Founders and Hyper-clocked Titles/Visual Frames

edited July 2018 in Closers Feedback

This is the response given to a friend of mine - a Founder - when asked about receiving the Visual Frame rewards that were recently implemented. I had initially thought it unnecessary to ask for such a thing. Certainly it was a minor oversight on EME's part that would soon be corrected, no?

It seems I was wrong.

From what I've heard of other people that had bought the Hyper-clocked deal for Cybernetics and gotten the costume, this is not a Founders exclusive issue. When people bought the Hyper-clocked deal wanting to get Cybernetics early, they were expecting to get Cybernetics - with its titles, special cut ins and all other associated benefits, not this half-implemented excuse, and the same applies to Founders.

Much of the appeal of rare costumes is not simply the costume itself or the 10-piece stats, but the other extra bonuses that come with it. Imagine if one were to buy the Founders SoD but be told that, no, they can't have the special SoD voice, the hub pose and entry animations - that's only for those that had crafted it in game. They did get the SoD costume after all, so there's nothing wrong with this is there?

Sarcasm aside, the way that EME is implementing this is lazy at best and outright offensive at its worst.

Founders paid over a hundred dollars for their packs and one of the main draws that led people to do so was the SoD costume that came with it, but as time goes on and titles and visual frames and all other rare-costume related perks are implemented into the game, Founders are finding themselves to be forgotten by the company they chose to support. This is also little different from those who decided to spend money at a marginal chance at getting Cybernetics from the Hyper-clocked deals - and now find themselves losing out on their investment because if they want the frames and titles, they'll have to craft the costume in spite of already having spent hard earned money on it. EME really is giving its funding players the shaft with this issue, especially with bonuses that are entirely cosmetic.

With the way things are right now, Founders appear to have been forgotten about by the staff (let's not mention the fact Sylvi's Founder wings are still bugged), and the same is starting to extend to players that bought into the Cybernetics deal. In this case it seems to have been better to have waited for a Fibration pack and just crafted the thing yourself - it'd certainly have been more worth it considering what the packs give are unfinished sets devoid of their full rewards.

Is this how EME wants to treat the playerbase keeps the servers afloat?

How hard is it to simply look at the list of players with Founder bonuses and mail them a title and a visual frame ticket? How difficult is it to look at those with successful 6/6 or 10/10 Cybernetics pulls and reward them in part?

Not too hard when considering the PR gained, and especially not too hard when considering the negative perception spending players will have of this publisher if nothing is done.


  • Im not gonna read these long bibles. That's why you don't $$$ and craft

  • @Mirakujo said:
    Im not gonna read these long bibles. That's why you don't $$$ and craft

    The problem is that you could still have whaled to heaven and beyond and still gotten all of the bonuses. They certainly haven't been shy with putting up Fibration Boxes in their Daily Deals page.

    This is what makes this all feel underhanded. If there had been information about this beforehand, I'm certain many people who had money to spend would instead have spent it on such deals to craft the costumes rather than buying the boxes - and note all of this is compounded by EME's refusal to have a 100% merge event!

    The money you pay is irrelevant because it'd still have yielded costumes anyways. It's that the publisher is cucking a portion of the playerbase that bought into their promise of the Hyper-clocked deal and Founders.

  • GonzohGonzoh Member

    The founders deserve that visual frame more than anyone

  • Ray676Ray676 Member

    specifically says you need to convert costumes for the border. read noob

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited July 2018

    @Ray676 said:
    specifically says you need to convert costumes for the border. read noob

    Remember when White Cat Club was released? The visual frame only said that one needed 6 pieces in your inventory for the cut-in, except that this wasn't quite right. It was 3-star costume only! It wasn't until a far later patch that they updated the description for it.

    How about the Ivory Icon pack, which still claims you can get the voice and effects by having them in Costume Inventory, but will not activate unless you have them all equipped on your character?

    What about the people who bought Cat Costumes without any indication it needed to be 3 star?

    They read the description before their investment.

    What about the people who got Ivory packs but find they can't have the 10-piece Rare costume bonus if they also want to have the white wings since they need it equipped?

    They read the description before their investment.


    Read, noob.

    Oh wait, it doesn't matter. Because what can be read is not what actually happens.

    Let us not argue about erroneous descriptions or semantics. Let us not be "noobs". Let's talk about what really matters - principle. And do read this, if you at the very least haven't read the thread.

    Other servers have costume conversion as the only means to acquire Rare costumes. It makes sense for the achievement to be tied to Costume Conversion since there were no Founders packs, no Hyper-clocked deals, no other means to acquire the sets outside of merging or potentially the Black Market.

    That's what it all is. It's a failure of proper localisation. Our server had other, alternative means of attaining these costumes. The expectation for those who have spent money on them is that these alternative methods would include the same benefits as the traditional method present in other versions.

    We don't seem to have that.

    In fact, did you know that the titles and Visual Frame were added after our game got released?

    Think about it like this. In the first month, one person got SoD as a Founder. Another person chose to buy EMP and use that in Bitna to get the mats to craft it instead. Both of them got the set, just by different means, and there was nothing else to it.

    Then, 9 months down the line, suddenly they are bringing in these brand new Visual Frames! The one who had crafted it off Bitna rolls suddenly receives the Visual Frame by mail - without having to earn any new achievements or the like - while the Founders one does not.

    Neither knew that they had to merge the costume to get this new reward. Yet now one has it where the other does not.

    Read, noob.

    Oh wait, you couldn't. Because there was nothing to read.

    Does something not strike you as odd here?

    People made investments before the fact you had to craft them for Visual Frames was even known. And this is just if we go by the assumption that this must forever be the only way of gaining the Visual Frame, as people have had the expectation that they would receive it even through these alternative methods EME have given.

    At the end of the day, all this does is hurt spending players and hurt EME's reputation. It makes it less likely for people to buy into their deals since they know they won't receive any of the extra bonuses. It also has them come across as uncaring for the playerbase that sustains their game.

    They can do whatever they want. The question however, is what they should do.

    I believe none of us are illiterate here. The matter is not one of specific wording, it's of principle, and the inability to look at it in such a perspective is something I find more fitting to a "noob".

  • ikr when your friends crafted the dc set and they have the visual dc frame but you who "bought" founder's pack but you dont have it, feels badman

  • KhleysKhleys Member
    edited July 2018

    People who buy the full 6 piece from market don't get the frame or title either.
    Imo the frame should serve as achievement for getting through RNGesus, because it's potentially more expensive to obtain this way.

    I'm saying this as someone who bought 2 founders packs...

    Also, EME never advertised giving title or frame from when Founders set was released.
    This is like asking an artist to draw you new art for free when you bought from them before because their art improved.

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited July 2018

    @Khleys said:
    Also, EME never advertised giving title or frame from when Founders set was released.
    This is like asking an artist to draw you new art for free when you bought from them before because their art improved.

    I don't think this comparison holds up too well. This is already a horrible comparison to MMOs in general. Why ask for new updates when you've already paid for a game? Why should developers continue creating content that's improved from the previous one when you've already paid for their merchandise - or haven't paid at all?

    But that's beyond the point. The thing with this is that they never advertised the Visual Frames at all. They simply didn't exist back when the Founders packs were a thing.

    So, fair enough. We're asking the artist to draw new art and they refuse. But then the artist chooses to take someone else and draw them new art for free anyways without even asking.

    Just because they paid with PayPal instead of direct debit.

    The big problem here is that we didn't know that buying the Founders Packs would exclude us from these rewards and only now we're finding this out - with less than 2 weeks to go before SoD gets removed completely from the Rare costume merge. Reward or not, they never advertised giving title or frame from Founders, but they didn't advertise giving title or frame from crafts until it actually came in as new content - so why does one get where the other doesn't?

    This is especially relevant because even the savvier players who had kept up with KR content wouldn't have known about it, as Visual Frames were only added recently (around April 2018) in the KR client, so they had no way to know about this.

  • I agree. I feel like this is a huge cop-out for all the people that actually paid for founder packs and cybernetic rng boxes. There should be a way for us to get the titles/visual frames as well without having the craft the sets all over again.

  • HadasyHadasy Member
    edited July 2018

    Does the frame unlock if you buy the set from the Black Market?
    If it does, the Founder and Hyper deals should unlock it as well.
    If not, I could consider it fair, since it'd be a way to showcase you challenged the merging system.

    (This is as an Ace founder and someone who got Cybernetics through said deal.)

  • LinoCrelierLinoCrelier Member
    edited July 2018

    @Hadasy said:
    Does the frame unlock if you buy the set from the Black Market?
    If it does, the Founder and Hyper deals should unlock it as well.
    If not, I could consider it fair, since it'd be a way to showcase you challenged the merging system.

    Certainly a fair point. I think this is mostly applicable to the Hyper-clocked pack as opposed to the Founders one though, mostly because of trading capacity.

    Say someone decides to buy the Hyper-clocked deal instead of challenging the merging system, they can still get away with selling their items for a profit (especially given its "pre-release" status) and then using such funds for sychro attempts. In other words, if they really want the frame, it's possible for these users to sell their existing sets and then craft instead for the achievement.

    It still feels like a cop-out when considering how hard they were pushing the Hyper-clocked deal. This lack of reward stinks of a "read the fine print" moment and is sure to leave quite a few people with buyer's remorse. But I suppose that's beyond the point.

    Let's look at Founders instead. They were given untradeable SoD pieces. This typically means that if a Founder wants to try and merge for the title and frames, they would have to then be sitting on two sets of SoD when all is said and done. Although the secondary set could be sold afterwards to recoup losses, they are incapable of sustaining a starter fund for it.

    All of this stings even more for Founders since these things didn't quite exist when the purchases were made. What if instead of being given the SoD set itself, they had another reward and our server had a 100% merge event as all the others did? This is why I feel this is a failure in localisation on EME's part, because the context of our beginnings has to be taken into account with this too.

    Given that it's unlikely that we'll ever see a 100% merge event (considering their response to such an event with Cybernetics), it seems restrictive that they would choose not to, at the very least, recompense Founders - those with untradeable pieces who banked on the set, the game and its future - with the Visual Frame.

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