Removal of Fatigue on July 3 and Violet Release???

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  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited June 2018

    Alright, I'll wait with a sliver of hope regarding this issue... Because I for one have played lots of games that went the same route and either died or lived quite fine before their inevitable demise of game life expectancy.

    Hope for good news from you lovely folks in the near few days. This update will either make or break the game.

  • @ArunoSesugawa said:
    Alright, I'll wait with a sliver of hope regarding this issue... Because I for one have played lots of games that went the same route and either died or lived quite fine before their inevitable demise of game life expectancy.

    Hope for good news from you lovely folks in the near few days. This update will either make or break the game.

    Ikr... this is a game I don't wanna see die.. I love it.

  • SleepyMariboSleepyMaribo Member
    edited June 2018

    Hey as long as you make sure to account for player damage in dungeons... Nexon dfo did a terrible job with that.

    Ever get banned from a game because you did to much damage to a boss?

    In Dfo Nexon didnt take into account that players could gear themselves to the point of doing insane damage numbers in fast bursts. Because of this, their auto ban system would ban players when they one shotted a boss. or Insta cleared a room with a huge attack. Theres a lot of things that could and can go wrong when it cmoes to trying to deal with bots... the golden rule however is, no matter what you do to counter the bots... its the actual players who will suffer.

    There are so many stories i can tell you guys from DFO alone when it came to dealing with bots and how it screwed the actual community into oblivion.

    I just dont want to see this game die man... I have way to much fun with it to be destroyed just like that...

  • @MCPG76T45L said:
    Hey as long as you make sure to account for player damage in dungeons... Nexon dfo did a terrible job with that.

    Ever get banned from a game because you did to much damage to a boss?

    In Dfo Nexon didnt take into account that players could gear themselves to the point of doing insane damage numbers in fast bursts. Because of this, their auto ban system would ban players when they one shotted a boss. or Insta cleared a room with a huge attack. Theres a lot of things that could and can go wrong when it cmoes to trying to deal with bots... the golden rule however is, no matter what you do to counter the bots... its the actual players who will suffer.

    There are so many stories i can tell you guys from DFO alone when it came to dealing with bots and how it screwed the actual community into oblivion.

    I just dont want to see this game die man... I have way to much fun with it to be destroyed just like that...

    Same here same here.

  • @Pokechu said:
    @Katrian Please put me in jail, daddyor mommy. I need to atone for my sins.

  • @Pokechu said:
    @Katrian Please put me in jail, daddyor mommy. I need to atone for my sins.

    Giggity.

  • @Pokechu said:
    @Katrian Please put me in jail, daddyor mommy. I need to atone for my sins.

    Your Honor, the defendant once again plead guilty of his crimes and the sins he committed.

  • @Cochese Thanks for the response. Welp might as well trust you for the moment. Let's hope for the best.

    (I'm already dead inside) :)

  • MuonMuon Member

    @JasonAugustus said:
    I don't think something like the fatigue system should be put to a vote. I play for about an hour or so per day if I'm lucky, maybe a bit more on my days off. I've only been playing Closers for a couple of months, and I have little understanding of other MMOs. Why should my opinion on such a fundamental aspect of this game be counted as equal to someone who plays longer, has played longer, and has a working knowledge of MMOs? Multiply this by however many people currently play this game, all the variables.

    I think it's En Masse's responsibility as a company to make this call, and to make the call with a full understanding of all possible outcomes. This is their job, they get paid to know what will benefit a game and what will harm it.

    I may be a little bias on this because I hate democracy in general, but on this topic it's especially dangerous. I heard there was some kind of vote before the game's release about the fatigue system. I hope, that if there was a vote, En Masse did not consider it before making a decision, and I hope they do not put it to vote now.

    All the speculation about botting, economic collapse, etc, are things En Masse should be well aware of. If not, this game never had a chance. I believe they are competent enough to make the right call. They've held things together fairly well thus far. My experience has been a net positive.

    Someone dug it up. https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/1099/fatigue-system-suggestions-and-discussion/p1
    Im actually surprised that it was actually those people against with stamina are the majority. Thats why im against to accepting any info from these people spouting fake news about them being majority and have 1st hand experience with botting.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @Muon so the fact that when that was taken we only had pg5 (AFAIR) so everyone played the repeatable stages to just play eludes you it seems. Now that we have a lot more end game stances change. Also only fake news here is crap you are spouting.

    I'm done on this issue now. If it goes away and this game dies... thanks to all the non believers who think bots don't exist/are a good thing.

  • MuonMuon Member

    Im hoping to see at least one, so I can finally believe to at least one from these claims. Enmasse seems like they will publish botters list. We will know for sure if there is any. If there is none then I guess just LMAO?

    @Cochese said:

    1) Bots and Gold Selling - we are digging into bot detection, looking at solutions that others have used. This is a high priority regardless of fatigue. Look for more info on this soon. We are still working out a best solution but we plan on better identification of bots, improvements to impede bots through learnings, banning bots in waves, and then sharing that with all of you. We are committed to keeping Closers a safe and fun place to play.

  • The only ones that want Stamina are the people that think we need to game on their schedules. Black Desert, Path of Exile, and several other games do perfectly well without screwing their players out of actually PLAYING the game. If you wanna get rid of the botters, get rid of the botters. Don't punish the many for the few. Clean your crap up. You can log into this and every other game with a "bot limiter" and there are PILES of bots running around begging you to buy their crap. It doesn't change.

    This just meas I can finally start recommending this game, and even putting my money into the game itself through the cash shop. Good on you EnMasse for finally seeing the light. I will never say it's too late, you now have my attention, and just like I've thrown myself into Girls Frontline (another stamina-less MOBILE game), I too will be putting my efforts into Closers, and trying to get my anime-loving friends into it.

  • @RyuKaiser said:
    The only ones that want Stamina are the people that think we need to game on their schedules. Black Desert, Path of Exile, and several other games do perfectly well without screwing their players out of actually PLAYING the game. If you wanna get rid of the botters, get rid of the botters. Don't punish the many for the few. Clean your crap up. You can log into this and every other game with a "bot limiter" and there are PILES of bots running around begging you to buy their crap. It doesn't change.

    This just meas I can finally start recommending this game, and even putting my money into the game itself through the cash shop. Good on you EnMasse for finally seeing the light. I will never say it's too late, you now have my attention, and just like I've thrown myself into Girls Frontline (another stamina-less MOBILE game), I too will be putting my efforts into Closers, and trying to get my anime-loving friends into it.

    Previously in this topic, or on another been said that "Pat of Exile, BDO and others MMO don't made with fatigue in mind, bur Closers do"

    If EME can keep things good, then ok. I believe them. But if game starts to "Dying Slowly" then i don't think that you're gonna be happy because of without-stamina-system.

  • @Nathaniel697 said:
    If EME can keep things good, then ok. I believe them. But if game starts to "Dying Slowly" then i don't think that you're gonna be happy because of without-stamina-system.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/215830

    Uh, it's kinda BEEN bleeding people. That's the problem. Everyone saw stamina, shrugged, and chucked it away.

    Even then, the point has been made that end game is where it's at. It already has daily limits in it. As such, this will not affect end game, only leveling. It might even make it so trading isn't needed. Maybe they'll lock down the store completely instead, make it so people earn their gear rather than have to buy it. Trading only really had a place with caps in place afterall. I don't know. I'm just happy I can finally play the game.

    Lemme ask you this. If every other game on the market doesn't have these caps in place and is doing well, why the HELL would you think it's going to sign this game's death warrant? Does the game stop being fun without caps?

  • @RyuKaiser said:

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    If EME can keep things good, then ok. I believe them. But if game starts to "Dying Slowly" then i don't think that you're gonna be happy because of without-stamina-system.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/215830

    Uh, it's kinda BEEN bleeding people. That's the problem. Everyone saw stamina, shrugged, and chucked it away.

    Even then, the point has been made that end game is where it's at. It already has daily limits in it. As such, this will not affect end game, only leveling. It might even make it so trading isn't needed. Maybe they'll lock down the store completely instead, make it so people earn their gear rather than have to buy it. Trading only really had a place with caps in place afterall. I don't know. I'm just happy I can finally play the game.

    Lemme ask you this. If every other game on the market doesn't have these caps in place and is doing well, why the HELL would you think it's going to sign this game's death warrant? Does the game stop being fun without caps?

    If the game would've been overloaded by bots, then: Yes, it stop being fun. But it's just one of the worst scenarios.

    I repeat, I believe EnMasse and hope that they can handle this and already prepared for what can be happen.

    But like russians says "Доверяй, но проверяй"
    On English it sound like "Trust, but test"
    Not sure if there is something close to original meaning...

    Peoples leaving because of Tina vs Harpy event, not because of Fatigue. Maybe in fall of May because of Harpy's delayed release date and Closer Coins event. NOT BECAUSE OF FATIGUE

  • ZaikurronZaikurron Member
    edited June 2018

    @RyuKaiser said:
    The only ones that want Stamina are the people that think we need to game on their schedules. Black Desert, Path of Exile, and several other games do perfectly well without screwing their players out of actually PLAYING the game. If you wanna get rid of the botters, get rid of the botters. Don't punish the many for the few. Clean your crap up. You can log into this and every other game with a "bot limiter" and there are PILES of bots running around begging you to buy their crap. It doesn't change.

    This just meas I can finally start recommending this game, and even putting my money into the game itself through the cash shop. Good on you EnMasse for finally seeing the light. I will never say it's too late, you now have my attention, and just like I've thrown myself into Girls Frontline (another stamina-less MOBILE game), I too will be putting my efforts into Closers, and trying to get my anime-loving friends into it.

    i dont know what realm you live in where black desert is doing well when that game still has droves of bots/hackers daily but oh a steamchart says all about the health of the game right? when this game has a standalone launcher

  • @Nathaniel697 said:
    Peoples leaving because of Tina vs Harpy event, not because of Fatigue. Maybe in fall of May because of Harpy's delayed release date and Closer Coins event. NOT BECAUSE OF FATIGUE

    Actually, it's why I left. Several other people probably left or never downloaded as well. If you look at the MMORPG forums about this topic several people state they're not joining because of fatigue. If you want people to try and enjoy the game you need to release the restrictions and let people enjoy.

    @Zaikurron said:
    i dont know what realm you live in where black desert is doing well when that game still has droves of bots/hackers daily but oh a steamchart says all about the health of the game right? when this game has a standalone launcher

    It's the only metric I have, but seeing as the game is quite literally crushing it on one of PC's biggest platforms, yes, it's doing very well. Very active community enjoying it, tons of trade still going on, events that help boost up new and poorer players by getting them to roll new toons and try stuff out.

    Enmasse is welcome to publish it's concurrent users this past week though. Otherwise, I'm sticking with what Steam says, and the trends are all roughly the same for games like Dragon Nest, DFO, Elsword, and Kritika. All same game types. All use fatigue. All doing poorly. The only ones really doing well is SoulWorker, and it has it's own standalone launcher, and I'm thinking that game got all it's players from Steam, that and pretty 3D combat.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @RyuKaiser said:

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    If EME can keep things good, then ok. I believe them. But if game starts to "Dying Slowly" then i don't think that you're gonna be happy because of without-stamina-system.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/215830

    Uh, it's kinda BEEN bleeding people. That's the problem. Everyone saw stamina, shrugged, and chucked it away.

    Even then, the point has been made that end game is where it's at. It already has daily limits in it. As such, this will not affect end game, only leveling. It might even make it so trading isn't needed. Maybe they'll lock down the store completely instead, make it so people earn their gear rather than have to buy it. Trading only really had a place with caps in place afterall. I don't know. I'm just happy I can finally play the game.

    Lemme ask you this. If every other game on the market doesn't have these caps in place and is doing well, why the HELL would you think it's going to sign this game's death warrant? Does the game stop being fun without caps?

    So they appeal to the people who will play for like a month and once they see over inflated prices quit? Great logic. And if the stamina turned you off the lack of endgame will piss you off more so might as well just turn right around and leave.

    Also remember what happened to Nexon DFO? stamina gone? It died within a year if I am not mistaken.

    @JasonAugustus off topic but umm... that bar anology only works on how it is run... not the product. What drives what drinks are available is demand for said product.. if a certain cocktail only sells 1 out of 30 times you won't keep it on the menu. Like wise with tap. This is worldly different on how a bar works.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @mistressj said:
    @Muon far as I can tell those who had> @RyuKaiser said:

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    If EME can keep things good, then ok. I believe them. But if game starts to "Dying Slowly" then i don't think that you're gonna be happy because of without-stamina-system.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/215830

    Uh, it's kinda BEEN bleeding people. That's the problem. Everyone saw stamina, shrugged, and chucked it away.

    Even then, the point has been made that end game is where it's at. It already has daily limits in it. As such, this will not affect end game, only leveling. It might even make it so trading isn't needed. Maybe they'll lock down the store completely instead, make it so people earn their gear rather than have to buy it. Trading only really had a place with caps in place afterall. I don't know. I'm just happy I can finally play the game.

    Lemme ask you this. If every other game on the market doesn't have these caps in place and is doing well, why the HELL would you think it's going to sign this game's death warrant? Does the game stop being fun without caps?

    So they appeal to the people who will play for like a month and once they see over inflated prices quit? Great logic.

    We still don't know if it is going to be inflated. Anyone who knows what inflation is would point out that too much money in circulation would cause inflation. If Enmasse can prevent this too much money, we will have the same inflation rate as we do without stamina. People arent going to get rich just because stamina is gone, because those places that gives better money have daily limits. If a hardcore player started grinding on 1 map that has no stamina he will lose tons of money from instances like multiple Tiamat runs. Not only that, you need at least more than 10 hours to complete daily runs for 4 characters. If a player skip that, his characters will not grow for future places that give better loots/money than Tiamat does.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @Muon ignoring the bots that don't exist in a perfect world but a hardcore player definately would grind that 1 round. The raids can be done fairly quickly(I've done so on my 2 USED to be max chars lv 75) can't imagine 4 would be TOO much longer.. what else then? The player want's more. S/he will be grinding money for the shit's(sorry) and giggles and get a lot of money, then working the market... buy low sell high. Unless they just not play after the runs ofc.

  • MuonMuon Member

    You can ask someone with more than 4 chars doing all the daily runs, assuming I'm lying. I have 4 chars, it broke me doing all daily runs, I need at least 10hours to finish them all. From Tiamat, HoD (EBII farming), Irina raids, event runs, then Vitus and Mephisto raids. I cant even finish them, let alone spend time farming no-stamina places. Now whether my method is the best compared to someone doing 1 run on the same dungeon is another topic in the future. If I'm going to asked which is best assuming you give up your character progression, it would be 12 chars doing Tiamat runs, because Tiamat-san give tons of malek boxes.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    But it's all a moot point if Bots are revealed to be real anyway so.. all your hard work might be in vain

  • ZaikurronZaikurron Member
    edited June 2018

    @RyuKaiser said:

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    Peoples leaving because of Tina vs Harpy event, not because of Fatigue. Maybe in fall of May because of Harpy's delayed release date and Closer Coins event. NOT BECAUSE OF FATIGUE

    Actually, it's why I left. Several other people probably left or never downloaded as well. If you look at the MMORPG forums about this topic several people state they're not joining because of fatigue. If you want people to try and enjoy the game you need to release the restrictions and let people enjoy.

    @Zaikurron said:
    i dont know what realm you live in where black desert is doing well when that game still has droves of bots/hackers daily but oh a steamchart says all about the health of the game right? when this game has a standalone launcher

    It's the only metric I have, but seeing as the game is quite literally crushing it on one of PC's biggest platforms, yes, it's doing very well. Very active community enjoying it, tons of trade still going on, events that help boost up new and poorer players by getting them to roll new toons and try stuff out.

    Enmasse is welcome to publish it's concurrent users this past week though. Otherwise, I'm sticking with what Steam says, and the trends are all roughly the same for games like Dragon Nest, DFO, Elsword, and Kritika. All same game types. All use fatigue. All doing poorly. The only ones really doing well is SoulWorker, and it has it's own standalone launcher, and I'm thinking that game got all it's players from Steam, that and pretty 3D combat.

    you do realize bdo by being pretty and new its attracts alot of ppl and all the games you named are old looking?
    the horrible auction house is only "trading that game has also those events dont matter when you still need to fight the auction house raid boss then fight the ultimate boss himself the black spirit to get anywhere in the game with zero real content to use the gear on. the active community you are talking are just on the game hoping daum/kakao fix the shitstorm they made by fucking the only thing bdo has other than graphics which is the combat but sure actively complaining community i guess has active in it

  • Well a complaining community is a good way to measure the players activity.

    If a game doesn't have much complaints then damn either it's perfect or people have given up.

  • @CodeOrder said:
    Well a complaining community is a good way to measure the players activity.

    If a game doesn't have much complaints then damn either it's perfect or people have given up.

    And we all know there is no such thing as a perfect game

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @MicheleSP you will wanna stay away from the forums for a while. Atleast until eme can prove they can deal with the incoming bot threat because if Tera is any indication they can't.
    And patch order change can and possibly will happen again. You can think it can't all you want but it is their decision.
    Also tell me why c9 had a fatigue system and it thrived until 1 maybe 2 years ago(?)
    And your DFO arguement is bad. Nexon DFO removed the fatigue and it died within months I believe.

  • Ayy, you know as they say...Ignorance is bliss. Maybe this is why we have to suffer @Pokechu

  • @MicheleSP because if you are sick of the debates it won't stop til they can prove they can deal with bots effecively.

    And c9 was instance based just like this with char classes just like this. I fail to see any real uniqueness. And it was FAR more grindy.

  • meanwhile farming for Those juicy new Irina wings that will never drop luls.

    On the bright side Violet is closer

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