Removal of Fatigue on July 3 and Violet Release???

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Comments

  • MuonMuon Member

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @Smexinator said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @Draciusen said:

    tl;dr-

    Gold farming is very real and very serious issue for a game's economy. If EnMasse wants to remove stamina, they're going to have to put more than twice the effort the gold farmers are willing to put into farming if they want to combat it. And they have to do so before it even becomes an issue.

    So these thousands of accounts farming on this specific low lvl area never leave any trace to server logs? Fatigue is only one of the many anti-botting features of this game, removing one will certainly not make this game botting friendly. Youre saying this game is not mechanically difficult but that is just opinion, you have to present this botters to prove the claim that it is easy.

    Yeah and gl banning THOUSANDS of accounts without catching legit players in the cross fire. It WILL make enmasse's job a whole lot difficult.

    If thousands of botters already exists and botting in the game, how come we dont see innocent players getting banned for wrong reasons? Maybe, these botters never leave any traces in the server so Enmasse never banned them?

    Because they are limited with the fatigue so it isn't a huge issue.... remove all the fatigue it will balloon to a major issue...

    So we currently have thousands of botters in the game, but somehow it is not a huge issue, even though they DO leave traces to server. But if we remove this stamina system the problem will be deteriorated even more so those botting traces in the sever will banished?

    Omg just quit before you fall even more behind. Your responses are nonsensical at this point.

    It was your logic not mine lol. I only translated your response. Thats why i also find them nonsensical as you do from your replies.

    So where have I mentioned anything close to bots leaving traces on the server besides my original statement including innocent players being caught and accidentally banned in the process? So remind me how is that my logic?

    I literally told you my.logic. the fatigue keeps the gold botters in check.mostly. remove it enmasse will need to have people dedicated to banning them(likely). If the inflating of the market can happen in vindictus DUE TO BOTTING and it being a much larger technical challenge for said botters or hackers it WILL happen to Closers. Look at JPs market if you need proof.

    Thats why Im telling you they do leave traces specially theyre concentrated at few maps in lower levels. So Botting will be filter out. Thats even saying that botting is possible in the first place where you dont have proof other than giving opinions that they do exist.

    JP have stamina system in place afaik, (i dont play there) I believe. According to guildmate that is playing there, the malek boxes are being given left and right easily and virtually events that give tons of money. It doesnt have to do with stamina.

    I had a friend irl that botted.I have witnessed it. It is far simpler than you think.

    Im very familiar with botting as well. From Clash of Clans to all the way back in Ragnarok days, thats why with closers complexity it would be impossible, unless you can stop giving imagination and start producing evidence from our game.

    So seeing my friends char running itself while at my friends house WHILE HE WASN'T AT THE PC my imagination? -slow claps- almost made me believe you can actually hold up your point without killing your own argument.

    Then try it to closers then? Youre giving example from other game even though they dont exist on our server. Just because they do exist from other games they will do so from our game. You have to prove that first.

    Um I'm literally talking Closers right now. And oh I was supposed to record that? How about you prove how gold botting CANT happen?

    Ok if it is closers then how about you start giving solid facts now? It would be easy since you have first hand experience with them. But i believe you dont have, you only have claim. Me not providing facts about this game being unbotable doesnt justify that bots exist.

    You think highly of this game. There's no such thing as perfect unflawed program/code. You just need a good hack/programmer to put a little effort and this game can be totally botted.

    @mistressj have solid facts, i wanna see that or better yet bring it to enmasse, rather than supposition. It only look liked that theyre using this botting thing to show disgust to stamina system even though they dont exist in our game. If botters exist in our game it should be presented with facts because that is a claim. Botting from other games is not an argument either lol. Thats slippery slope.

    -rolls eyes- ok time to stalk him and provide video facts. And PLEASE PROVE to me botting can't happen.. if you can't just go away and I will do the same. Way I see it is if you can't prove they can't exist in this game your argument is JUST as faulty as mine

    Your argument is not fault it would invalidate me completely, as long as you provide your facts.

  • @Smexinator said:
    You think highly of this game. There's no such thing as perfect unflawed program/code. You just need a good hack/programmer to put a little effort and this game can be totally botted.

    @Muon is operating under the assumption that a game is bot-proof unless proven otherwise; when in fact it is the exact opposite. No point in arguing further if you're starting from an incorrect premise.

    also pls stop quoting the same chain im getting too many notifications

  • @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @Smexinator said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @Draciusen said:

    tl;dr-

    Gold farming is very real and very serious issue for a game's economy. If EnMasse wants to remove stamina, they're going to have to put more than twice the effort the gold farmers are willing to put into farming if they want to combat it. And they have to do so before it even becomes an issue.

    So these thousands of accounts farming on this specific low lvl area never leave any trace to server logs? Fatigue is only one of the many anti-botting features of this game, removing one will certainly not make this game botting friendly. Youre saying this game is not mechanically difficult but that is just opinion, you have to present this botters to prove the claim that it is easy.

    Yeah and gl banning THOUSANDS of accounts without catching legit players in the cross fire. It WILL make enmasse's job a whole lot difficult.

    If thousands of botters already exists and botting in the game, how come we dont see innocent players getting banned for wrong reasons? Maybe, these botters never leave any traces in the server so Enmasse never banned them?

    Because they are limited with the fatigue so it isn't a huge issue.... remove all the fatigue it will balloon to a major issue...

    So we currently have thousands of botters in the game, but somehow it is not a huge issue, even though they DO leave traces to server. But if we remove this stamina system the problem will be deteriorated even more so those botting traces in the sever will banished?

    Omg just quit before you fall even more behind. Your responses are nonsensical at this point.

    It was your logic not mine lol. I only translated your response. Thats why i also find them nonsensical as you do from your replies.

    So where have I mentioned anything close to bots leaving traces on the server besides my original statement including innocent players being caught and accidentally banned in the process? So remind me how is that my logic?

    I literally told you my.logic. the fatigue keeps the gold botters in check.mostly. remove it enmasse will need to have people dedicated to banning them(likely). If the inflating of the market can happen in vindictus DUE TO BOTTING and it being a much larger technical challenge for said botters or hackers it WILL happen to Closers. Look at JPs market if you need proof.

    Thats why Im telling you they do leave traces specially theyre concentrated at few maps in lower levels. So Botting will be filter out. Thats even saying that botting is possible in the first place where you dont have proof other than giving opinions that they do exist.

    JP have stamina system in place afaik, (i dont play there) I believe. According to guildmate that is playing there, the malek boxes are being given left and right easily and virtually events that give tons of money. It doesnt have to do with stamina.

    I had a friend irl that botted.I have witnessed it. It is far simpler than you think.

    Im very familiar with botting as well. From Clash of Clans to all the way back in Ragnarok days, thats why with closers complexity it would be impossible, unless you can stop giving imagination and start producing evidence from our game.

    So seeing my friends char running itself while at my friends house WHILE HE WASN'T AT THE PC my imagination? -slow claps- almost made me believe you can actually hold up your point without killing your own argument.

    Then try it to closers then? Youre giving example from other game even though they dont exist on our server. Just because they do exist from other games they will do so from our game. You have to prove that first.

    Um I'm literally talking Closers right now. And oh I was supposed to record that? How about you prove how gold botting CANT happen?

    Ok if it is closers then how about you start giving solid facts now? It would be easy since you have first hand experience with them. But i believe you dont have, you only have claim. Me not providing facts about this game being unbotable doesnt justify that bots exist.

    You think highly of this game. There's no such thing as perfect unflawed program/code. You just need a good hack/programmer to put a little effort and this game can be totally botted.

    @mistressj have solid facts, i wanna see that or better yet bring it to enmasse, rather than supposition. It only look liked that theyre using this botting thing to show disgust to stamina system even though they dont exist in our game. If botters exist in our game it should be presented with facts because that is a claim. Botting from other games is not an argument either lol. Thats slippery slope.

    -rolls eyes- ok time to stalk him and provide video facts. And PLEASE PROVE to me botting can't happen.. if you can't just go away and I will do the same. Way I see it is if you can't prove they can't exist in this game your argument is JUST as faulty as mine

    Your argument is not fault it would invalidate me completely, as long as you provide your facts.

    At this point I'm only beating a dead horse. You refuse to provide it not being possible and I can't prove it cause I don't understand it completely. But botting is existing wether you wanna believe it or not. If the chat bots I have seen in megaphone in peak hours doesn't give you an idea that it is possible, nothing will. Enjoy!

  • MuonMuon Member

    Chatbots can be explained as phishing site that prey on gullible people, it doesnt necessarily means it is botting. If you cant provide proof like I thought it would be, then this game is free from bot, simple as that. I believe Enmasse will say the same to assure people that they dont exist. Ill only believe if Enmasse themselves admit that they do exist not from random forumer who claims he has first hand experience from these botters.

  • mistressjmistressj Member
    edited June 2018

    @Muon said:
    Chatbots can be explained as phishing site that prey on gullible people, it doesnt necessarily means it is botting. If you cant provide proof like I thought it would be, then this game is free from bot, simple as that. I believe Enmasse will say the same to assure people that they dont exist. Ill only believe if Enmasse themselves admit that they do exist not from random forumer who claims he has first hand experience from these botters.

    See? That's the problem "I don't see it so it doesn't exist" is the wrong way to look at it. So do you believe everything you are told by authority(ish)in this case being enmasse)) figures?
    I can admit I can't prove it so I know for a fact I am not an expert or whatever but you being so "I haven't seen it so it doesn't exist" is just as bad. Considering you don't see the glaring flaws in your arguement this is the absolute last time I'm feeding you attention.

  • MuonMuon Member

    I also feel like you would provide solid facts thats why i stayed with you, knowing for fact now you cant provide me any longer so lets part our way this time for sure. Even though it was short lived lets just stay that your imagination exist and the fact that this game is bot free. To each to their own.

  • @Adorable said:
    WOOO I LOVE THIS NEW CHANGE. THANK YOU ENMASSE. Doing the right thing here for the players. :3

    Is it sarcasm?

  • @Muon said:
    I also feel like you would provide solid facts thats why i stayed with you, knowing for fact now you cant provide me any longer so lets part our way this time for sure. Even though it was short lived lets just stay that your imagination exist and the fact that this game is bot free. To each to their own.

    Huh. You want proof? Go find it on your own then. Seems to me like you're a smartass. If you want proof that much then get out of here. If you're so hard-headed you're unwilling to accept the possibility of others opinion then you're better finding the answers on your own

  • @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Muon said:

    @Draciusen said:

    tl;dr-

    Gold farming is very real and very serious issue for a game's economy. If EnMasse wants to remove stamina, they're going to have to put more than twice the effort the gold farmers are willing to put into farming if they want to combat it. And they have to do so before it even becomes an issue.

    So these thousands of accounts farming on this specific low lvl area never leave any trace to server logs? Fatigue is only one of the many anti-botting features of this game, removing one will certainly not make this game botting friendly. Youre saying this game is not mechanically difficult but that is just opinion, you have to present this botters to prove the claim that it is easy.

    Yeah and gl banning THOUSANDS of accounts without catching legit players in the cross fire. It WILL make enmasse's job a whole lot difficult.

    If thousands of botters already exists and botting in the game, how come we dont see innocent players getting banned for wrong reasons? Maybe, these botters never leave any traces in the server so Enmasse never banned them?

    Because they are limited with the fatigue so it isn't a huge issue.... remove all the fatigue it will balloon to a major issue...

    So we currently have thousands of botters in the game, but somehow it is not a huge issue, even though they DO leave traces to server. But if we remove this stamina system the problem will be deteriorated even more so those botting traces in the sever will banished?

    Omg just quit before you fall even more behind. Your responses are nonsensical at this point.

    It was your logic not mine lol. I only translated your response. Thats why i also find them nonsensical as you do from your replies.

    So where have I mentioned anything close to bots leaving traces on the server besides my original statement including innocent players being caught and accidentally banned in the process? So remind me how is that my logic?

    I literally told you my.logic. the fatigue keeps the gold botters in check.mostly. remove it enmasse will need to have people dedicated to banning them(likely). If the inflating of the market can happen in vindictus DUE TO BOTTING and it being a much larger technical challenge for said botters or hackers it WILL happen to Closers. Look at JPs market if you need proof.

    Thats why Im telling you they do leave traces specially theyre concentrated at few maps in lower levels. So Botting will be filter out. Thats even saying that botting is possible in the first place where you dont have proof other than giving opinions that they do exist.

    JP have stamina system in place afaik, (i dont play there) I believe. According to guildmate that is playing there, the malek boxes are being given left and right easily and virtually events that give tons of money. It doesnt have to do with stamina.

    I had a friend irl that botted.I have witnessed it. It is far simpler than you think.

    Im very familiar with botting as well. From Clash of Clans to all the way back in Ragnarok days, thats why with closers complexity it would be impossible, unless you can stop giving imagination and start producing evidence from our game.

    So seeing my friends char running itself while at my friends house WHILE HE WASN'T AT THE PC my imagination? -slow claps- almost made me believe you can actually hold up your point without killing your own argument.

    Then try it to closers then? Youre giving example from other game even though they dont exist on our server. Just because they do exist from other games they will do so from our game. You have to prove that first.

    Do you play the game? Honest question because if you've logged in recently I'm sure you've seen gold seller advertisements in server chat already. Literally what more proof do you need to know that people are already botting in this game?

    And saying it's fine because they are already an issue makes no logical sense whatsoever. You seem like a smart guy, so I'll give you some simple math.

    Bots are capped at 1900 fatigue per week, giving them less than 6 hours of grinding per week. Story missions can give you quite a bit of credits per run. If a mission gives you 30k credits per run, that's about 5-6mil in credits per week.

    Now here's where the math gets super complicated, please bear with me;

    Take out that 1900 cap and suddenly these bots can farm 60 hours a week instead of 6 hours a week PER ACCOUNT. Suddenly that 5-6mil figure becomes 50-60mil. And no this game isn't difficult. You can easy oneshot all trash/bosses in story all the way up to planar gate, so we really must be playing two completely different games here if you are getting wiped across the floor during story quests.

    People who use "but gold botters will be caught if they farm 24/7!" as an arguement are taking things to the extreme. These botters aren't idiots and they are doing this to make real money. If they limit farming to 40ish hours a week per account, time spent online suddenly becomes irrelevant because actual players can and will play the game for that long.

    If you still can't comprehend this then I can only take it you are one of these gold sellers going to the end of your rope to defend something that only negatively harms the game in the longterm. There are better ways to deal with fatigue and this is by far the worse possible way to do so.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Muon said:
    I also feel like you would provide solid facts thats why i stayed with you, knowing for fact now you cant provide me any longer so lets part our way this time for sure. Even though it was short lived lets just stay that your imagination exist and the fact that this game is bot free. To each to their own.

    Huh. You want proof? Go find it on your own then. Seems to me like you're a smartass. If you want proof that much then get out of here. If you're so hard-headed you're unwilling to accept the possibility of others opinion then you're better finding the answers on your own

    The problem is that, this opinion you speak of are being delivered as fact, even though it cant be verified. As long as you exist that also said that botters are only an opinion then thats more than enough. Case close then? Unlimited stamina will stay because botters dont exist.

  • @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Muon said:
    I also feel like you would provide solid facts thats why i stayed with you, knowing for fact now you cant provide me any longer so lets part our way this time for sure. Even though it was short lived lets just stay that your imagination exist and the fact that this game is bot free. To each to their own.

    Huh. You want proof? Go find it on your own then. Seems to me like you're a smartass. If you want proof that much then get out of here. If you're so hard-headed you're unwilling to accept the possibility of others opinion then you're better finding the answers on your own

    The problem is that, this opinion you speak of are being delivered as fact, even though it cant be verified. As long as you exist that also said that botters are only an opinion then thats more than enough. Case close then? Unlimited stamina will stay because botters dont exist.

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

  • Yeah you're right. He's a lost cause.

  • @Draciusen said:

    Alright boys pack it up we just solved the issue. Botting can't happen because botters don't exist. They never existed.

    Botters: I don't feel so good

    damn it. i actually laughed.

    well, we'll all see within 1 month after change happens (which I hope it wont) to see how well the game is holding on to it's last breaths.

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Volt8ge said:

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

    I also believe that majority should dictate the course of the game. Now whether this place is the majority is highly subjective, we did a voting before with Tina and Harpy and this very forum is Harpy friendly, but the result is obviously different if we take all the opinions of all players in-game. The fact that many people dont want this stamina system already left the game and reviews from steam is very apparent. So i dont think im the only idiot that want this stamima removed.

  • c'mon this is great it will help new players to catch up fast in the game also we can play our favorite character with out worrying our ftg if you are worrying about the economy we guys have ways to deal with it.

  • Doesn't help that most of those that want it removed are people who have never played it or just starting out.

  • ... alright, I'll bite. How can you "Deal with it" then in your ways?

  • @ArunoSesugawa said:
    ... alright, I'll bite. How can you "Deal with it" then in your ways?

    you become the botter yourself, duh

  • Dracis> @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

    I also believe that majority should dictate the course of the game. Now whether this place is the majority is highly subjective, we did a voting before with Tina and Harpy and this very forum is Harpy friendly, but the result is obviously different if we take all the opinions of all players in-game. The fact that many people dont want this stamina system already left the game and reviews from steam is very apparent. So i dont think im the only idiot that want this stamima removed.

    Yeah. You and some more idiots

  • @AdminSensitive said:
    c'mon this is great it will help new players to catch up fast in the game also we can play our favorite character with out worrying our ftg if you are worrying about the economy we guys have ways to deal with it.

    It's not hard to level in the first place.. what are you talking about. What kind of fast catch up do we need?

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Volt8ge said:
    Dracis> @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

    I also believe that majority should dictate the course of the game. Now whether this place is the majority is highly subjective, we did a voting before with Tina and Harpy and this very forum is Harpy friendly, but the result is obviously different if we take all the opinions of all players in-game. The fact that many people dont want this stamina system already left the game and reviews from steam is very apparent. So i dont think im the only idiot that want this stamima removed.

    Yeah. You and some more idiots

    I wanna see more of your name-calling. It shows who you are.

  • @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    Dracis> @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

    I also believe that majority should dictate the course of the game. Now whether this place is the majority is highly subjective, we did a voting before with Tina and Harpy and this very forum is Harpy friendly, but the result is obviously different if we take all the opinions of all players in-game. The fact that many people dont want this stamina system already left the game and reviews from steam is very apparent. So i dont think im the only idiot that want this stamima removed.

    Yeah. You and some more idiots

    I wanna see more of your name-calling. It shows who you are.

    Just goes to show you how I react to people that are so hard-headed they're unwilling to accept others opinion. Just be glad I didn't call you worse due to forum policy. Peace out,kid

  • im from a new player also and so you are the feeling when you want to play and level but you dont have ftg so youll wait for tuesday thats sucks. and the only solution is to make more chars to be able to play again. thats the same make more chars so you can farm more credits that also fuck up the economy so why not let it be no ftg system.

  • @SandersLMAO said:

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    ... alright, I'll bite. How can you "Deal with it" then in your ways?

    you become the botter yourself, duh

    no u cant be a botter they dont exist

  • MuonMuon Member

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:
    Dracis> @Muon said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    Seems to me like you're wrong. If you look at the Feedback post, most of the players don't want the fatigue removed at all. What more proof do you need? You against all of us? Your statement vs all of ours. Seems to me like you're the only idiot that supports unlimited stamina

    I also believe that majority should dictate the course of the game. Now whether this place is the majority is highly subjective, we did a voting before with Tina and Harpy and this very forum is Harpy friendly, but the result is obviously different if we take all the opinions of all players in-game. The fact that many people dont want this stamina system already left the game and reviews from steam is very apparent. So i dont think im the only idiot that want this stamima removed.

    Yeah. You and some more idiots

    I wanna see more of your name-calling. It shows who you are.

    Just goes to show you how I react to people that are so hard-headed they're unwilling to accept others opinion. Just be glad I didn't call you worse due to forum policy. Peace out,kid

    I think based on forum policy you already crossed the line. Thats so funny, you actually aware of forum rules, I believe you dont or maybe you want exemption because you think youre special or something you can get away easily?

  • @IDoNotMainJ

    Don't bother, you're looking at someone that wants to sell their account and hates the game to its core. They just want to see the game crash and burn. As for the other one...
    iwasonlypretending.jpg

  • Forum policy says no swearing or harsh words. And idiot is a modern term of someone who is unknowledgeable or have low understanding on certain topics. Go back to school child.

  • yeah some of post here in forums has that harsh word i dont know why they not getting banned.

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