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Platinum Elite Status - Enhancement / Tuning / Salvage Bonuses

24

Comments

  • @xHime What 3 options aren't in other regions?

  • HimeHime Member, Player Moderators, Player Council
    Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @xHime What 3 options aren't in other regions?

    Sorry, should've specified. Tuning/Enhancement/Salvage bonus. While they do have what we have for VIP, those three aren't included. That's why people who voted to remove those bonuses (not vip as a whole), are upset over it. They're not saying to remove VIP is its entirety, just those three, and then gave their reasons as to why.

  • Keep all the bonuses

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

  • @xHime Ahh. Though it still makes sense why we'd have it and regions like KR don't, Americans spend a lot less money on their games, so it's just a bigger incentive to buy it. And honestly lets all be real, the increase aren't that massive. It's a good incentive to make people wanna keep their elite status after they hit cap and don't need the fatigue that badly.

    I've always been for games providing good repetitive incentives to making people wanna spend money on the game, I think f2p games are a dog shit business model to begin with. I'd rather spend $60 on my game and then have a bunch of statless high quality outfits/mounts/etc in my game then like 80% of the games population play it for free and the game needing to survive off the minority of people who wanna spend money on it.

    Once the numbers come out, if they're unreasonable I'll be against it like the other half, but I doubt they're dumb and would increase the rates by much, so who cares. If you're going to put in enough enhancements to make a +13~15 weapon with elite status, lets be real you would have kept going for it even if you didn't have elite status.

  • HimeHime Member, Player Moderators, Player Council
    Remove all the bonuses

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    That I know of. China has SS tuning and Enhancements to level +20. However, by that degree, in my opinion, using China for a measuring stick for that doesn't make this conversation any better, especially when other servers are still staying at +15 as the max enhancement and S tunes. In my first post I said that these three new bonuses makes it slightly p2w. China is fullblown.

    But again, I still stand against them is its own as you can see in my post. But to each their own.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @xHime Ahh. Though it still makes sense why we'd have it and regions like KR don't, Americans spend a lot less money on their games, so it's just a bigger incentive to buy it. And honestly lets all be real, the increase aren't that massive. It's a good incentive to make people wanna keep their elite status after they hit cap and don't need the fatigue that badly.

    I've always been for games providing good repetitive incentives to making people wanna spend money on the game, I think f2p games are a dog shit business model to begin with. I'd rather spend $60 on my game and then have a bunch of statless high quality outfits/mounts/etc in my game then like 80% of the games population play it for free and the game needing to survive off the minority of people who wanna spend money on it.

    Once the numbers come out, if they're unreasonable I'll be against it like the other half, but I doubt they're dumb and would increase the rates by much, so who cares. If you're going to put in enough enhancements to make a +13~15 weapon with elite status, lets be real you would have kept going for it even if you didn't have elite status.

    the increases are massive, I dismantled 7 items and got x2 the amount of mats I wouldve gotten on any server. What you all arent considering is that when raids come, you dismantle uneeded gear for extra crafting mats...i.e. youll be making endgame sets in half the time with plat.. You CANNOT say this isnt p2w

  • Keep all the bonuses

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

    Played since OBT, Had 15 days Platinum premium mebership, They also stated this in one of theirs game talks they do

  • @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    Chinese versions of many games that I have play actually want you put more cash into the game. Chinese companies believe it better to reward you better if you decide to throw a truck load of $$$$$$ of money into the game so that why they introduce many special offers and things to the game to get people playing more and more. this is why china offers that shit to get you to spend more on there products.

    that whole +20 patch was literally to get more people to throw money at the game more and see huge numbers in china.

    obviously we don't want that here since the rift of f2p will get extremely huge.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Natorious said:

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

    Played since OBT, Had 15 days Platinum premium mebership, They also stated this in one of theirs game talks they do

    prove it, i know for a FACT they have never done that. I can get you multiple CN veterans that are also saying theyve never done that. Dont pull random numbers to make your argument more relevant. Thanks.

  • Keep Salvage bonus, remove Enhance/Tuning

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    [...] Americans spend a lot less money on their games, so it's just a bigger incentive to buy it.

    That's the main thing I'm really worried about, cause I disagree with your optimism there. The western market historically has been heavily, heavily against any features considered P2W. In the recent years, they've started to come around on cosmetics (or more begrudgingly accepted them as almost all games have adopted it now).

    There are games I've played that frequently top the top 10 (or even up to top 3) grossing F2P lists globally (with varying degrees of P2W features), yet it's incredibly depressing to play the western versions when there are no party lists and I sit alone queuing in whatever endgame arena there is for over an hour because nobody's playing on the western servers due to nobody picking the game up because it's "P2W".

    By and large, you only get one attempt at a game launch. The P2W tag is a big blow to prospective gamers picking it up. Gamers are fickle now because they are spoiled with choice. I really, really want there to be a good population for this game, and these enhance rate bonuses, even if they turn out to be utterly insignificant numbers, will be used as mouthpieces against people picking Closers up.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Natorious said:

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

    Played since OBT, Had 15 days Platinum premium mebership, They also stated this in one of theirs game talks they do

    also to be clear im referencing the CN enhancing and tuning rates thats the only part of elite i disagree with exp isnt an issue.

  • Keep all the bonuses

    @SW0RN said:
    Going to be honest, it's not needed, they're giving us way too much, and this just creates a gap between the paying players and F2Ps. Based off the tests done within Parallel's current crew, the tuning bonus is very noticeable. Estimating about 1/20th(1/10th if you're unlucky) of the standard cost for F2Ps. You're also getting almost 2x the amount of salvage mats. Not to mention the +12/13s the past 3 days.

    If EME removes or keeps the bonuses, I'd like to suggest that they allow us to Buy & Sell the Elite Status on the Black Market. Doing this would allow the F2Ps to invest in the system, and allow the Paying Players to make profit off it as well(They have 6 months of it for free anyways). It's way too one sided as it is now. Personally I'd like to not be forced to buy elite just to get things done faster and more efficiently than others, but this would be the only way I'd support the Elite System, with or without these specific bonuses.

    To me, the bonuses are fine. Pay to win is when there are things that paying players can do that's flat out unavailable to free players. Like if free player can only enhance to +9, elite players can enhance to +15 and platinum elite can enhance to +20. Or making the material for tuning something only obtainable in the cash shop and adding really Overpowered options, like 1 piece of gear can have +100% crit damage in random options. That, is pay to win.

    Getting double the amount of materials, or extra experience and such are conveniences. Those types of systems always exist, even in the least pay to win games.

    I'm all for being able to buy elite status as a consumable item that can be sold to other players though. It helps paying players get a bit more in-game currency, while also giving free players a chance at some of the benefits.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    Ya'll can say this is incentive to keep paying people paying and playing, but this is straight up P2W at this point. You want a dead game? Go for it. People getting raid gear in essentially half the time due to salvaging, that's gonna be p2w as heck bois. Enhancing bonus? Sure, here comes the payed +14's, and all S tunings due to Tuning bonus. This literally cannot exist. You guys already get benefits and enhanced benefits from elite and platinum, you don't need this. You're just grasping at straws to stay at an advantage over everyone that doesn't pay at this point.

    If you're not worried about this change, chances are, you don't care about the game anyways. I wasn't worried till I saw people were getting double salvage and more.

  • @Seoyun In regards to the first comment you sent to me, I hope you know that getting materials faster than others isn't p2w in any way shape and or form, that's paying for expediency. I'm not getting any advantage over a free player other than a week or 2 lead (that's extremely, probably not that long compared to dedicated f2p players) over f2p players. P2W is me getting an advantage over someone that you can realistically only get with money. If some new gear comes out a f2p player can have money saved up to buy materials off the black market, they can also grind for it like me and just take longer, or they can do a mixture of both. I'm not beating the piss out of people in arena in a months time because I have elite status.

    Yall gotta raise ur standard for what you consider p2w.

  • Keep all the bonuses

    The point of paying is to speed up the progress thats how it goes. Why would you pay to be on the same level as someone who doesn't? Use your brain here. I don't understand how people complain about stamina and want it gone so they can get ahead of people who don't have the time yet complain about people who pay to progress faster because they get behind. It kills me how people think lol

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Unwish said:
    The point of paying is to speed up the progress thats how it goes. Why would you pay to be on the same level as someone who doesn't? Use your brain here. I don't understand how people complain about stamina and want it gone so they can get ahead of people who don't have the time yet complain about people who pay to progress faster because they get behind. It kills me how people think lol

    The game is build around stamina people dont understand dat.

  • NatoriousNatorious Member
    edited November 2017
    Keep all the bonuses

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

    Played since OBT, Had 15 days Platinum premium mebership, They also stated this in one of theirs game talks they do

    prove it, i know for a FACT they have never done that. I can get you multiple CN veterans that are also saying theyve never done that. Dont pull random numbers to make your argument more relevant. Thanks.

    There are 2 types of Premiums for the CN server One is VIP which you most likely referring to and WIP which has Enhancing bonuses and tuning bonuses also which were added with that Bullshit +20 patch. And to be clear i never stated that its 20% of enhancing just to clear things up i meant EXP with those numbers

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @Seoyun In regards to the first comment you sent to me, I hope you know that getting materials faster than others isn't p2w in any way shape and or form, that's paying for expediency. I'm not getting any advantage over a free player other than a week or 2 lead (that's extremely, probably not that long compared to dedicated f2p players) over f2p players. P2W is me getting an advantage over someone that you can realistically only get with money. If some new gear comes out a f2p player can have money saved up to buy materials off the black market, they can also grind for it like me and just take longer, or they can do a mixture of both. I'm not beating the piss out of people in arena in a months time because I have elite status.

    Yall gotta raise ur standard for what you consider p2w.

    you cannot buy raid gear, or materials, its also not account tradable, and it isnt 1-2 weeks its almost a month if youre talking about tiamat gear alone. You need to actually have the experience before you comment on content youve never seen lol. Once raid gear comes out, you will indeed be beating the crap out of people without it. to put it in perspective for you, PG 75 gear has a 130% crit rate now normally it would take you almost a month of doing raids (3-4 weeks) to get 4/4 without the wep, with elite it halves that time. Not to mention if you have enchantment rates enhanced youll be rocking +13 and up so yes.. It makes a very large difference.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Natorious said:

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @Seoyun said:

    @Natorious said:

    @xHime said:
    The problem with that is...well, those three options aren't IN other regions.
    In other words, we (NA/EU) are the only ones who have it. Clearly Closers in other regions are doing fine w/o it. I believe that's what Eternal is bringing up.

    China has 20% increase for exp, credits, Enhancements, tunings and many more

    sorry where did you get these numbers...CN has NEVER disclosed their rates.. pls back this up.

    Played since OBT, Had 15 days Platinum premium mebership, They also stated this in one of theirs game talks they do

    prove it, i know for a FACT they have never done that. I can get you multiple CN veterans that are also saying theyve never done that. Dont pull random numbers to make your argument more relevant. Thanks.

    There are 2 types of Premiums for the CN server One is VIP which you most likely referring to and WIP which has Enhancing bonuses and tuning bonuses also which were added with that Bullshit +20 patch. And to be clear i never stated that its 20% of enhancing just to clear things up i meant EXP with those numbers

    Okay then i assumed you meant enhancing and tuning rates + salvageable since thats what hime meant when she said its not available on any other server, because as it stands thats very true.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @Seoyun In regards to the first comment you sent to me, I hope you know that getting materials faster than others isn't p2w in any way shape and or form, that's paying for expediency. I'm not getting any advantage over a free player other than a week or 2 lead (that's extremely, probably not that long compared to dedicated f2p players) over f2p players. P2W is me getting an advantage over someone that you can realistically only get with money. If some new gear comes out a f2p player can have money saved up to buy materials off the black market, they can also grind for it like me and just take longer, or they can do a mixture of both. I'm not beating the piss out of people in arena in a months time because I have elite status.

    Yall gotta raise ur standard for what you consider p2w.

    Not to mention with the latest KR raids, the bosses rotate on a daily schedule. For example Yod on Wedensday is 1 run for F2P people without contracts. With Elite status it goes up to 2 thats already a 100% increase on F2P players, not to mention the purification gear ACTUALLY takes a month to craft WITH elite status because of the rotating bosses. Purification is a really important set because it "awakens" certian skills giving them insane ass numbers. With NAs system F2P players are at even more of a disadvantage. On KR its fine because naddic gives out support contracts (+1 to raids and special missions) in every event, but NA locked that behind a payment system, one thing i bet you also didnt know was that En Masse removed all the free VIP items you get from story missions/ the ones you could grind for (temporary 3 day-10 day) to force people to pay. IF you dont know what youre missing then sure dont get upset over it being p2w, but dont say it isnt or try to defend it when you dont know the far reach consequences of it.

  • @Seoyun said:

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @Seoyun In regards to the first comment you sent to me, I hope you know that getting materials faster than others isn't p2w in any way shape and or form, that's paying for expediency. I'm not getting any advantage over a free player other than a week or 2 lead (that's extremely, probably not that long compared to dedicated f2p players) over f2p players. P2W is me getting an advantage over someone that you can realistically only get with money. If some new gear comes out a f2p player can have money saved up to buy materials off the black market, they can also grind for it like me and just take longer, or they can do a mixture of both. I'm not beating the piss out of people in arena in a months time because I have elite status.

    Yall gotta raise ur standard for what you consider p2w.

    you cannot buy raid gear, or materials, its also not account tradable, and it isnt 1-2 weeks its almost a month if youre talking about tiamat gear alone. You need to actually have the experience before you comment on content youve never seen lol. Once raid gear comes out, you will indeed be beating the crap out of people without it. to put it in perspective for you, PG 75 gear has a 130% crit rate now normally it would take you almost a month of doing raids (3-4 weeks) to get 4/4 without the wep, with elite it halves that time. Not to mention if you have enchantment rates enhanced youll be rocking +13 and up so yes.. It makes a very large difference.

    Lol, I mean even a month still isn't bad hun, if you wanna be a freeloader and spend no money on a game you can deal with getting out classed by the upper percent of people in pvp. Don't be cheap and play a game with no intent of spending money on it. Clearly we have different expectation of players in a games community. If you know some raid content is going up go save some quarters bud. Save up 20 bucks and you got 2k EMP you can spend on elite status so you can keep up with others who have it, and if you can't do that, accept the fact it's going to take longer for you to be like everyone else.

    And again, that's still not p2w, it's paying for expediency. You can argue the time gap it too large, but it's still paying for expediency. For someone who wants to make a jab at me for talking about something I don't know about you sure like to use words you can't use correctly. The only two things even in this conversation I care about is the rate at which elite players get a bonus in enhancing gear, and the rate people get better tunes in tuning. Everything else is is irrelevant to me because it's paying for expedience.

    I would have been fine with it if Elsword allowed you to buy the Adds energy fusion dungeon weapon with real money instead of grinding for it, and that thinks drop chance is so low I've seen people run 1,000 runs and still not get it to drop. Those people aren't buying something they couldn't get for free, and despite it's low drop rate most people got it within 500~800 runs, a few people even less than that. Paying for expedience isn't p2w.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    Paying for expedience isn't p2w.

    You know, you were talking about her not knowing how to use words, yet you use Expedience as if it has no correlation with how p2w works.
    Paying for advantages isn't p2w? Sure. Depends on the advantage. You can argue that other games do P2W worse than this one, but that doesn't mean paying players or f2p players should sit here and accept the GROSS indifference in advantages that paying players get. I'll be a paying player and I don't even want these advantages because it's clear that it's pretty goddamn P2W.

    Double the Salvage? Okay, less content to do I guess. +1 runs? Better enhancement rates? Better tuning rates? When we're talking about "stuff not being p2w" we talk about pay for progression. And these types of systems only exist in games without Stamina. The people who would pay, including me, get enough of an advantage with a +1 run at end game that other players won't be able to get unless they can sell elite on the market place. Everything else you get is a bonus, and it isn't necessary. Post plat, you get 30% credits, 15% bonus EXP, double reward slots at the end of a dungeon, a +1 to EVERYTHING limited run, self skill training and device enhancement. Not to mention the multitude of stamina pots you'd accumulate from logging in daily.

    And you're gonna sit here, and act as if double salvage, double engance and double tuning aren't p2w on top of everything you got? Paying players deserve more, but they don't deserve a 200% advantage.

  • The thing is they can't remove the bonus now people already have 180 days of premium how can they just remove something that already belongs to the player.

  • VaunhauseVaunhause Member
    edited November 2017
    Remove all the bonuses

    @Yoburi said:
    The thing is they can't remove the bonus now people already have 180 days of premium how can they just remove something that already belongs to the player.

    Unfortunately, yeah. What they CAN do is make it so elite is sellable on the black market, at least.

    EDIT: Oops, didn't mean to say double tuning and enhance (for my above post. Not gonna edit it, it'd prob break.)

  • @Vaunhause said:

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    Paying for expedience isn't p2w.

    You know, you were talking about her not knowing how to use words, yet you use Expedience as if it has no correlation with how p2w works.
    Paying for advantages isn't p2w? Sure. Depends on the advantage. You can argue that other games do P2W worse than this one, but that doesn't mean paying players or f2p players should sit here and accept the GROSS indifference in advantages that paying players get. I'll be a paying player and I don't even want these advantages because it's clear that it's pretty goddamn P2W.

    Double the Salvage? Okay, less content to do I guess. +1 runs? Better enhancement rates? Better tuning rates? When we're talking about "stuff not being p2w" we talk about pay for progression. And these types of systems only exist in games without Stamina. The people who would pay, including me, get enough of an advantage with a +1 run at end game that other players won't be able to get unless they can sell elite on the market place. Everything else you get is a bonus, and it isn't necessary. Post plat, you get 30% credits, 15% bonus EXP, double reward slots at the end of a dungeon, a +1 to EVERYTHING limited run, self skill training and device enhancement. Not to mention the multitude of stamina pots you'd accumulate from logging in daily.

    And you're gonna sit here, and act as if double salvage, double engance and double tuning aren't p2w on top of everything you got? Paying players deserve more, but they don't deserve a 200% advantage.

    Lol that's exactly the case, you getting something faster isn't p2w, you aren't getting something others can't get within reason without spending money. You're realistically not gonna be getting a SoD 10/10 without spending money on the game, if the outfit was really over stated, you could consider that p2w even tho it's technically possible to obtain it without spending money. However you being behind others in gear for like a month isn't p2w.

    Double salvage rates, speeds things up. +1 runs, speeds things up. Better enhancement rates/tuning rates, again once I know what the numbers are I'll be able to make a better judgement of whether or not it's reasonable or not they're fair or not, and if they aren't then I'll sit here with the rest of you and be against those things.

    And yes I am going to sit here and say that. Again I said this earlier in the thread, but clearly we have different opinions on what players should do for the game. If you're playing a game for months+ and you don't spend any money on it, you're a piece of sh*t. What kind of poor box living person you gotta be to not be able to save up 80 quarters for the time when the new content hits that you really feel like you need to grind for? I don't care who it is, in my opinion you have an obligation to spend money on a game you play a lot, and if you value getting gear the same time other people do, then I suggest you start saving up change. Not the change you apparently have to save up to pay for your internet bill, god knows how you're even able to accomplish such a thing, but change to put into the game you dump so much time into.

    Also keep in mind I'm not directing that bit to you, you already said you've spent money in the game, just making a point that you people aren't poor living in a box, if you can't put some change aside to pay for the game you're playing for free then deal with the disadvantage, stop coddling cheap Americans who are fine with not funding the game they play religiously.

  • RozaruRozaru Member
    edited November 2017
    Keep all the bonuses

    Keep all the bonuses, i paid good money for my Ace Closer Bundle. I'm whats keeping the game alive by throwing away all my money at this game. Anyways if they remove the perks it would mean no one would buy the membership, the only thing that would be left in the premium is the xp bonus which is rather useless at max lv, which means game content will take longer to arrive cause less funds to work with. I'm supporting my game only cause of perks, they remove perks say bye bye to my funds.

  • Remove all the bonuses

    @Shadowh8ter said:
    @EternalDreamVG I'm sure it does get most of it's money from the SoD/Cybernetic costumes from other regions, why don't you go to those regions right now, and tell them to stop being cunts and just completely remove their VIP status, and then ask them how much money they've lost.

    I don't think anyone over on KR even remotely buys VIP anymore LOL. I stopped a few months ago and from events alone I still have well over 3 months of VIP, and there's new events pretty much every week that give more VIP. And then, in Korea, people often play from PC Bangs too, which automatically apply VIP to your account while you play there. They would lose a completely insignificant amount of revenue if it was removed from the cash shop.

  • Make the item tradeable and/or available in events and it's fine. F2P players would then just need to hoarde their materials for said events should they not occur too rarely, and there honestly shouldn't be a reason to complain.

    While tuning/enhancing boosts are a bit odd of a paying status, I don't think it's stuff you do too often in endgame as a casual player (not minmaxing), I think if even just a day version each month from event (let's say minimum) would already give them pretty much as much of a benefit as a casher, just much less convenient.

    That's just my opinion on the matter, I honestly don't actually care too much. I'm not seeing it as the biggest impact ever, I have a lot more fears to worry about when it comes to NA today, this is one of the least of the damaging problems.

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