EnMasse decisions about the game. Please remain positive.

I want to make this post because I want to approach this inevitable post/discussion in a way that benefits all. I am concerned with how people will respond negatively to this change WITHOUT doing anything positive or making a effort to help change the game for the better. People are still going to play Closers and I sincerely wish for this game to succeed. And to EnMasse staff, I pray that you are able to read this and consider making the right decisions and collaborate with veteran players that can give the right input on decisions that differentiate NA from KR. Creativity is good, just need to combine it with input from veteran players before deciding to move on with a plan for action. I know keeping order is important, but this is a crucial time to prove that you care about players and have the ability to make changes in favor of the players.

SoD limited to founders
I understand this decision, you can make money off people, but this is a short-term decision. If it is exclusive to founders only, it means players are forced to pay for content that is locked behind payment. Which supports the general fears of the game becoming pay 2 win. MMOhuts mentioned this in their review and it turned off most commenters when pay aspects were mentioned. Pay content is wonderful when it is voluntary, not imposed. I wish that their fears and accusations be proven to be false.

There are also other considerations
Newer players: What happens to players that join after several months? They are sort of permanently disadvantaged compared to older players and THEY WILL ask about the SoD outfits. Finding out that the outfit was exclusive will leave a bad impression about the game.

Wolfdogs. Although you can keep the costume box as was mentioned in the stream, you must also consider people that do not make that decision. What happens in the case of Nata, Levia, etc. release. When people suddenly develop love for their play style. They should be allowed to have fair access to SoD as well after they decide that wolfdog characters are their thing. it is beneficial to make use of that promotion of their characters when they get released.

Pay 2 win. In all actual reality, I consider pay 2 win that is particularly off-putting as costs that go over $1000 and make huge changes to gameplay. Whilst you can get through the game through hard effort and with less crit damage, the +2 to FM3 is very significant. This does not mean that you should remove it and if you did you prove to the playerbase that you hate them like with what Nexon did to FWT in the first few months. I actually think all of these concerns can be resolved if this change is reverted back to normal.

Additional costumes, what it says. I want to main J but I think the SoD hair for sylvi and tein is nice. If I think that, other players also will love the idea of being able to purchase multiple sod costumes for their main account. It is one thing to make the whole set $150, but if you revert to default system, I think it will have the best possible positive outcome for all players.

What do I think about this pack? I think the pack is great, it is definitely valuetown, but making it exclusive and not achievable for free players later on is not ok. I mean the costume does look great, everyone should be given a fair chance of earning it, it is that good.

What should be done? I think the best possible way to change things is to yes, continue selling the SoD outfit in that founders pack. But do not make it exclusive for this time period only, you are diminishing sales effectively after the initial months. It should also remain obtainable by free players through the synchro fibers, to give them a fair chance and long-term goal to keep them invested.
An example? JP Closers has this halloween event where it allows you to craft the Cybernetic set, but requires large amounts of phase fiber. That is a long-term goal I am willing to invest after I cap the game in NA. If you make it only exclusively available as pay only, you discourage not only free players but incentives to remain invested in the game.
Please consider making use of the default system. It is great as it is. This pack is great (before the stream) and I voluntarily paid happily. That is the sort of happiness that can really make money and keep it stable long-term

Additionally mentioned in the stream was weekly stamina.
I decided to give it a try before commenting but after the stream, I have come to the understanding that weekly stamina will give all of the stamina for the week and there will be no account stamina.
Great! But only on the account stamina. If you combine the two, it will end up making players bored with the game. The reason I say this is, if you can cap in 1 day with one character, then that means you can cap 5 characters in just 5 days. Which does not space the game out over the couple of months to keep a player invested. Stamina was fine before (minus account stamina) its just the changes were made to appeal to people whom have not experienced cap or endgame content which is a majority. I am sure you will properly receive feedback after the testing phase, but this is just my prediction with what the weekly stamina looks so far to me.

Everyone please keep this discussion constructive and seek ways for positive suggestions. I want the game environment to improve not just for myself, but for players that remain, players in the future and those that are turned off. Only providing negative comments does not help anyone, so please help make the game better.

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Comments

  • I posted this first, but not as diverse as you, so I win, ha.

    SoD exclusive to ace is still wonky

  • As much as i want to seek positive things i cant find any:

    NONEXISTING CONTENT: Our cap is lv 60 my question is what was done in those 8 weeks between start of Alpha and begining of Beta? whats new in the game?, Pretty much nothing we will be stuck with stage 4 plane gate as our true endgame. Thats not fine at all. Made me play less in Alpha after the first week since i achieved my goal of getting the stuff and was locked behind nothing to do for rest of the 5 weekends. Personally i hate that and wants me to remain somewhere else then spend money for me to be bored within few days.

    The ACE pack thats a big step into the wrong direction once i found out that you will get a costume that is EXCLUSIVE for this pack and you cant get it for the time being anywhere else another letdown.The set effect does in fact give you a big advantage over not having such costume. Lets face it not everyone can spend 150 bucks for a pack + our sweet VAT for EU players. Sure there are other things like Premium and EMP but the costume is something that is available to everyone on other servers but we have to different.

    Lv 30 skills being still nonexistend For the love of god how is this still not being craftable or do we have to pay for it to?

    Weekly stamina great those busy can play their 2 nights to waste what if i want to play daily and run out of stamina in the middle of the week i will just watch my ACE SOD costume in the hubs and que in dead PvP? Because the few people that were being limited by daily stamina which works perfectly fine anywhere else.

    I have loads more of these complains but i guess they will not work on it regardless i try to throw them at them or not. Sorry i couldn't find anything positive but this is how i feel i rather buy a 5 bucks nexon account then play this

  • @Natorious said:
    Weekly stamina great those busy can play their 2 nights to waste what if i want to play daily and run out of stamina in the middle of the week i will just watch my ACE SOD costume in the hubs and que in dead PvP? Because the few people that were being limited by daily stamina which works perfectly fine anywhere else.

    I have loads more of these complains but i guess they will not work on it regardless i try to throw them at them or not. Sorry i couldn't find anything positive but this is how i feel i rather buy a 5 bucks nexon account then play this

    You did find something positive. I did not consider that the weekly stamina changes would affect PVP queues as well, that is a good finding that you have made there and I hope this further supports positive changes to the stamina system.

  • In addition to specifically saving the SoD box for Wolf Dogs. I was paying very close attention and he didn't 100% confirm you'd be able to save it, he said it was his "gut feeling" that you could and you should be able to "in theory" but he doesn't seem to know for sure. Good news is he at least said he'd leave an answer in forums... I just hope he remembers since this is probably the most important thing to me considering SoD is no longer craftable.

  • SOD outfits need to be exclusive if I'm paying. $149.99 I want something no one else will be able to get. That's why I'm paying for it.

    To all the freeloaders there's this thing, that productive members of society do for a living it's called a job.

  • @alex33x said:
    SOD outfits need to be exclusive if I'm paying. $149.99 I want something no one else will be able to get. That's why I'm paying for it.

    To all the freeloaders there's this thing, that productive members of society do for a living it's called a job.

    Was wondering when this argument would come out.

  • @alex33x said:
    SOD outfits need to be exclusive if I'm paying. $149.99 I want something no one else will be able to get. That's why I'm paying for it.

    To all the freeloaders there's this thing, that productive members of society do for a living it's called a job.

    I can understand the joy of feeling exclusive. At the same time it will be somewhat sad if no one is in hub or party to appreciate it, which might prevent you from investing more money into the game

  • Caution: Unpopular opinions, and hard truths ahead (Gunna need to start labeling this stuff)

    There's MULTIPLE ways to play the game before hand and try your hand at Nata, Harpy, and the rest of the WDs....people getting all pissy cause they opened it for their first mains seems more like shortsightedness than it being unfair. If it's exclusive....it's exclusive (Never mind the people around you screaming about these unreleased characters, the resources at your fingtips, or the fact that there's tons of stuff on Youtube). You paid for it to be exclusive to you. There's tons of things i want in other games and will never be able to get because i wasn't playing when it released. It's something that comes with the territory of being late to the party, and just because someone thinks it looks cool doesn't mean the exclusivity tag should just come off. Either way, i don't care if they make it a gacha/mystery box thing. The full set available to current players through cheap "When you think about it" packages in contrast to spending potentially thousands of dollars is nice. If they do this then release it through gacha like it usually is in other places i see no problem. They could even mess with the probability for all i care and make it a 0.0001%. It makes EME money then. As long as that's how they handle the rare costumes then it'll still be pretty exclusive cause only kids armed with their mother's credit card will have that kind of "I want it, dammit" drive.

    New players, aren't "Permanently disadvantaged".....there's other rare costumes, and those will definitely be on sale with the same buffs....if not better. The only thing they miss out on is the look, but most people think those look better than SoD anyway soooo........if you're that much of an edgelord then i guess this is a problem? I personally don't see how it leaves a bad impression. No one who will actually play the game should care about a single costume (That they probably couldn't afford anyway, so it'd HAVE to be obtained freely some way) so much that they up and quit. You're not really playing the game to play the game then are you? You're just playing because your character looks kinda cool and that'll wear off eventually.

    Still caught up on the WD one though. How exactly is it a problem that YOU can't make up your mind on if you want to buy the costume or not for future characters? You have Youtube, millions of pictures, The server which shall not be named, the KR server, etc.... Go play the character and make a choice....it's not rocket science. NO ONE is stopping you from experimenting with stuff and it's literally the reason i already know who i want the costumes for, cause i sure as hell wasn't spending money on "unofficial" stuff. Is the average joe ALWAYS that unprepared? This is why people think life is hard, huh?

    I don't know. I don't think one costume, people fairly paid for, because they were here for the sale, can cause a game to crumble I also don't think the slow should just be given all these chances cause they find it incredibly hard to make simple choices, or actually test something before they buy it. But hey, it's america, and people have the right to complain, whine, moan, and be as stupid as they like.

  • Perfect action add SoD, Cybernetic set 30-50$ any time buy.

  • @TheUsernameIsTaken said:

    @alex33x said:
    SOD outfits need to be exclusive if I'm paying. $149.99 I want something no one else will be able to get. That's why I'm paying for it.

    To all the freeloaders there's this thing, that productive members of society do for a living it's called a job.

    I can understand the joy of feeling exclusive. At the same time it will be somewhat sad if no one is in hub or party to appreciate it, which might prevent you from investing more money into the game

    That's more of a "The rest of the game thing"...not a "SoD is exclusive so i'm not playing" thing. That's "the stamina system sucks" thing. A "There's no real end game" thing. Some "Level 30 skills still no where to be found" thing.

    If the SoD has such a cataclysmic impact on the game i will think even less of gamers than i do now. And i say even less, because the only thing that's actually concerning on the SoD set....is +2 on your official agent move, and unless you're hard-coring those dungeon times i see no reason to worry about it anywhere since there's a cap to most anything and everything in PvP

  • GrationGration Member
    edited November 2017

    @Revork said:
    Perfect action add SoD, Cybernetic set 30-50$ any time buy.

    what trees are you smoking, and who's your dealer cause you have to be getting it cheap and in large amounts for such an idea

  • I don't thik it will reamin exclusive when Nata is out they will release a pack with BoD for him or put for sale on store for all characters otherwise it won't make any sense.

  • NyxSinNyxSin Member
    edited November 2017

    @Yoburi said:
    I don't thik it will reamin exclusive when Nata is out they will release a pack with BoD for him or put for sale on store for all characters otherwise it won't make any sense.

    I hope so, SoD shouldn't be exclusive anyway.

  • GrationGration Member
    edited November 2017

    @NyxSin said:

    @Yoburi said:
    I don't thik it will reamin exclusive when Nata is out they will release a pack with BoD for him or put for sale on store for all characters otherwise it won't make any sense.

    I hope so, SoD shouldn't be exclusive anyway.

    people are so caught up in their feelings they're forgetting that the WD's set is "completely" different

  • @Gration said:
    That's more of a "The rest of the game thing"...not a "SoD is exclusive so i'm not playing" thing. That's "the stamina system sucks" thing. A "There's no real end game" thing. Some "Level 30 skills still no where to be found" thing.

    If the SoD has such a cataclysmic impact on the game i will think even less of gamers than i do now. And i say even less, because the only thing that's actually concerning on the SoD set....is +2 on your official agent move, and unless you're hard-coring those dungeon times i see no reason to worry about it anywhere since there's a cap to most anything and everything in PvP

    Oh I meant that, I could see where you are coming from with your initial post, but the choice that only caters towards payers will alienate the rest. The game will feel lonely at that point and you did point out, yes there are a lot of contributing factors, hence the reason why I am suggesting and pointing out things to benefit the game for most players to enjoy.

    And your 2nd part of your post, yes you are right, it hardly matters on pvp if at all. I do admit that the coolness or some of the hairs that the SoD set provides will make people want the set. If they are shown the sign of exclusive only, then I can sort of understand how this will hugely impact the majority of players that are not willing to pay a large sum as opposed to partial or completely free means.

    Also yes WD set is different, but only in looks. The items are the same. Just got confirmation from KR players.

  • Sorry for the dumb question, but whats WD?

  • @NyxSin said:
    Sorry for the dumb question, but whats WD?

    WolfDog, so like Nata, Levia, Harpy, Tina, Violet.

  • @NyxSin said:
    Sorry for the dumb question, but whats WD?

    wolfdogs the 2 nd team

  • @TheUsernameIsTaken said:

    @Gration said:
    That's more of a "The rest of the game thing"...not a "SoD is exclusive so i'm not playing" thing. That's "the stamina system sucks" thing. A "There's no real end game" thing. Some "Level 30 skills still no where to be found" thing.

    If the SoD has such a cataclysmic impact on the game i will think even less of gamers than i do now. And i say even less, because the only thing that's actually concerning on the SoD set....is +2 on your official agent move, and unless you're hard-coring those dungeon times i see no reason to worry about it anywhere since there's a cap to most anything and everything in PvP

    Oh I meant that, I could see where you are coming from with your initial post, but the choice that only caters towards payers will alienate the rest. The game will feel lonely at that point and you did point out, yes there are a lot of contributing factors, hence the reason why I am suggesting and pointing out things to benefit the game for most players to enjoy.

    And your 2nd part of your post, yes you are right, it hardly matters on pvp if at all. I do admit that the coolness or some of the hairs that the SoD set provides will make people want the set. If they are shown the sign of exclusive only, then I can sort of understand how this will hugely impact the majority of players that are not willing to pay a large sum as opposed to partial or completely free means.

    Also yes WD set is different, but only in looks. The items are the same. Just got confirmation from KR players.

    It caters towards payers in other versions too. if everyone ONLY wanted the 6/6 set then this would have some validity to it, but you have to pay out for the 10/10 set. Everyone here doesn't JUST want the 6/6 set and want the entire set to be free from what i'm reading. This is, again, a bunch of more or less F2P players crying over something they'd have had to pay for in other versions anyway (since you combine already owned costumes for the set then gacha the accessories. Hell you could pay 600 bucks for just the accessories and walk away with like...2).

    Like...you just saying i'm right doesn't mean we still won't have a TON and i mean TONNNNN of people crying. The internet needs to grow up.

  • YourCatYourCat Member
    edited November 2017

    @Gration said:
    Caution: Unpopular opinions, and hard truths ahead (Gunna need to start labeling this stuff)

    I mean I agree with a lot of your points, but it sounds like most of it is about adapting the individual player's mindset and behaviour? That's all well and good but like you've said, not all consumers are rational and Enmasse isn't the only supplier of Closers/there are other servers available. That's like jacking up your prices and limiting product availability when there's already a very cheap version of the same thing on the market. As OP implied, in the end Enmasse can choose to do whatever they want. Something like this probably wouldn't "crumble the game" by itself, but it could add to player dissatisfaction and contribute to things in the long run.

  • @YourCat said:

    @Gration said:
    Caution: Unpopular opinions, and hard truths ahead (Gunna need to start labeling this stuff)

    I mean I agree with a lot of your points, but it sounds like most of it is about adapting the individual player's mindset and behaviour? That's all well and good but like you've said, not all consumers are rational and Enmasse isn't the only supplier of Closers/there are other servers available. That's like jacking up your prices and limiting product availability when there's already a very cheap version of the same thing on the market. As OP implied, in the end Enmasse can choose to do whatever they want. Something like this probably wouldn't "crumble the game" by itself, but it could add to player dissatisfaction and contribute to things in the long run.

    "A very cheap thing when it's already in market" i mean......you have to be talking about THAT server because if you're not even smart enough to do all the other stuff i mentioned, i doubt you're going to even have the mental fortitude to play a game in korean, let alone be able to dig up a guide and competently follow it through to play. Focusing on that one server alone though, idk...people might dump money into that game but its skills aren't even up to date and you have to wait like....10 levels to even be able to use some stuff in the air which is ridiculously stifling if you didn't know.. IDK along with it being unofficial i also hated that aspect. I literally just used it to test stuff out and wait for this. if you're fine with ALLL the draw backs then...good for you for not spending 150 bucks i guess? Time to hit up burger king or something.

    It's player dissatisfaction....when none of the players know what the hell is going on further down the line. Like...people just annoy me cause they're so damn shortsighted, and don't even know that there's literally 2 versions of this costume, and that EME could literally rename the founders pack costume....then turn around and sell splendor of darkness like some back ally scam artist and still be true to their word.

    all in all it's just a bunch of idiots wanting something for free. No more, no less and this ALWAYS happens.

  • It's player dissatisfaction....when none of the players know what the hell is going on further down the line. Like...people just annoy me cause they're so damn shortsighted, and don't even know that there's literally 2 versions of this costume, and that EME could literally rename the founders pack costume....then turn around and sell splendor of darkness like some back ally scam artist and still be true to their word.

    Thing is, like you said we don't know what's actually going to happen. It may or may not potentially end up adding to things, but that's entirely dependent on how EME chooses to handle things further down the line.

    if you're not even smart enough to do all the other stuff i mentioned, i doubt you're going to even have the mental fortitude to play a game in korean

    Personal attacks aside, the example you mentioned might be the closest alternative to EME's Closers for a number of players. As a side note, you don't exactly need to learn the language to play a game, so it might not be limited to just that server.

    all in all it's just a bunch of idiots wanting something for free. No more, no less and this ALWAYS happens.

    That's an awful lot of stereotyping. Just like how EME can choose to do whatever they want, the same thing goes for players. Generally, making your customer base unhappy isn't a good thing to be doing unless it's only temporary.

  • ^You know there is more than the pirate serve i am pretty sure he meant the Korea or Chinese version that most people play the whole set there is pretty cheap by now you can buy a acessories there for 200.000.000 in game cash.

    I think the mistake they did on this ACE pack is how they made the whole costume exclusive when it should be only the acessories, folks should be able to craft there 6 pieces the normal way like in all versions but to get the nice picture, vitory pose and bonus DMG critical you must buy the ACE pack because thats the only way to get the acessories.

    But i can say for sure they will release these costumes again when the wolfdogs show up more a much cheaper price even Spacecat didn't know if you buy 10 ACE packs you could use them for the Wolfdogs so they aren't thinking that ahead so when they said "exclusive" it also meant "for now".

  • GrationGration Member
    edited November 2017

    @YourCat said:

    It's player dissatisfaction....when none of the players know what the hell is going on further down the line. Like...people just annoy me cause they're so damn shortsighted, and don't even know that there's literally 2 versions of this costume, and that EME could literally rename the founders pack costume....then turn around and sell splendor of darkness like some back ally scam artist and still be true to their word.

    Thing is, like you said we don't know what's actually going to happen. It may or may not potentially end up adding to things, but that's entirely dependent on how EME chooses to handle things further down the line.

    if you're not even smart enough to do all the other stuff i mentioned, i doubt you're going to even have the mental fortitude to play a game in korean


    Personal attacks aside, the example you mentioned might be the closest alternative to EME's Closers for a number of players. As a side note, you don't exactly need to learn the language to play a game, so it might not be limited to just that server.

    all in all it's just a bunch of idiots wanting something for free. No more, no less and this ALWAYS happens.

    That's an awful lot of stereotyping. Just like how EME can choose to do whatever they want, the same thing goes for players. Generally, making your customer base unhappy isn't a good thing to be doing unless it's only temporary.

    wasn't actually talking about you....but this is the internet....misunderstandings happen. i suppose i should have replaced "You're" with "Someone" lol

  • @Yoburi said:
    ^You know there is more than the pirate serve i am pretty sure he meant the Korea or Chinese version that most people play the whole set there is pretty cheap by now you can buy a acessories there for 200.000.000 in game cash.

    I think the mistake they did on this ACE pack is how they made the whole costume exclusive when it should be only the acessories, folks should be able to craft there 6 pieces the normal way like in all versions but to get the nice picture, vitory pose and bonus DMG critical you must buy the ACE pack because thats the only way to get the acessories.

    But i can say for sure they will release these costumes again when the wolfdogs show up more a much cheaper price even Spacecat didn't know if you buy 10 ACE packs you could use them for the Wolfdogs so they aren't thinking that ahead so when they said "exclusive" it also meant "for now".

    they're not thinking that far ahead and the playerbase is thinking only like 2 steps ahead. so much for planning

  • Anyone with CBT key giveaway? I would greatly appreciate it.

  • HastrerHastrer Member
    edited November 2017

    OK i will tell you guys what really happened, and that is the true:

    FIRST, no one on enm EVER played closer before, what really happened was:

    A ramdom guy from enm was playing ALPHA, the he saw someone with the SoD and he thought "HEY, really cool costume... HEY SPACECATS LOOK AT THIS COSTUME, pretty sick Right? Since it's just a costume, why don't we make it founders only?"

    But because no one on emn ever play the game they have, they did not know the mistake they was going to make.

  • @Hastrer said:
    OK i will tell you guys what really happened, and that is the true:

    FIRST, no one on enm EVER played closer before, what really happened was:

    A ramdom guy from enm was playing ALPHA, the he saw someone with the SoD and he thought "HEY, really cool costume... HEY SPACECATS LOOK AT THIS COSTUME, pretty sick Right? Since it's just a costume, why don't we make it founders only?"

    But because no one on emn ever play the game they have, they did not know the mistake they was going to make.

    it's like sesame street for how babies are born.

  • ^They didn't even corfirm if Nata could get this BoD for sure folks are taking the word "exclusive" way too serious besides if they dont give BoD on ACE pack is there anything woth 150$ bucks besides BoD that we saw on Alpha.

  • @Yoburi said:
    ^They didn't even corfirm if Nata could get this BoD for sure folks are taking the word "exclusive" way too serious besides if they dont give BoD on ACE pack is there anything woth 150$ bucks besides BoD that we saw on Alpha.

    Who is this to? ^ doesn't really help when 10 people can comment in 2 seconds

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