Thanks To Your Feedback...

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Comments

  • @Tetsuo9999 said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Pokechu said:

    @mistressj said:

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Pokechu said:

    @Tetsuo9999 said:
    Releasing the new characters without their full movesets is an issue too. Harpy players have had her capped for weeks, yet we're all stuck using her in content designed with SA/SC promotions and moves in mind. There doesn't seem to be much reason to not include it at the start when we're already stuck trying to play catch-up, and SA/SC events are often a rather dry and boring update for anyone who doesn't use that character. The current event system kind of puts them in a corner as putting more than one promotion out at a time would cause a massive grind for anyone who wants all the rewards. Removing fatigue will just amplify this issue with players hitting endgame quickly and not having all the tools they really need. I want this game to do better, but I've never really seen the removal of a fatigue system work well unless it was at the beginning of the game's lifespan. Everyone's concerns are warranted, but hopefully they manage to prove us wrong. They'll certainly need to do more advertising if the goal of this is to bring in new players, but simply removing the daily fatigue limit upon creation of a new character would have been sufficient for now.

    Same thing with J/Tein/Levia/Nata/Tina. Violet didn't get her SC on KR until purification came out iirc and she was fine. So idk.

    Yeah, for NA, we'll get them way before Puri.

    With the 3 SA's in as many updates? Hell yeah! Wonder which SA is next

    J/Tein/Levia/Nata/Tina/Harpy/Violet in that order.

    Crap.. next to last.. ah well

    No EX Zephyr Combination in our near future, it seems.

    Regardless of whether the characters launched without SA/SC on the other versions, I feel there's no reason to withhold them here. We're basically caught up in the story, but the full movesets and the buffs that come with them are still weeks if not months away. DFO has been experimenting with removing the dripfeed and releasing new characters with their second awakenings right away, which has likely been received well. SA/SC can change the gameplay a lot, so it's understandable that players don't want to be dripfed that content.

    Patience is a virtue guys.

  • @metafalica said:

    @Lilacette said:

    @metafalica said:

    @mistressj said:

    @metafalica said:

    @JRNLC4JEPN said:

    @mistressj said:

    This. So.much THIS.
    I played it since it was open to about the time arisha was released and quit soon after I got her to 70.

    Yup I played Vindictus until I heard about Closers NA because I've been waiting LITERALLY since it was released in KR. Dark times my friend... This game doesn't even require you to farm as much as Vindictus unless you want an entire closet of costumes to dress your characters in. The only time when you actually max your fatigue is when you want to level, so I have no idea why the hell players are complaining about the fatigue system when the only dungeons people do are tia, tia sides, PG75, gremory, gremory sides, and currently Irina (and VR dungeons if you still want wings).

    Because you still don't have enough fatigue to do all the dailies much less Crew Missions/Quests unless you PvP, and that is always a bad thing.

    Use the potions they give you? I don't have fatigue issues.

    The potions they give you isn't really enough if you're leveling. You'll be lucky if it lasts you two hours unless you're doing post Sky Ship content

    That's why the better option is to remove character fatigue and the 7-day limit, instead of removing fatigue altogether. Those who want to level up, or only play one character would be able to do so without being restricted. Including the stamina potions that they give you and that you're able to craft, you should be able to level up to max much quicker (easier if you have housing high/max level too). This is the most satisfactory option as the majority of the community who want the fatigue system to stay will be able to have that as well.

    However, with no further responses from the EME staff in regards to the real feedback, I can only assume that they wont push back nor cancel this terrible update which is quite unfortunate for the majority of players.

    "Real feedback" (and I'm going to put this in quotations mark because it is dumb to disregard some people's opinions just because they don't agree with you) was ignored when Enmasse chose to kept fatigue back in January and throttle the release of content. Look at how far its gotten them. Since March, content has been pushed out at a rapid pace, but it isn't good when you're already starting two years behind (ideal is simultaneous, but < 3 months is a good target too). The game's population has still been declining since April according to Steam Charts. The fatigue haters have already left the game and the remaining population is less than the desired target while still declining. Something needs to change to try to bring players back or bring in new players.

    If you want a good look at how well the game is doing right now, take a look at the Black Market and look at the actually supply of non-premium cosmetic items.

    @Volt8ge said:

    @Nathaniel697 said:
    Publisher's gold market still better than bot's. Some MMO's surely have it(i think so), but removal of only character fatigue is MORE better IMHO. Or maybe just let gamers don't run out of ftg while doing story quests, or don't overload game with events. Either way I waiting for the Wolfgang and slowly leveling my other characters, so let's hope that game don't die after this.
    Or what more better is to stop from getting gold after ftg is out, but keep the exp to complete story, end-game don't eat your fatigue (if you already at max lvl)

    I agree with character fatigue removal, but a Publishers Market. Oh, that's dangerous. I don't trust EME enough for them to control the market. And what's more events are more important in order to keep playerbase high. Without events your game's dead in some way.

    EME can't even control the gold farm in the International Airport atm. Best value for your fatigue.

    Steam Charts not the place of showing peoples who play this game. Closers have original launcher.

  • @Genm said:
    i stopped caring at this point as it seems EME will really push the NO FTG ruling for NA/EU Server,
    If things went shits taste at the future of overpriced stuffs in Black Market and EME could not control it (like how they promise to control stuff and avoid what happened to JP server), just say this to EME
    "WE FCKING TOLD YOU SO"

    Me 4 days ago

  • reading the mass amount of comments saying dont do it is kinda scary this game has been really fun and i would hate to see it become a bots playground the way i see it is you change the stamina system to where we only have account and not character and change the materials required to craft certain things i see this as the biggest and best way to fix the issue the change we are doing now will only scare people away

  • this is an extremely bad idea like a really bad one

  • @PlsEnjoyGame said:
    Considering the name of this thread is "Thanks for your feedback" It doesn't seem you actually read feedback, which is concerning. I'm curious as to where you got the feedback you're thanking us for?

    Maybe take the time to read this thread, before doing such a big update that I would say a decent % of the active player base doesn't want.

    To be fair, EME staff have been reading the feedback on this thread and have commented on it. Personally, it'd probably be better if they did like a live-in-game vote (might've triggered a few people with that word) or something but at this point, the ball's rolling so we can only see if they'll hold up their end of the bargain in making sure our fears are allayed.

  • @Lilacette said:

    @PlsEnjoyGame said:
    Considering the name of this thread is "Thanks for your feedback" It doesn't seem you actually read feedback, which is concerning. I'm curious as to where you got the feedback you're thanking us for?

    Maybe take the time to read this thread, before doing such a big update that I would say a decent % of the active player base doesn't want.

    I'm sure they have read some comments on this thread, but most of it is appearing to be ignored. There was never any actual feedback showing that more people want this change than people who don't. I'm also pretty sure that this desperate decision was made in hopes that they can bring more players in and make themselves look good to outsiders/new players, though stating that it's because of our feedback to hide the real reasons and so if it goes terribly wrong, it's the players fault as they supposedly 'wanted' this change. With a lot more advertising, it would most likely bring more players in than this update would.

    It's obvious that the majority of players never wanted this change, and it has been made so clear by this thread that they shouldn't go through with this update. As I've mentioned before, they're blatantly really selective with the feedback that they want to listen to. We have been left in the dark ever since Cochese's reply which was a week ago, and even that was awfully empty. Of course, there are a lot of questions that are waiting to be answered and they might not be able to answer everything, but they could've spared a few minutes and cleared some things up. They haven't tried made it noticeable that they are still reading our comments and/or caring about what we actually want, which is truly concerning regarding the future of the game, and from what we know, they haven't even considered any of our true feedback.

    @Orenglaive said:
    To be fair, EME staff have been reading the feedback on this thread and have commented on it. Personally, it'd probably be better if they did like a live-in-game vote (might've triggered a few people with that word) or something but at this point, the ball's rolling so we can only see if they'll hold up their end of the bargain in making sure our fears are allayed.

    Undoubtedly they have said that they are reading our feedback, and it's true that they've commented once about our feedback, but again, Cochese's reply was empty and didn't address a lot of important things. If they genuinely wanted to make a change due to our feedback, then removing the fatigue system as a whole wouldn't be an option - removing character fatigue is much more reasonable and makes more sense. An in-game vote definitely wouldn't help the situation as it could easily be manipulated by EME to make it seem as if that's what we want. It can also be abused by players, depending on how the vote is made. Another problem with this is that they announced this update far too late; we were never able to have a say in this, there is no discussion between the players and EME staff, and they can easily just ignore us for another week until they release the update, or give us another empty reply because they want this update to go through.

    They have a lot of important feedback given here and on multiple other threads/polls that have been created. If they listened to feedback, they would delay or with a lot of hope cancel the removal of the fatigue system. There has definitely been enough time to change this decision, but as usual we will have to deal with what they and a small portion of players want, which in reality takes the whole point of this update away. We have made it immensely clear that the majority do not want this update, but as I have mentioned plenty of times already, they are selective with which feedback they want to listen to.

    I'd personally rather not take the high risk that this update will turn out terrible, as it would be quite difficult for them to fix. With reference to them saying that they'd 'monitor the black market' and 'are trying to come up with a plan for bots', the way that the black market currently is makes it really tough to trust them. The prices have jolted up by a lot compared to the economy before the bots were spamming hubs/world chat with their websites. So far they have done nothing regarding this, and that shows that we can't depend on what they claim they will do.

    Truer words have never been spoken..

    By selective, you mean players who play for a day and quit because 'WAAAAAHHH FATIGUE SYSTEM NO GOOD' and EME wants to retain those players. It's not even their fault for feeling this way; I was pretty mad about it myself on my first day after finding out I could no longer play after an hour because my fatigue was capped. Why don't they just remove character fatigue? Or at least give starting characters the full amount of fatigue instead of letting it build up over a week because that is what turns new players away. Attracting/retaining new players is one reason, the other being:

    Players: "Too many concurrent ongoing events, please reduce crafting requirement of event items so we're not overwhelmed"
    EME: "Ok" *Removes fatigue*

    You'd think they would consult the playerbase before making such a drastic change. Player focused developer btw.

  • @Lilacette said:

    @PlsEnjoyGame said:
    Considering the name of this thread is "Thanks for your feedback" It doesn't seem you actually read feedback, which is concerning. I'm curious as to where you got the feedback you're thanking us for?

    Maybe take the time to read this thread, before doing such a big update that I would say a decent % of the active player base doesn't want.

    I'm sure they have read some comments on this thread, but most of it is appearing to be ignored. There was never any actual feedback showing that more people want this change than people who don't. I'm also pretty sure that this desperate decision was made in hopes that they can bring more players in and make themselves look good to outsiders/new players, though stating that it's because of our feedback to hide the real reasons and so if it goes terribly wrong, it's the players fault as they supposedly 'wanted' this change. With a lot more advertising, it would most likely bring more players in than this update would.

    It's obvious that the majority of players never wanted this change, and it has been made so clear by this thread that they shouldn't go through with this update. As I've mentioned before, they're blatantly really selective with the feedback that they want to listen to. We have been left in the dark ever since Cochese's reply which was a week ago, and even that was awfully empty. Of course, there are a lot of questions that are waiting to be answered and they might not be able to answer everything, but they could've spared a few minutes and cleared some things up. They haven't tried made it noticeable that they are still reading our comments and/or caring about what we actually want, which is truly concerning regarding the future of the game, and from what we know, they haven't even considered any of our true feedback.

    @Orenglaive said:
    To be fair, EME staff have been reading the feedback on this thread and have commented on it. Personally, it'd probably be better if they did like a live-in-game vote (might've triggered a few people with that word) or something but at this point, the ball's rolling so we can only see if they'll hold up their end of the bargain in making sure our fears are allayed.

    Undoubtedly they have said that they are reading our feedback, and it's true that they've commented once about our feedback, but again, Cochese's reply was empty and didn't address a lot of important things. If they genuinely wanted to make a change due to our feedback, then removing the fatigue system as a whole wouldn't be an option - removing character fatigue is much more reasonable and makes more sense. An in-game vote definitely wouldn't help the situation as it could easily be manipulated by EME to make it seem as if that's what we want. It can also be abused by players, depending on how the vote is made. Another problem with this is that they announced this update far too late; we were never able to have a say in this, there is no discussion between the players and EME staff, and they can easily just ignore us for another week until they release the update, or give us another empty reply because they want this update to go through.

    They have a lot of important feedback given here and on multiple other threads/polls that have been created. If they listened to feedback, they would delay or with a lot of hope cancel the removal of the fatigue system. There has definitely been enough time to change this decision, but as usual we will have to deal with what they and a small portion of players want, which in reality takes the whole point of this update away. We have made it immensely clear that the majority do not want this update, but as I have mentioned plenty of times already, they are selective with which feedback they want to listen to.

    I'd personally rather not take the high risk that this update will turn out terrible, as it would be quite difficult for them to fix. With reference to them saying that they'd 'monitor the black market' and 'are trying to come up with a plan for bots', the way that the black market currently is makes it really tough to trust them. The prices have jolted up by a lot compared to the economy before the bots were spamming hubs/world chat with their websites. So far they have done nothing regarding this, and that shows that we can't depend on what they claim they will do.

    Lol.... suddenly remembered the whole Market at the moment... 300-500M per SoD piece... what is this... Alpha??

  • @Pokechu said:
    @Lilacette

    There's no feasible way for them to cancel it at this point. The word is already out, several mmo websites already have news posts regarding this change. They can't wiggle themselves out of this situation by saying it was a miscommunication either. Only thing left to do is to wait and see how it turns out, though I'm not very confident in it turning out the way they're hoping it will.

    I don't believe it's going to turn out the way they want it to turn out. I strongly do believe the game will die. It may not happen right away, or even until the end of this year, but eventually, it will die. Sometimes I wish companies would just suck up their pride, and actually listen to the community. After all, a community is the core of the game, and without the community, the game would be nothing. But who knows, I may be wrong and this game can live for several years. We'll just have to wait and see.

  • @PlsEnjoyGame said:

    @Pokechu said:
    @Lilacette

    There's no feasible way for them to cancel it at this point. The word is already out, several mmo websites already have news posts regarding this change. They can't wiggle themselves out of this situation by saying it was a miscommunication either. Only thing left to do is to wait and see how it turns out, though I'm not very confident in it turning out the way they're hoping it will.

    I don't believe it's going to turn out the way they want it to turn out. I strongly do believe the game will die. It may not happen right away, or even until the end of this year, but eventually, it will die. Sometimes I wish companies would just suck up their pride, and actually listen to the community. After all, a community is the core of the game, and without the community, the game would be nothing. But who knows, I may be wrong and this game can live for several years. We'll just have to wait and see.

    if this game can survive as long as wakfu/dofus can... I'll be so surprised.

  • @ArunoSesugawa said:

    @PlsEnjoyGame said:

    @Pokechu said:
    @Lilacette

    There's no feasible way for them to cancel it at this point. The word is already out, several mmo websites already have news posts regarding this change. They can't wiggle themselves out of this situation by saying it was a miscommunication either. Only thing left to do is to wait and see how it turns out, though I'm not very confident in it turning out the way they're hoping it will.

    I don't believe it's going to turn out the way they want it to turn out. I strongly do believe the game will die. It may not happen right away, or even until the end of this year, but eventually, it will die. Sometimes I wish companies would just suck up their pride, and actually listen to the community. After all, a community is the core of the game, and without the community, the game would be nothing. But who knows, I may be wrong and this game can live for several years. We'll just have to wait and see.

    if this game can survive as long as wakfu/dofus can... I'll be so surprised.

    Those games have a pay wall tho...

  • @NekoparaVanilla said:

    @ArunoSesugawa said:

    @PlsEnjoyGame said:

    @Pokechu said:
    @Lilacette

    There's no feasible way for them to cancel it at this point. The word is already out, several mmo websites already have news posts regarding this change. They can't wiggle themselves out of this situation by saying it was a miscommunication either. Only thing left to do is to wait and see how it turns out, though I'm not very confident in it turning out the way they're hoping it will.

    I don't believe it's going to turn out the way they want it to turn out. I strongly do believe the game will die. It may not happen right away, or even until the end of this year, but eventually, it will die. Sometimes I wish companies would just suck up their pride, and actually listen to the community. After all, a community is the core of the game, and without the community, the game would be nothing. But who knows, I may be wrong and this game can live for several years. We'll just have to wait and see.

    if this game can survive as long as wakfu/dofus can... I'll be so surprised.

    Those games have a pay wall tho...

    Paywall is only at the very very very late game either way. I've played Wakfu for a year and I was never close to 180... hell, I was at stuck at 130... then again I was the crafter/baker/cook number 7 of the guild (yes, we had this many because we needed these type of stuff at late games)

  • GenmGenm Member

    tbf Dofus needs subscription to progress in the game
    while Wakfu, i have no idea how its still alive lol, anime is nice thou

  • @Genm said:
    tbf Dofus needs subscription to progress in the game
    while Wakfu, i have no idea how its still alive lol, anime is nice thou

    Yeah, I'll be fair here as well, I know next to nothing about dofus as I've never played it but I suppose it's somewhat like Wakfu... and I agree, that game is still surprisingly alive... Wakfu doesn't really need subs to progress in the game, is Dofus really that bad?

  • Volt8geVolt8ge Member
    edited June 2018

    @Genm said:
    tbf Dofus needs subscription to progress in the game
    while Wakfu, i have no idea how its still alive lol, anime is nice thou

    Subscription and paywalls are often a sign that there is at least a bit of a quality in the game. Though not all of them. It is a good sign though. It means that the playerbase trust the developers enough to keep paying for the game.

  • @Volt8ge said:

    @Genm said:
    tbf Dofus needs subscription to progress in the game
    while Wakfu, i have no idea how its still alive lol, anime is nice thou

    Subscription and paywalls are often a sign that there is at least a bit of a quality in the game. Though not all of them. It is a good sign though. It means that the playerbase trust the developers enough to keep paying for the game.

    I can't say much about Dofus, but as someone who got max professions on Wakfu before gathering/crafting got its revamp... I can definitely say that the paywall there is barely anything at all... Like I said about it before, Subs on wakfu only unlocks 2 new maps, and their respective dungeons... Which gets released to the public anyways after a few months.

  • GenmGenm Member

    hmm Dofus is not actually bad, it has lots of quest, and dungeon boss from higher level has 2 much Invul mechanics :D

  • Dofus sounds like a googy dog name lol

  • SolarGeoSolarGeo Member
    edited June 2018

    @Gaivan said:

    @Pokechu said:
    @Lilacette

    There's no feasible way for them to cancel it at this point. The word is already out, several mmo websites already have news posts regarding this change. They can't wiggle themselves out of this situation by saying it was a miscommunication either. Only thing left to do is to wait and see how it turns out, though I'm not very confident in it turning out the way they're hoping it will.

    They still have time to say that due to player outcry, they are postponing the update for further review. They absolutely won't, but that's the only potential option I see for them to back down at this point. I'm not confident in their ability to do damage control since they still don't have a way to combat the bots (which I could understand removing stamina if they had a system to control bots in place already, but they don't) and don't know how they are going to try to fix the Black Market when things go upside down. They seem completely unprepared for the situation they are bringing on themselves and us.

    its called but either an account fatg or put a debuff after playing for lets say 12 hours straight. to help combat bots

  • @Cochese said:
    Hello Everyone,

    I appreciate everyone's thoughts here, and overall, see the same concerns being voiced. I understand that many of you feel this change will destroy the game - my hope, is not to change your mind here but to show you that Closers will continue to be the game you love and play today! (maybe even slightly better :) ) We are determined to provide you all with the best service possible. I wish I could show you the team who has been hard at work on this change, along with allllll of the other things being planned down the road. We have a lot to look forward to and we are just getting started.

    So what have we been up to:

    • We have done audits on Live Data to understand the Stamina Potion economy - this data was used to inform us on how we go about converting the existing potions out there now. We have taken a number of things into consideration and feel good about where we landed. (Also, no player has thousands or even close to a thousand of these on their accounts. I know some were worried that keys were abused) Rest assured, you will have a way to convert all of your existing stamina pots into new items!

    • We are reworking all of our DLC to replace the stamina potions and will have new replacement items there when the update goes live.

    • We are banning gold sellers and buyers at this time. Understand I cannot get into specific details about this, we cannot tip our hand on how we detect this. If anything, I am looking into ways players can report these to us better. Also, do not buy gold from sellers, you will have it removed and your account and be suspended. (We've had a few write in asking about this, after we removed their gold)

    • All fatigue potions will be replaced in all places in game. There will no longer be stamina potions anywhere. We will have all the details included in our patch notes soon.

    Best,
    Cochese

    nice and clean

    lets see how it goes i guess

  • @FoSizzle said:

    @Cochese said:
    Hello Everyone,

    I appreciate everyone's thoughts here, and overall, see the same concerns being voiced. I understand that many of you feel this change will destroy the game - my hope, is not to change your mind here but to show you that Closers will continue to be the game you love and play today! (maybe even slightly better :) ) We are determined to provide you all with the best service possible. I wish I could show you the team who has been hard at work on this change, along with allllll of the other things being planned down the road. We have a lot to look forward to and we are just getting started.

    So what have we been up to:

    • We have done audits on Live Data to understand the Stamina Potion economy - this data was used to inform us on how we go about converting the existing potions out there now. We have taken a number of things into consideration and feel good about where we landed. (Also, no player has thousands or even close to a thousand of these on their accounts. I know some were worried that keys were abused) Rest assured, you will have a way to convert all of your existing stamina pots into new items!

    • We are reworking all of our DLC to replace the stamina potions and will have new replacement items there when the update goes live.

    • We are banning gold sellers and buyers at this time. Understand I cannot get into specific details about this, we cannot tip our hand on how we detect this. If anything, I am looking into ways players can report these to us better. Also, do not buy gold from sellers, you will have it removed and your account and be suspended. (We've had a few write in asking about this, after we removed their gold)

    • All fatigue potions will be replaced in all places in game. There will no longer be stamina potions anywhere. We will have all the details included in our patch notes soon.

    Best,
    Cochese

    nice and clean

    lets see how it goes i guess

    Yup.. -fingers crossed it doesn't kill the game-

  • @Pokechu said:
    @Cochese Did you guys also look into a way to compensate people who bought character slots? Most people solely bought them to increase their stamina.

    Why should someone get compensate for that? You got what u paid for and thats the Character slot.

  • BeleilaBeleila Member
    edited June 2018

    @Pokechu said:

    @Beleila said:

    @Pokechu said:
    @Cochese Did you guys also look into a way to compensate people who bought character slots? Most people solely bought them to increase their stamina.

    Why should someone get compensate for that? You got what u paid for and thats the Character slot.

    Character slots also increase stamina, which is the biggest reason people even bought them in the first place.

    While thats true there is no reason to so, thats the same when u buy a Custom from the emp shop and later on they would decide to change the setboni. Yes i know thats not the same scale of things but the base Idea is the same. You wont get any refund/compensation for.

    On that note Housing is then pretty much useless without the Stamina Boost.

  • Interesting. How they will monitor the black market then?

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