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Closed Beta Wrap-Up and Looking Forward

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Comments

  • ShiniDShiniD Member

    @Rorsh said:

    @TheGreyDemon said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

    I agree to this. Players didn't cap in 2 days because exp was too common. They capped because they could get infinite stamina via pots, and if you're persistent enough, you could cap in anything that requires less than 1500 minutes to cap in 2 days. Also, players didn't run insane because insane didn't make things harder. They just made things more annoying and take longer. Nobody wants to waste 5 hours on a town hub they could move from in 1 by going down a difficulty.

    In all honesty, unless you're a super persistent player that drains all their 1000% RP daily, leveling in Kritika is disturbingly slow, especially without ELITE status. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion they're doing this to push exp potions and obtain yet more profit by making the game more difficult if you play without cash, but that's just me.

    if insane difficulty takes you 5 times longer to finish I dont know what to tell you. I did level in insane from 1-60 and it was a breeze did not buy nor will buy rp pots while leveling its easy enough as it is

    @Raikuha said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @Felhammer said:
    You're nerfing hard mode exp? I agree with people who've made it clear already. BUFF Insane mode and give incentive to party up for it. If people wish to solo cool. But you should be promoting group content right?

    As it was mentioned before as well. Something needs to be done in regards to drops between Hard and Insane. Insane needs to offer something better.

    insane will now offer better xp.

    Where did you read that lol

    CBT = Hard x8 exp, Insane x8 exp
    OBT = Hard x6 exp, Insane x8 exp

    That's where you see that insane will offer better xp. Of course it might be more time consuming than the Hard dungeons, so people with limited time (or lesser skills) to play might not be able to take full advantage of their RP.

    Sorry but there is no increase in exp on insane only a decrease for hard.

  • @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @TheGreyDemon said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

    I agree to this. Players didn't cap in 2 days because exp was too common. They capped because they could get infinite stamina via pots, and if you're persistent enough, you could cap in anything that requires less than 1500 minutes to cap in 2 days. Also, players didn't run insane because insane didn't make things harder. They just made things more annoying and take longer. Nobody wants to waste 5 hours on a town hub they could move from in 1 by going down a difficulty.

    In all honesty, unless you're a super persistent player that drains all their 1000% RP daily, leveling in Kritika is disturbingly slow, especially without ELITE status. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion they're doing this to push exp potions and obtain yet more profit by making the game more difficult if you play without cash, but that's just me.

    if insane difficulty takes you 5 times longer to finish I dont know what to tell you. I did level in insane from 1-60 and it was a breeze did not buy nor will buy rp pots while leveling its easy enough as it is

    @Raikuha said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @Felhammer said:
    You're nerfing hard mode exp? I agree with people who've made it clear already. BUFF Insane mode and give incentive to party up for it. If people wish to solo cool. But you should be promoting group content right?

    As it was mentioned before as well. Something needs to be done in regards to drops between Hard and Insane. Insane needs to offer something better.

    insane will now offer better xp.

    Where did you read that lol

    CBT = Hard x8 exp, Insane x8 exp
    OBT = Hard x6 exp, Insane x8 exp

    That's where you see that insane will offer better xp. Of course it might be more time consuming than the Hard dungeons, so people with limited time (or lesser skills) to play might not be able to take full advantage of their RP.

    Sorry but there is no increase in exp on insane only a decrease for hard.

    Insane and Hard exp were both 8x in CBT.. they're lowering the exp earned from hard in OBT to 6x.
    Insane still gives 8x exp, which is more than hard.

  • ShiniDShiniD Member

    @WAJ3JWYENY said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @TheGreyDemon said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

    I agree to this. Players didn't cap in 2 days because exp was too common. They capped because they could get infinite stamina via pots, and if you're persistent enough, you could cap in anything that requires less than 1500 minutes to cap in 2 days. Also, players didn't run insane because insane didn't make things harder. They just made things more annoying and take longer. Nobody wants to waste 5 hours on a town hub they could move from in 1 by going down a difficulty.

    In all honesty, unless you're a super persistent player that drains all their 1000% RP daily, leveling in Kritika is disturbingly slow, especially without ELITE status. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion they're doing this to push exp potions and obtain yet more profit by making the game more difficult if you play without cash, but that's just me.

    if insane difficulty takes you 5 times longer to finish I dont know what to tell you. I did level in insane from 1-60 and it was a breeze did not buy nor will buy rp pots while leveling its easy enough as it is

    @Raikuha said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @Felhammer said:
    You're nerfing hard mode exp? I agree with people who've made it clear already. BUFF Insane mode and give incentive to party up for it. If people wish to solo cool. But you should be promoting group content right?

    As it was mentioned before as well. Something needs to be done in regards to drops between Hard and Insane. Insane needs to offer something better.

    insane will now offer better xp.

    Where did you read that lol

    CBT = Hard x8 exp, Insane x8 exp
    OBT = Hard x6 exp, Insane x8 exp

    That's where you see that insane will offer better xp. Of course it might be more time consuming than the Hard dungeons, so people with limited time (or lesser skills) to play might not be able to take full advantage of their RP.

    Sorry but there is no increase in exp on insane only a decrease for hard.

    Insane and Hard exp were both 8x in CBT.. they're lowering the exp earned from hard in OBT to 6x.
    Insane still gives 8x exp, which is more than hard.

    Yes lol with this change insane is giving more than hard is, but it is not an increase in exp.

  • I want to know is when is going to exit the OBT?

  • @EMT3J99EJH said:
    I am honestly disappointed in how verbally abusive so many players are in this thread. Leaving feedback in such an aggressive way will only cause the thing you are upset about to become even further away. If you want things to change, post your opinions properly as your words are affecting everyone that reads them, not just the staff.

    Here is my take on the situation
    -Hard EXP change-
    I played from 1-65 almost 100% on insane made. I honestly noticed very little difference between insane and hard, so I see this exp change having little to no effect on the leveling speed. The effect of this change will cause players to play on insane mode more just for the bonus exp, and at most, you may cut maybe 4 hours or so off the level up time, or actually speed the leveling time up by forcing players to form a party ~thus, boosting exp gain. If your goal is to slow the exp gain down, this is not going to be a successful method.
    What I advise is a change in the revive stone system. The CBT was far too liberal with the number of stones handed out, and I honestly had not even the slightest concern with running out at any given point in time. By adding a nerf to the revive stone system of some type, limiting the number players can reliably gain, you will encourage more grouping for insane, or force the players who are not adapt at fighting insane bosses solo to play on hard - accepting the reduced exp rate. I will also go as far to say that Insane mode needs a buff of some type as well - but not exp. It needs some type of drop to make running it more worth while. Perhaps refining stones, or hammers or something, Im not sure - but bring this up to your next group meeting to talk about.

    -Costumes, and Hammers-
    The balance that is relative here is [costume cost] to normal kred gain (vs) [EMP cost] to kred conversion. The change in costume price is positive for the F2P players, and even VIP players as during the whole CBT, I did not even amass 1k kreds. This is an acceptable speed for F2P. However when you compare this to the EMP to kred conversion, we run into a rather major issue, as so many players have pointed out. Assuming a 20$ USD price payment, that is a little over 2 full costume boxes - each that can be broken down into badges. 100$ USD = 12 full costume bundles, each that can be broken down into a decent stack of badges each. These badges and the costume system are the real end game of Kritika, and allowing paying players to get too strong too fast will not only upset the balance, it will cause your big paying players to burn out and quit the game sooner, thus leading to a loss in revenue.
    My advise is this - put some sort of limit per day on the costume bundles. I can see us handling maybe 1 to 2 bundle boxes a day to paid players without much of an imbalance, and it will keep your players playing and paying.

    To the hammer issue - its not an issue. They have already said they will later on be implementing a cost maximum on items that I am sure will be relative to the levels of the respective items.

    Costumes do add a buff, but is that really why players go for that I'd say both yes and no players like fashion. Players enjoy having their character look their best. Wish they had that vamp screenshot costume for sale. The costume idea I'd say they took that from Vindictus they did take other ideas from there like the play system those who have played that before entering Kritika should know what I'm talking about. Most MMOs are open world or something like Mario something like a 2 dimensional world (Elsword).
    Those yetis looked like an idea from Borderlands 2 for they looked more like Bullymongs also seen other stuff that looked like an idea from other games.

  • TFoxenTFoxen Member

    So...still no news on OBT ata ?

  • Yet you guys still don't get it... They have to strike a balance right.

    They have to make P2W players feel like they are getting their money's worth when spending their real cash so that the actual developers can get paid for their hard work. Then they also have to make sure that F2P players don't feel so overshadowed by the gear max that P2W players make when they spend sooo much money that they get to max sooo fast that they lose interest and quit the game.

    I understand the concern of the F2P players but as I've said before P2W players keep the game going for F2P players you will have to co-exist no matter how you look at this. P2W will NEED to have an advantage no matter what and as someone stated before to certain whales it just doesn't matter how expensive you make something they are going to shell out the cash for it.

    This adjustment that was made has made it easier for those F2P players to spend lower amounts of cash to get some of those costumes and tried to make it less of an investment of your hard earned cash. Obviously at this point they wouldn't be completely F2P but thats kind of the point again put yourself in the devs shoes. They want everyone to benefit that is involved. F2P Players can get cool costumes Devs get more money and Whales can whale out harder and see more return...

    Try to put yourself in everyone's shoes that are involved before spewing molten lava crazy over something that you haven't even seen the effects from yet... but I can say that En Masse seems to have their crap together Vses other major companies I have seen that put out MMO content...

  • SmorecerorSmoreceror Member, Administrator, EME Staff mod
    edited June 2017

    Hi again, everyone! The folks at ALLM were very quick to provide some clarification to a community feedback report I sent out yesterday. I’ll break it down by topic below.

    I’m sure I didn’t get everyone’s questions, but I wanted to try and give you an update on ALLM’s thoughts on some of the big topics of discussion out there. The big takeaway here is, Allm is VERY open to your feedback, but they’d like to test changes a bit at a time, give you a chance to try them out in-game, and then look at additional options from there. Thanks again for talking with us, everyone! We’re looking forward to discussing more in OBT!

    Hard vs. Insane
    We’ve definitely heard some player discontent around the reduction on hard EXP. As Knoxxer mentioned in his post, the ease of completing hard missions combined with the level of experience they were paying out just made it too easy to blast through levels solo. We want that speed to be available, but want the additional difficulty of Insane to justify it. We also hope to incentivize grouping with others by doing so – ideally, it helps to promote guild play (you can get some cool perks for playing in guilds, you know!).

    That said, ALLM has plans to increase the incentives in Insane mode in upcoming patches. Not the raw experience numbers, mind you, but some of the rewards. These changes won’t be there at OBT, but they will be coming in patches a bit further down the road. We hope that the experience rate, combined with upcoming increased rewards, will incentivize players to party up and attempt Insane instead of relying on soloing hard. Hard will still be there when you want to solo! It will just be a bit slower.

    Badges
    Allm is discussing new ways to make badges available through regular play. They want to be very cautious about their approach here, as any change could have a large affect. They’re working on some options, and will provide more information when they’re confident on the route forward.

    Hammers and the Auction House
    The Auction House is tricky. We want to make sure that any changes made are incremental, measured, and then react accordingly to player’s thoughts once changes have been out in the wild for a bit. We’re starting by making hammers available for gold in the Auction House to begin testing this system. If the economy seems to react well to this change, we’ll begin to introduce gold purchase options for more types of items. Eventually, the current plan is to make everything except the very highest-tier gear purchasable with gold. But again, we want to introduce that slowly.

    Please give it a shot in OBT and let us know your thoughts – we’d like to get your first-hand impressions before altering course. If it doesn’t work out, Allm stressed that they’re definitely open to considering other options.

    Additional Questions
    Are we going to have peer to peer trading when OBT starts?
    Allm wants to focus trade through the Auction House. As mentioned above, we’ll open up more items to be available with gold as we monitor the economy.

    Why make gear sellable for 1 gold?
    This is partially to prevent bots. As some players have mentioned, you can sell gear for more once you hit 65. It seems like, at the heart of this question, is a desire to have more varied uses for the items you get while playing. We hope that the additional option of listing on the auction house will help give you more choice with your Danger Zone spoils.

    Will items ever be purchasable for gold AND Kred in the AH? Will one replace the other?
    The current plan is to eventually make all items and consumables (paid items included) except for quest item, event items, and the very highest-tier gear tradeable with gold in the Auction House. As I mentioned above, we’ll be introducing items that are available for gold slowly, listening to your feedback, and measuring the affect as we go. Allm is open to changing this in the future if it doesn’t work out, but it’s the current plan.

    More drop diversity in Starhenge?
    Allm let me know that they discovered a bug in Starhenge that was making it so that hammers weren’t dropping as originally intended, so that’s another potential source of hammers. Charms are something else that folks have requested, which you can get by trading Orange Kritium Shards from Starhenge.

  • No OBT date yet? I want to play again!!!

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭

    @Smoreceror "Charms are something else that folks have requested, which you can get by trading Red Mega Boss Souls from Starhenge."

    You mean orange kritium, not red mega boss souls, right?

  • @ShiniD said:

    @WAJ3JWYENY said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @TheGreyDemon said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

    I agree to this. Players didn't cap in 2 days because exp was too common. They capped because they could get infinite stamina via pots, and if you're persistent enough, you could cap in anything that requires less than 1500 minutes to cap in 2 days. Also, players didn't run insane because insane didn't make things harder. They just made things more annoying and take longer. Nobody wants to waste 5 hours on a town hub they could move from in 1 by going down a difficulty.

    In all honesty, unless you're a super persistent player that drains all their 1000% RP daily, leveling in Kritika is disturbingly slow, especially without ELITE status. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion they're doing this to push exp potions and obtain yet more profit by making the game more difficult if you play without cash, but that's just me.

    if insane difficulty takes you 5 times longer to finish I dont know what to tell you. I did level in insane from 1-60 and it was a breeze did not buy nor will buy rp pots while leveling its easy enough as it is

    @Raikuha said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @Felhammer said:
    You're nerfing hard mode exp? I agree with people who've made it clear already. BUFF Insane mode and give incentive to party up for it. If people wish to solo cool. But you should be promoting group content right?

    As it was mentioned before as well. Something needs to be done in regards to drops between Hard and Insane. Insane needs to offer something better.

    insane will now offer better xp.

    Where did you read that lol

    CBT = Hard x8 exp, Insane x8 exp
    OBT = Hard x6 exp, Insane x8 exp

    That's where you see that insane will offer better xp. Of course it might be more time consuming than the Hard dungeons, so people with limited time (or lesser skills) to play might not be able to take full advantage of their RP.

    Sorry but there is no increase in exp on insane only a decrease for hard.

    Insane and Hard exp were both 8x in CBT.. they're lowering the exp earned from hard in OBT to 6x.
    Insane still gives 8x exp, which is more than hard.

    Yes lol with this change insane is giving more than hard is, but it is not an increase in exp.

    ya exp for insane stays the same but exp for hard was decreased. They should have increased the amount of exp for insane instead of lowering it for hard

  • they should auto que for the players looking for specific dungeon because its time consuming looking for party which is not practical if you are in hurry.

  • @KenzoZangetsu said:
    they should auto que for the players looking for specific dungeon because its time consuming looking for party which is not practical if you are in hurry.

    WOAH I totally agree with this
    We need a queue option for dungeons

  • @Smoreceror said:
    Hi again, everyone! The folks at ALLM were very quick to provide some clarification to a community feedback report I sent out yesterday. I’ll break it down by topic below.

    I’m sure I didn’t get everyone’s questions, but I wanted to try and give you an update on ALLM’s thoughts on some of the big topics of discussion out there. The big takeaway here is, Allm is VERY open to your feedback, but they’d like to test changes a bit at a time, give you a chance to try them out in-game, and then look at additional options from there. Thanks again for talking with us, everyone! We’re looking forward to discussing more in OBT!

    Hard vs. Insane
    We’ve definitely heard some player discontent around the reduction on hard EXP. As Knoxxer mentioned in his post, the ease of completing hard missions combined with the level of experience they were paying out just made it too easy to blast through levels solo. We want that speed to be available, but want the additional difficulty of Insane to justify it. We also hope to incentivize grouping with others by doing so – ideally, it helps to promote guild play (you can get some cool perks for playing in guilds, you know!).

    That said, ALLM has plans to increase the incentives in Insane mode in upcoming patches. Not the raw experience numbers, mind you, but some of the rewards. These changes won’t be there at OBT, but they will be coming in patches a bit further down the road. We hope that the experience rate, combined with upcoming increased rewards, will incentivize players to party up and attempt Insane instead of relying on soloing hard. Hard will still be there when you want to solo! It will just be a bit slower.

    Badges
    Allm is discussing new ways to make badges available through regular play. They want to be very cautious about their approach here, as any change could have a large affect. They’re working on some options, and will provide more information when they’re confident on the route forward.

    Hammers and the Auction House
    The Auction House is tricky. We want to make sure that any changes made are incremental, measured, and then react accordingly to player’s thoughts once changes have been out in the wild for a bit. We’re starting by making hammers available for gold in the Auction House to begin testing this system. If the economy seems to react well to this change, we’ll begin to introduce gold purchase options for more types of items. Eventually, the current plan is to make everything except the very highest-tier gear purchasable with gold. But again, we want to introduce that slowly.

    Please give it a shot in OBT and let us know your thoughts – we’d like to get your first-hand impressions before altering course. If it doesn’t work out, Allm stressed that they’re definitely open to considering other options.

    Additional Questions
    Are we going to have peer to peer trading when OBT starts?
    Allm wants to focus trade through the Auction House. As mentioned above, we’ll open up more items to be available with gold as we monitor the economy.

    Why make gear sellable for 1 gold?
    This is partially to prevent bots. As some players have mentioned, you can sell gear for more once you hit 65. It seems like, at the heart of this question, is a desire to have more varied uses for the items you get while playing. We hope that the additional option of listing on the auction house will help give you more choice with your Danger Zone spoils.

    Will items ever be purchasable for gold AND Kred in the AH? Will one replace the other?
    The current plan is to eventually make all items and consumables (paid items included) except for quest item, event items, and the very highest-tier gear tradeable with gold in the Auction House. As I mentioned above, we’ll be introducing items that are available for gold slowly, listening to your feedback, and measuring the affect as we go. Allm is open to changing this in the future if it doesn’t work out, but it’s the current plan.

    More drop diversity in Starhenge?
    Allm let me know that they discovered a bug in Starhenge that was making it so that hammers weren’t dropping as originally intended, so that’s another potential source of hammers. Charms are something else that folks have requested, which you can get by trading Red Mega Boss Souls from Starhenge.

    Smorc, this boils down to... "At this current time, allm isnt going to make any suggested changes"... even if its not now. They should understand. We expect them to deviate from other regions and l change some of these systems.

    For example, trading is most due to starhenge weapons being useless to salvage, in that they give nothing but gold kritium, which is very plentiful conpared to hero keystones and fragments. So in lieu of trading this super cool weapon you just got to your friend who could use it. You can use it..so youre forced to salvage it into whats just useless junk at 65.

    As always, thanks for keeping us informed. Hope you send back the sentiment NA wants change, if not now. Soonish, when they arent rushing for release.

  • @Jemmy said:
    Nerfing the exp from x8 to x6 on hard mode is actually a terrible move honestly. That just slows down the leveling process for those who want to solo. Should keep the exp at x8 and increase insane mode exp further instead. That would give people an incentive to do insane more while leveling, honestly.

    But that's just my two cents. All in all, it was a really fine closed beta and I enjoyed playing. Can't wait for OBT!

    not really its the best move im a solo player and even i thought leveling was to fast just do insane modes if u wana level fast i use catspaw and solo insane modes no problem

  • will you guys be adding eclair and nobleria like the other kritika game has them and if your gona add monk might as well add them i loved using eclair and nobleria

  • oh and we need a trade system

  • SmorecerorSmoreceror Member, Administrator, EME Staff mod

    @NKL5GA5XNG said:
    No OBT date yet? I want to play again!!!

    @Grievuuz said:
    @Smoreceror "Charms are something else that folks have requested, which you can get by trading Red Mega Boss Souls from Starhenge."

    You mean orange kritium, not red mega boss souls, right?

    Gah! Yes, you're right :s

  • 2EndLifes4u2EndLifes4u Member ✭✭

    i have a request for the publisher and i guess it will make most of people feels better at the opening
    instead of giving us 15-60-65 cbt leveling reward only , dont we deserve all of them including the awesome 40-45 level reward lol

  • @Smoreceror said:
    Are we going to have peer to peer trading when OBT starts?
    Allm wants to focus trade through the Auction House. As mentioned above, we’ll open up more items to be available with gold as we monitor the economy.

    Good evening Smorceror, and thank you for your response to the issues presented throughout the thread. Unfortunately, I have a few criticisms that address the point mentioned in the quote above.

    I would really like to stress that the choices presented make it very difficult for players to safely give items to their friends, and this issue becomes even more prominent if you guys enforce min/max prices. One game that I played in the past also tried to enforce trades with a cash-based currency and minimum prices. Most of the time, the players ended up trading at this precise minimum price. Furthermore, many decided that items were worth less than their minimum prices and simply refused to purchase items period. I can provide more details with concrete examples as well as a complete case study if it will help convince you that enforced min/max prices are a bad idea without careful and constant consideration, a task that takes away from the developers' time.

    Another point I would like to mention is that player interaction has been one of the prime distinctions made between MMOs and other game genres, and allowing players to assist each other through direct item exchange is, in my opinion, a key part of these interactions. I understand that there are some risks involved in trading, as it becomes much easier to trade with bots/gold sellers/etc, but I believe the option to help your friends far outweighs any negatives brought about by the aforementioned problems.

    As many players have stated before me, finding a legendary item that you can't use is an excruciating experience. Said experience is made even worse when the item is one that a friend could have used instead, especially if the two of you completed the dungeon together. I understand that you have stated that gold exchanges will be made possible going forward, but given the current situation, it would be impossible for one of these players to pass the other player the item unless the receiving player spends real money or obtains kred through some other method. It is especially difficult for newer players to obtain kred as they will not have anything of value to sell. This completely paywalls the exchange of items between lowered level players and is definitely a factor that will discourage players from fueling the game's economy. Furthermore, enforced minimum prices could potentially make this exchange even less favorable, as the players will not be able to charge each other extremely low amounts for the exchange. This, in essence raises the paywall and makes the game even less appealing for newer players.

    The auction house based system also makes it so that players who do try to hand an item to a friend might accidentally end up selling the item to the wrong player. It is definitely more than just possible for another player to coincidentally refresh the auction house page, spot the cheap item, and grab it before the intended receiver so much as has a chance to even see the item.

    In summary, the removal of a trade system causes much more harm than benefit, especially if one takes the lower leveled player population into account.

  • DEXLHCL97TDEXLHCL97T Member
    edited June 2017

    Guys cut Smore and ALLM some slack here. They showed their appreciation for us by reacting so quickly with a feedback, which was really amazing.
    It's unreasonable and, especially, unpredictable to make changes right away to the extent that is being requested. Remember, the game is only about to hit open beta, and not to be launched. Open beta is exactly there to work on the requested changes while it is running. They are lacking the required player data to get an accurate prediction down on how things would change.

    They left openings for further changes of our big topics, which proves that they care about the playerbase. That is about as much as anyone could do at this point. The point of this discussion is mainly to collect ideas to try out in open beta. Really not before open beta starts. Those are goals for before official launch, there is still lots of time.

    Smore gave us all the feedback he could, and I'm sure there will be in-depth discussions while open beta is running/ Q&A with the community manager. Let's just wait for the open beta start and see what they will be able to do for us. Personally, as long as they launch open beta soon, I have all the proof and trust I need to really jump into the game ;)

  • @SupremeTentacle said:

    @Smoreceror said:
    Are we going to have peer to peer trading when OBT starts?
    Allm wants to focus trade through the Auction House. As mentioned above, we’ll open up more items to be available with gold as we monitor the economy.

    Good evening Smorceror, and thank you for your response to the issues presented throughout the thread. Unfortunately, I have a few criticisms that address the point mentioned in the quote above.

    I would really like to stress that the choices presented make it very difficult for players to safely give items to their friends, and this issue becomes even more prominent if you guys enforce min/max prices. One game that I played in the past also tried to enforce trades with a cash-based currency and minimum prices. Most of the time, the players ended up trading at this precise minimum price. Furthermore, many decided that items were worth less than their minimum prices and simply refused to purchase items period. I can provide more details with concrete examples as well as a complete case study if it will help convince you that enforced min/max prices are a bad idea without careful and constant consideration, a task that takes away from the developers' time.

    Another point I would like to mention is that player interaction has been one of the prime distinctions made between MMOs and other game genres, and allowing players to assist each other through direct item exchange is, in my opinion, a key part of these interactions. I understand that there are some risks involved in trading, as it becomes much easier to trade with bots/gold sellers/etc, but I believe the option to help your friends far outweighs any negatives brought about by the aforementioned problems.

    As many players have stated before me, finding a legendary item that you can't use is an excruciating experience. Said experience is made even worse when the item is one that a friend could have used instead, especially if the two of you completed the dungeon together. I understand that you have stated that gold exchanges will be made possible going forward, but given the current situation, it would be impossible for one of these players to pass the other player the item unless the receiving player spends real money or obtains kred through some other method. It is especially difficult for newer players to obtain kred as they will not have anything of value to sell. This completely paywalls the exchange of items between lowered level players and is definitely a factor that will discourage players from fueling the game's economy. Furthermore, enforced minimum prices could potentially make this exchange even less favorable, as the players will not be able to charge each other extremely low amounts for the exchange. This, in essence raises the paywall and makes the game even less appealing for newer players.

    The auction house based system also makes it so that players who do try to hand an item to a friend might accidentally end up selling the item to the wrong player. It is definitely more than just possible for another player to coincidentally refresh the auction house page, spot the cheap item, and grab it before the intended receiver so much as has a chance to even see the item.

    In summary, the removal of a trade system causes much more harm than benefit, especially if one takes the lower leveled player population into account.

    Just wanted to throw support behind this. All the games ive played that have lasted the test of time have had p2p trading.

  • ShiniDShiniD Member

    @WAJ3JWYENY said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @WAJ3JWYENY said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @TheGreyDemon said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    So the AH will still be Kred based for equipment (arguably the most P2W thing right now), and there will still be zero way to earn money prior to 60 since we can't vendor gear for money.

    Very, very disappointed.

    Nerfing exp gain is also the wrong move. Insane needs to give higher rewards; it doesn't, and having it give marginally more exp than hard (by nerfing hard rewards) isn't the right solution.

    Also there was no talk about performance; specifically the insane freezing of the client. This is a major issue and needs to be resolved by OBT.

    Overall, I'm fine with the game taking a month to come out if it means meaningfully improving it. But if it's just throwing a pvp balance patch in with some very minor tweaks, I'm not going to be happy.

    But hey, at least costume bundles were lowered to $10; thanks for that.

    I agree to this. Players didn't cap in 2 days because exp was too common. They capped because they could get infinite stamina via pots, and if you're persistent enough, you could cap in anything that requires less than 1500 minutes to cap in 2 days. Also, players didn't run insane because insane didn't make things harder. They just made things more annoying and take longer. Nobody wants to waste 5 hours on a town hub they could move from in 1 by going down a difficulty.

    In all honesty, unless you're a super persistent player that drains all their 1000% RP daily, leveling in Kritika is disturbingly slow, especially without ELITE status. Now, I have a sneaking suspicion they're doing this to push exp potions and obtain yet more profit by making the game more difficult if you play without cash, but that's just me.

    if insane difficulty takes you 5 times longer to finish I dont know what to tell you. I did level in insane from 1-60 and it was a breeze did not buy nor will buy rp pots while leveling its easy enough as it is

    @Raikuha said:

    @ShiniD said:

    @Rorsh said:

    @Felhammer said:
    You're nerfing hard mode exp? I agree with people who've made it clear already. BUFF Insane mode and give incentive to party up for it. If people wish to solo cool. But you should be promoting group content right?

    As it was mentioned before as well. Something needs to be done in regards to drops between Hard and Insane. Insane needs to offer something better.

    insane will now offer better xp.

    Where did you read that lol

    CBT = Hard x8 exp, Insane x8 exp
    OBT = Hard x6 exp, Insane x8 exp

    That's where you see that insane will offer better xp. Of course it might be more time consuming than the Hard dungeons, so people with limited time (or lesser skills) to play might not be able to take full advantage of their RP.

    Sorry but there is no increase in exp on insane only a decrease for hard.

    Insane and Hard exp were both 8x in CBT.. they're lowering the exp earned from hard in OBT to 6x.
    Insane still gives 8x exp, which is more than hard.

    Yes lol with this change insane is giving more than hard is, but it is not an increase in exp.

    ya exp for insane stays the same but exp for hard was decreased. They should have increased the amount of exp for insane instead of lowering it for hard

    Yeah they should definitely do it that way

  • PhoenixShiPhoenixShi Member
    edited June 2017

    What about the "difficulty" changes you made, that is the excessive damage increase in this version? Even with it doing insane mode with a range/indirect combat character is easy enough, but it's exceedingly punishing to even the smallest of errors for melee characters, especially the ones with lower defence. Also if you were to be playing with others, as you indicate you want to encourage, that will mean some degree of lag/delays, which will be heavily punished with such high damage mobs.

    Then I'm sure this will be unpopular, but you may want to reduce base XP gains for level 25+ content. When using less than 100 RP per day, no XP bonuses, or doing any extra dungeon runs after level 25, I hit level 65 without having even touched the last dungeon in Xanadu. Usually you should have to at least clear all the content, then likely do some extra dungeon runs on top of it.

  • edited June 2017

    @PhoenixShi said:
    Then I'm sure this will be unpopular, but you may want to reduce base XP gains for level 25+ content. When using less than 100 RP per day, no XP bonuses, or doing any extra dungeon runs after level 25, I hit level 65 without having even touched the last dungeon in Xanadu. Usually you should have to at least clear all the content, then likely do some extra dungeon runs on top of it.

    Yup, we level way too fast. I actually really agree with the nerfs to hard mode's exp...

  • UtsaUtsa Member

    @TheGreyDemon
    It's more like I don't really care if someone is P2W or not cause I'm not a person to complain about how big the gap between myself and these 'whales' when that gap, and I mean the gap itself, does not directly affect my gameplay. Someone spending $6k does not prevent me from playing the game. Someone spending $6k does not make me all emo about the game and quit. This game is not a traditional MMO where you are forced to be competing with another person at some point in your gameplay. You literally have a choice of PvPing a certain person or not. It's not a queue system where you're forced to play against those people. If you don't like someone's whaling, just go to the next PvP room.

    My opinion is that its not logical to protest the P2W aspect when the P2W aspect does not ruin the game for F2P players. If you can explain to me how a person paying massive amounts of money can have a direct and unavoidable impact on F2P players? Besides making them jealous of what they don't have?

    • You don't have to buy hammers from P2W players to progress. You can farm it yourself, even if it is a slower process. Buying it from other players is a convenience. Especially if they are making gold drops 100% with 0 RP means you can just farm gold and buy the hammers if you wish to. Good gear is a luxury. You don't need it to play the game, in fact you play the game to obtain it and upgrade it.
    • That superiority stuff doesn't only come from P2W. Even if you take it out, you'll still have the same community of elitist aholes with a huge PvP ego. It's common gaming culture. People will always find a way to say they're better.
    • If F2P players resort to exploits then they are in the wrong and cannot be blamed on anyone but themselves. You can't even trade in the game so how can you trade massive amounts of gold for premium currency? Unless you use third party means and that's just plain stupid and asking for scams = not En Masse responsibility and/or result in bans. Basically same outcome as exploits and botting.
    • I don't recall clearly but the costume set bonuses from higher grade costumes are not that high. Like nowhere near 1k attack difference kind of high.
      And you will have to spend massive amounts of money to get there. I don't think it's worth tbh, but whales will be whales and it won't make that huge of a difference in PvP. (Compared to the ridiculously high stats in other versions, the difference between a Purple grade costume and Blue grade was being able to 2 shot even in re-worked PvP.)

    You make it seem like its a desperate problem when you don't even actually know how it'll play out yet. It's not like I don't expect P2W whales to be everywhere in PvP but I am not concerned because it's so easy to avoid them. Leader of the room? Just kick. It's so quick to learn who abuses P2W and who doesn't and it's so quick to avoid PvPing someone when you know. I still stand by it not directly affecting an individual's game play.

  • ChrisehChriseh Member
    edited June 2017

    I'm disappointed. I don't think levelling is painful, but I don't think this was the solution we were looking forward to or even promised on stream. Especially when this game provokes you to level multiple characters to 65 for the devotion buff. Our game version doesn't even offer the EXP bonus to alt characters once you reach X level on your main, as other regions do.

    Not even a handful of individuals got to 65 in two days and those that did literally never slept, they stated as much themselves, choosing to run dungeons with 0 RP just for the achievement of first 65. Why then the majority is being compared to them is crazy to me, when most people hit it within 3-4 days using all of their RP.

    I watched EME's stream suggesting they'd do more for 'Insane difficulty rewards' and it seems the idea instead was to nerf hard mode, putting no real incentive on Insane other than an extra 2% and the belief that you have a higher chance for legendaries, something that still remains unproven from players running Starhenge dungeons, as a lot of people saw them from hard mode too, but that could just be a direct correlation of the quantity of people running that mode of difficulty.

    And to those saying "I levelled so fast I had to wait 2 levels before I could quest again" that's not an issue with EXP being too good, if anything that would point to the opposite. EXP needed for levels is erratic and different for each, some higher levels require less EXP than low levels. This happens to everyone, and is mostly seen around mid/late twenties, somewhere in the 40's and again in the 50's from memory. Don't take my word for it, go and find Carthh's spreadsheet and look at the EXP needed per level to see just how random it is.

  • they should increase the difficulty of the dungeones and increase exp and drop, and make them less repetitive (doing 5-6 times the same dungeon for each quest), they are too easy, Hard mode should be barely soloable and insane should need 4 people and give best rewards,

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭

    @Utsa The raw badge stats (120 purple badges) are 4x higher than what non-paying or low-paying players will have to begin with, which is like +24% crit damage, +200 crit rate, +4000 attack, +5% attack speed etc. outside of the set bonuses, which are very, very good, I dont remember what the 9/9 set bonus was, but it was really good.

    On top of that there are the purple costumes + sigils which also have significantly higher stats.

    There are a very, very big difference between the whales and low paying playerbase, especially since they will earn a top spot on the Arena (PvE) scoreboard the first weeks, which will give them wings that in turn provides them with even higher stats like +10% boss damage and 1k attack.

    low paying players will catch up for sure, but it'll take months, maybe even half a year.

    the P2W aspect of the costume badges will ruin competitive PvE for a long time - if there were no scoreboards, we wouldn't be complaining, but seeing how theres character progress (you win badges based on your weekly arena rank + potential wings if high enough), and the competitive aspect involved, it has a high impact on a lot of the playerbase.

    It's fine if you don't feel it impairs you personally, but you can't speak for everyone.

  • ExpedExped Member

    Me and most of my guild will start with purple costume + purple sigil , 3 purple badges 6 blue badges. Roughly 1.800$. 180,000 EMP. I also know a few people going 9/9 purple badges and purple with purple sigil which is 300k emp

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