'Bitna's gacha needs to seriously be looked at'... Part 2

Before I begin my thoughts, I'd like to state the following:
1: For anyone who has not yet read it, consider this post to be a follow up on my original post here: https://forums.enmasse.com/closers/discussion/9597/bitnas-gacha-needs-to-seriously-be-looked-at#latest
2: This feedback is entirely on the NEW version of Bitna, the Cross Material Conversion.

With the 7/30 patch update, quite a few things were brought to Closers NA. Some of the things included are Yuri Task Force (about damn time), Dark Zenith (Or Fallen Night as it's called in game), and Bitna's Cross Material Conversion. For anyone who doesn't know how it works, there's a decent enough explanation in this news post: https://closers.enmasse.com/news/posts/bitnas-new-invention . I'll also give a quick summary here:

You have 8 items in a circle. It costs 1 reroll ticket to reroll the 8 items. Reroll tickets can be acquired from logins/events, or bought from the EMP store. 10 for 300emp, 50 for 1400emp, 100 for 2700 emp. In terms of actual monetary cost to reroll, it is AT MOST $0.30 to reroll (with the least cost efficient EMP and ticket purchases) and $0.225 to reroll if you buy $100 of EMP and the x100 bundle. Overall the price to reroll is very reasonable, and from my personal experience you get decent enough items to appear. The fever gauge increases with each roll, making it more and more likely to get the 'hot items', which with the current offerings I feel are all good "main rewards". There is 10/10 for three different signature sets (Fallen Night, Zenith, Dark Command), the 4/4 accessories for the new Fallen Night, and a full 3* box for the CMC exclusive color on the new outfits (The Type C Sunshine outfit).
Now, to roll items out you need Transfer tickets. The number of tickets required depends on the number of items left to roll out. The number of tickets required depends on the number of times you roll that set of 8. The cost starts at 1, then goes to 2, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7, and finally 10 to guarantee the final piece. This makes a total of 40 tickets to roll out any given item. These tickets are rarely from events/login, and primarily from the EMP store. It is 1 for 190emp, 10 for 1790emp, 20 for 3490, and 35 for 5990. The worst price per ticket is $1.90, and the best is $1.43.

Overall, I think the new Bitna has a lot more positives than negatives, but the few negatives it has are HUGE.

Some of the positives (compared to normal gacha) include:

  • Character specific pulls. No rolling a ton just to get other characters stuff.
  • A lot less trash in the pulls. No talismans, no phase fibers, no exploration tickets, no res capsules, no +11 boosters, no enhancement catalysts. This actually removes 6/7 items that I disliked in the original gacha in my post 7+ months ago. Additionally, even though +12 boosters ARE in the CMC gacha, they are the pouched variant that can be sold on the black market, so that's an improvement.
  • Most of the pulls feel worth it overall, as even when I miss the item I want I still don't feel too disappointed with what I pull.

Some of the negatives include:

  • The item pool still feels a bit too diluted. A lot of the seemingly "less common" rolls seem like more trash than the actual common rolls. All the original dual chips are in the list, and I feel like there's only a handful that are even worth pulling (Red/Blue, Red/Yellow, Blue/Green, Purple/Black). All the rest are barely worth anything and a complete waste of money. 1 day elite is also a complete trash roll, since the 30 day voucher is only 1490 emp.
  • There is some lack of visual clarification, as there are multiple items in the pool that use the same image (7 and 30 day garden/maid, +12/+13 booster pouch).
  • Exclusive outfit colors in CMC makes these colors something that F2P crowds will almost never own, especially when it's something with an image set (like the Sunshine sets). I will say that with the sunshine set in CMC being the one with the mixed image it's a little more forgivable, as players can get the image from the normal gacha sets.
  • Finally, my biggest problem with the new gacha is how hard it plays into something called Sunk Cost Fallacy. You can read more about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy , but I'll summarize it below and how it ties into the new gacha:

Essentially what sunk cost fallacy means is that when you invest time/money into something, you're more likely to continue with that thing due to your initial investment. For example, if you bought the $150 pack for Closers after playing for a week then got bored two days later, you may come back to Closers and play it more since you already spent $150 on the game. How this ties into the CMC is with the Transfer tickets. You wouldn't spend one unless you wanted one of the items in the pool. If you spend a ticket and get the item, that's great. But if you don't, you've already invested anywhere from $1.43 to $1.90 into this pool of items and not gotten what you wanted. The next roll's only two tickets instead of one, so it isn't that bad, right? Roll and miss, and that's another $2.86 - $3.80 down the drain, for a total of $4.29 - $5.70. This ramps up quickly, as the total cost sunk into getting the item is as followed based on the number of attempts needed to get the item:
1. $1.43 - $1.90
2. $4.29 - $5.70
3. $8.58 - $11.40
4. $15.73 - $20.90
5. $22.88 - $30.40
6. $32.89 - $43.70
7. $42.90 - $57
8. $57.20 - $76

Now for the top prizes, I can agree that even if you pay up to $76, that's still WAY worth it for something like a 10/10 signature set, or even the 4/4 fallen night accessories right now. However, what happens if someone ends up doing this for a new exclusive color variant? There is no way in hell that paying $76 for the item is worth it compared to the prior method for a third color variant being EMP store for 2k emp ($20 at most, can go down to $16.67 with max EMP bought).

Honestly, there's two easy solutions to this issue that I see:
1: Stop doing exclusive colors in the CMC gacha. This one's pretty self explanatory. Using it to bring back old costumes is a cool idea, but locking new ones behind it seems like a scumbag move to do, especially if said colors get released later with a cheaper acquisition method (normal gacha, EMP store, etc).
2: Decrease the cost for later pulls. There's no reason that the final pull should almost cost as much as the first four. I personally don't have any real ideas right now for curving the prices, because I will agree that if they get curved too low then the cost to just roll out a 10/10 signature could get too low which could deflate their price on the market. (Oh wait, that's a good thing isn't it? Why don't we do this?)

Overall, I do think that the CMC is a step in the right direction but there's still some rough edges that need smoothed out.


  • RukiaRukia Member, Player Moderators, Player Council

    Thank you for your feedback. I will make sure to delivery your feedback to EME.

  • Oh wow ,when you gamble your money more often than not you lose gasp. In other news, the sky is blue.

    Ok sorry, but in all seriousness i think changes to things like that are beyond EME's control.

  • It's not beyond eme's control, it's just harder and takes more time because EME asks for the developers from korea to do that, korea developers implement that and gives eme a special patch, after that eme can finally patch it. with that being said I do think decreasing the cost would be better, max it on 4 tickets for example

  • That is exactly why they have no control over it lol. They have to out source everything. Even if the whole server agreed to change something, it doesnt even matter if the korean overlords don't agree.

  • @Vagath said:
    Oh wow ,when you gamble your money more often than not you lose gasp. In other news, the sky is blue.

    Technically when you gamble on Closers you always lose, as since the fact that RMT (Real Money Trading) is against the ToS, no matter what you pull you won't be able to regain the USD you put in.

    But with that said I know that the Korean overlords need to see it. That's WHY this post exists, so that the Korean overlords can see that it's something people care about. The main point of my post isn't just that it's too expensive, it's moreso that I think the cost is too high if the following will be true about CMC:
    1. Exclusive color variants are in CMC
    2. They will drop as random pieces
    3. Full boxes exist but are super rare to actually pull

    At this point I've rearraged CMC 241 times. I have yet to see even a 2* full type C sunshine set box. I've been able to pull two 4/4 fallen night acc boxes and a 10/10 fallen night box, but no box for sunshine set. The fact that it seems to be rarer than signature set boxes is a bit ridiculous IMO.

    (Yes I know that the fever gauge makes the fallen night boxes show up with higher frequency as I spam reroll, but I should still be able to have a reasonable shot at getting the color variant of a regular costume without having to gamble for each piece in different sets of 8, praying that I don't waste my claim tickets on the garbage of this version of Bitna).

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