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Black Market still dead

Server merge was pointless, it just created more problems than fixing them. I decided to wait until a gacha update to complain, just to make sure and unfortunately, it's pretty obvious, Black Market is still dead, it's still impossible to get even one variant of the costumes, unless you whale A LOT + camp the market non-stop.

Someone made this post before: https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/9597/bitnas-gacha-needs-to-seriously-be-looked-at
but guess what, that won't help, we just don't have enough people playing, it's a sad truth that people don't seem to realize, yes, we just had a server merge to increase population, but that was FAR from a solution, EU was always more dead than NA, so bringing an even emptier server to an already empty server was pointless, especially when a lot of people quit because they can't PvP anymore, EU players getting problems left and right, and Bai, one of the most popular characters, announced so late.

This is what a REAL Black Market is supposed to be:

Honestly, just get rid of gacha costumes, leave gacha for Rare Costumes' accessories only, when a new gacha costume releases, just put all 3 variants in the Cash Shop so we can buy them directly, of course, to compensate for that, make them fairly expensive, I'd say around 50 USD (5k EMP) for each, totalizing 150 USD for all 3, this could potentially get more people to pay, rather than just a couple whales gachaing (then hope they get the piece you want, then hope they don't need that piece themselves, then hope they put it in the Black Market instead of salvaging it, then hope you're the only one who needs it, then hope you camp it at the right time, then hope you can afford it), that way, you get what you pay for, having to rely on RNG just doesn't work on our server, which leads to less people inclined to use their money. There is no hope for our Black Market/economy if they don't come up with a GOOD solution fast, a lot of people are quitting and I'm pretty sure we don't get new players at the same rate.

Comments

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited February 14

    I'd like to add my two scents in here considering the Video you posted @Nailliw , The Video you posted is a Korean version of the game which I'd like to remind you still has Fatigue in it's place. Considering that in our servers, getting money is as easy as spamming dungeons again and again and again money in our server is a bit inflated for the people that can play more than 2-3 hrs a week.

    One of the main reasons why the BM in Korea looks like that is because of that reason exactly, getting In-game Money takes longer than ours and thus, is not too inflated price wise...

    Here's an example, going from level 1-85 I'm 100% sure you can get lots and lots of in-game money without even selling anything in BM and that's just 1 character. imagine it with all of the characters... then imagine THAT on Raids+Raid drops for selling in BM...

    TL;DR
    Our server can "farm" In-game money compared to Korean Server hence price hike

    Do I agree with the overinflated prices? No. 100% No. But I have to live with it anyways.

  • VagathVagath Member
    edited February 14

    Yeah i was hopefull that the merge had a possitve effect, but as you mention it made things worse. When they removed the stamina they said they would keep and eye in the effect it had and such, and i personallly believe it was a huge mistake and that it needs to be reverted, but even doing so maybe it is too late to do so, the market was mercilessly obliterated.

    All i can think of is that they add gatcha for credits (with a weekly limit of course) to increase supply of items and serve as a creddit sink, that with the gacha update may had a positive effect.

  • Server Merges was never a good sign for Online Games as far as I remember, I know a lot of games that used the "Server Merge" as a last ditch effort before having to be closed a few months later... basically, In my perspective, I never view Server Merges as a good thing mainly because there's a precedent and (not just one) of games dying out AFTER Server Merging.

    But of course, closers could be one of the few to escape the precedent. We'll see how it goes deep down in the rabbit hole.

  • Costumes really only sell when a new, desirable washing machine comes out, if a new signature costume comes out, or a new character comes out. Zenith + Lace + Santa feat. Luna release during Christmas was basically peak whaling time, and none of the new costumes really compare so far.

    The most popular costume pieces are ones with a splash art where you have to collect all the pieces for the portrait, and promotes the most washing machine spam since you gotta get the whole set. They're also one of the 'safest' to make some money back since it's likely people are actually trying to find and buy specific colors on certain pieces on the BM. Keep in mind with a washing machine, you are rolling from a pool that includes every character in the game, in all variants. This will get exponentially worse with every character release, and there needs to be something to curb this RNG madness

    Proposed solutions:

    • Sell 2/3 variants in the cash shop directly for non-portrait costumes, leaving only one color in the washing machine.
    • OR you're able to exchange costume pieces for other colors (this would just be great for all costumes, especially portrait ones)
    • OR washing machines only give your character's costumes in all variants (not ideal, then F2P players can't really get costumes)
    • OR team-based washing machines (most future-proof since there's only ever 5 members in a team, buuut if you main a character from each team then it's kinda annoying)
    • Accessories only come from washing machine, but you can exchange accessories for any color (should just be the case regardless because of how rare they are)
    • Listing on Black Market extended to 1/3/7 day increments Seriously, this is why I can't be bothered to put up my backlog of costumes on the BM, because I'd have to constantly relist it; even though I'm pretty sure there's probably some guy in another time-zone who wants that piece but it's never up when they're checking.

    Now plenty of these things already happened in the game (exchange, EMP shop variants, team-based machines); but they need to become a staple part of washing machine releases to promote more steady spending on releases; rather than just saving up for special sales and whatnot.

    This is just from a pure 'spending money to get what you want' perspective. In reality, you're supposed to make enough money off of the other pieces you got to buy the rest you want on the BM; but with the game's population being so unhealthy, there's no reasonable way for that to happen. Your pieces won't necessarily sell, and your desired piece won't necessarily be listed either.

  • HadasyHadasy Member
    edited February 14

    @ArunoSesugawa said:
    Server Merges was never a good sign for Online Games as far as I remember, I know a lot of games that used the "Server Merge" as a last ditch effort before having to be closed a few months later... basically, In my perspective, I never view Server Merges as a good thing mainly because there's a precedent and (not just one) of games dying out AFTER Server Merging.

    But of course, closers could be one of the few to escape the precedent. We'll see how it goes deep down in the rabbit hole.

    This generally happens when the merges are done by large games that are on the decline, or Chinese cashgrabs that just want to reboot the competition between whales. The first is a mark of age, the second is just yakuza game devs being yakuza.

    I wouldn't consider Closers either of those cases. This is a niche game that had a severe lack of publicity, it would not have needed multiple servers from the very start. It only served to split the playerbase between Europe and the surrounding area, and everyone else. This is a very lopsided balance, so the EU server was pretty much the underdog, with all the consequences that follow.

    Despite what many would claim though, the EU server was still in a pretty healthy state as far as player count went, so this merge was more of a preventative measure (and fixing that unnecessary divide) than a last ditch effort. The number of bugs that happened because of it probably did more harm than good in the short term though, but those should hopefully be ironed out given enough time.

    And before people draw the Steamchart card again: Steam has a very poor track record of granting access into Closers, compared to the EME Launcher. A lot of those losses are just players opting out of the Steam middleman too.

  • LihzakiviLihzakivi Member
    edited February 15

    That's post revolver-style gacha though...Availability of desired pieces and price of all rare accs, etc basically tanked after that came out :neutral: Hopefully we get the new gacha(and pbm) soon too though.

    Ionno why everyone is being so assblasted about update speed either, it's like none of you experienced early NA/EU update schedule that was akin to a barren desert; or saw the roadmap before they updated it(Bai(and also 85 cap wtf) was slated for 6 months and not 2).

    @Hadasy don't forget the closers/kritika/tera(through steam only) afk event too, that inflated the numbers alot, so the decline isn't actually as steep as shown either :smile:

  • @Butsanot said:
    To sum things up, it is a fact that players are inevitable quitting due to the following reason:
    1. [...]

    I can actually agree to this. Rankings weren't a big issue (weekly resetting rankings are a non-problem and TCP - I get why people may have a problem with this) and BM is much better for EU players now (NA players won't see an increase because EU players didn't have that much to sell), but the other things that have been said are on point. There has been a massive amount of issues after the merge, that has angered the EU population. Losing names people had since Open Beta ( I lost a few names to characters that haven't even hit max level), Visual Frames (fixed with last maintenance), deleted characters (EME will restore them now, after two weeks) and lost Purification Progress (which we won't get back and the "awesome compensation" was given to every player, even those who are unaffected).

    @Butsanot said:
    2. [...]

    While I agree that many player want content faster, I don't think that's the best thing to do. If we get everything as fast as possible, people wouldn't even bother to do current content when they know that content with better Gear/Accessory/Other Rewards will come a few weeks after the current content has been released.

    People felt burned out in the past, when new content came out too fast.

    @Butsanot said:
    3. [...]

    Agreed.

  • @MomoDaaku said:

    While I agree that many player want content faster, I don't think that's the best thing to do. If we get everything as fast as possible, people wouldn't even bother to do current content when they know that content with better Gear/Accessory/Other Rewards will come a few weeks after the current content has been released.

    People felt burned out in the past, when new content came out too fast.

    I disagree with this completely. The problem with being far behind is you always know that there is better gear and there's no point investing too much into current gear unless you're a whale. What's the point in trying for a +14/15 purification core when we now know that Beelzebub core/mods will replace them? This brings a cycle of waiting for patches and knowing everything will be replaced because as soon as you get a new core, if we're a year behind, they'll release a newer one on KR and a cycle repeats where investing in the "new" core on NA past 13 is already a bad choice unless you're a whale and can afford to invest heavily on every patch.

    I haven't heard of anyone saying they felt burnt out so far from new content coming out too fast.
    I've only heard people getting burnt out doing the same thing over and over to farm for mats/credits everyday and not being able to use them because they have to wait for hoffman mods/beelzebub mods/cores etc to be more efficient with the hard earned credits they have.

    Not everyone can drop a few hundred dollars per patch, and have to farm and save up mats and choose which equipment will last a long time to invest their hard earned credits and eb2 into them.

  • HaseyHasey Member
    edited February 16

    @DamianX50 said:

    @Hasey said:

    I disagree with this completely. The problem with being far behind is you always know that there is better gear and there's no point investing too much into current gear unless you're a whale. What's the point in trying for a +14/15 purification core when we now know that Beelzebub core/mods will replace them? This brings a cycle of waiting for patches and knowing everything will be replaced because as soon as you get a new core, if we're a year behind, they'll release a newer one on KR and a cycle repeats where investing in the "new" core on NA past 13 is already a bad choice unless you're a whale and can afford to invest heavily on every patch.

    You literally described what pretty much every mmorpg is about, you grind the new gear from the new content until new content comes that invalidates your new gear with its own gear.

    By that logic whats the point of even playing this game? why bother waiting for beelzebub raid and farm its gear if at some point a new raid will come and make it pointles?

    It's a lot different when you have no news of what might be coming first. In the case of NA we have news from KR what's coming next. I have no complaints about gear progression and how gear is replaced. My complaint is the fact that since we're still fairly far behind we'll always know the lifespan of our gear. It's a lot different when you don't know when it will be replaced.

    My problem is when new gear comes out on NA, we soon hear of replacements in KR. I'd rather us be closer so we don't have to hear about replacements then wait a year just to repeat the getting "new" equips just to know they have a timer on their viability a week or two once KR comes out with a better one. It feels much better when you're on the same patch or close, because you won't hear of new gear coming out until it has been released or hinted close to release on your server (NA).

    tl;dr - It's more enjoyable to enhance/invest in your gear without knowing the lifespan of the gear itself. Knowing that new gear will be outdated soon after it's released on your server is not fun in any way.

    As a side note; I'm fine with the pacing as long as they have plans to catch up to Korea. I'd rather they not slow down the pacing more just because those who prefer being caught up don't speak up.

  • @Hasey said:

    @DamianX50 said:

    @Hasey said:

    I disagree with this completely. The problem with being far behind is you always know that there is better gear and there's no point investing too much into current gear unless you're a whale. What's the point in trying for a +14/15 purification core when we now know that Beelzebub core/mods will replace them? This brings a cycle of waiting for patches and knowing everything will be replaced because as soon as you get a new core, if we're a year behind, they'll release a newer one on KR and a cycle repeats where investing in the "new" core on NA past 13 is already a bad choice unless you're a whale and can afford to invest heavily on every patch.

    You literally described what pretty much every mmorpg is about, you grind the new gear from the new content until new content comes that invalidates your new gear with its own gear.

    By that logic whats the point of even playing this game? why bother waiting for beelzebub raid and farm its gear if at some point a new raid will come and make it pointles?

    It's a lot different when you have no news of what might be coming first. In the case of NA we have news from KR what's coming next. I have no complaints about gear progression and how gear is replaced. My complaint is the fact that since we're still fairly far behind we'll always know the lifespan of our gear. It's a lot different when you don't know when it will be replaced.

    My problem is when new gear comes out on NA, we soon hear of replacements in KR. I'd rather us be closer so we don't have to hear about replacements then wait a year just to repeat the getting "new" equips just to know they have a timer on their viability a week or two once KR comes out with a better one. It feels much better when you're on the same patch or close, because you won't hear of new gear coming out until it has been released or hinted close to release on your server (NA).

    tl;dr - It's more enjoyable to enhance/invest in your gear without knowing the lifespan of the gear itself. Knowing that new gear will be outdated soon after it's released on your server is not fun in any way.

    As a side note; I'm fine with the pacing as long as they have plans to catch up to Korea. I'd rather they not slow down the pacing more just because those who prefer being caught up don't speak up.

    From what i remeber, it looks like EME planning to catch to KR in Q1 or Q2 of 2019. But now it looks like they planning to catch to KR in early 2020 lol.
    Don't know why though.

  • ArunoSesugawaArunoSesugawa Member
    edited February 16

    @Nathaniel697 said:

    @Hasey said:

    @DamianX50 said:

    @Hasey said:

    I disagree with this completely. The problem with being far behind is you always know that there is better gear and there's no point investing too much into current gear unless you're a whale. What's the point in trying for a +14/15 purification core when we now know that Beelzebub core/mods will replace them? This brings a cycle of waiting for patches and knowing everything will be replaced because as soon as you get a new core, if we're a year behind, they'll release a newer one on KR and a cycle repeats where investing in the "new" core on NA past 13 is already a bad choice unless you're a whale and can afford to invest heavily on every patch.

    You literally described what pretty much every mmorpg is about, you grind the new gear from the new content until new content comes that invalidates your new gear with its own gear.

    By that logic whats the point of even playing this game? why bother waiting for beelzebub raid and farm its gear if at some point a new raid will come and make it pointles?

    It's a lot different when you have no news of what might be coming first. In the case of NA we have news from KR what's coming next. I have no complaints about gear progression and how gear is replaced. My complaint is the fact that since we're still fairly far behind we'll always know the lifespan of our gear. It's a lot different when you don't know when it will be replaced.

    My problem is when new gear comes out on NA, we soon hear of replacements in KR. I'd rather us be closer so we don't have to hear about replacements then wait a year just to repeat the getting "new" equips just to know they have a timer on their viability a week or two once KR comes out with a better one. It feels much better when you're on the same patch or close, because you won't hear of new gear coming out until it has been released or hinted close to release on your server (NA).

    tl;dr - It's more enjoyable to enhance/invest in your gear without knowing the lifespan of the gear itself. Knowing that new gear will be outdated soon after it's released on your server is not fun in any way.

    As a side note; I'm fine with the pacing as long as they have plans to catch up to Korea. I'd rather they not slow down the pacing more just because those who prefer being caught up don't speak up.

    From what i remeber, it looks like EME planning to catch to KR in Q1 or Q2 of 2019. But now it looks like they planning to catch to KR in early 2020 lol.
    Don't know why though.

    The reason (or at least one of the reasons I know) for them slowing down a bit is because the last time they were really rushing trying to catch up with KR servers, the players (in this case us and a few former players) got too cramped with the game's schedule to the point that there was literally no rest in between,

    in example: SA for a character gets introduced, leveling event for that character is introduced, shortly thereafter a new Character gets introduced, leveling event for that character included, so that's 2 different character to level, and then afterwards another SA introduced and now you have 3 characters to level... Things just got too hectic for most players considering most players focus on only 1-2 some 3-4 but never all characters.... yeah.

    Edit:
    and this is just Character leveling stuff, no events included (which there was also lots of)

  • I'll add my two cents here, regarding BM and how it has changed since the merge.

    • Consumables have raised in price considerably
      Seals from 750k to 950k/1m in average.

    • Materials have raised in price considerably
      Sticky Residue from 150k to 300k/350k in average.

    • Signature Accesories have raised in price astronomically
      From an average of 250m/300m to 400m to max price, and I mean DC and Cybernetics which exist in high numbers.

    • Costumes have raised in price, sometimes absurdly so
      Looking at Tina's Chest category in BM should illustrate this point well enough.


    I assume the general gist of it was 'more offer, better economy'
    I am unsure what state the economy of the EU server was in before the merge, as I didn't play there, what is undeniable is that the mass inflation of prices begun with the merge. Again, the merge didn't take place to help the economy, but to euthanize EU, so I guess it adds up.

  • My 2 cents

    Based on what I heard EU BM was dead/dying so people had gold but nothing to spend on. So once the merge happened those from EU that stayed now could spend on things like performance fabric treatments or stickies. More people buyng means higher prices, it is just a natural consequence of a market.

    Now for sticky residue prices, I noticed price hikes when puri came out and when the recent lunar new year event was released. Both of which needed a lot of stickies. Puri in the form of tuning/enhancement/chip preservatives and trans stines. The lunar event in the form of a t5 equivalent module and a +13 core costing 500 and 100 stickies respectively. We could get 2 of the mods so we needed 1100 stickies in a span of 2 weeks. So the prices increased from 150k~ to 250k~ to 350k~ due to an increase on demand.

    On the other hand, chromatic phase essences have seen a steady decline in prices since puri came out as it was easy to get just by doing puri to the point where people stopped selling it altogether. And when the lunar event came the price doubled.

    So my main point being that the BM is behaving like a free market(in an economic sense) and we are experiencing higher demand for items and not much increase in supply. If we want lower prices we need more people to put items on the BM and whether they want to or not is another issue

  • Before the merge we had the same if not less items in the market, yet people didn't attempt to pay the scholarship of their children with a Levia Hairstyle. Overpricing is thing that started after the merge, and isn't related to offer vs demand, albeit it undoubtedly exacerbates the issue. The irony is that overpriced items are -not- selling, like, at all. It feels some people plain don't want to sell when they put a common, run of the mill Top 400m 3 weeks in a row.

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