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Black Friday $250 Deal Feedback

I will start this post by providing links to all pages being quoted for information:
2018 Black Friday: https://closers.enmasse.com/news/posts/daily-deals-for-black-friday
2018 Spring Cleaning Sale: https://closers.enmasse.com/news/posts/closers-spring-cleaning-sale-may-15-21
2017 Black Friday: https://closers.enmasse.com/news/posts/it-s-time-for-closers-black-friday-deals
Season 3 Gel rewards: https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/9305/dimensional-gel-season-3-rewards

I'm going to be blunt from the start: The bonus rewards from the $250 bundle feels like a perfect slam dunk... Into your own team's hoop.

Black Friday sales from EME is like an early Christmas to the playerbase. This is the one time a year that players can get something HUGE for their money, and as such a lot of dedicated players save up for the $250 fill up deal. However... This year's is a complete joke. The rewards we get are a "Scarlet" Desperado set and a +13 booster.

The +13 is useless to anyone wanting to drop $250 on this, as anyone who's willing to spend $250 on just emp instead of some of the occasional super-value bundles (Founder packs, Wildhuter Ace packs) would already have +13 core and modules. A large portion already have +14 cores, some of them have +14 mods, and a select few even have +15 cores. No other gear slot is worth a +13. (To add on: We have had +13 boosters put into bundles with other items for $50 / 5000 emp multiple times before. This isn't even a "new" item at this point.)

The "Scarlet" Desperado set is one of two things:
1: It is a translation error of what we know in game as the Crimson Desperado set. (Most likely given how translations work)
2: It is an exclusive paywalled color variant of the Desperado set that was not released in KR, CN, or any other server/version of Closers. (How likely do you think this scenario REALLY is?)
Friends who play KR Closers all attest to there being only 3 color variations, and all 3 are in the washing machines that have been in game for a week now (unlike the Sunset Noble that was Wildhuter Ace exclusive).

So in summary, our $250 bonus for Black Friday is a full set of a costume that's been out for a week (don't even get to choose color for if we dislike the Crimson Scarlet set), and a +13 booster (which is useless to 90% of the people who are willing to drop $250).

Let's compare this to the other two $250 fill up deals:

The spring cleaning set gave a few extra goodies, but the main appeal was a 4/4 set Dark Command Accessory box. The 2017 Black Friday sale gave a variety of small rewards alongside permanent Midnight Phase wings. Signature costume accessories and wing effects are both items that players agree are valuable and desire after. Putting such values into the $250 fill ups made them MORE desirable for players.

To top off this slap in the face on the $250 fill up rewards, it doesn't even advertise any of the Season 3 Gel being rewarded like every other pack does. Speaking of said gel, let's go over some of the new rewards being put there:

  • Indigo Lace set
  • Lilac Lace set
  • Black Lace set
  • "Supreme Wing" accessories (Zenith Wing)

The fact that we're getting slight teases at these sets and the accessories for Zenith pieces (the most desired signature costume set in KR) alongside of these fill up "rewards" makes the $250 bonus feel EXCEPTIONALLY disappointing.

It's been proven in the past that wings and 4/4 signature accessory sets are fine in the $250 fill up bundles, and yet a single costume that is in gacha as of the bundle release date and a +13 booster that's been posted frequently in bundles recently is the best we can do? (Not to mention that I can just use the 500 free emp being emailed to us as well as load $40 for 4600 to buy the 5000 emp pack in the store for a +13 booster right now).

So at this point, it's obvious that if I'm presenting this as such a huge problem, I likely have potential solutions, right? Well you're in luck, because I have several options to make the main focus of the $250 fill up to make this more appealing to players:

  1. The most simple solution I can think of is 90,000 contribution points and potentially some other small sweeteners as the $250 fill up. This seems excessive but that's the price of a pair of wings from the contribution shop. Giving players their choice of effect from the contribution shop (or the option to spend it on something else) is something that would entice a lot of players to spend.

  2. The next solution I can give that will likely give massive sales increase is simple: Players bought $250 for the free 4/4 Dark Command accessories, and you are planning to bring in (potentially) early Zenith Supreme Wing accessories. Why not just make the reward ONLY 4/4 Zenith accessories? They have no functional difference from the Cybernetic and Dark Command accessories already in game (you can mix and match signature costume pieces for the stat bonuses) and it is something that will make a ton of players feel the $250 fill up is worth it.

  3. The third solution is to just replace the Desperado set with one of the incoming Lace sets. I know that it isn't here yet (same with the Supreme Wing accessories) but I'm sure players wouldn't mind buying it if we were guaranteed to get it in our mail when it came to NA ("pre-ordering" the outfit or accessories as the bonus)

  4. If for some reason the prior three options are out of the question entirely, then at least add SOMETHING to the bundles to make it more appealing. Alpha Equalizers just came out, as did Transcendence 4 and 5. Transcendental Elixirs are in demand. Shape Memory Devices are in demand. Superclock equalizers are in demand. There's a lot of goodies you can add instead of a +13 and a DIY Phase Fiber kit as the purchase bonus, and I'm sure that people in the community are willing to offer their own ideas for things to make the fill up feel worthwhile.

Comments

  • This is truly an underwhelming event for what is considered a very large "holiday" in the US. On top of everything Solbane mentioned, I'd like to point out that the only things that will be going on sale in the Black Friday event will be a select few items. EME isn't even putting a discount on cosmetics from the EMP store in game. Those would be some easy sales.

    Let's not forget to mention that most of those Black Friday deal packs are pretty useless to most players that already spend money on the game. And a pack with washing machines for old costumes? Really? The pack that will be on sale on the 22nd and the one on the 25th are the only good ones.

    Come on, EME, give us a bit more incentive to empty our wallets here. Black Friday is a time for crazy sales.

  • DraciusenDraciusen Member
    edited November 20

    The $250 bundle is extremely lackluster, I'll agree. A color-locked Desperado outfit that isn't even the 'vanilla' color for the character (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't even care about the set that much), and a +13 booster that's appeared numerous times in other bundles for cheaper if you really wanted a +13 booster.

    Desperado is a standard outfit with a portrait. I wouldn't even rate it higher than anything you can get in the EMP shop directly, as it doesn't come with anything special (Again, correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't pay attention to the set and EME never highlighted anything about it):

    • Domestic has emote + idle animation
    • Swimsuit has emote
    • Nightmare has a dodge effect
    • Icon has dodge effect and a tiny voice line (never noticed though).

    A +13 Booster is hard to pinpoint a value because it's RNG and can also be obtained in the game through normal means. I'd personally put it at $50-$80, but I'd still say that's an overestimate unless your only method of getting enhance materials is by P2W. Objectively, a +13 is far far more easily obtained than a set of wings or 4/4 accessories. If it was a +14 I dare say that alone would make the $250 worth it, but that also creeps into P2W levels so let's not go there.

    In the end it is just a bonus in addition to the EMP you're getting from the deal, but the bonus is objectively worse than anything has occurred in the past - ironic considering Black Friday should be the biggest deals of the year and surpass everything before it (although in reality, you do tend to find better deals randomly throughout the year if you pay attention in retail). If this is as good as it gets, might as well just wait until December when Zenith is officially released and see if there's any holiday deals for it.

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators

    $250 for those items is depressing.

  • @Draciusen said:
    The $250 bundle is extremely lackluster, I'll agree. A color-locked Desperado outfit that isn't even the 'vanilla' color for the character (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't even care about the set that much), and a +13 booster that's appeared numerous times in other bundles for cheaper if you really wanted a +13 booster.

    Desperado is a standard outfit with a portrait. I wouldn't even rate it higher than anything you can get in the EMP shop directly, as it doesn't come with anything special (Again, correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't pay attention to the set and EME never highlighted anything about it):

    • Domestic has emote + idle animation
    • Swimsuit has emote
    • Nightmare has a dodge effect
    • Icon has dodge effect and a tiny voice line (never noticed though).

    A +13 Booster is hard to pinpoint a value because it's RNG and can also be obtained in the game through normal means. I'd personally put it at $50-$80, but I'd still say that's an overestimate unless your only method of getting enhance materials is by P2W. Objectively, a +13 is far far more easily obtained than a set of wings or 4/4 accessories. If it was a +14 I dare say that alone would make the $250 worth it, but that also creeps into P2W levels so let's not go there.

    In the end it is just a bonus in addition to the EMP you're getting from the deal, but the bonus is objectively worse than anything has occurred in the past - ironic considering Black Friday should be the biggest deals of the year and surpass everything before it (although in reality, you do tend to find better deals randomly throughout the year if you pay attention in retail). If this is as good as it gets, might as well just wait until December when Zenith is officially released and see if there's any holiday deals for it.

    Let's not forget that at least the swimsuit and domestic sets have different hairstyles for each character, and the swimsuit and nightmare sets have portraits. These cowboy costumes are super mediocre in comparison. If you're just going for the EMP, there's no doubt that this is the best deal you'll get, however. It's just sad that we don't get a good bonus for this "big" event.

    I'm not sure what EME will do for Closers, but with TERA they sell some special gift boxes on Christmas. If they do that for Closers, those boxes might actually contain Zenith.

  • Yeah, this deal set is pretty lackluster. Going to ignore it. Not gonna say EME doesn't care about the community over it, but they do seem out of touch with what people would want to buy and likely won't see as many sales as previous years. That includes herself 。。。(ノ_ _)ノ

  • doesnt feel like a black friday deal

  • buy it? ...but why?

  • a +13 booster and a set that's so damn UGLY I could feed it to the dogs, as a bonus is depressing. Just look at last years bonuses, midnight phase wings and other things. This years bonuses for the amount you spending is so damn low that it's clear that EME have stopped giving a damn (not that they have ever done) about the community.

    1. If for some reason the prior three options are out of the question entirely, then at least add SOMETHING to the bundles to make it more appealing. Alpha Equalizers just came out, as did Transcendence 4 and 5. Transcendental Elixirs are in demand. Shape Memory Devices are in demand. Superclock equalizers are in demand. There's a lot of goodies you can add instead of a +13 and a DIY Phase Fiber kit as the purchase bonus, and I'm sure that people in the community are willing to offer their own ideas for things to make the fill up feel worthwhile.

    It was pointed out I put the wrong item here in my rant. HYPERCLOCK equalizers are in demand, not Superclock.

  • lmperfectlmperfect Member
    edited November 20

    Bless you for speaking out on behalf of the community who were extremely excited and hyped to get a good Black Friday sale, but were instead given a package so below sub-par that I would rather get the even less exciting Limited Time deals.

  • @ExValkyrie said:
    Yeah, this deal set is pretty lackluster. Going to ignore it. Not gonna say EME doesn't care about the community over it, but they do seem out of touch with what people would want to buy and likely won't see as many sales as previous years. That includes herself 。。。(ノ_ _)ノ

    Let's not forget this fantastic deal fiasco either: https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/3132/collectors-pack

    I feel like EME are just purposefully making bad deals to get money from the hardcore whales who will buy EMP anyway, then release all the new desirable stuff (Zenith, Lilac) without sales, to double-dip the consumer base. Maybe they don't feel the need to entice consumers with great deals so they can squeeze as much money as possible without 'giving up' too much in return. Except these are all virtual goods that actually don't have a production cost/limited availability.

    I don't think they realize how unlucky the timing of Black Friday is with their update schedule, and how much harder they have to work to get people to spend money now rather than later:

    1. Zenith set is incoming. That alone is enough to dissuade a vast majority of potential spenders to save their money to spend directly on chances to get it. No doubt it's going to be way more popular than Cybernetics, and will easily rival Dark Command.
    2. Luna & Bai are also incoming, and are definitely going to be popular characters. That means those looking to capitalize on selling costumes will also hold off on spending money because it'll be far more profitable to spend money when their costumes are in the pool, and again - Zenith accessories will also be available by then.
    3. We know the holidays have sales. Why spend money on Black Friday when we can wait just a bit more for Christmas to come around and spend money on all the new stuff that comes with it?
    4. Limited Time Deals were also a thing, and they did bring some occasional useful goods like +13 boosters, platinum drivers, accessories, etc. Why would the people who spent money on those to gear up spend money now?
    5. Desperado being the 'featured' washing machine is just a poor choice. Western aesthetic is cool and all, but we're all weebs here. Evening dress would've been a better choice, though I do understand why they didn't go with it since wedding was so recent.
    6. Contamination hell is time-gated. There's no rush to upgrade everything with severely limited entries and only a new handful of new gear to actually upgrade. All of which require items that aren't really featured heavily in the sale (Transcending additives, alpha equalizers). Everybody's Extreme Gear is finished by now, and it'll be awhile until we see Wolfgang raid + Hoffman. Heck, things to catch people up (PNA/Chips) aren't featured in the sale. Really?
  • @Smoreceror said:
    Hi Everyone,

    Thanks for all of the feedback here. We want to make our Black Friday deals exciting for players, so we're super grateful for all of the thoughts around these bundles. While not all of the ideas mentioned are possible this time around, we've made a few adjustments, mainly to the 12,000 and 35,000 EMP tiers:

    • 35,000 EMP Tier: We've added the Dark Command Accessory 4-Piece Set to this tier.
    • 12,000 EMP Tier: We've added a 30-Day Maid Service Voucher and Gardening Voucher to this tier.

    We'll definitely be considering and incorporating other suggestions into future sales. Thank you again for the feedback!

    The ideas mention can be possible if not phrased correctly, given past rewards lets start with some better/more rewards.

    This is Black Friday BLACK FRIDAY once a year (please you'll also do christmas deal but black friday deal should be the best)

    Historically Western (American) Holiday such as Black Friday you expect something that doesn't come back often.

    Guess what you did on the first black friday perm midnight wings. Now that is a normal black friday deal since wings at the time is not guaranteed even at 100 USD Plus of gacha rolls. [It's still not]

    EME/ your market team huge mistake is making deals randomly popping up over time MORE valuable than black friday deal. [Spring deal, winter deal?, germany(ace) deal] You also reintroduce the ace pack that was suppose to be limited but to celebrate team owl release which is reasonable since they shake up the meta hugely (and more valuable to main in the long run)

    • spring deal makes black friday deal look like a joke (original)

    • ace/geramny deal huge value not too expensive if i recall get a better bang for your buck[ Dick move to hide what was in the ace original /germany deal btw in your news tab]

    So at this point what is black friday deal then a guaranteed 35k EMP Deal that isn't the best one for a year and future months until the next black friday????

    you can beat your money that when zenith is release there will be another 35k EMP deal gurantee you a 6/6 4/4 or 10/10 zenith.

    ****Possible Suggestions****

    • 4/4 Cybernetic, 6/6 Cybernetic, 10/10 Cybernetic option or exchange option for the 4/4 SoD box or just change it [SoD should be more valuable, -> 10/10 Exchange for cyber is reasonable seeing as Zenith is going to be released.]

    If not just do a 4/4 cyber until zenith release [to my understanding coding issue exist(your fault for procrastinating and teasing release for a day to get feedback) , then state cyber rewards from 35k EMP Deal only works up to last wolfdog member (violet)]

    • Add another +13 booster, a different coded one to exchange for the following [1 +13 is clearly not enough and if you intend to keep it this way an Option or all 3 Set of the desperado set is more than fair especially with your sudden announcement of zenith(supreme) and s3 gel coming]

    First please compensate S2 Gels, there were many popular gacha in S2 release (portraits,effects bonus, good visuals) comparing to s1 every beta/OG player know this and know to invest more in s2 than s1

    A 1:1 ratio would be heavily valued 1 Season 2 Gel-> 1 Season 3 Gel this will make people wallet/impression of you a lot better you do not/should not follow korean standard of whaling to a Western audience there's a reason (and many more) why Closers isn't as big in the west. Season 1 was reasonable since season 2 rewards were basically the same but you are now tripping the value of people who spend hundreds of dollars for you.

    an Extra + 13 booster if added , should be used to exchange for a free 1 star Perm Wing accessory (trade-able?) this should be possible within next patch

    +13 booster (BF Edition/ a unique version from current one) exchange for the following

    1 star midnight phase wing box[last black friday btw] , and etc. You can also just delete the +13 booster and replace it with wing (but wings value depreciated so maybe add a more limited wing guarantee)

    Possible Wing: iridescent wing, gremory wing, yod domain wing, punisher irina wing

    • Lastly the Scarlet (please change it to Crimson) noticed it was change to advertise a blatant scam to noob consumers

    please enable an exchange for the Midnight desperado set full(dusty being lesser value due to it being similar to mix portrait)

    You could have done a poll or ask around what people prefer since they are equally rare give people what they prefer

    Midnight desperado color scheme is just better for every character /most people visual appeal would prefer the midnight set i guarantee you this.

    If you choose to keep the "crimson" set only it is a dick move and undermine player feedback [especially when you thank people for it after editing the new content to make it more reasonable]

    • Other changes to heavily consider adding

    Season 3 Gel x35 , why is the current 100 USD deal giving 15x like the original spring cleaning 35k (250 USD) emp deal.

    Please look into the discrepancy in some way.

    20 Washing Machine (improved version please if you only give people 1 choice of set) For Desperado Machine

    **** Conclusion ****

    Even with all these changes you are just making the black friday deal somewhat similar to the spring cleaning deal and "better" than the original black friday deal.

    A black friday deal should be a huge sale and hugely limited time deal with a huge purchase reward bonus that gives people what they pay for.

    Consider adding something "new" the +13 booster/ desperado set full isn't that special you would expect something more limited time (+ 13 been given out numerous times) more unique since it is a black friday deal what that be depend on your coding capability.

    And again, the first black friday deal advertised a midnight phase wing 1 star that was a huge value (when wings were worth 1.5bil and above) and many people realistically couldn't spend and afford the wings.

  • side note instead of a guarantee midnight or scarlet desperado set make it rng

    • scarlet

    • midnight

    • dusty

    full set random box (although many would love an option for midnight only) if you not going to offer a limited time set or old set to choose from

  • Compalint No3: Constantly every patch , 2 week btw u release +13 gear boosters in 2k~5k emp deals please consider adding more to the deal still
    not even whales benefit from your current bonuses

  • Better give the whales who pay alot of money costumes, than stuff to get them better stats because they are lazy too farm.
    And especially not Zenith wings, since the price of that ...

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