Fatigue System - Suggestions and Discussion

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  • Daily Fatigue

    i'm no alt-player, but i'm all for daily stam (probably cuz of my almost 6 years of Elsword experience)... daily stam doesn't really affect me that much

    even though i'm no alt-player, I just go all like "meh, I just do something else now."

    though yah, while I prefer daily stam, I also like the weekly stam cuz I got less time on my hands due to work. Also, I stand firm for the suggestion I made during Alpha (which almost instantly got rejected by fellow Alpha players), with making it so that stamina isn't used when doing dungs with daily entry limits (PG, Tiamat, etc.).

  • @TheUsernameIsTaken said:

    Ah well the first principle if you suggest a method thats simple and realistic to implement with all the considerations thought out and the experience to foresee the problems after playing the game (and reaching endgame, most important here) then by all means suggest a way to cater to players with single-char playstyles. Theyre still going to miss out on different character story and mechanics. Understanding what other characters do is the key to improving pvp play and pve play (knowing buffs, debuffs or small windows of damage increase)

    Admittedly I don't have any experience of the end-game so I have no idea how fatigue works at higher levels. I can only infer that fatigue acts as a cap towards end-game content. Basically what Iw as suggesting before was to enable players who want to advance quickly to the end-game to do so -- at least give them something to do as much as they want rather than preventing them from playing on that character. This goes back to my first issue in that we're having a playstyle shoved down our throats that we have to take unless we want to stop playing -- even let it be inferior to alt-based players that do have more experience, skill, currency etc.

    It's just incredibly frustrating to start a new character with somebody and go, "Oh, I can't do ANYTHING on this character unless I want to hit a wall on mine while he still has stuff to do."

    And ur right, it doesnt sound like it supports fatigue. But thats because it sort of acts as a regulation tool to prevent problems. Like as FoSizzle said, it will affect the market. JP has a system where you can buy fatigue potions and I dont hear many good things about its market. Yes I tried JP myself out of curiosity to see how no fatigue felt and despite having the power to just grind, my interest in it died around Han High School. Two servers with no fatigue achieved the same effect. There was no real pressure to use fatigue and as a result I just forgot or did not care about progress I could catch up to later.

    The effectiveness of the game economy doesn't have to be regulated by playtime -- even so, those with alt-based characters would naturally be richer than single-player based characters because they can play exponentially more, no? If we're talking about currency in the end-game that can easily be enforced through other limiters -- just don't slap new players with a brick wall when they find mechanics or a game that they simply want to enjoy.

    And this also goes back to enforcing a certain playstyle -- i'm sure that just by comparing our own interests we enjoy much different things out of a game -- I just don't have the option of playing how I want to play while you can, but since you enjoy that playstyle you don't have a problem with it -- that doesn't mean I shouldn't have a problem with the system and i'm sure many people feel the same way.

    Fatigue generally isnt a problem in this game, its also a nice motivator/reminder to get stuff done within a specified daily time.
    Also im sure a lot of western gamers have already been exposed to some sort of cap system, Feightry mentions a weekly loot restriction, Dragon Nest and WoW rested exp, mobile games. In some form and to an extent, games with ridiculously low drops to compensate for no playtime limiter.

    While I never played Dragon Nest, WoW never had a system that slams a brick wall on you when they felt you were playing too much. The limitations in WoW are to ensure a steady pace of players into the end game to keep it challenging. However, even after htiting those caps, they can still play the same character, do different content, or pursue other goals that don't directly line up with higher level or better gear.

    And personally, I think comparing PC game culture to mobile is a horrible comparison. Like many Mobile games, I don't want to have to pay fees on my PC game to simply play more -- I'll just find something else.

    Oh and course of Feightry does bring up a good point which may work, but it will affect ppl that are on regularly which I can see pvpers complaining that there isnt much variety in their queues. Likewise the dead hours is prime time for people to abuse it so they can climb the pvp ladder which again needs work.

    Oh and as for fatigue only affecting new players. Its perspective.
    Leveling: God I want to use this fatigue to reach Lv60 on day one.
    Endgame: I used my fatigue to do my runs of PG, made some progress, made some money. I am content OR I have 3 alts at lvl63, I can just burst some runs in.

    By new players I meant the ones receiving their first impressions of the game, not the ones AT end-game already. I completely agree end-game limitations need to be kept in place.

    Reach endgame, get two characters to at least level 57 or 63. Screenshot to me your fatigue progress on both characters and your material inventory for both characters. Using all of the account fatigue is a nice challenge and also tell me how it felt. Opinions change after using the fatigue system for at least two weeks just like how I changed mine to go beyond daily fatigue as a poll option.

    I'd try to hit end-game already but there's this fatigue wall that keeps getting slammed in my face, and combine that with my friend's availability i'm being a tad slow.

    If thats not doable for now, suggest a well thought out plan to implement no fatigue whilst having a great deal of understanding about this game to consider the effort required, the drawbacks, how realistic it is, priority level of this as a problem that will benefit all. Like in my head I just think, just create a server without fatigue as a experiment to view overall player interest but this is no longer alpha/cbt so testing it now would have drawbacks.

    At what I had experienced to far, (not end-game) I dont' think there would be really any problem if they just let people level as they want. I haven't had to use the economy at all I went to the black market once because I was curious, but didn't really see anything on there they I could use or even want.

    That being said, I literally see no problem is just letting players level their characters without a fatigue as a limiter, and if there is one that I am completely unaware of, particularly as someone who has yet needed to associate with other players, I would like to know. But it sounds like armageddon if fatigue is being removed so clearly there are issues i'm unaware of, or fatigue is blanketing over too much of the game and narrow it down a bit?

    Its hard to sort of please everybody, the marketplace, pvp queue activity, finding people to do runs with for PG rift 5/ crew missions, levelling journey (which opinion quickly changes when leveling alts with 1190 usable stamina). When you consider all of that and look at the other areas of the game that need work on, fatigue I consider would be on the lower list.

    Hmm. Maybe if we let players play more we could
    A: Have more PvP activity
    B: More active market. More players trading, more available resources and demands to leverage etc.
    C: Increase player base for end-game content
    D: Remove leveling frustration of new players

    All of which I would argue, directly affect the longevity of the game, player base, and success of the game.

  • My personal two sense on the matter because im personally a firm believer of the idea of removing stamina which the problems that most f2p franchises have with things like running out of content becuase people will sit down for 1-2 weeks and run through everything and then complain theres nothing left. we could remove the stamina system and instead use locks on endgame content the makes more progression towards things like gear making it so players who want to sit and grind out other characters dont have to worry about things like running out of stamina and such, seeing as how the game already limits you as is, its takes around 6-8 days to level a character from 1 to 65 assuming ur starting from a new acc. if we just limit how often players can do certain content instead of overall "limiting" how long players can have access to the full game options with their mains.

  • edited December 2017
    Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:
    Hmm. Maybe if we let players play more we could
    A: Have more PvP activity
    B: More active market. More players trading, more available resources and demands to leverage etc.
    C: Increase player base for end-game content
    D: Remove leveling frustration of new players

    All of which I would argue, directly affect the longevity of the game, player base, and success of the game.

    A: More would be inclined to pve
    B: Market is essentially a game to not be undercut. More supply from fatigue being removed will result in devalued items.
    C: Some are reaching there right now. Yes people got to 60 on levia right now using the current fatigue system.
    D) frustration that actually dies down once the system is explained to them + some time when they get to see how the fatigue system works.

    Ive gathered about 19 random ratings on their initial thoughts about fatigue and for players whom have played at least a week, their rating on the fatigue system. All scores are out of 5

    Average for initial thoughts is 2.8 with the most common rating with 3s or 2s with general comments of dislike or indifference.
    Average for later thoughts is 3.8 with the most common rating of 4s and 5s.

    I found that most of the comments have no problem at all actually. The people I asked were mostly from EME chat so I wouldnt really have a idea on whom is OBT or a CBT. I generally avoided asking older players since they already know the system and generally are either indifferent or think fatigue system is satisfactory.

    Also whenever someone complained about reaching fatigue limit, after offering methods to reduce fatigue, it was resolved and im assuming theyre working on it now.

    Stuff like pvp 30 wins awarding 120 stamina pot, account sharable. If you are hardcore, do it on 5 alts for a grand total of 600 additional fatigue being removed. Novice agent promotion achievement awards a 30 stamina pot, also account storagable, if done on 5 alts, thats easily 150 fatigue removed.

    ----------------------One char I with 5 Alts
    Pvp 30 wins:--------120------------600
    Novice agent:-------30-------------150
    Novice box:---------120------------N/A
    If Levia:---------------60-------------N/A
    So if you solo and are levia, you can get a total of 330 fatigue removed day one. If you do not pvp, 210
    If you add in alts, a total of 1080 fatigue removed. 360 if you do not pvp at all.

    These are time consuming tasks that definitely keep you occupied and generally most people I suggest this knowledge, do not mind making alts. Especially the 150 one, thats easy and only takes 1-2 days considering u have a whole week before fatigue is reset to 0. Which by the time next week hits, they will have 1190 usable stamina. That could also explain why the general scores after a week playtime are generally in the 3-5 range. Its a lot of work to use all that stamina.

    I will continue to collect data and hey maybe in a weeks time everyones initial opinion will follow the same trend, perhaps even yours.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @TheUsernameIsTaken said:

    A: More would be inclined to pve
    B: Market is essentially a game to not be undercut. More supply from fatigue being removed will result in devalued items.
    C: Some are reaching there right now. Yes people got to 60 on levia right now using the current fatigue system.
    D) frustration that actually dies down once the system is explained to them + some time when they get to see how the fatigue system works.

    A: How would a total increase in players decrease PvP activity? Why would PvP suddenly decrease if fatigue was removed?
    B: You don't NEED fatigue to have a successful economy, look at plenty of other MMOs, WoW FFXIV, or even non-MMO games that thrive around active trading and instance-style play like Path of Exile.
    C: Okay, there is some amount of people getting to endgame, what about the players that get turned off by fatigue and turn away?
    D : Why ought players need to get word of mouth advice to simply play the game more or have to wait to see how it work out? Seems like a flawed system considering the problem is about waiting for fatigue x.x

    Ive gathered about 19 random ratings on their initial thoughts about fatigue and for players whom have played at least a week, their rating on the fatigue system. All scores are out of 5

    >

    Average for initial thoughts is 2.8 with the most common rating with 3s or 2s with general comments of dislike or indifference.
    Average for later thoughts is 3.8 with the most common rating of 4s and 5s.
    I found that most of the comments have no problem at all actually. The people I asked were mostly from EME chat so I wouldnt really have a idea on whom is OBT or a CBT. I generally avoided asking older players since they already know the system and generally are either indifferent or think fatigue system is satisfactory.

    The problem isn't about the people who are still playing, it's about the people who get turned off within that first week, this is kind of a biased sample both in the targeting and out of convenience sampling that isn't representative of all potential players.

    Also whenever someone complained about reaching fatigue limit, after offering methods to reduce fatigue, it was resolved and im assuming theyre working on it now.

    Stuff like pvp 30 wins awarding 120 stamina pot, account sharable. If you are hardcore, do it on 5 alts for a grand total of 600 additional fatigue being removed. Novice agent promotion achievement awards a 30 stamina pot, also account storagable, if done on 5 alts, thats easily 150 fatigue removed.

    ----------------------One char I with 5 Alts
    Pvp 30 wins:--------120------------600
    Novice agent:-------30-------------150
    Novice box:---------120------------N/A
    If Levia:---------------60-------------N/A
    So if you solo and are levia, you can get a total of 330 fatigue removed day one. If you do not pvp, 210
    If you add in alts, a total of 1080 fatigue removed. 360 if you do not pvp at all.

    These are time consuming tasks that definitely keep you occupied and generally most people I suggest this knowledge, do not mind making alts. Especially the 150 one, thats easy and only takes 1-2 days considering u have a whole week before fatigue is reset to 0. Which by the time next week hits, they will have 1190 usable stamina. That could also explain why the general scores after a week playtime are generally in the 3-5 range. Its a lot of work to use all that stamina.

    Again, now we're getting playstyles forced down our throats again if we simply want to play on a single character. (If we want more stamina we need alts, or have to do pvp) -- I'm not looking for a job to just play one character, I just want to sit down and enjoy the game without having to feel artificially blocked by a system. :x

  • Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:
    A: How would a total increase in players decrease PvP activity? Why would PvP suddenly decrease if fatigue was removed?
    B: You don't NEED fatigue to have a successful economy, look at plenty of other MMOs, WoW FFXIV, or even non-MMO games that thrive around active trading and instance-style play like Path of Exile.
    C: Okay, there is some amount of people getting to endgame, what about the players that get turned off by fatigue and turn away?
    D : Why ought players need to get word of mouth advice to simply play the game more or have to wait to see how it work out? Seems like a flawed system considering the problem is about waiting for fatigue x.x

    >

    The problem isn't about the people who are still playing, it's about the people who get turned off within that first week, this is kind of a biased sample both in the targeting and out of convenience sampling that isn't representative of all potential players.

    Again, now we're getting playstyles forced down our throats again if we simply want to play on a single character. (If we want more stamina we need alts, or have to do pvp) -- I'm not looking for a job to just play one character, I just want to sit down and enjoy the game without having to feel artificially blocked by a system. :x

    A, B require actual experience in the game or at least understanding of what its like in the game. C well it is a shame that a person can be turned off in a very short span and thats normal, I got turned off by Archeage quite easily within the first day. Still a large amount of players are at endgame already, if you consider cbt players and these ppl do help new players with information and crews. D again this is only concerned with the leveling frustration of new players. Which I suggest a free stamina potion if 3 hours have been played for at least.

    I did say the data is only accounting the 2nd part for players whom have already played for a week. Like I said I need a full week before asking their current thoughts of the fatigue system. If obt players do not respond or have quit, Ill consider their current scores as 1s.

    Playstyles well cant really make anyone happy and after trying to converse with you to figure out suggestions that are doable, realistic and actually a priority. Its not on the priority list or im sure others can view this as catering to special snowflakes for a game that has such a good cast of characters.

  • Daily Fatigue

    Sure it sucks that the first week sucks that you only have 170 fatigue or whatever but the process to level up has to have its stopping points to not let them eat trough content to fast and to have time to enjoy the story if interested. However this will not be a issue after the first week and once you reach our current End game content that will be the point where you wont even know what stamina is coz well you will never eat trough it fully. It simply has to stay the game was build around it and i don't see a problem with it. At first i hated the weekly stamina system but it ended up Fine.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Natorious said:
    Sure it sucks that the first week sucks that you only have 170 fatigue or whatever but the process to level up has to have its stopping points to not let them eat trough content to fast and to have time to enjoy the story if interested. However this will not be a issue after the first week and once you reach our current End game content that will be the point where you wont even know what stamina is coz well you will never eat trough it fully. It simply has to stay the game was build around it and i don't see a problem with it. At first i hated the weekly stamina system but it ended up Fine.

    This is sort of my point, vets are acting like stamina doesn't matter. what's wrong with simply just removing its impact on new players? They're the ones being hit the hardest, and they're the ones receiving their first impressions.

    Those that want to enjoy the story will take the time to enjoy it. However, even those that enjoy the story for just one character find themselves at a brick wall fairly quickly on the first day.

    Also what's the problem with people leveling up too fast -- or at all for that matter once they hit cap? Why does leveling "[have] to have its stopping points?"

    It makes absolutely no sense to both claim that "stamina will not be an issue after the first week," then at the same time say "it simply has to stay." -- What purpose do we have in stopping new players from playing whatever character they want for however long they want?

  • @TheUsernameIsTaken said:
    Playstyles well cant really make anyone happy and after trying to converse with you to figure out suggestions that are doable, realistic and actually a priority. Its not on the priority list or im sure others can view this as catering to special snowflakes for a game that has such a good cast of characters.

    You claim to be helpful to other players but don't bother explaining how more players reduces PVP activity or directly destroys an economy where so many other game don't need a fatigue system to have one?

    Removing a wall that stops players from playing is
    A: doable
    B: Realistic
    C: Why would improving first impression NOT be a priority of some kind? It's potential customers.

    So many people on this very thread are mentioning how after the first week it doesn't matter -- so why ought a game give any kind of incentive for a new player to lose interest or get frustrated by slapping them in the face with a "you can't play anymore". And like I said before this isn't "Catering" in any way. This is simply removing a block that new players are thrown into that typically leaves bad impressions in western gamers.

    How exactly would your experience with this game be destroyed if new players could just... play -- without having to make several alts?

  • NatoriousNatorious Member
    edited December 2017
    Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    @Natorious said:
    Sure it sucks that the first week sucks that you only have 170 fatigue or whatever but the process to level up has to have its stopping points to not let them eat trough content to fast and to have time to enjoy the story if interested. However this will not be a issue after the first week and once you reach our current End game content that will be the point where you wont even know what stamina is coz well you will never eat trough it fully. It simply has to stay the game was build around it and i don't see a problem with it. At first i hated the weekly stamina system but it ended up Fine.

    This is sort of my point, vets are acting like stamina doesn't matter. what's wrong with simply just removing its impact on new players? They're the ones being hit the hardest, and they're the ones receiving their first impressions.

    Those that want to enjoy the story will take the time to enjoy it. However, even those that enjoy the story for just one character find themselves at a brick wall fairly quickly on the first day.

    Also what's the problem with people leveling up too fast -- or at all for that matter once they hit cap? Why does leveling "[have] to have its stopping points?"

    It makes absolutely no sense to both claim that "stamina will not be an issue after the first week," then at the same time say "it simply has to stay." -- What purpose do we have in stopping new players from playing whatever character they want for however long they want?

    We went through the same thing? our stamina was daily and still is when we create a new character it took us the same amount of time that it will take you to level up. I don't see the point where New players have to just breeze through the game like its nothing.It has its stopping point to progress, Read the story and play more then 1 character. I mean everyone had the same starting ground if there would be a stamina removal now why wasn't it removed while in CBT so we could have the same playing field like new players could have. C'mon man

  • @JJ4NH45H73 said:
    C: Why would improving first impression NOT be a priority of some kind? It's potential customers.

    This. I know a few friends, especially streamers, that refuse to touch this game at all due to the barrier. They want to stream the game to the point they want to. You're slapping people giving FREE ATTENTION to the game in the face. For the rest of us... it just ends up looking like some crappy way of justifying forcing people to play harder difficulties so they'll buy potions/continues/whatever. It's not a good look at all for the game.

    Think of it like this: Instead of playing this game, and buying skins, and character slots, and really deeply digging into Closers, I quit the first day, immediately went out and bought Season Pass 2 for Street Fighter V, bought a bunch of action games that'll happily let me play as much as I want. Meanwhile, the last MMO I got hold of that really made me want to support it, Marvel Heroes, which I spent $700+ in, is now dead, and now I have a bunch of money I have no place to use, except on extra games, and I'm not going to support a game that doesn't show me some love. Tsunderes are overrated.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    We went through the same thing? our stamina was daily and still is when we create a new character it took us the same amount of time that it will take you to level up. I don't see the point where New players have to just breeze through the game like its nothing.It has its stopping point to progress, Read the story and play more then 1 character. I mean everyone had the same starting ground if there would be a stamina removal now why wasn't it removed while in CBT so we could have the same playing field like new players could have. C'mon man

    What right should other people have to tell me how I should enjoy a game? If i "breeze through the game" maybe they should add other elements to provide other ways of preventing me from doing that, Maybe have challenging fights that require better gear or other way of providing an actually satisfying climb than me simply facerolling over my keyboard to clear entire zones?

    Likewise I don't see the point of blocking players from "breezing through the game" if they can already breeze through content -- they just have to do it over a few days because they are FORCED to stop playing rather than having something actually interesting like a difficulty spike.

    Furthermore, this game is still in beta, and even if it wasn't its not like they HAVE to preserve everything like a statue. It's not about what you have suffered to get to where you are, it's about building a larger playerbase, build a more thriving community, remove elements that discourage players from playing. This isn't a system that provides a natural challenge, or a difficult fight that all players have to overcome. This is a system that forces players to stop playing, sure you experienced it, but that doesn't make the system good, or just, and definitely not a good enough reason to keep it.

    That's like saying an MMO like World of Warcraft, where in its vanilla days took weeks to go from 1 to 60, that every player NOW should still have to experience the torturous grind from 1 to 60. "Because I experienced it, they should experience it too" is a poor foundation for an argument.

  • Daily Fatigue

    In the same vein, what right do you have to tell others how to develop their game? There are plenty of fish in the sea, why do you feel the need to genetically modify a salmon into a tuna? Just eat a natural tuna instead.

  • IzaOkamiIzaOkami Member
    edited December 2017
    Remove Stamina

    Let's be honest here. People saying the current system is fine, are folks who barely have any time or are in the endgame zone and don't really care about others. This is the pool of ignorant people who don't understand how things truly are heading.

    Those who do understand know why daily fatigue reset is a must. Way more pros than cons, fact. Weekly fatigue specially with ACCOUNT fatigue has way too many cons than pros. IF you cannot dedicate the time or do not want to, oh well and fine, but you are the very small 10% compared to the 90% who either have the time or want to dedicate a ton of time TO this game.

    Also, yes this is a very solid fact : People who stream games will not even dare waste their time for this game since they will force limit themselves, a lot of NA streamers already voiced this out. KR streamers do not count because there is few of them compared to the vast amount of NA streamers that want but cannot dedicate their time to this game due to barriers.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Lihzakivi said:
    In the same vein, what right do you have to tell others how to develop their game? There are plenty of fish in the sea, why do you feel the need to genetically modify a salmon into a tuna? Just eat a natural tuna instead.

    Because the quality of a game is founded upon feedback and criticism. It's their job to tailor their game to bring in more potential players (customers) They're a business, it's their job to.

    Meanwhile it isn't my job to force myself to enjoy a certain playstyle that I already do not enjoy.

    Additionally, this is not a reason why fatigue is beneficial or detrimental to the game, this is simply telling me off because I have a problem with something already implemented.

    -- and I wouldn't ever modify a salmon to taste like a tuna -- I enjoy diversity. However, given the resources (and subsistence fishing permits) I could harvest all the tuna or salmon I could ever hope to satiate myself with.

    Point being, I don't want the game to be like another game. I want the game to be just how it is, just without limiting my feast of salmon to one small bite per day.

  • Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    We went through the same thing? our stamina was daily and still is when we create a new character it took us the same amount of time that it will take you to level up. I don't see the point where New players have to just breeze through the game like its nothing.It has its stopping point to progress, Read the story and play more then 1 character. I mean everyone had the same starting ground if there would be a stamina removal now why wasn't it removed while in CBT so we could have the same playing field like new players could have. C'mon man

    What right should other people have to tell me how I should enjoy a game? If i "breeze through the game" maybe they should add other elements to provide other ways of preventing me from doing that, Maybe have challenging fights that require better gear or other way of providing an actually satisfying climb than me simply facerolling over my keyboard to clear entire zones?

    Likewise I don't see the point of blocking players from "breezing through the game" if they can already breeze through content -- they just have to do it over a few days because they are FORCED to stop playing rather than having something actually interesting like a difficulty spike.

    Furthermore, this game is still in beta, and even if it wasn't its not like they HAVE to preserve everything like a statue. It's not about what you have suffered to get to where you are, it's about building a larger playerbase, build a more thriving community, remove elements that discourage players from playing. This isn't a system that provides a natural challenge, or a difficult fight that all players have to overcome. This is a system that forces players to stop playing, sure you experienced it, but that doesn't make the system good, or just, and definitely not a good enough reason to keep it.

    That's like saying an MMO like World of Warcraft, where in its vanilla days took weeks to go from 1 to 60, that every player NOW should still have to experience the torturous grind from 1 to 60. "Because I experienced it, they should experience it too" is a poor foundation for an argument.

    So basically the game comes to west and lets just remove everything and ruin everything from Economy to drop rates because we want to play more i get ya Lets look at the JP servers you have unlimited fatigue there, you open the black market what happens? you will be blown of the Inflation do we want that happen here that a 2* costumes will cost hundreds million credits? how the new players will feel about that? Will you farm for a drop a month? since removing fatigue will have its impact on Drop rates they wont let you just farm infinatelly.EXP for gaining level will Increase significantly and they will need to make tweaks to the story because we can play 24/7? How will the new players feel about that? I mean yeah it would be cool if you can farm 24/7 but the stamina system is here for a good reason.

    Yes game is in Open beta if you really don't like the system then how about trying to find a sweet spot for everyone? not just for those who don't like it? How would you manage the Market place, Drop Rates, exp rates? I mean its easy to say STAMINA SUCKS, and New players that and this we all were NEW players and did the same thing, we were FORCED to stop playing and we managed to reach our goals if we don't like a feature we gave up suggestions not just tell them this suck and that sucks. And Fix remove and etc.

  • Daily Fatigue

    I just remembered!

    Merry xmas and a happy new year

    According to biweekly updates, we may see a update on the 26th or the 2nd of next year. Until then players will abide by this fatigue system until EME feels a need to change the system to fine tune the quality of life, that is if its even needed in the first place. Which may take a few days, maybe a few weeks, perhaps months, maybe never. Happy grinding!

    Until then, use those weeks to give the game a good loving and gather some knowledge of the game.

  • Daily Fatigue

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    We went through the same thing? our stamina was daily and still is when we create a new character it took us the same amount of time that it will take you to level up. I don't see the point where New players have to just breeze through the game like its nothing.It has its stopping point to progress, Read the story and play more then 1 character. I mean everyone had the same starting ground if there would be a stamina removal now why wasn't it removed while in CBT so we could have the same playing field like new players could have. C'mon man

    What right should other people have to tell me how I should enjoy a game? If i "breeze through the game" maybe they should add other elements to provide other ways of preventing me from doing that, Maybe have challenging fights that require better gear or other way of providing an actually satisfying climb than me simply facerolling over my keyboard to clear entire zones?

    Likewise I don't see the point of blocking players from "breezing through the game" if they can already breeze through content -- they just have to do it over a few days because they are FORCED to stop playing rather than having something actually interesting like a difficulty spike.

    Furthermore, this game is still in beta, and even if it wasn't its not like they HAVE to preserve everything like a statue. It's not about what you have suffered to get to where you are, it's about building a larger playerbase, build a more thriving community, remove elements that discourage players from playing. This isn't a system that provides a natural challenge, or a difficult fight that all players have to overcome. This is a system that forces players to stop playing, sure you experienced it, but that doesn't make the system good, or just, and definitely not a good enough reason to keep it.

    That's like saying an MMO like World of Warcraft, where in its vanilla days took weeks to go from 1 to 60, that every player NOW should still have to experience the torturous grind from 1 to 60. "Because I experienced it, they should experience it too" is a poor foundation for an argument.

    So basically the game comes to west and lets just remove everything and ruin everything from Economy to drop rates because we want to play more i get ya Lets look at the JP servers you have unlimited fatigue there, you open the black market what happens? you will be blown of the Inflation do we want that happen here that a 2* costumes will cost hundreds million credits? how the new players will feel about that? Will you farm for a drop a month? since removing fatigue will have its impact on Drop rates they wont let you just farm infinatelly.EXP for gaining level will Increase significantly and they will need to make tweaks to the story because we can play 24/7? How will the new players feel about that? I mean yeah it would be cool if you can farm 24/7 but the stamina system is here for a good reason.

    Yes game is in Open beta if you really don't like the system then how about trying to find a sweet spot for everyone? not just for those who don't like it? How would you manage the Market place, Drop Rates, exp rates? I mean its easy to say STAMINA SUCKS, and New players that and this we all were NEW players and did the same thing, we were FORCED to stop playing and we managed to reach our goals if we don't like a feature we gave up suggestions not just tell them this suck and that sucks. And Fix remove and etc.

    Would be funny to see one piece of 2Stars costume at a price of 300M and crafting mats at a price of 1 G. I think at that point not only new players will leave but all whales/dolphins cause nobody will buy their cash shop items in the Auction House at insane prices of 500M for a piece.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Natorious said:
    So basically the game comes to west and lets just remove everything and ruin everything from Economy to drop rates because we want to play more i get ya Lets look at the JP servers you have unlimited fatigue there, you open the black market what happens? you will be blown of the Inflation do we want that happen here that a 2* costumes will cost hundreds million credits? how the new players will feel about that? Will you farm for a drop a month? since removing fatigue will have its impact on Drop rates they wont let you just farm infinatelly.EXP for gaining level will Increase significantly and they will need to make tweaks to the story because we can play 24/7? How will the new players feel about that? I mean yeah it would be cool if you can farm 24/7 but the stamina system is here for a good reason.

    Yes game is in Open beta if you really don't like the system then how about trying to find a sweet spot for everyone? not just for those who don't like it? How would you manage the Market place, Drop Rates, exp rates? I mean its easy to say STAMINA SUCKS, and New players that and this we all were NEW players and did the same thing, we were FORCED to stop playing and we managed to reach our goals if we don't like a feature we gave up suggestions not just tell them this suck and that sucks. And Fix remove and etc.

    Admittedly I like bits and pieces of this response. It at least directly highlights specific issues that will happen if fatigue is removed.

    Economy:
    Admittedly I really dislike how the blackmarket is setup -- I can only place items within a certain range? This epic weapon I found can only be thrown up for ~8600 credits? -- and I can't even just donate that same item to a friend because it MUST be traded on the black market? And I would agree that a new player opening up the BM and seeing unreachable items is discouraging, but if a player enjoys the game mechanics, the story, and indulges themselves in a thriving community, this doesn't seem like a game-destroying issue but definitely one that I agree would need addressing. Typically in games with strong economies, I may not farm a month for a drop, but i'm willing to find a niche in the market to make a profit and eventually buy it -- you typically save time that way.

    Discussing economy reworks is quite complex and is a lot of development/rework on the dev side of things (IE: costly) But given infinite resources my favorite system to help combat this kind of inflation is something similar to that of Path of Exile, where players of any levels can acquire items that even end-game characters value. New players sell these items to the more wealthy players, and can afford the more relevant items to their level / challenge. -- but there are always going to exist items at a luxury tier (Particularly rare or min/maxing items), items typically unobtainable without dedication or luck to acquire -- as I am sure that already exists in the game in it's current state (Given randomness of loot boxes)

    Also with the prices on items, for the most part, being chosen by me on the black market -- i'm curious how items end up in the hundreds of millions unless the devs let the system do that. -- Again not a problem directly with fatigue, but rather with a poor economy / management.

    Increase in grind:
    This is something entirely separate from fatigue removal, but you're suggesting it is something that MUST be if it were removed. The issue you're proposing is typically suppressed by keeping daily incentives or rewards. These kinds of thing exist in practically every MMO, Rested experience, daily quests, instance lockouts, etc. It's nothing new and it works for PLENTY of other games.

    Tweaks to the story?
    ... What? this sounds like a made-up reason. Why would removing fatigue change the plot or the characters?

    Finding a sweet spot:
    Part of my reason to coming to the forums -- I had no idea why anyone would defend fatigue, thus why I started prodding. -- and again, "You should experience it because I did" is a poor reason -- not everyone is going to put up with that. I'd be happy if I could build a crew, invite some of my RL friends into the game, but from past experiences with them in games with similar systems, they were all turned off by the hard cap of playtime and just played something else -- many players feel this way, just look at the front page of any forum this game belongs to.

  • @HXKLGAYHamster said:

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    @Natorious said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    We went through the same thing? our stamina was daily and still is when we create a new character it took us the same amount of time that it will take you to level up. I don't see the point where New players have to just breeze through the game like its nothing.It has its stopping point to progress, Read the story and play more then 1 character. I mean everyone had the same starting ground if there would be a stamina removal now why wasn't it removed while in CBT so we could have the same playing field like new players could have. C'mon man

    What right should other people have to tell me how I should enjoy a game? If i "breeze through the game" maybe they should add other elements to provide other ways of preventing me from doing that, Maybe have challenging fights that require better gear or other way of providing an actually satisfying climb than me simply facerolling over my keyboard to clear entire zones?

    Likewise I don't see the point of blocking players from "breezing through the game" if they can already breeze through content -- they just have to do it over a few days because they are FORCED to stop playing rather than having something actually interesting like a difficulty spike.

    Furthermore, this game is still in beta, and even if it wasn't its not like they HAVE to preserve everything like a statue. It's not about what you have suffered to get to where you are, it's about building a larger playerbase, build a more thriving community, remove elements that discourage players from playing. This isn't a system that provides a natural challenge, or a difficult fight that all players have to overcome. This is a system that forces players to stop playing, sure you experienced it, but that doesn't make the system good, or just, and definitely not a good enough reason to keep it.

    That's like saying an MMO like World of Warcraft, where in its vanilla days took weeks to go from 1 to 60, that every player NOW should still have to experience the torturous grind from 1 to 60. "Because I experienced it, they should experience it too" is a poor foundation for an argument.

    So basically the game comes to west and lets just remove everything and ruin everything from Economy to drop rates because we want to play more i get ya Lets look at the JP servers you have unlimited fatigue there, you open the black market what happens? you will be blown of the Inflation do we want that happen here that a 2* costumes will cost hundreds million credits? how the new players will feel about that? Will you farm for a drop a month? since removing fatigue will have its impact on Drop rates they wont let you just farm infinatelly.EXP for gaining level will Increase significantly and they will need to make tweaks to the story because we can play 24/7? How will the new players feel about that? I mean yeah it would be cool if you can farm 24/7 but the stamina system is here for a good reason.

    Yes game is in Open beta if you really don't like the system then how about trying to find a sweet spot for everyone? not just for those who don't like it? How would you manage the Market place, Drop Rates, exp rates? I mean its easy to say STAMINA SUCKS, and New players that and this we all were NEW players and did the same thing, we were FORCED to stop playing and we managed to reach our goals if we don't like a feature we gave up suggestions not just tell them this suck and that sucks. And Fix remove and etc.

    Would be funny to see one piece of 2Stars costume at a price of 300M and crafting mats at a price of 1 G. I think at that point not only new players will leave but all whales/dolphins cause nobody will buy their cash shop items in the Auction House at insane prices of 500M for a piece.

    So basically fatigue acts as a blanket for a flawed economy? Still unsure how this would affect new players that are still leveling.

  • Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:
    Because the quality of a game is founded upon feedback and criticism. It's their job to tailor their game to bring in more potential players (customers) They're a business, it's their job to.

    Meanwhile it isn't my job to force myself to enjoy a certain playstyle that I already do not enjoy.

    Except their job is to cater to a specific core playerbase, not to every random goyim passing by. It's by far more viable to please a core group demographic, as opposed to offending multiple parties by branching out too far.

    And if you can't enjoy said playstyle, no one is forcing you to stay and enjoy it either. As you said, there are PLENTY of other games.

    On another note, I also want to point out this recurring argument about how fatigue systems don't slide in the West is absolutely outdated, and anyone making this argument should piss right off. What year do you even think it is lmao, it isn't like stamina systems are new, they've been around for years now, even in the West.

  • Daily Fatigue

    Fun fact both PoE and Warframe ( most famous examples of You can play! 24/7) ALSO have limits. Cant quote what is a limit in PoE (my friend played thousands of hours, gotta ask him first) but in Warfame not only you have daily, hourly, monthly limited alerts/quest, you also cant progress without thousands of thousands hours of crazy grinding cause of insanely low drop rates and RNG.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    Fun fact both PoE and Warframe ( most famous examples of You can play! 24/7) ALSO have limits. Cant quote what is a limit in PoE (my friend played thousands of hours, gotta ask him first) but in Warfame not only you have daily, hourly, monthly limited alerts/quest, you also cant progress without thousands of thousands hours of crazy grinding cause of insanely low drop rates and RNG.

    I play both games. PoE ~750 hours, Warframe ~1200 hours.

    The only daily limits that I can recall in Path of Exile are daily quests from reputation-based NPCs. These NPCs can be found normally in nearly every zone (Just excluding boss arenas or zones that are story-based / non combat areas). The daily quests simply guarantee a quest once a day that rewards more than the usual amount (2.5x multiplier). End-game bosses can be done as much as they want, but are a very real challenge for most players and builds. However in order to do end-game bosses you usually need items that basically open the door to do them. And of course, certain bosses are much more expensive to attempt (IE breachlords) than cheaper ones (like Atziri).

    There's no daily/weekly/monthly limits on drops nor diminishing returns for that matter (The only diminishing returns are for high level players on low-level zones in regards to currency drop rates.) There's no temporal limit on the access to any content in Path of Exile, there's just daily bonus on reputation.

    Warframe does have temporal limits. Being Sorties, Raids, Syndicate, and Alerts if you want to count those (time-limited events that happen numerous times throughout the day, so technically there is a limit on how many you can do as only so many spawn in one day)

    I'm not aware of any hourly or monthly hard-limits on anything.

    I feel that the progression grind is a tad over-exaggerated, having access to nearly all the playable content (missions) by around MR 8 -- doesn't take THAT long, and access to any equipment by rank ~13 and any mods (rivens) by rank 15-16 (Which indeed does take time).

    Also fun fact, unless you want to do survival or something silly endless mission for 2 hours, you don't need best-in-slot gear for warframe -- and many players enjoy the charm in having something to do nearly 24/7 with the massive amount of content that gets thrown into that game. Warframe is basically a game about grinding -- if you had every item in that game, there is literally no reason to play it aside from simply enjoying the gameplay because usually your objective is to acquire more things, and all bosses are easily defeatable with mediocre gear -- but I can also play that game to my heart's desire, sure I can't get rewards from sorties more than once a day, but I COULD do it again if I wanted (help out a friend), and there's also plenty of other content I could do to keep myself entertained and enjoy the game (Grinding new warframes, resources for foundry, farm parts for Ki'Teer / plat)

    I should make it clear I don't have problems with limiting content, I understand the need for it as it provides a steady pace of progression, typically targeted at the end-game player base. I just have issues with systems that limit the new player-base from even playing -- And stubbornly, I don't accept the "just play a different character" argument because typically I like enjoying experiencing the whole journey, and if I enjoyed the journey, i'll probably want to experience it again with a different style of some sort AFTER I am already immersed and attached to the game (Which is what dragged me into Warframe and Path of Exile)

  • NatoriousNatorious Member
    edited December 2017
    Daily Fatigue

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:

    @Natorious said:
    So basically the game comes to west and lets just remove everything and ruin everything from Economy to drop rates because we want to play more i get ya Lets look at the JP servers you have unlimited fatigue there, you open the black market what happens? you will be blown of the Inflation do we want that happen here that a 2* costumes will cost hundreds million credits? how the new players will feel about that? Will you farm for a drop a month? since removing fatigue will have its impact on Drop rates they wont let you just farm infinatelly.EXP for gaining level will Increase significantly and they will need to make tweaks to the story because we can play 24/7? How will the new players feel about that? I mean yeah it would be cool if you can farm 24/7 but the stamina system is here for a good reason.

    Yes game is in Open beta if you really don't like the system then how about trying to find a sweet spot for everyone? not just for those who don't like it? How would you manage the Market place, Drop Rates, exp rates? I mean its easy to say STAMINA SUCKS, and New players that and this we all were NEW players and did the same thing, we were FORCED to stop playing and we managed to reach our goals if we don't like a feature we gave up suggestions not just tell them this suck and that sucks. And Fix remove and etc.

    Admittedly I like bits and pieces of this response. It at least directly highlights specific issues that will happen if fatigue is removed.

    Economy:
    Admittedly I really dislike how the blackmarket is setup -- I can only place items within a certain range? This epic weapon I found can only be thrown up for ~8600 credits? -- and I can't even just donate that same item to a friend because it MUST be traded on the black market? And I would agree that a new player opening up the BM and seeing unreachable items is discouraging, but if a player enjoys the game mechanics, the story, and indulges themselves in a thriving community, this doesn't seem like a game-destroying issue but definitely one that I agree would need addressing. Typically in games with strong economies, I may not farm a month for a drop, but i'm willing to find a niche in the market to make a profit and eventually buy it -- you typically save time that way.

    Discussing economy reworks is quite complex and is a lot of development/rework on the dev side of things (IE: costly) But given infinite resources my favorite system to help combat this kind of inflation is something similar to that of Path of Exile, where players of any levels can acquire items that even end-game characters value. New players sell these items to the more wealthy players, and can afford the more relevant items to their level / challenge. -- but there are always going to exist items at a luxury tier (Particularly rare or min/maxing items), items typically unobtainable without dedication or luck to acquire -- as I am sure that already exists in the game in it's current state (Given randomness of loot boxes)

    Also with the prices on items, for the most part, being chosen by me on the black market -- i'm curious how items end up in the hundreds of millions unless the devs let the system do that. -- Again not a problem directly with fatigue, but rather with a poor economy / management.

    Increase in grind:
    This is something entirely separate from fatigue removal, but you're suggesting it is something that MUST be if it were removed. The issue you're proposing is typically suppressed by keeping daily incentives or rewards. These kinds of thing exist in practically every MMO, Rested experience, daily quests, instance lockouts, etc. It's nothing new and it works for PLENTY of other games.

    **> Tweaks to the story?

    ... What? this sounds like a made-up reason. Why would removing fatigue change the plot or the characters?**

    Finding a sweet spot:
    Part of my reason to coming to the forums -- I had no idea why anyone would defend fatigue, thus why I started prodding. -- and again, "You should experience it because I did" is a poor reason -- not everyone is going to put up with that. I'd be happy if I could build a crew, invite some of my RL friends into the game, but from past experiences with them in games with similar systems, they were all turned off by the hard cap of playtime and just played something else -- many players feel this way, just look at the front page of any forum this game belongs to.

    I was talking about EXP increase with the fatigue removal you cant expect a developer just let you go trough everything within 12 hours non stop playing, Removing fatigue will cost you EXP and while you have quests related to the story they will need to tweak it and significantly increase the quest amount to allow you to level up without repeating the same dungeon without a quest. Which again will be a turn off to a new player coz of it repetitive manner.

    The economy surelly can destroy games and the Japanese server of closers is a prime example, The game isn't purely build around dropping the gear so you wont see much gear being sold on the black market except few pieces of gear that aren't even out yet on the NA server. The gearing system is balanced out with stamina with daily entries to prevent getting BiS gear within a few hours and its made of dropping a core gear piece then upgrade it to a BiS piece via materials you collect which again would be another reason of a huge increase since a player can play as much as he can. Its not like that the stamina system is here to torture people that you cant play anymore, Hell you can there are spec ops you can run on daily basis which allow you to progress even further in to the game by gathering materials hell you even can get a Stamina potion there, Exp coins to craft enhancing stuffs credit boxes cosmetics, Event dungeons take 0 fatigue you can run them everyday also. The game itself might not be fun progresion wise until you reach lv 56 and experience the our current endgame where stamina becomes something pointless and you will most likely never even use it up through the week.

    Yeah Stamina systems aren't meant for everyone i can tell you that. If enmasse would take a risk and remove the fatigue the and all of that happen they will lose more than their will gain by losing its core base.

    And also its not poor reason tho the game is out in Open beta not even a week you cant just change how the progression works within few weeks with later caps sure let them catch up faster it's not just the right time.

    Merry christmas O/

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Natorious said:

    I was talking about EXP increase with the fatigue removal you cant expect a developer just let you go trough everything within 12 hours non stop playing, Removing fatigue will cost you EXP and while you have quests related to the story they will need to tweak it and significantly increase the quest amount to allow you to level up without repeating the same dungeon without a quest. Which again will be a turn off to a new player coz of it repetitive manner.

    The economy surelly can destroy games and the Japanese server of closers is a prime example, The game isn't purely build around dropping the gear so you wont see much gear being sold on the black market except few pieces of gear that aren't even out yet on the NA server. The gearing system is balanced out with stamina with daily entries to prevent getting BiS gear within a few hours and its made of dropping a core gear piece then upgrade it to a BiS piece via materials you collect which again would be another reason of a huge increase since a player can play as much as he can. Its not like that the stamina system is here to torture people that you cant play anymore, Hell you can there are spec ops you can run on daily basis which allow you to progress even further in to the game by gathering materials hell you even can get a Stamina potion there, Exp coins to craft enhancing stuffs credit boxes cosmetics, Event dungeons take 0 fatigue you can run them everyday also. The game itself might not be fun progresion wise until you reach lv 56 and experience the our current endgame where stamina becomes something pointless and you will most likely never even use it up through the week.

    Yeah Stamina systems aren't meant for everyone i can tell you that. If enmasse would take a risk and remove the fatigue the and all of that happen they will lose more than their will gain by losing its core base.

    And also its not poor reason tho the game is out in Open beta not even a week you cant just change how the progression works within few weeks with later caps sure let them catch up faster it's not just the right time.

    Merry christmas O/

    Why is leveling 1-60 in 12 hours a bad thing? Another player earlier in this post mentioned it was possible in just a few days (Using grindable recovery potions). It seems rather improbable that a game is going to die because the 1-60 journey is made faster because fatigue was removed.

    And with daily entries blocking quick access to the BiS, why is fatigue such a major issue -- especially when people keep saying until you reach "endgame where stamina becomes something pointless."

    Fatigue seems to be a limiting factor only for new players -- as it has no impact on the end-game player base. And from what I gathered so far through experience and intuition in this thread, the market doesn't seem like something even needs to touched until I hit the end-game (level ~40, still breezing through dungeons, including the daily entry stuff).

    It just seems irrational to defend fatigue so adamantly when the only effect it has are players leveling up new characters, since end-game players aren't really limited by it.

    -- Merry christmas ^^

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @Lihzakivi said:

    @JJ4NH45H73 said:
    Because the quality of a game is founded upon feedback and criticism. It's their job to tailor their game to bring in more potential players (customers) They're a business, it's their job to.

    Meanwhile it isn't my job to force myself to enjoy a certain playstyle that I already do not enjoy.

    Except their job is to cater to a specific core playerbase, not to every random goyim passing by. It's by far more viable to please a core group demographic, as opposed to offending multiple parties by branching out too far.

    And if you can't enjoy said playstyle, no one is forcing you to stay and enjoy it either. As you said, there are PLENTY of other games.

    On another note, I also want to point out this recurring argument about how fatigue systems don't slide in the West is absolutely outdated, and anyone making this argument should piss right off. What year do you even think it is lmao, it isn't like stamina systems are new, they've been around for years now, even in the West.

    If they WANT to target a niche player base, that's fine. But without an interview with the developers and directly asking them that question, we will never know if that desire is a fact or a myth.

    If the only way to develop a game is to target a niche, how do certain games end up with millions of players?

    I'm here to provide feedback and gather more information about the purpose of the system, if you don't like it, just ignore me.

  • Daily Fatigue

    Honestly, why are you even telling all of your thought to us (fellow players) when you could be writing a formal letter of inquiry/demand to Naddic Games. I mean criticizing the Fatigue system here on forums wont do any good and is kind of pointless. If Koreans Devs dont decided to remove/change it there is not much to be done. Publishers can force them to change but most likely according to legal publishing license Devs are not obliged to comply by Publishers demands, mate.

  • JJ4NH45H73JJ4NH45H73 Member
    edited December 2017

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    Honestly, why are you even telling all of your thought to us (fellow players) when you could be writing a formal letter of inquiry/demand to Naddic Games. I mean criticizing the Fatigue system here on forums wont do any good and is kind of pointless. If Koreans Devs dont decided to remove/change it there is not much to be done. Publishers can force them to change but most likely according to legal publishing license Devs are not obliged to comply by Publishers demands, mate.

    Why even have a discussion forum at all if people aren't free to... discuss? Like I mentioned in an earlier post I also came here to gather information on why this system exists. Also rather interesting that they give 0 interest to the forums when they have an entire section labeled "feedback." Seems rather pointless to ask for it then completely ignore it / helpless to do anything with it.

    All I have so far is:
    If fatigue is gone, it breaks economy and thus doomsday for game. (Seems most plausible)
    Fatigue does not matter if you are max level (This sort of counters the first point. Why does it not matter if it is a cornerstone of the economy?)
    Fatigue limits player's leveling experience because we can't level them too fast? (I don't understand this issue when the speed is just a matter of a few days difference)

  • metafalicametafalica Member
    edited December 2017
    Remove Stamina

    Fatigue in Closers is the worst one I have seen out of any game. It can't even reset properly. On the first days, you get only 170 back and it only resets during weekly maintenance. This is a massive problem because it isn't even consistent. At least in other games you have consistency. Congratulations on making the worst fatigue system I have ever seen though. I never thought I'd see people able to top mobile games, but you somehow did. Had I known that this was the case, I would have never bought the founders pack or stuck with this game.

    I prefer a system that doesn't use fatigue at all. Increase the grind 5 times over if you want, but that way, at least I get to play at my own pace. Even then, increase grind is a pretty poor argument to limit progress as much of the end game is already dictated by daily entrance limits, which makes fatigue even worse as you need both fatigue and keys to enter some of the stages.

    The idea fatigue keeps a stable economy is a joke. The economy of this game is already going to be in the gutter because of the to salvage costume items in order to get the materials needed to upgrade your costumes. The fatigue doesn't ruin the economy. The game already ruined their own economy. There is no way for the economy to balance itself out when you have to rely on the item mall and there's no way for farming to ever balance out without a proper in game marketplace and the ability to farm those items.

    Right now, by Friday, I'm literally done for the week and only logging in for the Christmas event. There's not much else for me to do in the game unless I want to level up another character.

  • MikoyoseMikoyose Member
    edited December 2017
    Accumulative Daily Fatigue

    Weekly fatigue is okay but I guess players who can play daily find it hard to control themselves to run only 17 dungeons per day. Tbh it hurts more then you made a mistake and there are event dungeons so you can't run them the the whole week lol. Daily fatigue would solve that but is a little sad for those people who are busy and can only play during day offs. Removing stamina is a bit too much for me. I voted for "Accumulative Daily Fatigue" wherein players who can play daily will have some limiter and players who can only play on breaks which are usually on weekends(reset is Monday so I think it's good) can maximize the use of their chars' stamina.

    Suggestion: You guys can also tweak stamina a bit. If a character was able to fill the weekly fatigue, it would be given some effect/s whilst still being able to run dungeons. (eg. lower drop rates, less EXP, less gold etc.)

This discussion has been closed.