Removal of Fatigue on July 3 and Violet Release???

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Comments

  • MuonMuon Member
    edited June 2018

    @Volt8ge said:
    Forum policy says no swearing or harsh words. And idiot is a modern term of someone who is unknowledgeable or have low understanding on certain topics. Go back to school child.

    Thats unique meaning for an idiot, I actually learn something new today thanks to you. Basically you wanted to diminish the word "idiot" as something not offensive and can be use for something you cant agree with or something you cant make the other person nod to your claim.

  • I'm not siding with Muon here, I still say the ftg removal is a bad thing but name calling is a sort of harassment dude.

    just like that specific "B" word that literally means a female dog but is used as a swear word.

  • no ftg system what is so bad about that?we can even make multiple chars to farm more item and credits thats no difference. you only thinking negative things you dont care for new players to catch up fast and some players just want to play their fav char.

  • MuonMuon Member

    I find it funny and cute at the same time, I dont feel harass or something. I think it is better to take his meaning seriously. Ok, I decided, for his sake Im actually bandwagoning to this botting religion right now. All it has to make me changed my mind is for this "idiot" that completely changed my perspective, Im fully convinced now.

  • It's finally fully confirmed Muon is a troll that should have been obvious since the beginning with his post above.

  • this forum getting lively because of me love it <3
    i am famous now heheheh.

  • All of yall are dumb end game is Afk anyways.

  • ZeonslitZeonslit Member
    edited June 2018

    @Draciusen said:

    Also keep in mind Closers is NOT a mechanically difficult game outside of the endgame raids; botting programs will be relatively easy to create/maintain compared to Vindictus (combat system and complex boss AI requires actual hacks to effectively farm); and they still managed to nuke the economy there. When it's that easy to bot, there's little you can do to stop it from happening unless there's a hard fatigue limit in place.

    The biggest hindrance to gold-farming is maintenance/automation. A fatigue system makes it extremely annoying to farm gold without micromanaging a ton of different accounts and characters at a time; which pretty much means you'll mainly get Chinese gold farmers doing it; who are rather manageable in small numbers. Without fatigue, the sky's the limit, now you've opened the door for a bunch of incredibly lazy yet talented programmers to farm. Now each one of those micromanaging Chinese gold farmers can maintain hundreds of bots. You can farm endlessly, with basically zero interaction at all unless they want to make a pit stop to Planar Gate to upgrade gear for free and further increase their gold farming efficiency.

    Time is nothing to these people. Investment is practically nothing especially if they regularly farm gold on other games. You see how cryptocurrency took off, despite how expensive GPUs and rigs and electricity are?

    tl;dr-

    Gold farming is very real and very serious issue for a game's economy. If EnMasse wants to remove stamina, they're going to have to put more than twice the effort the gold farmers are willing to put into farming if they want to combat it. And they have to do so before it even becomes an issue.

    Pretty much this.
    Also, someone mentioned Vindictus. I also want to add some info from another game perspective - Dragon Nest.
    Dragon Nest battle system is complex and dungeons are hard, simply because there's a lot of puzzles in each dungeon, that can't be solved by bots. However, even in Dragon Nest people manage to create bots and successfully farm gold and sell it.
    It's super easy to create a bot(or script) for Closers, considering linear dungeons and zero puzzles. For example, setting a newbie Malek on infinity farm for a month shouldn't be a problem. After awhile, those macroses and bot programms will spread not only among goldsellers, but players too.

    Unless you(EME) have a plan, this will severely ruin economy&market.

  • I don't understand why people think removing the fatigue system will cause problems. I hope you all understand fatigue systems DO NOT prevent botting. People who operate gold botters can simply make multiple accounts and characters to bypass the fatigue limit.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @Mahouroa said:
    I don't understand why people think removing the fatigue system will cause problems. I hope you all understand fatigue systems DO NOT prevent botting. People who operate gold botters can simply make multiple accounts and characters to bypass the fatigue limit.

    It doesn't prevent it. It makes it more difficult for them.to be able to do it to the point the game will end up dying because of all the points people have made here

  • to quote myself...

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    the problem of removing the ftg system isn't the credits... It's the Botters, which if you played lots of different MMO will tell you that they exist... even right now in closers there are botters that clutter the channels

    1. If these botters farm credits non stop for their websites, people will just use money for the credits marking that as a profitable loss on the game devs side,
    2. the credits they bought will then be used to buy ( i feel like i typed this already but whatever ) inflated prices from the market ( because credits will be easy to gain just by people buying them online ) making the prices even more inflated.
    3. the normal people who don't login quite often due to rl reasons won't even be able to buy anything from an inflated market and will slowly lose motivation until it hits rock bottom and inevitably leave the game
    4. game loses players and will soon consist of mostly nothing but bots
    5. a game can't survive without any paying customers, Free To Play doesn't necessarily mean Free To Run it's a business... it still needs money to make sure the game is up and running,
    6. Lastly, if the player base goes down, the game loses funds to run the game making sure that it will die 100%.
  • many players already quit this game because of the ftg system.
    if you really love this game you wont leave it easly and i think eme will always get us hype on this game.
    the only thing players quitting the game because they got bored by it.

  • @Mahouroa said:
    I don't understand why people think removing the fatigue system will cause problems. I hope you all understand fatigue systems DO NOT prevent botting. People who operate gold botters can simply make multiple accounts and characters to bypass the fatigue limit.

    You are a botter. The last thing you want to do is to actually play/touch the game. Let's try to simulate a botting experience with the current fatigue system:

    1. You have a character all ready to go with 1200 fatigue (technically 1190 but let's round)
    2. You start the bot on a map, let's say it runs it in 3 minutes (extremely slow, being generous here).
    3. You can run that bot for a total of 6 hours before it is capped out for entire week. FYI, this is absolutely nothing at all; you can't even consider that an overnight thing.
    4. Now you have to log out of that character, and start the bot again, on another character.
    5. Oops ran into account fatigue
    6. Now you gotta switch to a new account, you better hope that account has all slots filled and all characters with cap fatigue
    7. Do you see the sheer annoyance of trying to bot in this game, for a few mill a week? With all that micro-management?

    Now let us simulate a botting experience with absolutely zero fatigue:

    1. You have a single character, could be freshly made or be weeks old, it doesn't matter
    2. You start the bot on a map, let's say it runs in 10 minutes because it doesn't matter
    3. You check the gold every few days/weeks, see if the program is still running, that's it
    4. You get banned
    5. You create a new account, make a character and let it bot for awhile to get levels
    6. Repeat

    Now that's the most basic botting system you can have with one dude turning on a program. Hardcore gold farmers will have an entire infrastructure dedicated to managing hundreds of bots, creating new accounts, leveling other characters. If they're bored enough they'll spend all the free time they have trying to develop hacks for the game so the bots farm even quicker; and selling those programs so other people can bot as well.

    This isn't an imaginary slippery slope doomsday scenario. It's real. It happens. No fatigue is literally an instant gateway to this scenario. The "gold sellers" using megaphones are proof enough this game is already in their radar; if fatigue is removed you can bet they'll be swarming all over this game faster than Seha players can disconnect themselves.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Draciusen said: You are a botter.

    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

  • But botting does exist...

  • MuonMuon Member

    Thats why any heretic that goes against this religion are automatically, idiots, trolls, botters.

  • Religion?

  • well, I feel I've said my two cents on this. We'll just have to see what happens when the date comes... as for me, I'll be leveling up my Seha.

  • @Muon said:
    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    But botting does exist...

    No no friends, this is a hypothetical situation assuming a bot/botter does exist. For all we know bots in the current game are in a constant superposition state of existence and non-existence; which changes based on observation or thought.

    The bots themselves have mastered quantum computing, which allows them to exist in such a state. Bots are therefore destroying the economy while doing absolutely nothing to it.

    However, once the fatigue system is removed, the bots are able to escape the quantum realm of superpositions and states, and have a more concrete, observable condition in the real [virtual] world. With this, their effects upon the game will become more pronounced and easily quantified; thus producing the scenario which we all fear.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Draciusen said:

    @Muon said:
    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    But botting does exist...

    No no friends, this is a hypothetical situation assuming a bot/botter does exist. For all we know bots in the current game are in a constant superposition state of existence and non-existence; which changes based on observation or thought.

    The bots themselves have mastered quantum computing, which allows them to exist in such a state. Bots are therefore destroying the economy while doing absolutely nothing to it.

    However, once the fatigue system is removed, the bots are able to escape the quantum realm of superpositions and states, and have a more concrete, observable condition in the real [virtual] world. With this, their effects upon the game will become more pronounced and easily quantified; thus producing the scenario which we all fear.

    Thats pretty smart. Lets say they exist, that would mean we are botters then, idiots and trolls at the same time?

  • @Draciusen said: :|

    @Muon said:
    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    But botting does exist...

    No no friends, this is a hypothetical situation assuming a bot/botter does exist. For all we know bots in the current game are in a constant superposition state of existence and non-existence; which changes based on observation or thought.

    The bots themselves have mastered quantum computing, which allows them to exist in such a state. Bots are therefore destroying the economy while doing absolutely nothing to it.

    However, once the fatigue system is removed, the bots are able to escape the quantum realm of superpositions and states, and have a more concrete, observable condition in the real [virtual] world. With this, their effects upon the game will become more pronounced and easily quantified; thus producing the scenario which we all fear.

    Well first of, sorry for calling you an idiot. I'm protective of my favorite games.

    Second of, this post just made it clear you're also a troll. So no suprise there then. Cheers :|

  • @Draciusen said:

    @Muon said:
    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    But botting does exist...

    No no friends, this is a hypothetical situation assuming a bot/botter does exist. For all we know bots in the current game are in a constant superposition state of existence and non-existence; which changes based on observation or thought.

    The bots themselves have mastered quantum computing, which allows them to exist in such a state. Bots are therefore destroying the economy while doing absolutely nothing to it.

    However, once the fatigue system is removed, the bots are able to escape the quantum realm of superpositions and states, and have a more concrete, observable condition in the real [virtual] world. With this, their effects upon the game will become more pronounced and easily quantified; thus producing the scenario which we all fear.

    Bots of Shredinger?

  • Dude.. Enough with the trolling

  • @mistressj said:

    @Mahouroa said:
    I don't understand why people think removing the fatigue system will cause problems. I hope you all understand fatigue systems DO NOT prevent botting. People who operate gold botters can simply make multiple accounts and characters to bypass the fatigue limit.

    It doesn't prevent it. It makes it more difficult for them.to be able to do it to the point the game will end up dying because of all the points people have made here

    It's not really difficult for them. > @Draciusen said:

    @Mahouroa said:
    I don't understand why people think removing the fatigue system will cause problems. I hope you all understand fatigue systems DO NOT prevent botting. People who operate gold botters can simply make multiple accounts and characters to bypass the fatigue limit.

    You are a botter. The last thing you want to do is to actually play/touch the game. Let's try to simulate a botting experience with the current fatigue system:

    1. You have a character all ready to go with 1200 fatigue (technically 1190 but let's round)
    2. You start the bot on a map, let's say it runs it in 3 minutes (extremely slow, being generous here).
    3. You can run that bot for a total of 6 hours before it is capped out for entire week. FYI, this is absolutely nothing at all; you can't even consider that an overnight thing.
    4. Now you have to log out of that character, and start the bot again, on another character.
    5. Oops ran into account fatigue
    6. Now you gotta switch to a new account, you better hope that account has all slots filled and all characters with cap fatigue
    7. Do you see the sheer annoyance of trying to bot in this game, for a few mill a week? With all that micro-management?

    Now let us simulate a botting experience with absolutely zero fatigue:

    1. You have a single character, could be freshly made or be weeks old, it doesn't matter
    2. You start the bot on a map, let's say it runs in 10 minutes because it doesn't matter
    3. You check the gold every few days/weeks, see if the program is still running, that's it
    4. You get banned
    5. You create a new account, make a character and let it bot for awhile to get levels
    6. Repeat

    Now that's the most basic botting system you can have with one dude turning on a program. Hardcore gold farmers will have an entire infrastructure dedicated to managing hundreds of bots, creating new accounts, leveling other characters. If they're bored enough they'll spend all the free time they have trying to develop hacks for the game so the bots farm even quicker; and selling those programs so other people can bot as well.

    This isn't an imaginary slippery slope doomsday scenario. It's real. It happens. No fatigue is literally an instant gateway to this scenario. The "gold sellers" using megaphones are proof enough this game is already in their radar; if fatigue is removed you can bet they'll be swarming all over this game faster than Seha players can disconnect themselves.

    I don't think you understand how gold farming works. When I refer to gold farmers, I'm not referencing the average player like you or I trying to make extra gold by using a bot program. I'm talking about Chinese gold sellers who are making a living by selling their gold on website. It doesn't matter how many "annoying" extra steps it takes to farm gold; it will occur regardless, because that is their job. You're overselling the fatigue system by a large margin. If fatigue systems were such a deterrence to gold botting, why isn't it present in many current MMOs? By your logic, every MMO that doesn't have a fatigue system is at a huge risk of being infested with bots because there isn't a system to limit their play time. Truth is, fatigue is a useless, outdated system that was created so Koreans wouldn't kill themselves playing video games. Gold botters are completely unaffected by it, which is exactly why we have botters in the game right now.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Draciusen said: :|

    @Muon said:
    Basically anyone you cant convinced that botting in this game exist.

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    But botting does exist...

    No no friends, this is a hypothetical situation assuming a bot/botter does exist. For all we know bots in the current game are in a constant superposition state of existence and non-existence; which changes based on observation or thought.

    The bots themselves have mastered quantum computing, which allows them to exist in such a state. Bots are therefore destroying the economy while doing absolutely nothing to it.

    However, once the fatigue system is removed, the bots are able to escape the quantum realm of superpositions and states, and have a more concrete, observable condition in the real [virtual] world. With this, their effects upon the game will become more pronounced and easily quantified; thus producing the scenario which we all fear.

    Well first of, sorry for calling you an idiot. I'm protective of my favorite games.

    Second of, this post just made it clear you're also a troll. So no suprise there then. Cheers :|

    I never take offense. Im actually curious right now why does there is a correlation between religion and botting believers. Both are pretty aggressive to what they believe, branded anyone as heretics. Now we have shrodingus bot argument which seems want to evade like a squid from prosecution.

    My comment banished. So here it is again in state of superposition.

  • @Volt8ge said:
    Dude.. Enough with the trolling

    Are you talking to me? If yes, then i must say thar I don't trolling.

  • @Nathaniel697 said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    Dude.. Enough with the trolling

    Are you talking to me? If yes, then i must say thar I don't trolling.

    No it's not you :D

  • @Pokechu said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    Well first of, sorry for calling you an idiot. I'm protective of my favorite games.
    Second of, this post just made it clear you're also a troll. So no suprise there then. Cheers :|


    404 Sarcasm not detected.

    I'm not even going to try to talk sense into these guys.

    Instead, I'll just put them on my ignore list,

    leave this here,
    and move on with my life,
    lest I succumb to spewing profanities thanks to this abundant display of idiocy.
    Shit

    He swore!! :o

  • @Pokechu said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    He swore!! :o

    Did not!

    Did to!

  • FoSizzleFoSizzle Member
    edited June 2018

    @Pokechu said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Pokechu said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    He swore!! :o

    Did not!

    Did to!

    No, you can't prove anything! Therefore it never happened!

    Plot Twist: Pokechu doesn't exist


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