The power rankings feature is mostly irrelevant since no sane player is going to drop a bunch of money on gear that's going to be obsolete in two weeks. I agree that the black market is a bit barren and frequently devoid of sought after cash items (slot mods, costume pieces, etc.), but EME can't control if people are willing to spend money on the game or if they want to keep it for themselves. Perhaps the cash shop prices could be adjusted or more cash sales/events could be done to make the BM more lively, but other than that the game is healthy.

  • As long as they don't pull a herowarz I'm fine with it.

  • edited June 2018

    @PrincessChen said:
    As long as they don't pull a herowarz I'm fine with it.

    KOG Games (Elsword NA) tried to host Herowarz, but they imediatly shut down the game 8 months later.

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