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Bai Release Date Discussion

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Comments

  • This thread has pushed itself quite far hasn't it?

    From what I could see, Volunteer Mods (when did EME get them?) and staff has been doing some post pruning as well.

    Interesting. Things got heated it seems... and it still is. This just means that I most likely would have missed posts that are deleted...

    Let us lay out some facts here.

    • Bai Winchester is slated to be released some time in Q2 (Quarter 2, for those unaware. This encompasses April, May, and June. This represents the 'quarterly' divide that is natural to our month structure)

    • It has been confirmed that Bai Winchester has been planned for Q2 all this time.

    • The release schedule is a departure from 2018's blistering release pace

    • Fans of Bai Winchester are giving feedback in protest of the change in pace of releases. They want Bai Winchester to release a lot sooner (Q1).

    Stripped to bare bones and any kind of excuses, I believe this sorts out all the facts that pertains this topic. Now, lets go deeper.

    One of the issues that seems to creep up, it seems, is the fact that there are users in this thread that refer to the Q2 release of Bai Winchester as "delayed". They point to the fact that the projected release date of Bai Winchester does not match with historical trends.

    Lets step back for a bit and examine the definition of "Delay" from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (attainable via Google)

    Delay

    The act of postponing, hindering, or causing something to occur more slowly than normal : the state of being delayed

    From this, it can be seen that by using the word "Delay" or any of its derivatives, there has to be an action that would "...postponing, hindering, or causing something to occur more slowly than normal". However, it was made clear by @BearShoes that Bai Winchester has always been scheduled to be released at the Second Quarter (aka Q2).

    I believe that this feeling of "Bai Winchester is delayed" stems from the disconnect from the release schedule of 2018 to the current release schedule. While it is understandable, I believe that it has been commented many times in the past (from what I have seen lurking around) that 2018's release schedule is unsustainable and would result in a slow down in releases in the future. It just so happens that Bai Winchester is unfortunately caught up in this slow down.

    Is it right or is it wrong? Is it right to feel indignant for Bai Winchester being released later than what is expected and to demand an earlier release date? Or is it wrong to feel entitled for an earlier Bai Winchster release and those that do are ignorant whiners? I think this is not a question that is answered with a "Yes" or a "No". This key question is also the root of all the conflicts that arises from this thread. Make no mistake nor quarter on it.

    At the very base of it, Fans of characters in games will stand by their chosen figure and would fight tooth and nail for it. This is the same principle for any one that is a big enough fan of any given subject. For Anime fans, who is the best 'Waifu' (Rem from Re:Zero, Toradora's Aisaka Taiga, Rei Ayanami from Evangelion, and countless more)? For Train enthusiasts, Old Steam Trains vs Super Modern Mag-Levs? For Car Enthsiasts, what is the 'best' muscle car?

    For a more relevant tone, how would users feel if THEIR main is the one that got caught up in the "content pace slowdown"? For all the Tina mains, how would you have felt if Harpy won? For all the Luna mains, what if Bai Winchester has actually replaced your precious Luna Aegis in content release? For all the Misteltein fans, what if, by some miracle of god and content planning, he is the one in the line of the slow down?

    Players who are fans of Bai Winchester is expected to react this way. They are not getting their chosen one at a pace they thought they would. Whenever this kind of sentiment is right or wrong is not for me to decide. However, to expect anything else is illogical. Admittedly as illogical as not realizing that content WILL start to slow down and didn't think that Bai Winchester might be in the firing line when she wasn't released in 2018. But that's not something for me to decide nor can anyone really do so. Humanity is illogical that way.

    Now, I have seen that some calls for an EME released poll (some suggesting to make it 'mandatory') to determine if a majority of players prefer to have Bai Winchester released or is content with the current release schedule. I for one think that this is not the way to go. Why? Read on.

    Now, let us actually push back the biggest reason why to NOT have such a thing, delaying it (and using the word in the right context), and examine the smaller, more specific problems with it.

    The first one is general Bias.

    Let me just be clear and out front here: People will always want a new character release, no matter what kind of character it is. This is through many reasons. On other games, it is to shake up the meta. It is to have a new character to pick and challenge the game (and people) with. It is a sign for people that more content is on the horizon. For more Closers specific reasons, it signals a new EMP level up reward event. It is a new opportunity to have another dress up doll to fashion up. It is a new Teamwork buff. I am sure there is more reasons that I failed to list out.

    Basically, people will vote to release a new character early. It does not matter that it is "Bai Winchester" or "Sekhmet" or the newest character of a new Closers team. Through various reasons, they will vote to release early. That is Bias. Doing a poll such as this would just confirm that "people want a new character" instead of "people want Bai Winchester". It just so happen that, in this poll, Bai Winchester is the new character. It does not fit into the whole rational of doing the poll to prove that Bai Winchester is as desired as people claim her to be or not.

    -Post Cut-

    It seems that my words has become too long. I will be cutting this post into two. This is part 1 of 2

  • -Post Resume-

    It seems that my words has become too long. This is the 2nd part of 2 of a single post. I apologize for the double post this causes.

    The second problem is general "apathy of the majority".

    Despite what the fans of Bai Winchester might claim a majority (and I have seen this very same phenomenon happen in various other sources in the internet and in real life examples. One only has to watch the news to see it), it is in truth more of a "Majority filled with fans of Bai Winchester". Is it a bad thing? Not in its essentials. Being a fan of a character is normal and something of a standard in today's society (once again, pointing towards the 'Waifu Wars'). But it poses a risk to the impartiality of a poll and its actual representation.

    Those who will vote in a poll has a vested interest in its outcome. Any poll is like that on any case, severity, or scale. However, for those who do not care, They will not vote. They have no interest nor inclination to get involved in such a thing. This is called the "Silent Majority" (sources from dictionary.com, Wikipedia, and Merriam-Webster as you see fit to pursue)

    In this context, I find that the Wikipedia page (and the source of this quote from Cambridge Dictionaries Online) to be the most relevant definition of the term in this context:

    The silent majority is an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly.

    or if you prefer the Cambridge Dictionaries Online version:

    ...a large number of people who have not expressed an opinion about something

    I believe that no matter what the result of the vote itself, either a majority vote of people wins to have the option of having Bai Winchester released earlier or having the majority vote of people wins to have the current release schedule stay, there will be a large portion of the game population to simply not care and not vote.

    Making the vote "mandatory" or "with incentive" will just bring up the problem of the first point and the last point.

    This leads us to the last and most important point

    EnMasse Entertainment already said they will not do another voting event

    You might be wondering "Hey Fate, where and when did anyone from EME say they will not do a poll for Bai Winchester?" Admittedly, they have a right to ask that question because EME has NOT said such a thing. However, I would like to take you all back to another time in the past.

    The Harpy vs Tina Event

    I will not go into details (this post is super gigantic as it is already) but people who have been there could and would attest to the Salt, Vitrol, Trolling, Drama, and outright attacks on each other solely based on who they voted for and represented to the wider community. It was such a bloodbath that EME has declared that they will NOT do such a thing ever again in the future.

    What users here are suggesting is basically another such Event. If it is not mandatory, the vote will suffer from Point 1 & 2's problem and the fact that, in essence, EME has gotten back on their word. If it IS mandatory or with incentives, then it is the Tina vs Harpy Event all over again, along with EME going back on their word either way.

    This is the biggest reason why EME will NOT do an "Offiical Poll" and I believe they never will.

    I will end this here. It has gone for far too long and it is just an essay at this point. However, I hope that people read this and realize as to where things stand in this argument and find their own conclusions on this point.

    Before I end this, I have to put out an observation of mine.

    It seems to be that, for the lack of a better term, the "Pro-Bai" side is highly cohesive and organized in their attempts to push their agenda. To the point that I would take a guess that they are a group of people who regularly converse with each other (most likely in a chat service like Discord or TS) and are putting up a concentrated effort to be uniform in their messaging and, again for the lack of a better term, "attacks" on those who oppose them. I also have seen a message and tone shift from their earlier posts (and their responses to opposition) to the current ones of passive aggressiveness to have happen when it was clear that 1) Forum Moderator Hime posted his/her response to posts by various people like "Solbane" and "Rumor" and 2) EME Staff BearShoes is looking at things.

    Does this say something? Not really. Such a thing is natural after all. However, it is an observation of mine that I would like to point out. Whatever happens is not my call nor do I mind. It is just me who has an observation to share.

  • @FateTertium said:
    [...]

    Well spoken. Most of your thoughts on the matter are similar to mine, so I don't have to respond to the points you made.
    The others should listen to the things that FateAverruncus said and think about it (and I hope that nobody feels offended by any of their words. I don't see anything that could be potentially offensive).

  • Interesting. I stand corrected in regards to the TW server. Thanks for the link.

  • Hello everyone.

    It seems that some people have indeed read my essay-like posts and I do appreciate it. Feedback on my own thoughts and observations are greatly encouraged and I hope to put myself on a mindset where, if approached with a problem or an ask of opinion at a certain subject, I will be able to answer them in a complete way in which others can accept them, even if it might be contrary to other's thoughts and opinions.

    Time to address some things however, seeing that there are some points that does need discussing.

    My own observation is my own. If it is considered wrong by others, I will accept that and we will need to agree to disagree. Interactions with other humans will always come up in conflict at some point in one or another. It is unavoidable and I, personally, have come to expect it and do not hold ill will towards anyone who disagree on my points or observations.

    In regards to the observation of collusion between, for the lack of a better term, "Pro-Bai" faction in this thread; It is an honest observation with how I see things and on how uniform and cohesive the messaging is. While admittedly there might not be direct, active, and deliberate action towards it, one cannot deny that this observation of cohesion and uniformity to be untrue. It just makes me wonder if there is such a wide-spread modus operandi (for those curious, this is the Merriam-Webster definition of it) being spread either actively or inactively.

    It is me merely speculating and if there is no such thing for a particular user(s) circumstances, then I accept that and believe you. It just merely makes me wonder if there is such a thing. It does not mean that I have any evidence to support such a claim beyond my own observations.

    As I have already said on the very same topic:

    "Does this say something? Not really. Such a thing is natural after all. However, it is an observation of mine that I would like to point out. Whatever happens is not my call nor do I mind. It is just me who has an observation to share."

    Please understand as to where I am coming from in such context.

    As for the polling situation...

    I have to admit that I am not aware of such polls that are referenced as proof and I would like to have links to said polls and what not to confirm the sources and context of them.

    However, I would like to keep a few things in mind

    The points I have already made still stands in light of this

    General Bias and the Silent Majority points still stands due to the inherent nature of polls and taking the opinions of people. Entire careers are based upon taking people's opinions and making something out of them. Dedicated companies are created to gather all this data and to present them in an unbiased and objective way (as much as is possible). However, one only needs to see how even with all of this extensive safeguards and efforts, polling results might not match up with actual results.

    The platforms cited are most probably closed communities

    Now I have to admit that I might be wrong on this one. However, unless such polls are conducted under the umbrellas of licensed publishing companies (ie Happy Tuk, EME, Nexon, Megaxus) and/or the game developer (in this context, Naddic Games/NK Studio), I will be giving a bit of hesitance to be using them as a sample for the larger player base.

    Now, I am not underestimating the popularity of Bai Winchester; I am very much well aware on how loved she is at Korea and it is not insignificant. However, these conducted polls are most likely done under a small sample of a community who is 1) aware of said community in that platform and 2) bothered enough to vote on it. Unless one can boast that it was officially picked up/advertised/vouched for by an official in one of the aforementioned Publishing Companies or Developers, I am putting notice that the sampling size for that source might be skewed and statically impossible to be used for extrapolation of the broader Closers community world wide. Saying that, It can be done of course. However, the validity, plausibility, and rational will not hold up to standards that is established by various companies for objectivity and accuracy.

    At the end of it, I will really be more than happy to have links and access to said polls so I can do my own investigations and conclusions on them. I might be wrong after all!

    Also, as an aside, the poll thing is NOT the only observation I have made. However, if that is the subject you choose to focus on, I appreciate it either way

    On the other points, I cannot comment. It is their very own personal choice to decide and enact. I have no right to tell anyone what, how, or where they should play their games. Discussing it, for me, is moot point and beyond the scope that I am willing to shoulder

    I hope this finds everyone well and have a great moment of your time. Thank you!

  • @Meowtingbard said:
    Well guys, I saw there is a Newly created Poll running in an Facebook Global Group just 22 mins ago Today (Consist of Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea, and North America Server players international) which I just join. The Poll is about Bai and Seth in Demand.
    You guys can see the result there. I believe it will be an interesting and accurate post.
    This show how popular Bai is not just in Korea.
    I believe you can't say General Bias and the Silent Majority points still stands anymore.

    Currently Bai 71 Votes - Seth 28 Votes (Poll is still ongoing and more votes to comes)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/

    Part of me feels like there is some bias in the poll, partially because of this issue with her release date and partially because Seth hasn't been around long enough to get all of her promotions (rather, she, to my current knowledge, doesn't have SA yet so she isn't at the height of her abilities yet). Seth is still new so I'd imagine her popularity would be lower than Bai, who's been out for about half a year already in KR.

  • @Butsanot said:

    @Orenglaive said:

    @Meowtingbard said:
    Well guys, I saw there is a Newly created Poll running in an Facebook Global Group just 22 mins ago Today (Consist of Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea, and North America Server players international) which I just join. The Poll is about Bai and Seth in Demand.
    You guys can see the result there. I believe it will be an interesting and accurate post.
    This show how popular Bai is not just in Korea.
    I believe you can't say General Bias and the Silent Majority points still stands anymore.

    Currently Bai 71 Votes - Seth 28 Votes (Poll is still ongoing and more votes to comes)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/

    Part of me feels like there is some bias in the poll, partially because of this issue with her release date and partially because Seth hasn't been around long enough to get all of her promotions (rather, she, to my current knowledge, doesn't have SA yet so she isn't at the height of her abilities yet). Seth is still new so I'd imagine her popularity would be lower than Bai, who's been out for about half a year already in KR.

    Clearly, you have not been updated yourself with the current content in Korea just for the sake to keep arguing and opposed Bai even with evidence presented. Seth already have her promotion Special agent and her cap level is max out.

    Although, you also have to understand, if you are in the Facebook group; you will know that this is just their usual fun daily activities on poll with the community in there with those Koreans, Taiwanese, Indonesian, some NA players in there. There is no clear indication that this poll is meant to debate anything at all.

    Not once did I say it was meant to debate anything. And no, I've been busy with other games and haven't paid attention to KR closers for a while, thus why I said "to my current knowledge". I'm not in the facebook group either since I haven't actually used facebook in... probably 2 or 3 years? I'm not trying to argue anything, I just felt there actually was a bias given the information I had. @Meowtingbard gave me some evidence so I'm satisfied anyways.

  • PengyzPengyz Member
    edited January 25

    3 month old fb group

    cool.

    87 + 29 = 116 total votes

    okay.

    1319 members

    ...

    116/1319 = 8.8% response rate

    ...

    There is no silent majority

    8.8% response rate

    Let's see how far this goes.

  • -Shows statics > @Meowtingbard said:

    Let me now speak in a constructive manner.
    1) Facebook Group is a group where players gathers, and if they lost interests of the game, they will not be active in the group and most of them will still remains in the group.
    2) Why do I share the link - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/ of the Polling Results was because it will be a more accurate Statistic to let the players knows whether Bai or Seth is more Popular as I came across the Post earlier today.
    3) Talking with no supporting documents on real statistic are just empty talks. So we need to actually talk with supporting proof so that the Public can know what is going on.
    4) As stated earlier, whatever stated here are meant for the benefits for the Game.
    5) If Members keep on debating with one another just for the sake of winning like what the rest say. This Place is no longer a place for players to voice out their concern. Why not just declare it as your own Ideal world and Isolate yourself in the comfort zone.

    Updated for the Public to view: Current Votes now is 106 Votes on Bai and 35 votes on Seth.

    Not like I want to ruin your party but...The poll is to know who is more beloved, to simplify who people prefer (And there is no other characters involved only seth and bai) Some people stated before why a poll like this is not the best way to say (or prove) that bai is the most beloved character in all the game and that is the character the majority want only because is winning in a poll of "Who do you prefer seth or bai" That doesn´t have any context to prove your point or the point of the "Pro-bai" and reminds me to the awful harpy vs tina (That was a war and today almost nobody main those two characters lol).

    My point is that nobody has absolute reason about this but you always act and say things like you do and that´s not good.

    Don´t get me wrong. I want to use bai very bad, I am main Mistel but I only main him and every other character released until this day it´s boring to me but when I see bai I see a submain or even a main if I feel good using her so no, I don´t want to get her in April or later, and no. I have nothing against "Pro-bai" because I want her (Already spend like 2.5B credits preparing for her and will be a lot more.) but I don´t like how you are handling things right now and I like to think in an objective way, thing that you are not doing right now using that poll to hold your position and statements like it´s the absolute true.

    And yes, I know "Pro-bai" did get some bad words earlier in this thread and that´s not good.

    PD: I think it will be great if we get her atleast 1 month earlier than it says in the roadmap...That would be a really nice surprise.

  • Vincentv95Vincentv95 Member
    edited January 25

    @Meowtingbard said:

    @Vincentv95 said:
    -Shows statics > @Meowtingbard said:

    Let me now speak in a constructive manner.
    1) Facebook Group is a group where players gathers, and if they lost interests of the game, they will not be active in the group and most of them will still remains in the group.
    2) Why do I share the link - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/ of the Polling Results was because it will be a more accurate Statistic to let the players knows whether Bai or Seth is more Popular as I came across the Post earlier today.
    3) Talking with no supporting documents on real statistic are just empty talks. So we need to actually talk with supporting proof so that the Public can know what is going on.
    4) As stated earlier, whatever stated here are meant for the benefits for the Game.
    5) If Members keep on debating with one another just for the sake of winning like what the rest say. This Place is no longer a place for players to voice out their concern. Why not just declare it as your own Ideal world and Isolate yourself in the comfort zone.

    Updated for the Public to view: Current Votes now is 106 Votes on Bai and 35 votes on Seth.

    Not like I want to ruin your party but...The poll is to know who is more beloved, to simplify who people prefer (And there is no other characters involved only seth and bai) Some people stated before why a poll like this is not the best way to say (or prove) that bai is the most beloved character in all the game and that is the character the majority want only because is winning in a poll of "Who do you prefer seth or bai" That doesn´t have any context to prove your point or the point of the "Pro-bai" and reminds me to the awful harpy vs tina (That was a war and today almost nobody main those two characters lol).

    My point is that nobody has absolute reason about this but you always act and say things like you do and that´s not good.

    Don´t get me wrong. I want to use bai very bad, I am main Mistel but I only main him and every other character released until this day it´s boring to me but when I see bai I see a submain or even a main if I feel good using her so no, I don´t want to get her in April or later, and no. I have nothing against "Pro-bai" because I want her (Already spend like 2.5B credits preparing for her and will be a lot more.) but I don´t like how you are handling things right now and I like to think in an objective way, thing that you are not doing right now using that poll to hold your position and statements like it´s the absolute true.

    And yes, I know "Pro-bai" did get some bad words earlier in this thread and that´s not good.

    PD: I think it will be great if we get her atleast 1 month earlier than it says in the roadmap...That would be a really nice surprise.

    Would you care to clarify how do I always act and say things like I do and that´s not good. Maybe you can enlighten me? All stated clearly it is for the benefit for the growth of the community and healthy Opinion.

    And also I want to let you know for me I do not need Bai nor I care for Bai. I am just stepping in as when things turned bad in this thread to revive it as stated in my first post, we need healthy opinions in order for community to growth

    1) Statements from certain people that bai is the most beloved and desired character of ALL the game (Heavy statement if you ask me).

    2) After that shows a poll without any context where only two characters are in (Seth and bai).

    3) "Pro-bai" use this poll as a "prove" that bai is indeed the most desired and beloved character of all closers. Even with what I said earlier.

    Ps: As I said I don´t want bai in April or later but this is not the way to prove that statement using a poll withouth any context and a poll where only two characters are in to say "There you go people, this shows the absolute true that bai is the most beloved and desired character of all the game ever and will bring a lot of money and a much larger playerbase if you release her earlier).

    While I can´t say it´s true or not the last part of that PS I don´t feel is the right way to appeal EME reggarding the release date of bai (It´s like saying to a kid "hey kid if you do your homework you will get vanilla cake and a lot of things but if you don´t you will go to your room without dinner").

    This poll sadly don´t prove that statement of bai being the best thing in closers. I say again that I really want to play her but I don´t like what are you people "Pro-bai" doing in this moment.

    PS2: I know you are not "Pro-bai" you already stated that but I talk to you that are showing "evidence" to support what "Pro-bai" say it´s true so...You understand I guess.

    Edit: I get your point reggarding which character is more popular (Seth or bai). The problem is when what you say and that poll are taken by other people and shifted to fit in their statements. That´s not good at all. One thing is who is more popular seth or bai...Othe thing very different is the statements I said earlier.

  • Hello everyone, I am back

    It does seem that there is such a poll currently running that is being put forth as evidence for people's rational and I am happy to see it!

    I will be frank, I did not join that group and I am entirely relying on the good faith that all reported poll numbers to be accurate. Thank you to those who are keeping track of these numbers.

    However, I believe that some people are missing the context of my points.

    I am being given only one link, instead of having the already aforementioned historical data that is being cited beforehand

    As mentioned, the current poll is a monthly activity set forth by a Facebook group that casually collects data in a way that is more accurately described as a "Monthly Fun Event" than any serious collection of player sentiments in regards to characters and their hierarchy there forth.

    This is also "current efforts" to get this data. I would personally like to see the historical data that is being cited for previous claims of Majority for a broader and bigger sample sizing. This is to validate current data trends and observe how player sentiments change for a more accurate extrapolation.

    This does not follow Statistical standards

    I have mentioned before that there are standards that are followed in cases like these. Standards that are set in terms of ensuring that the data is collected in a fair, unbiased way that is used to accurately gauge numerical data and be able to extrapolate such data to a bigger pool of players.

    Users here might be wondering "What standards? Are you just pulling things out of your arse?"

    Absolutely not. These are well documented things and is cornerstones by both governments worldwide and big corporations. To this point, let me provide some links

    This is a document published by the UK government, penned by "National Statistics" . This is to outline as to what "Quality" statistics are, how to get them, and how to determine if it is accurate. While it is penned during 2007, the core concepts still apply. Please also note that this is used by the UK Government at some point in the past, attesting to its credibility.

    This document is published by "Indian J Opthalmol" and posted to the PMC "US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health". This talks about the ways one can run a statistical test and on what method should these statistics be gathered upon to ensure accuracy and quality. While it is used with a bias towards medical application, the same core thoughts are applicable in any other methods.

    This article is written by "Ross Crooks" for the website "HubSpot". This talks about guidelines one must have to find "...accurate and compelling data." This is more of a general read that users can read and not be thrown against the wall with terms that they might not understand or denseness of information that the above two examples undoubtedly has in spades.

    This article is posted on "The Stevenson Company" by an unknown author. This is like the "HubSpot" article in which users can have guidelines on how to "... tell if statistics are accurate." in a more casual and easy-to-understand format.

    I am not dismissing the numerical data that is being presented by users in this thread about the faceboook poll they are citing. However, I am unable to confidently say that I can take this data and translate it via extrapolation to conclude that a majority does indeed want Bai Winchester to be released earlier because it is Bai Winchester, not because it is a new character. Such a woefully small sample size along with the fact that such a small percentage of "group members" are responding to such a poll.

    I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and illustrate on how things like this can be done.

  • Vincentv95Vincentv95 Member
    edited January 25

    @Meowtingbard said:

    @Vincentv95 said:

    @Meowtingbard said:

    @Vincentv95 said:
    -Shows statics > @Meowtingbard said:

    Let me now speak in a constructive manner.
    2) Why do I share the link - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/ of the Polling Results was because it will be a more accurate Statistic to let the players knows whether Bai or Seth is more Popular as I came across the Post earlier today.
    3) Talking with no supporting documents on real statistic are just empty talks. So we need to actually talk with supporting proof so that the Public can know what is going on.
    4) As stated earlier, whatever stated here are meant for the benefits for the Game.
    5) If Members keep on debating with one another just for the sake of winning like what the rest say. This Place is no longer a place for players to voice out their concern. Why not just declare it as your own Ideal world and Isolate yourself in the comfort zone.

    My point is that nobody has absolute reason about this but you always act and say things like you do and that´s not good.

    Don´t get me wrong. I want to use bai very bad, I am main Mistel but I only main him and every other character released until this day it´s boring to me but when I see bai I see a submain or even a main if I feel good using her so no, I don´t want to get her in April or later, and no. I have nothing against "Pro-bai" because I want her (Already spend like 2.5B credits preparing for her and will be a lot more.) but I don´t like how you are handling things right now and I like to think in an objective way, thing that you are not doing right now using that poll to hold your position and statements like it´s the absolute true.

    And yes, I know "Pro-bai" did get some bad words earlier in this thread and that´s not good.

    PD: I think it will be great if we get her atleast 1 month earlier than it says in the roadmap...That would be a really nice surprise.

    Would you care to clarify how do I always act and say things like I do and that´s not good. Maybe you can enlighten me? All stated clearly it is for the benefit for the growth of the community and healthy Opinion.

    And also I want to let you know for me I do not need Bai nor I care for Bai. I am just stepping in as when things turned bad in this thread to revive it as stated in my first post, we need healthy opinions in order for community to growth

    1) Statements from certain people that bai is the most beloved and desired character of ALL the game (Heavy statement if you ask me).

    2) After that shows a poll without any context where only two characters are in (Seth and bai).

    3) "Pro-bai" use this poll as a "prove" that bai is indeed the most desired and beloved character of all closers. Even with what I said earlier.

    Ps: As I said I don´t want bai in April or later but this is not the way to prove that statement using a poll withouth any context and a poll where only two characters are in to say "There you go people, this shows the absolute true that bai is the most beloved and desired character of all the game ever and will bring a lot of money and a much larger playerbase if you release her earlier).

    While I can´t say it´s true or not the last part of that PS I don´t feel is the right way to appeal EME reggarding the release date of bai (It´s like saying to a kid "hey kid if you do your homework you will get vanilla cake and a lot of things but if you don´t you will go to your room without dinner").

    This poll sadly don´t prove that statement of bai being the best thing in closers. I say again that I really want to play her but I don´t like what are you people "Pro-bai" doing in this moment.

    PS2: I know you are not "Pro-bai" you already stated that but I talk to you that are showing "evidence" to support what "Pro-bai" say it´s true so...You understand I guess.

    Edit: I get your point reggarding which character is more popular (Seth or bai). The problem is when what you say and that poll are taken by other people and shifted to fit in their statements. That´s not good at all. One thing is who is more popular seth or bai...Othe thing very different is the statements I said earlier.

    1) Never did once I did say Bai is the most Beloved and desired of All Game. I think you misread other people post as mine post.

    2) Poll are created via the group itself, if you are in the group you can ask the admin directly. Showing the poll due to it is relevant to this thread.

    3) Pro-bai what they want to use the Poll based on statistic, I see no wrong in it. (Which is the facts players would prefer Bai than Seth according to the Statistic) What we need is not baseless talks, we need talks with supporting documents thus the community can grow. Unless the other parties can provide relevant documents and tackle back them, why not? Lets make two sides debation grow into more healthy ways

    It´s a problem that "Pro-bai" use that poll because that poll only show who is more popular (Bai or seth) so, it doesn´t hold all of their statements about her being the best thing in closers like they say and that´s a healthy comment of my own. It´s not good to take things out of context aka "Who is more popular seth or bai" to use as evidence to say "I am right the poll is real evidence that bai is the most desired character of all the game and EME will have a huge benefit because of releasing her earlier" when there is no real prove to say this is true or not.

    I am not trying to say that bai is not popular or something like that. I want to say and express my concerns about people taking that poll out of context to hold back their statements. And you are helping them to do so. Because of your response I know you are sure that you are right (And it´s impossible to debate with somebody with that mindset) and To be honest I can´t show any "evidence" because in this case I can´t bring a poll to somehow show that "Bai popularity is not so huge as "Pro-bai" statements say" And you know this.

    What I can say is that poll doesn´t hold back a lot of their statements and I don´t need statistics to hold back my words because my focal point in my post is to say that the link with that poll still doesn´t prove a lot of the heavy statements about almost all the "Pro-bai" group are saying and most important I AM NOT SAYING THAT SHE IS NOT POPULAR, I am saying that poll don´t answer those questions because has nothing to do with all the game only bai and seth and we are not here to debate Bai VS Seth.

    PS: I know you never say such things but you provide them with "evidence" to hold their statements and If you don´t see wrong in them taking that poll out of context where only two characters are in to say very different things well...

    1) Statements from certain people that bai is the most beloved and desired character of ALL the game (Heavy statement if you ask me).

    What I said.

    1) Never did once I did say Bai is the most Beloved and desired of All Game. I think you misread other people post as mine post.

    Your answer.

    Edit: Read carefully and see the "Certain people" part to notice that I am not saying that you were the person who said those statements.

  • @Meowtingbard said:
    Well guys, I saw there is a Newly created Poll running in an Facebook Global Group just 22 mins ago Today (Consist of Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea, and North America Server players international) which I just join. The Poll is about Bai and Seth in Demand.
    You guys can see the result there. I believe it will be an interesting and accurate post.
    This show how popular Bai is not just in Korea.
    I believe you can't say General Bias and the Silent Majority points still stands anymore.

    Currently Bai 71 Votes - Seth 28 Votes (Poll is still ongoing and more votes to comes)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/

    I just joined this group and voted the current results are as follows. Bai is at 110 votes and Seth is at 36 votes.

    this is a nice way to show the world who is the most anticipated and wanted and I do like how they worded the post "Fun Polling of the week. Bai or Seth, which you guys love the most? Which characters do you prefer when you try Bai or Seth?
    And for those servers who has not release Bai or Seth. Who do you anticipate the most?"

  • @fullmetalone said:

    @Meowtingbard said:
    Well guys, I saw there is a Newly created Poll running in an Facebook Global Group just 22 mins ago Today (Consist of Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea, and North America Server players international) which I just join. The Poll is about Bai and Seth in Demand.
    You guys can see the result there. I believe it will be an interesting and accurate post.
    This show how popular Bai is not just in Korea.
    I believe you can't say General Bias and the Silent Majority points still stands anymore.

    Currently Bai 71 Votes - Seth 28 Votes (Poll is still ongoing and more votes to comes)

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/2147744868880100/permalink/2205916903062896/

    I just joined this group and voted the current results are as follows. Bai is at 110 votes and Seth is at 36 votes.

    this is a nice way to show the world who is the most anticipated and wanted and I do like how they worded the post "Fun Polling of the week. Bai or Seth, which you guys love the most? Which characters do you prefer when you try Bai or Seth?
    And for those servers who has not release Bai or Seth. Who do you anticipate the most?"

    This is exactly why I posted here but it doesn´t matter what I will say it will be ignored.

  • @Meowtingbard said:

    It´s a problem that "Pro-bai" use that poll because that poll only show who is more popular (Bai or seth) so, it doesn´t hold all of their statements about her being the best thing in closers like they say and that´s a healthy comment of my own. It´s not good to take things out of context aka "Who is more popular seth or bai" to use as evidence to say "I am right the poll is real evidence that bai is the most desired character of all the game and EME will have a huge benefit because of releasing her earlier" when there is no real prove to say this is true or not.

    I am not trying to say that bai is not popular or something like that. I want to say and express my concerns about people taking that poll out of context to hold back their statements. And you are helping them to do so. Because of your response I know you are sure that you are right (And it´s impossible to debate with somebody with that mindset) and To be honest I can´t show any "evidence" because in this case I can´t bring a poll to somehow show that "Bai popularity is not so huge as "Pro-bai" statements say" And you know this.

    What I can say is that poll doesn´t hold back a lot of their statements and I don´t need statistics to hold back my words because my focal point in my post is to say that the link with that poll still doesn´t prove a lot of the heavy statements about almost all the "Pro-bai" group are saying and most important I AM NOT SAYING THAT SHE IS NOT POPULAR, I am saying that poll don´t answer those questions because has nothing to do with all the game only bai and seth and we are not here to debate Bai VS Seth.

    PS: I know you never say such things but you provide them with "evidence" to hold their statements and If you don´t see wrong in them taking that poll out of context where only two characters are in to say very different things well...

    1) Statements from certain people that bai is the most beloved and desired character of ALL the game (Heavy statement if you ask me).

    What I said.

    1) Never did once I did say Bai is the most Beloved and desired of All Game. I think you misread other people post as mine post.

    Your answer.

    Edit: Read carefully and see the "Certain people" part to notice that I am not saying that you were the person who said those statements.

    Read carefully too - My question to you earlier -Would you care to clarify how do I always act and say things like I do and that´s not good. Maybe you can enlighten me? All stated clearly it is for the benefit for the growth of the community and healthy Opinion.

    So whatever you reply to me I treat it as directly to me as you are replying to my questions

    Anyway it is fine. No need to keep going and argue as I not going to post anymore here as I felt that it started to be senseless.

    You can reply but I will not reply back.

    Cheers

    1) You did ignore all the poll thing after my statements.

    2) You DO act like that poll is real evidence to try hold back the Heavy statements of the "Pro-bai" group and you are willing to keep doing it after all I said about the "Taking things out of context argument".

    3) That´s why I say you act like you have the absolute true in your hands only because of a poll with no context and you do it like that and that´s not good.

    PS:I hope you finally understand what I wanted to say with the statement "Would you care to clarify how do I always act and say things like I do and that´s not good. Maybe you can enlighten me?" But now I realize you are the kind of persona that think is right from the start so...You are right, this is getting senseless because no matter what I say you won´t listen, all you can see is "Here is poll, bai is winning, obviously everything pro-bai say is true" and You know that poll doesn´t prove all of those heavy statement even If the pro-bai group keep saying such things.

  • How did this go from wanting Bai sooner to Bai vs. Seth? I'm so confused at this point. Anyway, Levia > everyone else.

  • Question: Did we really end up segregating people into groups, as if there's a set in stone difference?
    Pro-Bai and Anti-Bai REALLY sounds negative and like a fine way to incite people imo

  • Vincentv95Vincentv95 Member
    edited January 25

    If you want to protest and support the "anti-bais" why not say so in this first place?
    Why are you going roundabout to keep on insisting on your ideology even with evidences presented right into your face? Eh?
    Stop pretending to be "pro-bais" just to have a legit reason to hit back on us. Just saying~

    Oh yes! If you do happen to reply me to fight back/correct me, this will shows clearly that what you care about is winning your argument~ </3

    I don´t support anti bai. I want bai earlier but I am not one of you "Pro-bai" making heavy statements that are hold back by polls without context where are only two characters when the game has 10+ to "prove" that bai is the most desired character in ALL the game, looks like it´s very hard to make this clear. Because I want bai I will not go into a poll that is not meant to prove my statements and use it as a flag to show everyone how right I am, that´s not right.

    It´s obvious you will not listen...again I said.

    1) Shows a random poll without context where bai and seth are the only ones involved and bai gets more votes.

    2) Proceeds to say that bai is the best character in all the game and people want it and that they are the majority.

    I am really the only person that wants bai and see a real problem with this way of thinking? I Really don´t know how to let more clear this...I have like 4 post saying the same thing. btw please Don´t use the card of "Oh you are pushing your ideology and other things against us the pro-bai", don´t play victim. That´s not how grow people talk.

    If you doubt about me really wanting bai I can give you a couple of screenshots showing you all the things that I have buy for bai, The dark synchro fibersx 12 (220M) (Even without knowing if will work on her), Two packs to unlock all the visual slots and other goodies (500M), Not to mention the four acc pieces for her SOD 10/10 (900M aprox) and I will buy more things. I have never done this for other character but ok keep saying things. You are the good guy and I am the bad anti bai in disguise of "pro-bai" trying to make something bad to the good pro bai people.

    The last part was sarcasm btw. The guy that posted the poll I don´t think he is pro or anti bai but That´s how a mature person see things...I will not assume he is in one or other side because He is helping pro bai to get proves but looks like I can´t expect that from you. You call me liar directly, I know I can´t debate or even argue with you.

    PS: Nice, very nice the last part. I should let this die because you are so sure you are right and that everyone else that is not with you is wrong or is evil. The world is more complicated than that my friend and I want bai but I don´t like how you "Pro-bai" do this and I will say it because this is a free place to express Even if you don´t like it and deny again an again what I said. .

  • @Butsanot said:
    So what's next? Attempting to devalue & curse and swear at that Facebook group who have no involvement at all in this discussion like how the rest of opposition party of Bai did against those who support Bai in this forum to justify your stance no matter what? </3

    The irony is strong. Why not address the fact that the majority did not vote (hence the silent majority still existing), rather than the fact that I oppose your views? Furthermore, I did not say anything about the members of the group, please don't put words in my mouth.

    @IchiruGo said:

    It never failed to amaze me for those who opposed Bai sure got something out from no where to say.... Statistic is clear and if you think you are so good? - Go get your own Polling then if you think you can do better?
    Keep on opposing and amuse us more please.

    100 Plus Votes now for Bai. I doubt you can even get a 100++ poll by your own group.. What a joke

    I never claimed to be able to do better. I simply said the silent majority is and always will be present. Whether or not I can poll the international audience of closers is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

    @Hasakiri said:
    A group can be alot people but that does not mean all of be looking at the facebook. Or some might have already quit ( People comes and goes same as the game due to lost of interests ( Common sense) and also Timezone ,so stop being delusional and make sensible comments. People already kind enough to give you a source of the votes. Then appreciate it, otherwise why not you go do your own polling as what @IchiruGo said.

    That is true. However, it is also true that membership of this group is voluntary, thus requiring some level of dedication to the game before joining the group. It's already been 24 hours, so the timezone argument is moot (not to mention it is now the weekend in some places of the world) and according to a recent post, the poll is now at 146/1325 = 11% response rate? Let me ask you this. Ignoring all other factors when taking a poll, is 11% indicative of popular opinion? Yes or no. Is 89% large enough to be considered a majority (let alone the overwhelming majority)? Yes or no.

    Same two questions to you, @InukamiKun

    @Meowtingbard said:
    3) Talking with no supporting documents on real statistic are just empty talks. So we need to actually talk with supporting proof so that the Public can know what is going on.
    5) If Members keep on debating with one another just for the sake of winning like what the rest say. This Place is no longer a place for players to voice out their concern. Why not just declare it as your own Ideal world and Isolate yourself in the comfort zone.

    3 - True, but trying to pass off a poll with a low response rate as conclusive is a joke. If you had nine friends going out for lunch, eight of whom didn't care, and the last one wanted to eat at restaurant A (11% vote for restaurant A 89% abstain), your final decision is inconclusive unless more of the 89% voice their opinion.
    5 - I don't know about you, but all I said in my previous post was the fact that the silent majority was still present, and almost all responses to me responded to the fact that I disagreed, rather than the point I was trying to make. Like I've mentioned in my earlier posts, I don't really care about the outcome of this thread. I'm just here to point out the flaws in some of the arguments that people have made. The fact that people respond to my position rather than my point really shows who is debating for the sake of winning.

    Furthermore... like you've said in a later post, I agree that this poll does follow the trend of Bai being more popular than Seth. Nothing more, nothing less.

    @Butsanot said:

    Yeah, I totally agree with you. When those opposed Bai wants statistic results~~ Someone provide them and what happens? Ranting so as to prove their point to show the world that nobody care Bai at all, everyone here hates Bai! Oh my god! I could totally do a Jo Jo references here! How funny and untrue!

    I assume you're referring to me. Show me where I said everyone says everyone hates Bai. Actually, show me where anyone claims that "everyone hates Bai" after that poll was posted.

    And then another opposed bai steps in and claims that their stance is super solid and valid And this opposing Bai claims that EME is doing much better than the rest of server including Closers Taiwan! And someone go tell him or her that it was wrong~ Bai has already been released for Closers Taiwan. And then this anti-bais was blinded by his sense of wanting to WIN his argument and still dare to show his or her link that there was no Bai release for Closers Taiwan at all! This is where I will say... Oh.. No!

    And afterward, it was proven that these Anti-Bais are clearly the ones who didn't even go do their research properly before debating! Thus, someone give back a link that Bai is indeed being release on Closers Taiwan soon~!

    I already admit that I was wrong about the TW server. Like I said earlier in this post, as well as earlier posts I don't care as to what comes out of this thread. I simply pointed out that we have it better than other older servers, and yet, no one has responded to this fact.

    From what I can say, those who are supporting for Bai earlier release makes more sense than those who opposed Bai. Because ya know why? Those who support Bai always have solid evidence to support their claims ! But for Anti-Bai? Nope! I didn't even seen any good solid supporting evidence to back up their claims! All they do is to run their mouth on why they don't want Bai and what will happen without any evidence!

    Okay. Same two questions to you as well. Ignoring all other factors when taking a poll, is 11% indicative of popular opinion? Yes or no. Is 89% large enough to be considered a majority (let alone the overwhelming majority)? Yes or no.


    Despite all this, let's see who responds to the points I make, rather than my position on this entire thing.

  • ElfgahrElfgahr Member
    edited January 26

    @Butsanot said:
    This show how popular Bai is not just in Korea.

    What is popular in Korea has nothing on Western. Each culture has its own preference. Asia is more open minded with "depiction" of underage characters whereas Western tends to associate body feature with age and is more likely to discriminate certain aspects Korea does not.

    Currently Bai 71 Votes - Seth 28 Votes (Poll is still ongoing and more votes to comes)
    this is a nice way to show the world who is the most anticipated and wanted and I do like how they worded the post "Fun Polling of the week. Bai or Seth, which you guys love the most? Which characters do you prefer when you try Bai or Seth?

    The world? You're telling me that 99 votes reviews the preference of "the world" or at least anyone cares about Closers,or Facebook.
    Secondly, why Seth? You do realize people are not against early Bai release because of Seth? There are other updates they do not want your favoritism of Bai to jeopardize them such as
    * A new story season begins! (story for 13 characters rather than replay the old story for 1 character)
    * Multiple max level event dungeons open their doors (that can be enjoyed by other 13 characters instead of a potential limited new character)
    * A new threat appears in Planar Gate: Nitocris (Again, 13 vs 1)
    * Task Force promotions arrive for some characters (if Bai ain't got SA promotion, she can sit on the bench)

    And afterward, it was proven that these Anti-Bais are clearly the ones who didn't even go do their research properly before debating! Thus, someone give back a link that Bai is indeed being release on Closers Taiwan soon~!

    And you didn't do very well with critical thinking. Evidence without thought is just plain confirmatory bias. It just proves YOU not "the world."

    From what I can say, those who are supporting for Bai earlier release makes more sense than those who opposed Bai. Because ya know why? Those who support Bai always have solid evidence to support their claims ! But for Anti-Bai? Nope! I didn't even seen any good solid supporting evidence to back up their claims!

    No. I did provide historical evidence on Pg5 of this thread.
    Similar to Harpy back then who was actually delayed, twice, we were given a huge QoL and content update to compensate her arrivals and make the whole game in general a lot smoother for current characters and soon to come Harpy at that time.
    Harpy was highly anticipated simply due to her bodily features. And people were very vocal about her not getting early release just like Bai currently. They didn't care about the QoL and content update, they just want a hot girl on their screen. The twist is nobody is playing Harpy, or at least the population of Harpy main is as close to the population of unicorn.

    @Elfgahr said:
    We are repeating history, receiving a major content expansion that can be enjoyed by multiple characters at a cost of an early experience of a single and potential limited character. The discussion is the same "she is my waifu and my dlck knows better."

    Or top of pg6 if it helps:
    https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/9630/bai-release-date-discussion/p6

    @Butsanot said:
    All they do is to run their mouth on why they don't want Bai and what will happen without any evidence!

    They'll just play Closers, breath Oxygen, eat, maybe go to work and sleep once in a while like normal? What will happen to you if Bai isn't release as early as you want? Shut down the government?

  • Is it possible for the Devs to change the quoting system to @name and time/date. Quoting the whole paragraph is long lol.

    To be fair the poll B Vs S did show alot as you could take it as an estimate.

    Even in EU discord which has around 300 - 500 ppl I'm pretty sure half the discord was waiting for Bai.

    Please... western and eastern culture. People who play this game is already wanting an anime theme which has eastern elements.

    The roadmap for Q1 is kinder empty. Task force, more story, lunar & 2 more events? and extra +2 level ups.

    Task force is only beneficial with those who actually plays the chars. Extra 2 levels and story could be done in a day. Events are done in a few mins like 1 run = 1 min.

    But chars doesn't bring content they bring extra play time as lvling up chats can be long or fast depending on the player. But it generally up to developers if they want a healthy game.

  • Let's be serious, who is more wanted, some ugly Bai or the monstrous Seth? Yep, the answer is obvious, but people still try to troll and say that Bai is most wanted character. So I want to ask you to stop trolling around, it doesn't help at all.
    Thank you.

  • ElloleiaElloleia Member
    edited January 26

    This thread make me laugh. The "pro-Bai" group says that they don't want vulgar language nor do they like getting bashed, but then proceed to "respond" very nicely to people who oppose their opinions. It's like the "pro-Bai" group has forgotten that the word qualify exists. No one has to completely agree with your group, and no one has to completely oppose your group. In fact, I don't think anyone is actually opposing Bai's release date, as of right now the so called "anti-Bai" group believes that the evidence that people want Bai isn't objective, but before (I hope this is accurate) they only thought that the people that wanted Bai to be released earlier were far too radical. Now that that's been addressed, I hope you took into consideration that EME has read this thread, and that they do not always follow their road map. Take a look at Purification as an example: it was originally planned for October-December but we got Puri in September. This was completely unannounced, so don't think that Bai will be released in April-June. Like @BearShoes said, February is much too early for them to update, so IF they listened to the feedback provided, they might compromise and release Bai around mid-late March. This is just my two cents.

    Edit: fixed typos

  • What even is this thread?

    "Pro-Bai" and "Anti-Bai"? Bai vs Seth? This thread derailed so hard it doesnt even make sense anymore, segregating into groups and starting Tina vs Harpy 2.0 is pointless and just spreads negativity.

    Seth isnt even in the road map and there is no reason to bring her to the discussion.

    IMO mods should just lock this thread already, EME already responded and nothing relevant is being brought to the discussion.

  • @DamianX50 said:
    IMO mods should just lock this thread already, EME already responded and nothing relevant is being brought to the discussion.

    At this point, I'd be all for that. Anything that needed to be said has already said before it turned into salt and ire.

This discussion has been closed.