Is anything going to be done about the credits inflation?

When they removed the stamina they said they would make changes to avoid this issue from happening. So far said changes, if they were ever made in the first place, have not been suffient and right now it is the worse it has ever been, especially after the merge, it made things worse.


  • They fought the bots well, yeah. what we are dealing with is supply-demand issues (especially after the merge since eu people tried to buy more stuff they couldnt buy back then)

    stuff like zenith authority, stray cat tops and spymaster suit will be cheaper when the demand is satisfied and eme cant really do anything to solve this

  • the problem is with the players which is why it is a player market. there are lots of mmos with unbalanced player markets but it isn't something the publisher or developer can do much about. if players want a more balanced market then work harder to balance it. I always sell stuff for 5 to 10 mil lower then other sellers cause I am just not that greedy. a stamina system is just not done for NA mmos, it is a horrible idea that kills the game more then it helps the game. players should be responsible for the health of the player market, all you have to do is farm a lot and not be a overly greedy seller.

    we don't need some dumb system telling players how much they can play as it will just drive players away. instead of coming up with ways to make a small section of the player market balanced why not just take the easy way out and blame the publisher. players should be a bit more grateful to EME, there are far worst publishers out there that would be happy to bleed your wallet dry and still not even attempt to listen to the community.

  • RieidRieid Member

    There is not really much that can be done to be honest. The developer can try to regulate somehow, but that can completly destroy the in game economy. Only posible solution would be to nerf a bit the amount of credits you can earn in game, but this would create a lot of rage and make many people quit. And considering the low population of this game, making alf or more your playerbase quit is not smart thing to do.

    @Negumiko While I can see your good will and there is some degree of true in what you are saying about trying to sell stuff at a reasonable price. Problem is that in a system that is based on supply and demand, prices are mostly regulated by how much supply of an item is and how much is people willing to pay for those items. Problem in this case would be that if there are people that have billions in their accounts: on one side you will see that many of those people don't mind to pay double the price for the item they want. On the other hand you will see people that act as resellers, and those people will buy all the items you are selling cheap just to put them again on the market at double the price, thus making your goodwill effort most of the time pointless.
    That is something that happen to me all the time: I put items at reasonable price (not even cheap) and someone just buy all to sell for double the price. I really don't care since I am selling stuff cheap to get credits fast, but clearly me selling items at reasonable price have no inpact in the market, at the end of the day I am just helping the greedy merchants who are already rich in game to get more rich.

  • HaseyHasey Member
    edited March 2019

    The inflation is due to the fact that credits are not regulated as much as Korea since they have fatigue and we do not.

    Without fatigue each player can individually generate 50m/day minimum in terms of raw credits if they have every character at Tiamat and do every set along with the important raids on their main characters. On Korea they have probably 3 sets of Tia or 3.5 max per day if they do their other dailies as well which generates approximately 12.5m max/day for them. Our server basically produces 4x the RAW credits daily without the gold sinks introduced on Korea to remove some of it from the economy such as the free gacha preview rolls and higher enhancement costs.

    Hopefully when these gold sinks hit NA then credits will be taken out of the economy at a rate which combats inflation.

    tl;dr - players print more money here than korea, and the game is balanced around korea's version more than ours so the regulation mechanics aren't doing much in NA compared to KR. However, there are regulation mechanics coming in the future to help combat this that KR currently has that might help.

    edit : the 12.5m estimate is assuming they get 3 malek boxes like players on NA can with with plat it's likely they don't get this, and generate a lot less raw currency per player on KR.

  • There are some keys differences from World and Kr that contribute to the inflation, of course those are not the only reason as some people have mentioned, but here they are:

    • Stamina: The dungeons give the same amount of credits in both versions, but the amount of dungeons you can do ir korea is capped, therefore there is less credits running around. Also, you can't do everything that gives credits, alot of time one has to choose what to work for that day.

    • Elite/Platinum extra rewards: In the korean version the only way to get the extra reward at the end of a dungeon is playing from a net cafe, whereas in World you one extra reward from the elite membership and one extra reward from the platinum membership. Some notable troubling dungeons are Tiamat which in World gives ·3 malek boxes(not all the time, but you get the idea) and replica 5+ which also gives 3 malek boxes, whereas in korea you would normally only get one, unless you play from a net cafe.

    I am mostly curious if Enmmase is aware/cares of this issue. I have heard statements such as "closers is doing just fine" ,which bafles me. I find hard to believe that anyone who plays regulary can agree with such claim. Sure, the whole finantial model of fishing for whales is lucrative, but if the player base is dwindling, which it is, it is not indicative of "doing just fine".

  • @Vagath said:

    • Elite/Platinum extra rewards: In the korean version the only way to get the extra reward at the end of a dungeon is playing from a net cafe, whereas in World you one extra reward from the elite membership and one extra reward from the platinum membership. Some notable troubling dungeons are Tiamat which in World gives ·3 malek boxes(not all the time, but you get the idea) and replica 5+ which also gives 3 malek boxes, whereas in korea you would normally only get one, unless you play from a net cafe.

    I still just don't like that fact that in plenty of endgame dungeons or what was, you want elite for the extra run. You get the extra run which gives you another set of extra rewards. I think the speed in which we get content takes into account the fact that you have elite for the extra run for certain dungeons too.

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    Topic brings up a big issue and hopefully things can be done about it. I personally would want to see EMP shop with an option to spend credits on for certain items/outfits. Or a tab that lets us craft actually useful items like equalizers with credits. This helps with money sink and more.

  • Could give us a watered down credit gacha. I know some newer players have been complaining about the lack of some costumes and how costumes are expensive in general. Hitting two birds with one stone.

  • BunnyBunny Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    Something to circulate more costumes and items in the black market would bring prices down, but wouldn't change the amount of credits players hold/gain.

  • im always selling stuff 20% or 10% less than usual, im doing my part

  • @PP597W94LA said:
    and easy to solve this matter you simply play in the serve korean that will not have this problem of very high price

    As matter of fact i do, that is why it concerns me that things are so crazy here.

  • VagathVagath Member
    edited March 2019

    Leaving things as they are is just unacceptable. Here is a comparison:

    One character in korea has 170 stamina and without any bonuses( e.g. housing and "elite") 380 account stamina. In both version of the game doing pg70(stage 5) bosses gives around 200k credits, and it cost 10 stamina to enter. Without the extra entry, you can only do each boss 9 times, there is four of them. If you deplete all your stamina doing this( that would require 3 characters(170+170+40)), you would get around 7.6m(380/10 * 200k) a day or 53.2m a week. Doing the same thing in World, taking into account stamina doesn't exist, the only limitation is the amount of characters you have, currently the max is 13. Taking all of this into account you could do 468 times the dungeon(9 * 4 * 13) and get 93,6m(468*200k) a day or 655.2m a week. This is a 1131.6% increase in the amount of credits you can gain. This is just a small/low effort explample, you could add more lucrative things and get even more absurd results:

    TL; DR: The amount of credits players can generate by mere farming is out of control, the removal of the stamina has had a negative effect on the game's economy.

    If the above doesn't convince you there is a problem, well tough cookies for me i guess. Regardless, if they end up going back to stamina, that alone probably won't be enough and we would also need something to sink credits.

  • RieidRieid Member
    edited March 2019

    I see more reasonable and convenient to nerf the amount of credits that people can get, and to introduce some sort of creditsink than puting back something like fatigue system.

    Stamina/fatigue system sure would help to reduce inflation, but you would also enrage a lot of people from the few that still play. Remember that it was the players themselves the ones that asked to remove said system. I am pretty sure that for naddic it is way more easy to just let the game as a korean clone, that way is less work for them. Problem is that what many people seem to not understand is that: Western players=/=Korean players.
    In korea players are used to be limited by something like stamina/fatigue while in the west, most people would just quit if they are limited by something like that.

    Big problem with making some sort of nerfing to the credit farming aside from the backlash from many people is that it requires programing effort I guess. But some things they could do:
    -Reduce the random amount of malek crystals those boxes give. Rember that some times you can get way more than one.
    -Reduce the number of boxes from bosses.
    -Reduce credits / number of statues.
    -Increase fee for end game gear crafting while reducing or keeping current price on the older content one. This one is very important and it can completly kill the game if is done wrong.
    -introduce something that both ftp and whales want, but make it expensive and unique.

    Also as a side note: Regardless of they doing something or not. I keep one of my previous statement: Whatever they do to fix the problem, they have to be really careful when messing with the in game economy. Remember that even in a ingame economy there are a lot of factors to take into account.

    The game I played before this one: PWI, got its economy completly ruined thanks to the laziness and greed from the developer + the incompetence and also greed from their western publisher.

    That game was almost since the beginning pay to win and very grindy, however, its economy was stable somehow.
    At some point the developer started to nerf stuff like crazy in order to combat the bot problem with their original chinese version and to drain more money from their whales.
    -They introduced an in-game legal bot system to fight the ilegal bots from China. That along with already existent p2w lootboxes that gives coins as some of its rewards to cashers (same as credits on our game) generated lots of inflation.
    -Then they did more nerfing to counter the new legal bot.
    They did daily quest for the western version aimed at low and mid level players. Daily quest that gives money, this to counter all the nerfing to f2p people.
    -Then more nerfing, even to one time quests.
    -Even more nerfing to harmless content which generated no inflation just to milk the whales more and force the f2p to either cash or quit.

    • And finally as finishing blow: A lootbox gacha like system for whales that aside from end game stuff and cool items gives items that the cashers could sell for millions to npcs, generating massive inflation and completly removing the f2p people from the equation.
    • Reverse powercreep??? this would mean something like: Instead of making some of the old gear easier to get, they made it harder and also put it as cash shop gear. This to force new and or f2p people to cash or quit...
    • Ohh and more nerfing to harmless grinding for the f2p people in order to force them to cash or quit.

    Result: You got a game in which a small amount of super rich visa/master card people that spend thousands per week on lootboxes and brag all day about how OP they are and about how much damage they did with their p2w gear. All this while self recording themselve, and then uplading to youtube how they one shot undergeared people as it was "something cool."

    Now, I know that game is something completly different than closers, that it is from another developer and other publisher. Still, the moral of the story is that some simple changes on the economy can completly break a game if done wrong.
    Edited to add some stuff.

  • The thing with stamina is that the game is build from the ground up with stamina in mind. An example from this is that that pvp used to reward stamina pots which created the following escenario : "Out of stamina? Well you can jump into pvp, that requires no stamina, to earn some potions and keep playing!" that way you can explore another aspect of the game or check out another character, which is also rewarding since it gives you buffs. Since everything relevant is limited by entry, stamina doesn't really restrict gameplay, in fact when there was stamina i had to go out of my way to use it all, and i had a lot of potions anyway. The only scenario where stamina is "relevant" is leveling which is super easy to fix, just give newers players more stamina pots or just sell stamina refills for a chunk of credits.

    Puri ranks and crew ranks were made completely irrelevan after the removal of stamina, it just a metric of who expends more time playing. For crew ranks in particular, just a couple of people can carry the whole roster, instead of being a coperative effort. While some of this is also true with stamina in place, without it, it just blew out of proportion.

    I don't agree with the reasoning western players=/=korean players, therefore we change the game. Globalization is a real thing and people consume products from very diverse places, just look at the food you have at your reach right now and compare it with 20 years ago. Closer in particular, is very grindy and repetitive by nature, which is not a bad thing, some people may like it and others may not. Trying to reach players outside of it's target audience just seems poor marketing strategy,and in fact it didn't work out, they nuked the economy, i see less and less players and fewer and fewers things in the black market. Before anyone says, "Grindy games don't work with a western audience", I invite you to look at Black Desert Online and Oldschool Runescape and all the people that play them.

  • RieidRieid Member

    @Vagath said:

    I don't agree with the reasoning western players=/=korean players, therefore we change the game. Globalization is a real thing and people consume products from very diverse places, just look at the food you have at your reach right now and compare it with 20 years ago. Closer in particular, is very grindy and repetitive by nature, which is not a bad thing, some people may like it and others may not. Trying to reach players outside of it's target audience just seems poor marketing strategy,and in fact it didn't work out, they nuked the economy, i see less and less players and fewer and fewers things in the black market. Before anyone says, "Grindy games don't work with a western audience", I invite you to look at Black Desert Online and Oldschool Runescape and all the people that play them.

    I think you are entering on a bit of a contradiction here. First you are saying that people like grindy games which is true in many cases, games like the ones you mention are good example of it. But you also were saying that the fatigue system is the solution to most if not all problems.
    But, do you realize that fatigue/stamina does not make the game more grindy? It actually try to limit how much you play and grind. Now if by grindy you mean everything taking more time i understand, but puting an artificial limitator on the time you play is not what really makes a game grindy. What makes a game either more or less grindy is how many times you have to run [X] dungeon or kill [X] monster to get [Y] material. And how many of those [Y] materials you need to craft [Z] thing.
    Or in this particular case how many times you run a dungeon in order to get the in game-money you need to get an item.
    If the developer/publisher were trying to reach outside its core audience would actually make everything less grindy, so not even sure what you mean in that sentence.

    Remember that one of the main reasons why there is lot of inflation now is because many people is grinding non stop. And one of the main reason why people asked to remove the whole stamina thing was because they wanted to grind no stop. So what the developer did in this case was precisely to please the grindy people you are mentioning, the hardcore players. And most likely they scare away the casual which are not the target audience I guess.

    Now why do I said before that western players are different than korean ones?
    Simple: One of the reasons why they put fatigue in their version is based on the korean laws against addiction, so that feature is very normal in Korea and maybe some other asian countries.
    In Korea they are used to it, so they either go to other game when they run out of stamina or stop playing for a while like normal people would do there.
    You reply to the other person that you play the Korean version, for players from that version, what I am saying should be obvious, even if said players are not korean. Because if you play the korean version, you shoul know about the whole phone number, national ID thing. Now why I am bringing this up, because that whole thing changes a lot the experience for a korean player in relation to someone who is from other nation.

    We don't have those laws here, so of course you are going to find resistence from a lot of people that is not used to it. In the case of western people, they immediatly start to compare with other games and outrage. Then they make rage post on the forum and press the publisher and developer to remove the limits. Remember that we are also in a culture of outrage here in the west nowadays.
    Also when you mention the whole globalization thing. It is not something about globalization, you can use globalization to make people do things they like about other cultures, but you will find a lot of resistence in trying to make them do things they don't like. What would happen in this case is that most of the people I mention before, the ones that outrage, will simply say: "All this other games do not have this annoying feature that limits how much I play, thus I go to play that instead of this."
    If you look back at how many people post stuff like that in the past on this forum, you will get the idea why they removed stamina. In fact I am pretty sure more than a few rage quit at the time due said feature.

    Also, considering the mindset of many players, they can still bypass the whole stamina thing, they would just use more accounts and keep grinding till they get tired. Remember that in Korea is not o easy to have 20 accounts, since your account is linked to a real ID number. In the west, aside from people that cash, who link credit card or stuff like that. There is not a real way to prevent people from abusing stuff, the only limit is the abuser inteligence and patience, and the publisher banning people who get caught. In the west what is the worse trouble someone could get into if their abuse the system? they lose their account.
    In Korea: They would be violating laws, remember that people that are from other countries have to do some shady stuff to play most korean games. If a korean person was doing that to get multiple accounts, that person would be doing some sort of identity theft and I am pretty sure that is illegal.

    Now let me make clear that I have nothing personal against stamina/fatigue system because I am not really a hardcore player, and even if I was: I would just go play another game or do something else once I run out of stamina, heck, due real life stuff I probably would not even run out of stamina to begin with. But the other people that are hardcore players, which I am pretty sure are most of what is left on the game would rage for sure.

    And even more important, the ones that are capable to generate inflation nowadays will most likely still generate inflation by using multiple accounts and even bots. Not sure if you are aware but it was known fact that some people abused the whole free 500 emp promo while leveling new closers. If there are people capable to scam eme with emp and screw the whole playerbase and people capable to put bots runnng dungeons 27/7, even when we had stamina, and even chating it on the world channel. Do you really believe that people will not be able to bypass stamina? I mean they were already doing it when it was there.

    Again, don't get the wrong idea, I am not against stamina, but I am pretty sure that it would make little to no difference to our version in its current state or even worse, it will end up killing it completly.

  • VagathVagath Member
    edited March 2019

    I didn't mean to say that stamina is the silver bullet to fix everything, my point is that it is embedded in how the game works, and by removing it, it caused problems.

    I can understand that they are a lot of ways of fixing it, the thing is, as i understand it, publishers are very limited of what they can do to the game. For example, Trion, Archage publisher, they commented that they would like to make a brand new server without all the pay to win, but they had their hands tied and it was just up to the developer. With that in mind, my selfish desire is to back to the original product and work it out from there.

    I am aware that those people exist, the one case that comes to mind is a guy that redeemed like 2 years of maid/fairy from codes lol. The way i see it is if the users breaks your software(the game in this case), it your fault as the developer/publishers, it is on them that it happened. There will always be cheaters/exploiters and it is their duty to constantly figh against it. An example of this is Apex, the cheating is out of control, and they were so short sighted they didn't even added a report feature at launch lol. The same things goes for the codes/emp fiasco, they didn't forsee it happening, and even if they did it wasn't enough what they did.

    The korean server website is in orders of magnitude better than the one we have here, you can see that they expended time developing it, and it may help them avoid cheating along with the korean id. For example, there is an event to recruit friends to the game and the last reward is a +14 fuel. They can choose not to replicate that here, because their fear cheaters or they could try to work it out with the comunity of the game to implement it avoiding cheating as much as possible, as i said before, it is up to them in the end.

  • Honestly the only items that passed the "acceptable" level for me are the zenith accessories.

    Still, having the ability to buy useful things outside the BM would help (maybe with daily/weekly limit?), since apart from crafting stuff, we have no real use for them.

  • @PP597W94LA said:
    now that I've stopped to think at bai and in April that means the BM can improve a lot or just get worse than it is.

    Taking anything you say seriously is absolutely pointless.

  • VagathVagath Member
    edited March 2019

    Sure, i think we can all agree that zenith accessories prices are ludicrous. However, that is not the only issue. Inflation works directly against of how the black market was made. If the upper price for a given material, which we can not modify, is too low for the players, even if there is a huge supply, nobody will post it on the black market. An example of this are Synchronization Genes, at the moment of making this post, there is none in the black market, I have an stack of 9999 of these things, but it is not worth for me to even bother selling it ,since i will just get around 50m, which is nothing really in our market.

  • Why would i not voice my concern? And yes i have played Closers even before the NA version was a thing. I really felt in love with game back when i played it for the first time like 3 years ago, and i firmly believe the korean version is the best. It is on the best interest of EVERYONE that the game gets better, if you read my previous example, which apparently you didn't, it is very clear that the acquisition rate of credits has dramatically increased, and it had a negative effect.

    I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the game is doing fine. The new player experience is garbage here, and i could go on tangent of how much i hate their loot boxes, but that is not the purpose of this thread.

  • We are not talking about if farming credits is feasible or not, I pointed out the inflation that occurred.Just look at the title "Is anything going to be done about the credits inflation?". In case you don't know what it means here is a wikipedia article

  • VagathVagath Member
    edited March 2019

    Do you mind elaborating how come there is nothing wrong with the game? It is a fact that credits have devaluated over time. If you always put the same time into the game and over time you get less rewards,most often than not is going to feel awful. Making things less accessible without a good reason would just disencourage the people from playing. As of right now they are less things in the black market and they are more expensive, i can't label that as net possitive outcome.

  • While it is my fault to deviate from the original question that i presented, "Is anything going to be done about credit inflation?" , the discussion is not about which factor is more predominant in the inflation. You presented that if the playerbase decreases, prices will increase, I can agree with that. However, I presented another reason, the removal of the stamina. They are not mutually exclusive and i am sure those are not the only ones, we could find more.

    Things can be improved, and it is beneficial to everyone. I don't see the harm in pointing an issue about the game in hopes for a fix, thus making the game better.

    edited March 2019

    This is kinda tricky subject. Personally I don't think it's a problem since black market is super limited as it is (little need to buy/sell) and find myself rarely in need to use it. But i could easily see this being a problem for most. When basic currency is loosing value rapidly and with market limitations (personal and bm) being still in place it will be a problem for trading enthusiasts and expecially for new players trying to reach for enchanting materials, costumes etc. since they will have to actually grind or purchase stuff from cash shop and resell on bm (guess this is good thing for eme after all).

    Think it's already pointed out few times that this is deffenetely a process that has been sped up by loss of fatigue system, and will just continue endlessly untill something is done to it. Otherwise it will just make trading for currency irrelevant sooner and later. Trading for items would be next substitute but hey, since again even personal trading is limited this may not be an option.

    As I see it, world and korean servers have different limitations on gameplay (fatigue vs entry limits) but still seem to have more or less of a same rules when it comes to trading, black market and well.. everything else like pure credits looted (items increasing credit drops) and drops of credit items that can be redeemed into credits.

    What i would suggest, (surprising nobody seen this coming after resetting fatigue) first and foremost considering removal of ALL credit generating items. They are pretty nice and useful when you got limited amount entries/fatigue. But with out it, there is just so many places you can run endlessly to get em. They are deffenetely generating most of credits out there. Scavanger boxes are probably worst for this, since they give chance for even more than usual credit item drops. Second part would be to replace these with something else. This is where naddic has to brainstorm, since i have no idea what would be reasonable and great replacement for credit drops. Materials seem like decent idea, since items like stickies are in great demand for upgrades, however dont think it's that of a good idea since next we will be flooded with materials instead of credits.

    Second thing, deffenetely to consider adding a credit sink. This should be actually priority #uno, since it's going to directly tackle credit influx. This can be anything from as mentioned before credit gatcha for talismans/ress pills/catalysts/accessories whatnot, have costume sets rotate every few weeks for credits or even to go as far as charge credits for every extra runs in dungeons (we are limited with entries anyway, might aswell). Like imagine you got 1 run of hell each day, with usage of 1M you can do second run, 3rd run would go for 5M or something like that. Otherwise same entry limit would remain. Use imagination, anything goes.

    Consider removing limitations on items that can be traded. Expecially bought items and costume boxes and considering certain previosly untradable items to be traded (items gained from daily logins and else accountbound should still remain untradeable). Limits on personal trading and blackmarket aswell (like limit of 500m and 200m). This is indirect way to affect economy and even boost sales on EMEs side. Allowing players to trade unwanted sets, costume pieces for credits, and allowing more trade traffic. This would indirectly make credits more relevant and flow a bit more, but not directly tackle inflation.

    Another thing worth mentioning that it would be great time to start thinking of alternative credit usages. Like for example;
    Crews use credits for quite old and rather obsolete daily refresh system and crew buff items/housing. IMO Crews are retarded in closers, and only serve as general small communities of friends with little area benefits. When it comes to gameplay, they serve little to none in terms of purpose. Unless you aim for top 3 rewards that is. Think about it, only thing you do is grind boring pointless old content to get crew points, to eventually endup in crew ranking in which only top crews get good rewards to begin with. When you even suggest doing daily missions in crew chat people go in hiding, and trust me for a very good reason. At best what motivates people to do crew content is rewards from crew dungeons or weekly fiber/contamination stone missions. What im trying to say is something like rethinking crew mission model with something more relevant and making it rely on credits would be potantially great idea.
    Something small like increasing top 10 or even top 50 crew rewards would increase credit donations to crews to keep up with dailies more, and even increase activity. Even options like crew mission completion for credits sounds good at this point (altho personally i would abolish and recreate crew concept as whole with smth more fun then dailies). But that's just one avenue.

    @SansScythe said:
    just accept the things as they are.

    which is just looking like an excuse to not farm credits in the game.

    To be really going to compare the serves Korean with ours.
    So you better play Korean because it's never going to be the same.
    because I think it will not make much difference per game loses some players who do not want to farm in the game.

    because as bearshoes said game is doing well the way it is.

    Clearly you seem to be aganist reimplementation of fatigue system, altho it's hard to deny that it's how game was originally made with fatigue in mind. Question is though .. what did it change? Entries on dungeons still exist. Only thing that it limited is credit/exp/material grind. Is game really better without fatigue? Now you can play one character as much as you want till you drop, or till you ran out of entry limits to relevant dungeons.
    Personally i think it actually allows players to exhaust themselves even faster than usual, but what to i know. Im sure that everyone who voted for fatigue revamp had used their fatigue points to the fullest to begin with. sarcasm

    Personally fatigue in other games never bothered me, since i could always switch characters or after main char was done with runs i would take a break and play smth else. Now its just race to finnish entry dungeons and forget about the game.

    As Vagath mentioned restoring fatigue would deffenetely bring change to credit inflation, but at this point it's just gonna alienate more players than it's gonna keep. What's done is done, world closers have abandoned fatigue since people complained, and publisher reacted .. now just accept and cherish the change.

    Just food for tought, how many players you think who adamantly suggested to change fatigue are still playing?

    TL;DR Dear Naddic, instead of expecting great suggestions from community and copy catting other succesful korean moneygrab titles cough D&Fo cough, try to find own vision and push towards it. People might actually love you for it.

  • I wonder how this thread isn't locked yet, seeing so many other "tricky" discussion threads ( health....cough) are all being locked.

    In the end, mmo publishers screwing up economy over time is not news for me, I've played several other games that chose the same route.

    Remove credit items? That would make crafting end-game gear (which cost around 20 million a piece) even more painful and grindy chore. You get about 100k credits per clear on limited dungeons, with almost no items with actual value besides the rare EBII or sticky residue (which prices would also fall harshly over time with cred items removed). In the end it would be the same, just lower digits of credits involved.

    Credit sink? This usually harms more the new players than others, mainly when the sink is based on progression. Be it a boost on higher enhancement levels (like, 2~5m per try or even more, making the 0 cost item actually useful and at the same time sinking for +13, +14 or +15 where you don't use these), I wouldn't care, but stuff like PNA unlocking is a bad move for new chars.

    Alternative usage I agree, already suggested that as well, making a shop with daily/weekly limit with useful items at the price of credits. The contribution shop is handy but the amount of farming for points is ridiculous and you get much more credits in the process.

    Lastly the fatigue, it got removed for a reason, THE SYSTEM DON'T WORK ON THE WEST, doubt they would dare to re-implement it, as it would cause more unnecessary ruckus. I'm still against fatigue and think the game improved a lot, alt character-wise. You are free to level or play on whichever character you want, limited only by mental stamina (mine is low, but I still prefer it this way).

  • @Reyvon said:
    I wonder how this thread isn't locked yet, seeing so many other "tricky" discussion threads ( health....cough) are all being locked.

    Glad it isn't being locked, seems more like an actual discussion then some random dropping some bullshit about Bai or saying the game is straight up dead. Doesn't help that someone went out of there way to directly ask emestaff so now those discussions have reason to be eliminated. .

  • It is only natural that there are arguments in favor and against stamina, and it is hard to reach an agreement. Let's move away from that and instead let's analyze alternatives.

    What are credits used for? Currently ,they are used to buy items from the black and pay services fees(enhancing/pna for example). One obvious suggest would be to increase services fees, however that would hurt new players, since older players already have most things unlocked and they woulnd't need to re unlock/level everything again. That leaves us with the black market, What can be bought from the black market? Here is a list of relevant things:

    • Athena gear/Valhalla Mods( in the future).
    • Chips.
    • Enhancement/Tuning materials.
    • Crafting materials.
    • Costumes/Accessories.
    • Skill cubes.
    • Miscellaneous(Seals/ Network Devices for example).

    While some of the things above can be earned for completing crew dungeon, some aren't. Now, as have been mentioned by numerous people let's make a new tab in the MatterMixer for credits, this could include the following:

    • Washing machine/daily. This could help increase supply for high value items, such as signature costume accesories.
    • Chip random box/weekly. This is not urgent, but a welcome addition.
    • Random enhancing box/daily. I am thinking the one you get from doing Hall of Dragon.
    • Material box/weekly. Something like chromatics/stickys/Syncro/Dimensional Cores for example.
    • Maid/Fairy/Elite 15 days Voucher/monthy. Everytime i suggest Closers to a friend they ask, Do i need to spend money into the game? And the answer is always yes, not because of the maid/fairy, but because of the elite membership, taking two times and sometimes three times longer to get eveyrything is really painful.

    They could also include one time, per account, purchases, such as unlocking the cosmetics slots/inventory space. I couldn't give stimates to the prices, but i would guess something from 5m-30m, depending on the reward. I think it is important to make those reward tradable in the black maket, because it takes a cut from the profit and helps remove money from the game. I would also change the extra rewards from dungeon to one like in the original version. Keep it mind this is only a suggestion, but i would like to hear the imput from the rest of the players.

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