Thanks To Your Feedback...

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  • Oh boy. We're in for it now. Buckle up and empty out the Black Market

  • YexeleYexele Member

    @IDoNotMainJ said:
    Because they don't find it's worth, or a good idea, to discuss changes with the current player base. They just decide to full on go out and send the news to people.

    And it is all "Thanks to Your Feedback..." :)

  • Yep they didn't even discuss it with the current playerbase.. Man, now I'm scared

  • A lot of people are making a comparison with JP's economy with it's insane bm prices but as far as I know, JP never got the nerf to the malek crystal boxes. They gain credits many times quicker than we can in NA or KR.

  • I actually chuckled... Thanks Yexele.... at least there's someone witty enough to make jokes of the currently dreaded issue

  • Why do you people think bots are limited by a fatigue system? Do you think gold sellers only make one account or something? Fatigue systems don't do a single thing to gold sellers, they make hundreds of accounts and cycle them around.

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    sometimes I find that Pay to Play actually makes sense especially in these grounds.

    You do realize that every single pay-to-play game has bots, right?

  • Yeah, of course, Not one game is safe from bots, but the thing about pay to play is that is has the least bots due to having to actually PAY for the game @slash197

  • KasatsuKasatsu Member
    edited June 2018

    @Pokechu said:

    @Yexele said:

    @IDoNotMainJ said:
    Because they don't find it's worth, or a good idea, to discuss changes with the current player base. They just decide to full on go out and send the news to people.

    And it is all "Thanks to Your Feedback..." :)

    I'd still like to know where they got their supposed "feedback" from.

    mostly from stream but there is like 100 people looking and im nice with those number i think
    its way from a "feeback" even if we are not that so many

    Oh and @Pokechu you'r lucky they dont make voting for violet or wolfgang

    i didnt use any money on this game and im sad to be happy that i didnt

  • its all a ploy to make pokechudesu stop playing the game and eventually stop flooding the forums with gifs/pics

  • Another good way to prevent bots is to use the subscription system which FFXIV use. Though there are still bots, the users behind those bots will need to pay for the game which in the end causes low bots population. Though Square Enix is famous for killing bots in an instant. How would En Masse match up to that.

    Sorry, out of topic :D

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited June 2018

    I was actually planning to spend 20-40$ some time in a few months for that sweet sweet elite/platinum before this happened... glad to know it I don't have to waste money on a game that's hellbent on choking itself with rope will driving straight to a cliff.

  • Well. We can only hope.
    It's your move EME.

  • SandersLMAOSandersLMAO Member
    edited June 2018

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    I was actually planning to spend 20-40$ some time in a few months for that sweet sweet elite/platinum before this happened... glad to know it I don't have to waste money on a game that's hellbent on choking itself with rope will driving straight to a cliff.

    uhh assuming the economy isn't ruined, you can get plat status with about 300m credits. even cheaper when the supermegaultragigaomega hyperclocked deal comes back

  • @SandersLMAO yeah, I actually recently bought 15-day elite around 68M.

  • GenmGenm Member

    @Pokechu said:

    @SandersLMAO said:
    its all a ploy to make pokechudesu stop playing the game and eventually stop flooding the forums with gifs/pics

    No gifs/pics when I'm genuinely mad.

    oh no :c

  • SandersLMAOSandersLMAO Member
    edited June 2018

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    @SandersLMAO yeah, I actually recently bought 15-day elite around 68M.

    oof 68m is rough, is that EU price? If its NA, I've bad news for you bruh

    nvm i take that back, i just saw someone quoting 70m for 15 day elite, I used to buy them for 40m and this news is a little hard to bite

  • It's NA sadly @SandersLMAO ... inflation has started to happen already and I can see it for a fact... DC crown now costs 200m and anything lower gets removed/bought to prevent price getting lowered.

  • @ArunoSesugawa said:
    It's NA sadly @SandersLMAO ... inflation has started to happen already and I can see it for a fact... DC crown now costs 200m and anything lower gets removed/bought to prevent price getting lowered.

    PepeHands I can only hope the prices drop when cybernetics gets released and people cash out their DC sets or gacha like mad. I'm only just starting to compile my own DC set on 1 character :/

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited June 2018

    Pet eggs cost around 55m-60m if they ever get posted on BM... recently saw 15-day elite being sold at 80-90m

    and regarding DC set, I'm making my own using 3* costumes + Synchro fibers... the accessories are the only real thing stopping me from getting a full set.

  • @MicheleSP said:
    Stop it with your whining you idiots. Why are you now regretting the removal of fatigue? What's wrong with your minds?! I play this game and have not seen a lot of bots. Maybe there might be bots but EME will ban them anyways. Why the hell are you opposed to this idea?!

    This massively benefits us in a lot of ways. Leveling is not hard, but leveling with fatigue is very annoying. And without fatigue, items become easier to buy at Black Market. This will make this game play to win, the problem of being pay to win is that the gold bots essentially are claiming to give you gold and when you pay for them nothing happens and users are scammed. So, if peoples could infinitely do main dungeons and get materials, getting certain items will be instantly easier.

    Fatigue should NOT have been there in the first place anyways, stupids. Look it up for yourself. Fatigue system killed MOST (not all, some still survive like Elsword, other game that I love) of the MMO games. The games with no fatigue systems survived very long. So without fatigue this game will survive for a very long time.

    You guys are stupid for not realizing that no fatigue will give this game an longer lifespan. I hate when peoples complains and whines that fatigue needs to stay and I don't get it at all, not only this scandal but also the Internet - firstly peoples hated fatigue systems, and wanted it improved OR removed, and now they regret asking this?!

    Really, how pitiful is it to fall into a trap, being deceived, and instantly jumping to the same conclusion - removing fatigue is bad, but in reality it should NOT have been there.

    I hate this whole whining. I wish you guys would shut up. You whippersnappers should close your mouths, take this news in, and shut up without whining anymore, you fools!

    Correct me if I'm wrong but you said that fatigue is a bad thing but that removing fatigue is also bad. If we are already in a bad situation according to you, then removing fatigue would make it even worse correct?

  • @MicheleSP not even gonna argue since I've more or less gave up at this point and just waiting for the apocalypse to happen...

    to quote Pengyz

    @> @Pengyz said:

    If EME really listens to us, they would cease this madness at once. I've made a couple posts since CBT on why we should keep fatigue, and my opinion remains unchanged.

    I'm not sure what Naddic considers a healthy economy, but here:

    eb2
    first page of costumes
    last page of costumes

    Yeah man, Those looks real easy to buy...

  • @MicheleSP said:
    Stop it with your whining you idiots. Why are you now regretting the removal of fatigue? What's wrong with your minds?! I play this game and have not seen a lot of bots. Maybe there might be bots but EME will ban them anyways. Why the hell are you opposed to this idea?!

    This massively benefits us in a lot of ways. Leveling is not hard, but leveling with fatigue is very annoying. And without fatigue, items become easier to buy at Black Market. This will make this game play to win, the problem of being pay to win is that the gold bots essentially are claiming to give you gold and when you pay for them nothing happens and users are scammed. So, if peoples could infinitely do main dungeons and get materials, getting certain items will be instantly easier.

    Fatigue should NOT have been there in the first place anyways, stupids. Look it up for yourself. Fatigue system killed MOST (not all, some still survive like Elsword, other game that I love) of the MMO games. The games with no fatigue systems survived very long. So without fatigue this game will survive for a very long time.

    You guys are stupid for not realizing that no fatigue will give this game an longer lifespan. I hate when peoples complains and whines that fatigue needs to stay and I don't get it at all, not only this scandal but also the Internet - firstly peoples hated fatigue systems, and wanted it improved OR removed, and now they regret asking this?!

    Really, how pitiful is it to fall into a trap, being deceived, and instantly jumping to the same conclusion - removing fatigue is bad, but in reality it should NOT have been there.

    I hate this whole whining. I wish you guys would shut up. You whippersnappers should close your mouths, take this news in, and shut up without whining anymore, you fools!

    1. We wanted changes for the fatigue system, more ways to get pots so that we could lower them, which now is possible. There werent nearly as many remove fatigue posts than there were 2 months ago, when there wasnt an option to craft those pots.
    2. yes, leveling might be quicker because of no fatigue limit, but things wong become easier to buy in the black market. If there is alot of Money in circulation prices will skyrocket, aka inflation.
    3. Fatigue systems in these sorts of games are quite normal in Korea
    4. Hated fatigue is rather harsh, i'd say we wanted to see changes.
    5. you may hate the whining, but what you are doing currently isnt any different. you are throwing around swearwords to make your voice come through, yet it only makes you less likeable and people will care less about what you say.
  • @ArunoSesugawa said:

    Yeah man, Those looks real easy to buy...

    It's already been stated that the pictures from JP's marketplace may be taken out of context due to how malek crystal boxes work there.

  • @MicheleSP said:

    @EMGXKW4DP7 said:

    @MicheleSP said:
    Stop it with your whining you idiots. Why are you now regretting the removal of fatigue? What's wrong with your minds?! I play this game and have not seen a lot of bots. Maybe there might be bots but EME will ban them anyways. Why the hell are you opposed to this idea?!

    This massively benefits us in a lot of ways. Leveling is not hard, but leveling with fatigue is very annoying. And without fatigue, items become easier to buy at Black Market. This will make this game play to win, the problem of being pay to win is that the gold bots essentially are claiming to give you gold and when you pay for them nothing happens and users are scammed. So, if peoples could infinitely do main dungeons and get materials, getting certain items will be instantly easier.

    Fatigue should NOT have been there in the first place anyways, stupids. Look it up for yourself. Fatigue system killed MOST (not all, some still survive like Elsword, other game that I love) of the MMO games. The games with no fatigue systems survived very long. So without fatigue this game will survive for a very long time.

    You guys are stupid for not realizing that no fatigue will give this game an longer lifespan. I hate when peoples complains and whines that fatigue needs to stay and I don't get it at all, not only this scandal but also the Internet - firstly peoples hated fatigue systems, and wanted it improved OR removed, and now they regret asking this?!

    Really, how pitiful is it to fall into a trap, being deceived, and instantly jumping to the same conclusion - removing fatigue is bad, but in reality it should NOT have been there.

    I hate this whole whining. I wish you guys would shut up. You whippersnappers should close your mouths, take this news in, and shut up without whining anymore, you fools!

    Correct me if I'm wrong but you said that fatigue is a bad thing but that removing fatigue is also bad. If we are already in a bad situation according to you, then removing fatigue would make it even worse correct?

    Well, I didn't say that leveling with fatigue is annoying, I only said it explicitly (which mean not implied).
    My point is that removing fatigue is a blessing - keeping fatigue will only make it worse. I always see peoples whining and disliking fatigue system but this is the first I hear of peoples disliking the fatigue removal.

    No fatigue = Bot Gold Spaming = Inflates prices on items in BM = Bye economy.

    If you don't belive that, read arguments that explain why a game with no fatigue will inflates prices. Also there are images where you'll see Hyperclocked Equalizers cost 200M, Enhacement Booster II 13M and some costumes 40M, and that's in Closers JP, where supposedly the economy is "stable".

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited June 2018

    @EMGXKW4DP7 true, but think about it, having no fatigue will easily do the same in this Server regarding unlimited entries, gold coins, statues dropping nonstop... in fact there used to be something about this exact thing where just spamming endgame story dungeons nonstop guarantees at least 1-2 statues per run... sure they're not malek statues but given enough stacks... it's gonna be as much.

    while the picture above is the extreme of the extremes, this will happen once fatigue is removed. Players who have literally no life outside the computer will spam the dungeons which will make money easier to get which will make prices go higher since the cost of the credits (money) is starting to become less of what it used to be... but the people who can't play nonstop and have lives outside of the computers will be flabbergasted and frustrated when they see these new prices... the only way they can get enough money to buy that is by non-stop grinding in which they cant..

    take note, I'm not saying anything abouts bots and RMT websites above since we all know that's already a thing and it's more or less a dead horse of a fact to even state.

  • @EMGXKW4DP7 said:

    @ArunoSesugawa said:

    Yeah man, Those looks real easy to buy...

    It's already been stated that the pictures from JP's marketplace may be taken out of context due to how malek crystal boxes work there.

    how do they work there? i honestly don't know and am curious.

  • @MicheleSP read these

    @Draciusen said:
    Huh I completely missed this post.
    Here's my feedback EnMasse: pls no

    Proposed changes:
    * Characters start with 1190 cap fatigue (none of this week build-up mechanic).
    * Fatigue potions given at same point where you get skillbooks in quest storyline.
    * Maybe even raise character fatigue to 1500
    * Remove account fatigue, we're not alt-haters here

    I agree with @Volt8ge .That feedback you're probably pulling from are from players who literally started playing the game, saw fatigue and quit immediately, then leave a negative review on Steam. The players who will never spend a single cent on this game (despite saying they might have if it didn't have fatigue); and would have contributed nothing to your profits. The players who wouldn't even know how to gear themselves up or learn raid mechanics, and drag everybody down in parties.


    If you remove fatigue, you will invite a lot more players into playing this game, that's for sure. Those players will also come with a never-ending wave of gold farmers, making the servers seem a lot more crowded and popular. However, eventually, those gold farmers will take their toll on this game.

    The economy will crash almost overnight the second the farmers have their bot systems in place. The advertisers will eventually fill every channel, every hub with endless spam. The game will develop a reputation of being infested with bots and spammers. No new players will stick around. The casual players you wanted to attract? Those will be the first to go. You're now back to square one; except now your original loyal players are disgusted with the ruins of the economy and infestation of spammers/bots everywhere. Slowly, even they will leave. You are now left with a small population of the most hardcore whales who have invested too much into this game to leave.

    Eventually, the gold farmers will thin out (but never leave entirely) as the game is no longer popular enough to be profitable. The economy is in complete shambles, and the damage is irreversible. The game will likely still sustain itself because of the whales, but it'll never have the popularity it once had before all of this. Eventually this game will revitalize itself, pick itself up as old players pick it up again after the mess is over; but things will never be the same. The game will still be fun, still be playable; but you can clearly see that it's running on life support compared to the fresh feel it had all those months/years ago.

    The potential of this game will have been gambled away for nothing more than a few months worth of popularity catering to casual Joe MMO who switches games every month, never spends a cent, and never reaches endgame. Please don't do this EnMasse.

    @Lilacette said:
    Do not proceed with this.
    First of all, the feedback that you have seen is most likely from the minority of players who actually want fatigue to be removed. The rest of us are pretty much satisfied with the way the fatigue is at the moment which is why we haven't said anything about it. You really should've given the community a thread to post their feedback on this idea before you advanced with this decision, that way you would've gotten everyone's opinion beforehand, and not just the few people who complain about stamina because they only play one character or they haven't gotten far into the game yet to recognize that stamina is not an issue.

    I understand that for players who only want to play one character, they are quite limited as to only having 1190 stamina weekly. This can be changed with only removing character fatigue, so it is much more fair to those players and will not affect everyone else.
    However, removing fatigue altogether is such a bad idea.

    Botting; when you already take too long to ban the bots spamming in the general and world chats even after being reported days before by the players and player council, things will be much worse after this update. At the moment, fatigue is the only thing limiting bots from spamming sectors over and over again. Taking this away will definitely result to more bots, more credit-selling, and more inflation in the black market.
    Black market and prices of items; it is definitely going to inflate. With people being able to complete sectors without any limitations, there's going to be a lot more credits in-game, and with this it means credits will have less worth. Of course the black market can be monitored, but once inflation happens it's going to become very hard to change that back. Newer players especially will have a tough time catching up to older players in terms of credits and being able to buy things, even gearing up will be harder. For example, in the Japanese server, they removed stamina and now it's over 10m just to buy 1x Enhancement Boost 2. You will need a lot of these to progress with gear which will become extremely difficult. There are already a lot of other screenshots and examples of this that have been posted as well.
    Housing; you can get materials, credits, fuels, but you honestly don't get much of them and housing becomes pretty much unnecessary after you've got your housing to the max level. Without fatigue being a reward for leveling up your housing, you will definitely need to change the reward to something just as valuable if you're going through with this decision. Don't rush this idea without everyone's thoughts and feedback either.
    Content; without the limit of fatigue, people will be able to breeze through new content with every character within the first few days of it being released. Fatigue is keeping people from rushing through content on all of their characters so that they always have something to do until the next update is released. When the players are able to complete all the new content on each of their characters in no time, they will be left with nothing to do and will either leave the game until the next update is released or do daily raids until they get bored. This will make it exceptionally difficult to keep your players happy and content would need to be released at a much faster pace than right now.

    In my opinion, there is not a good enough reason to remove fatigue. Players are given tonnes of stamina potions weekly and are even able to craft them. After completing their housing, it is actually quite difficult to use up all your fatigue in a week, especially when you're given lots of potions to use on top of housing. The best idea here is to remove character fatigue only, and also remove the limit of the first 7 days after creating a character. That way, new players will be able to see that fatigue is barely a problem, and will be able to freely level up their main character. However, to remove the first 7 day limit is also a risk, you will have to me even more careful about bots as they wont have to wait 7 days to receive their full stamina anymore. Therefore, even if fatigue is removed or not, you will still need to buck up and make sure to have someone or a team of people to ban these bots as soon as they are seen/reported.

    Definitely reconsider this decision and listen to everyone who has given their feedback on this thread. There is definitely more cons than pros to this idea and more harm will be done by removing fatigue. The majority of players clearly want fatigue/account fatigue to be kept.

    These are the arguments that I liked the most and those that best explain why the fatigue system should not be removed.

  • the fact that capping stamina is quite hard to do for those that are more or less casuals at the game and don't have enough time to play it.

  • EMGXKW4DP7EMGXKW4DP7 Member
    edited June 2018

    @SandersLMAO said:

    @EMGXKW4DP7 said:

    @ArunoSesugawa said:

    Yeah man, Those looks real easy to buy...

    It's already been stated that the pictures from JP's marketplace may be taken out of context due to how malek crystal boxes work there.

    how do they work there? i honestly don't know and am curious.

    Once upon a time, KR got a nerf to the boxes that prevented the even chances to roll for any sized stack of malek crystals. As an example, before this nerf, it was common to get rolls for stacks of 10 malek crystals and above. After this nerf, the majority of rolls are just for 1 crystal. JP never got this nerf but it's present in NA and KR.

    Also consider that JP is ahead in term of raid content and subsequently, amount of malek crystal boxes dropped per day. Given enough time, the market has stabilized at the prices in see in the screenshots.

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