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Closed Beta Wrap-Up and Looking Forward

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Comments

  • So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

  • 2EndLifes4u2EndLifes4u Member ✭✭

    if we are talking about whales ,well 1000-2000 it doesnt matter they will get it and pay for it
    but instead of increasing the chance of kager badge or more way to obtain badges for the buff and sigils for the costume no we only make it easier for the whales only

    even a low-normal paying players wont dumb their kreds to get badges getting scroll and rolling for a good stat is a better boost to CR then getting rare badges

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    The EXP changes were something that I didn't expect to see. I was hoping for better insane rewards. I'm pretty indifferent on this change as I mostly run on insane, but it's a good incentive for party play.

    The gold changes will heavily impact the market as the game grows. That's a ton of gold flow coming in with no real sink at end game. I would expect inflation to kick in very soon after OBT.

    Making the costume packages $10 is going to be hit or miss. They become a lot more affordable and makes it more enticing to purchase for the small stat boost. The other aspect is badge farming through these packages. Whales will always whale regardless of price. Whether they drop $5k or $10k on costumes won't matter, it's going to happen. Now they can just do it faster. I suggest making these costume packages tradeable (like TERA) and can be auctioned for gold. There needs to be some balance between free/paying players.

    Changing hammers to sell for gold on the auction is a good step forward. However, they still remain extremely overpriced. The same should be done for the reroll scrolls too, or just remove them from the shop along every enhance mat. Once the auction goes full gold trades (hopefully), something has to be done with these mats.

    Lastly, bikinis for OBT? Costume/appearance tab separation too.

  • @Utsa said:
    I don't understand how things can be p2w when you can't really "win" in anything with only gear in this game? You can't win PvP with only gear and PvE can't be competitive when it only relies on gear. How do you call that competitive when it requires no skill, lol. Can't win when there was never a competition in the first place. Literally a ranking of how much you farm or how much you spend. So, no it doesn't matter if you can just buy avatars left n right. Just be happy the lower price makes it easier on F2P players to get one.

    I like this Logical statement. This also is true of all the recent MMOs. Gear does NOT equal Skill. Gear may make things easier but you can have someone max gear in some MMOs ( Tera , BnS etc..) and it doesn't matter because you are no where as near as good and mechanically sound as those that have worked for their gear.

    I think what they are upset about is those that have spent a lot of time and just have a lot of money to spend. Really, there isn't anything you can do about that you just have to suck it up and thank those players that are willing to spend money on a game you love which keeps it up and running so you can play LOL.

  • When I wasnt playing with friends on insane difficulty, and was just playing solo on hard mode, I found I kept hitting quest walls 2 levels too early. Making those walls come even taller I feel would make it a bit of a slog. While I enjoyed the combat well enough, we found that after having to play the same maps 5-8 times in a row, started to really get taxing mentally. Granted, we came up with a fun little game between us to compete for higher score, mentioning each time we ended a room. But we found the Party lead was consistently getting MVP and it took a bit of the fun away to watch the same person get mvp every time. I understand this is just a bug, most likely in how the hosting works to make sure everyone gets the xp, but I hope it gets fixed for the next beta.

    I would really love if the class change gave you the option to try some of the skills yourself for a bit rather than give you killable dummies after locking in your choice. I felt a bit pressured to make a "guess" as to which class I hoped had a playstyle I enjoyed, and it left me feeling nothing but doubt at what could have been. (Though I never went to the training ground to see if you could test those things there beforehand, now that I think about it. But if thats the case, maybe have a "try these at the training grounds!" Prompt in the class change menu)

    I enjoyed the kred store costumes and accessories, though I would enjoy some more diverse clothing options, if I wanted the rogue to look more cool rather than just attractive, I didnt have the option. And Im not a fan of using EMP (A paid currency) to buy Kred (a slightly different currency with the same value) But to some degree, I understand the need if it was an adopted framework. I also enjoyed that it wasnt an absurd price to get these costumes. Ive played similar games before, Dragons Nest and Elsword, and the latter can be upwards of 50-70$ just to get a full outfit for the character. To hear that the current price (20-30) will be going down even further, makes me very keen to get many outfits, because I have a problem. Also, while the gear does give stats, its at least not as absurd as something like Elsword, where at early levels, if you buy yourself all your cosmetics, you can just steamroll the game up to cap because you're huge. The numbers are enough to make you feel a bit happy with your purchase, and maybe back up a weakness you had.

    I only managed to get to level 25 on one character, and 15 on another, however that wasnt with me just hiding out in my basement with a bottle and no bathroom breaks, thankfully. It was pretty casual and was only two or three sessions of around 4 hours on a weekend. If most of the content is backloaded at endgame (and not just PvP) then this time is a perfect rate, especially if there is no class changing and the "meta" might change, causing you to need a new character quickly. However if most of the game is levelling up, then maybe bring the exp down a bit, but put more quests in between to at least feel like you're still advancing, rather than just asking me nicely to go get more exp and come back later.

    I never really ran out of rest points, but I was finding gold to be a bit too hard to come by to keep my gear upgraded when I had replacements as I levelled. Also if you're strapped for cash, selling items isnt an option, at least early on it isnt, since its all worth only 1 gold. There is a bit of satisfaction to getting rare items, when you see how much theyre worth, even more so if you upgrade them to be extra tough, and you see the number scale dramatically (not so much so that you would upgrade things to make more money, but enough to get a smile).

    While I understand that this game is already well established on Korean servers, and my input, or even most peoples input, may not dramatically change the game, feedback is still feedback. You can always hope too. All in all, I enjoyed it and eagerly await the next time I can play.

  • I can't wait! I Wanna do Boss Attack in insane mode. Let me Play, JUST L E T M E P L A Y KRITKA!!! :dizzy:

  • fantastic finish cannot w8 till open, great job devs

  • Weather u pay or not for costumes is irrelevant, yes, u can get badges and better perks but you can spend time on game and grind for it, u think this game will stay if no money is made, no good games need people to buy the good stuff. I'm sorry some are upset, but these designers put there time and heart into making this game and if they make no money why make a game.. Think about it people.

  • Overall, we found Gold to be too scarce, so we will keep Gold drops at 100% when your Rest Points have hit 0.

    Maybe if EVERYTHING DIDN'T SELL FOR 1G when you try to sell at an NPC this wouldn't be a frikken issue, what is so hard about this seriously?

    I've really never seen this in another MMO where you have the option to sell to NPC's, but it's completely pointless because it's totally worthless and your only option is to salvage instead of sell.

    Tie extra gold income with selling unwanted gear to NPC's so people have an actual meaningful choice between the two and so that people can't 24/7 gold farm and cause super inflation on the market.

  • TFoxenTFoxen Member

    Gold sinks in this game are the real deal. I wouldn't worry about inflation so early on. Overall it was an entertaining experience, levelling to 65 while solo and getting to try out different characters and their skills. You've done a great job, kirika team. Keep at it and get us to OBT status asap :)

  • 4NHLR6L4RG4NHLR6L4RG Member
    edited June 2017

    Costumes are more of a cosmetic than a pay-to-win thing even if you can get badges (and small stats boosts) but I really believe the experience on hard was O.K.

    However, people I played with felt insane difficulty was not rewarding enough. Maybe adding more experience on insane would partly fix the problem instead of debuffing experience on hard? A lot of people see it as this game starts when you hit maximum level and making leveling to 65 will make the game a bit more tedious on early levels. It'll work out great when everyone starts and the same time and we can all party together but truth being told people will make various characters and it might not always be possible for us to find parties around our level.

    More gold is okay and to answer people who say it will inflate prices I will say slightly. Most gold in CBT was used on stones and upgrading (And I'm not talking about the last day where upgrading was free) so I have a feeling people will upgrade more their gear. However, I see one concern is that in the future there might (Being realistic here) be bots at a point and being able to farm gold all day for them could end up problematic for inflation but I can see why it is a problem when it gets so costy to repair every mission you do when you have a lot of legendary upgraded items. I feel like if you just make it so monsters drop 2x more gold (Or something) it would balance out better.

    What I found scarce was the amount of stabilizing hammers, I ran out before the day upgrading became free. I could have spent kreds but I felt like I was doing an okay job in the dungeons so I left that a part. Didn't get to try pvp because when I checked there wasn't that many people in lobbies or (mostly) the rooms had passwords.

    Setting a minimum and maximum price on items seems a bit far-fetched; I suggest an alternative - Rather than having a minimum and maximum when people are about to buy an item you could say; (Example, you're buying a resurrection stone for 200k gold)
    "Are you sure you want to buy resurrection stone for 200k gold?
    Average sold price on resurrection stone:
    Lower sold price on resurrection stone:
    Highest sold price on resurrection stone:"
    This gives the insight people need to know before buying things for more than they actually should while still allowing a free market.

    Also changes at starhagen? I am sure I am not the only one curious about this one; which we would know more about it. Hopefully it doesn't hit too hard when we reach 65 lol.

    We are all looking forward for OBT, hopefully we don't have to wait too long!

  • Hello, I dont like the direction you are taking whit it, Succesful games make theyr money out of cosmetics and not any item wich breaks the balance of the playerbase, players want a balanced and enjoyable enviorement; if the first thing i see when loging in is a guy wich spent 500$ on all the siny stuff and a pletora of enhance hammers while being my next arena contender... is a quit call,

    Im sure you do know more than me on desing, marketing, balance, sales and everything related because afterall you are the profesionals, just giving my 2cents as a old school player wich saw alot of games live and die, and as we all know todays mmo is about having population, most games dont even last a month because are empty at launch.

    As personal note, pve gets boring fast. A focus in competitive pvp make games big and great, Thanks for reading.

  • Cant wait to play! ^^ :D Soooo EXCITED!

  • AXZIELAXZIEL Member

    Can't wait to play the other classes

  • Am I misunderstanding the gold drops change when on 0 RP? how was it in cbt? would gold just stop dropping at 0 RP? so now it will be 1000% gold->500% gold->100% gold like exp?
    if that's the case then this change does nothing and gold will still be hard to get all the way until 65.

  • There's but one thing i missed from the game.. and is the personal trading. Even if it would be only via mail like in vindictus,
    I'd like to have a way to trade with friends or whatever. Forcing me to use AH or break down all the drops,
    is somehow makes all the gears useless..
    Ofcourse if i break legendaries, i get the yellow stuff to make my own legendaries.. but if i cant trade them with friends, or dont want to/cant sell on AH,
    why not just drop the materials instead?
    Or with any other stuff..
    I would be just happy with any kind of Personal Trading
    Is it possible to have? If not, then why not?

  • AisuryuuAisuryuu Member
    edited June 2017

    Too lazy to read all the other people comments so I'll just say my 2 cents.
    Nerfing the hard difficulty EXP gain is a mistake, you should buff the Insane EXP gane instead to make it more worthwhile.
    Nothing was said about trading between players, is this going to remain closed off in the OBT? If yes then I would be majorly dissapointed. A lot of times I've gotten a legendary weapon which I could've given to a friend but without a trading system and the AH being cash currency gives us literally no way to make the most of it.
    Which brings me to the next point. From what I've read from your Wrap-Up post you will keep the Kred currency for most things in the AH, most notably the legendary weapons? That is beyond stupid and honestly makes me wanna reconsider even waiting for OBT and moving to the SEA server or something instead.. I should not be forced to buy Kred just because I am unlucky to get any legendary drops for my class or other classes to sell for kred, which i should use to buy a weapon for my class. Auction House should remain gold only and Cash Shop should be the only place where the cash currency is used. That's how it has been in EVERY SINGLE game I've played and I don't see why you'd think that using Cash currency in the Auction House would even be a good idea.

  • 100% gold drop rate on O RP:
    If you get at least 2 gold drops during whole dungeon run you can call yourself lucky. And that gold will be so little that at the end of the run you will not even be able to buy a HP potion. Actually in 0 RP case you need 4-5 dungeon runs to be able to afford a potion. But that actually does not matter. Why? Because you are not supposed to be playing on 0 RP in the first place.
    The way I saw things during closed beta was something like this.
    300-200 RP - Advance the game quite fast.
    1-200 RP - You can still advance the game, but at a slower(normal) rate.
    0 RP - Time to stop playing. If you really, really want, you can do some quests, but it will cost you gold (potions). Or you can run lower level dungeons to help others.

    Nerfing "hard" difficulty to 6x rates. I say it's a good change. As mentioned before, leveling is way too fast and easy already, and increasing rewards for "Insane" would make it even faster.
    Pay 2 Win costumes and badges. Mmm as someone posted in forum, maybe make costumes from Cash Shop not convertible to badges. Or (again from forums) just make that in pvp battlegrounds everyone has same class based stats. Then it becomes easier to balance pvp and does not matter how op paying players become in pve.

    If we start grouping players into whales and small fish. If for small fish pvp battlegrounds becomes "Join to automatically lose to whales", then why even join pvp in the 1st place? And after getting punched too much small fish migrate to other games, well... whales tend to migrate after them too.

    Questions left would be. Will free players be able to access all things. Aka unlocking all inventory/bank inventory space and extra character slots.

  • having a min/max auction system will ensure that there is no super inflation that plagues a lot of games as they mature. this will ensure that no matter how much people send or sell, the prices will still remain so there will be no deflation due to undercutting or hyper inflation with a small number of people controlling the market.

  • Why not just keep the Insane EXP on 8x? Hard is kinda okay for 6x EXP since most of us would solo dungeons on Hard Mode. Also..I might be prolly the only person to say this (unless there's a few) but...when are we gonna have the option to use KR voices in the game? I feel like the voice is...cringy to me.

  • 5PF73G7N555PF73G7N55 Member
    edited June 2017

    @knoxxer said:
    1. We will ... revamp PVP to allow for longer sessions, and improved balance for specific skills that were too powerful.
    2. We want players to be rewarded for playing at higher difficulties, and having Hard and Insane both give 8x EXP didn’t accomplish our goal.
    3. Overall, we found Gold to be too scarce, so we will keep Gold drops at 100% when your Rest Points have hit 0.
    4. We are also reducing the price of costume bundles across the board from 2000 KRED to 1000 KRED.
    5. One notable change is that Stabilizing Hammers will now be sold by Gold in the Auction House
    6. ...(not OBT) we will be setting a min/max price for items sold on the Auction House, and many bound items will be changed from Kred to Gold
    7. ...balance changes to Starhenge, more store offerings, and a host of bug fixes.

    1-10 Points; max 70 1 = awful, 5 = average, 10 = very good; all values are subjective
    1. Its the most important thing to make our PVP experience worthwhile and fun. This game isnt complete without it +10
    2. Most people wanted to get better drops at Insane (changed prices for drops) it takes more time now, but Insane is my favorite mode so +6
    3. Now thats good news I felt that running through a dungeon with 0 drops was rather disappointing (potential botters should be monitored!) +7
    4. People with small budget like that idea and nonpaying Players could get costumes cheaper. If you want to invest 1k $ or more in this game it should be rewarding for them! So People who scream p2w should rethink what p2w really is. The main reason that something is p2w is that you can buy something that others cant get otherwise ingame, but Kagerfeld badges are farmable there should be more possibilities to farm them though [Events+Dailies] so nonpaying Player have a way to catch up a little faster, if they invest more time (in other games Achievements are very popular for that reason). +4
    5. Now thats a good idea, enhancing gear is essential to progress further so its good to see that nonpaying player is given a chance. +8
    6. It´s good to keep control of the economy but setting min/max prices can be really hard to decide (especially for Items that are high in demand and tend to fluctuate). In some MMOs I saw that the value of a Item was shown as a graph, so you can get a easy understanding of prices during different hours of the day, without being a Auction house expert (some Traders specialise in analysing item values). With no further info i give this a +5
    7. This part is vague so I cant say anything about it in detail so a neutral +5

    45/70 Points, so a good score, but in my opinion some things i mentioned have to be evaluated though.

  • @Drachiel said:
    There's but one thing i missed from the game.. and is the personal trading. Even if it would be only via mail like in vindictus,
    I'd like to have a way to trade with friends or whatever. Forcing me to use AH or break down all the drops,
    is somehow makes all the gears useless..
    Ofcourse if i break legendaries, i get the yellow stuff to make my own legendaries.. but if i cant trade them with friends, or dont want to/cant sell on AH,
    why not just drop the materials instead?
    Or with any other stuff..
    I would be just happy with any kind of Personal Trading
    Is it possible to have? If not, then why not?

    The reason they cut out Trading was to avoid Gold Sellers spamming the chat all day. Honestly, I feel it was a pretty smart move to cut out Trading if it means we don't have those jerks coming in and being all "Buy Gold Now Please". That annoys me.

    Getting onto my own post for this, I hope a few things are certainly balanced for PvP including the Vamp's Spear of No Movement/Action and the Berserker's "Spin to Win" attack. I can't remember how many times I have lost a PvP match because Spin to Win and Vamp Spear lock me in place or render me unable to act. The worst parts could be the short cool-downs or the high amount of damage that can be inflicted.

  • Making the insane mode more rewarding is a good idea for me , because while I was leveling up I couldn't really find any parties . It was not rewarding to play in a party when you could get the same exp while playing alone. Reducing the price of costumes was definitely needed and so was the change in pvp (although without more details I don't know exactly how it will turn out).

  • ShiniDShiniD Member

    Sad to see this and not sure if you guys have been reading any of the player feedback, no one asked for lower rewards on hard, people were asking for an increase in the really lacking rewards on insane.

    Selling hammers for gold also seems like a stupid move as most hammers will be generated by players who spend money, I understand the need for a cash shop, but an item that is mandatory for enhancing should not be sold in the cash shop.

  • What I feel needs to happen with free and cash shop items.
    Cash shop:
    Shop tickets-to allow players sell their goods for a limited time, but maybe give a free 1day shop pass for completing a specific weekly quest?

    EXP tickets-To allow people to grind faster for w.e reason

    Dye-You can already get outfits for free, but if you want them to look specifically like something, you gotta pay.

    Random revival tokens-good if you run out and want to gamble for a random amount of tokens, 1~10 If you run out, you get 3 a day anyway..
    Maybe implement something to spend ingame gold with a hefty fee depending on level and difficulty.

    Daily resets and entry tickets- Do more dailies and arenas(once a day use only)
    Full heal HP potions with a 40second cool down-incase you need this for back-up(limited usage per run, 3 maximum)

    Legendary gamble boxes-Receive random legendary lvl 15~60 Weapons, armor, accessies, Legendary recipes. and gold kritium fragments It's a gamble for those willing to pay to get better gear. What if you get something that wasnt for you class? Also make it "Account bound"

    Voice tickets!- Different voices for your fighter with examples please! These voice are horrid. Especially that.. Merchant.. I just know i better hear
    Eclair say "show-time!"(like in her SEA version) during her gun dance! Looking forward to her arrival! She's such a Devil May Cry Dante+Vergil
    Hybrid and i love it

    Bonus enhancement success rate tickets!-could be worth 5$ for 10% bonus rate for 20minutes
    Full Enhancement Success rate tickets!could be worth like 15$ if you honestly lack the patience.

    Class Rename Tickets-

    Free stuff:
    Outfits-Free outfit badges were nice. so i can't complain about wanting to keep that

    Hammers- Paying real money to grind a piece of gear i'm most likely not going to keep forever? Really? It's bad enough the stones take so much cash to craft 1!

    Whelstones(?) I feel like could be sold for gold since players run out of fragments quickly and need them for other things, and have each a give a different success rate over the other making it worth using those instead of inferior stones. I hardly remember how they're spelled.

    Pet food- Paying real money for something you already paid for.. is really unnecessary

    50% EXP, Gold, Drop rate bonus on weekends? :3

  • ZenicideZenicide Member
    edited June 2017

    @93E57LAJ3A said:
    Hello, I dont like the direction you are taking whit it, Succesful games make theyr money out of cosmetics and not any item wich breaks the balance of the playerbase, players want a balanced and enjoyable enviorement; if the first thing i see when loging in is a guy wich spent 500$ on all the siny stuff and a pletora of enhance hammers while being my next arena contender... is a quit call,

    Im sure you do know more than me on desing, marketing, balance, sales and everything related because afterall you are the profesionals, just giving my 2cents as a old school player wich saw alot of games live and die, and as we all know todays mmo is about having population, most games dont even last a month because are empty at launch.

    As personal note, pve gets boring fast. A focus in competitive pvp make games big and great, Thanks for reading.

    Quit crying, I just had to reply to this post because of how wrong it is........
    Games make money out of cosmetics sometimes yes, would you rather a game that can't make money shutdown?
    Why would you quit if someone spends 500$ ? This is so stupid, are you saying the game should remove the cash shop?
    I am not even P2W Yet i disagree with everything you said...

    Finally, competitive pvp does not make games big and great due to most games not requiring gear for it..... or having modes that gear doesn't rely on

  • GHYGFP5D6MGHYGFP5D6M Member
    edited June 2017

    I don't understand why ppl don't like the 50% price drop on the costumes,you should know that there are enough players here that buy costumes to look good and not get badges from it.
    Stop crying about ''p2w'' there are games that have a way worse economy/cashshop(elsword) and are still alive after many years.

  • @ShiniD said:
    Sad to see this and not sure if you guys have been reading any of the player feedback, no one asked for lower rewards on hard, people were asking for an increase in the really lacking rewards on insane.

    Selling hammers for gold also seems like a stupid move as most hammers will be generated by players who spend money, I understand the need for a cash shop, but an item that is mandatory for enhancing should not be sold in the cash shop.

    Making progression more time intensive (insane needs more time to clear) makes the grind more exhausting, I like it that way but most people seem to be allergic to grinding so yeah, its part of every MMO and RPG so deal with it or play another genre. Hard work pays off. Doing Insane Solo is possible for every class so bo problem if you find no party atm.
    In comparison with other f2p games its a clever move to offer Hammers for gold, because if you have maxed out gear you wont need hammers (atleast until next content is updated) and can spread it into the auction house, which will be good for nonpaying players, because it´s possible to farm gold even with 0 RP if you´re really Hardcore f2p player (playing with all twinks and then with 0 rp).

    In other versions your gear is going to break if you try to enhance your gear above +10, so you have to buy multiple legendary weapons for a few million gold only to fail again! <<<< Now thats real p2w

  • Honestly I dont mind reduced Hard rewards, the game really did go by quite fast at 8x. I agree that nobody should be able to cap in 3 days just casually spending his RP everyday.

  • DEXLHCL97TDEXLHCL97T Member
    edited June 2017

    Regarding Trading: Not being able to trade actually makes the game more unique in a way. See, many MMORPG's have gotten a lot easier over the past couple years in order to get a more solid playerbase. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, however, as a dedicated gamer I feel like I can't be really proud of my achievements when I know that other people can get the same stuff by not working hard at all.

    Without a trading system enabled everyone themselves have to work hard for their equipment and nobody can get really good max. level equipment without actually trying their best in group runs, since leeching on that level isn't even possible. All the more so If all the items for enhancement can only be grinded, all the time you spend and work you do feels so much more rewarding. As far as I personally am concerned I would be much more proud of my gear that way.

    I know it's just the minority of the players that think that way, so maybe still allow trading for low-rarity items maybe. But since there is auction house where stuff can be traded so to say the system is already there so it can as well be complete through player-trading directly.

    Thanks though for this amazing game you guys rock!

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