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Assassin Info - Wound Debuff on Shadow Charge (Level 60 Skill)

Surprised there's still no posts to explain this, so here it is:

- The skill itself applies a "Wound" debuff to all enemies struck.

- The "Wound" debuff lasts 20 seconds

- The "Wound" debuff detonates when reaching 10+ bleed stacks to inflict the "Fast Bleeding" debuff which is just a stronger bleeding. "Wound" is instantly detonated if the enemy already had 10+ bleed stacks when struck by Shadow Charge. The number of normal bleed stacks doesn't affect the "Fast Bleeding" debuff (e.g. detonating anywhere between 10-20 bleed stacks is the same as detonating 10 bleed stacks).

- Regular bleeding debuff has a bleed level of 2. "Fast Bleeding" from Shadow Charge has a bleed level of 22 at level 1 Shadow Charge, adding 2 bleed levels to the debuff for each additional level of Shadow Charge (e.g. level 24 bleeding at level 2 Shadow Charge). I believe the bleeding level only affects the bleed damage DoT, and not the additional bleeding bonus damage from skills like Kill Thrust and Fireblast, but can't confirm since I've only tested with level 2 Shadow Charge.

- "Fast Bleeding" lasts 20 seconds and acts similar to a normal bleed stack count of 20. "Fast Bleeding" is consumed by Kill Thrust in the same way normal bleed stacks are. "Fast Bleeding" applies the same bonus effects that a normal bleed stack of 10-20 does (e.g. invincibility and stun on Kill Thrust, stun on Fireblast).

- "Fast Bleeding" gives a slightly higher bleeding bonus damage on applicable skills (e.g. Kill Thrust, Fireblast, etc.) than a normal bleed stack of 20. The difference in bonus damage was difficult to test, but I'm estimating about 10-15% more damage when using Kill Thrust and Fireblast on "Fast Bleeding" compared to a normal bleed stack of 20. Damage tested with level 2 Shadow Charge (level 24 "Fast Bleeding").

- "Fast Bleeding" and normal bleed stacks don't overlap the stacks to make applicable skills stronger (e.g. the highest bleed stack bonus is still 20, it doesn't overlap the debuff stacks to make it 20 + 20 = 40). However, enemies can still be afflicted with both "Fast Bleeding" and a normal bleed stack of 20 at the same time. Applicable skills will apply the "Fast Bleeding" bonus damage instead of the normal bleed stack if you have both debuffs applied.

- Kill Thrust will consume the normal bleed stack first before consuming "Fast Bleeding". If the normal bleed stack is strictly less than 10 (e.g. 1-9), then Kill Thrust will consume both the normal bleed stack and "Fast Bleeding" at the same time, but only applies the bleed damage bonus from "Fast Bleeding" (e.g. you waste the normal bleed stacks). If the normal bleed stack is 10-20, Kill Thrust will consume only the normal bleed stack first and apply the damage bonus from "Fast Bleeding", and "Fast Bleeding" will not be consumed. You can continuously stack normal bleeding to make sure you don't consume "Fast Bleeding" on Kill Thrust. There is no benefit to consuming "Fast Bleeding" because consuming it means you lose the higher bonus damage and the stronger bleeding DoT over the 20 second duration.

Comments

  • NopiNopi Member ✭✭✭

    Good info. I kinda figured things, tough not as extensively since I'm going jack of trades with most of my characters. Now, does this also apply to EX backslash bleed consumption as well? From my experience, EX backslash removes 5 normal bleed stacks. At least I do see the number of sacks dropping by 5 whenever I use that skill.

    As a sort of off topic, knowing that each set of bleed stacks has it's own timer that runs from the time each bleed stacking skill is used, how do you manage yours?

  • ElysuuElysuu Member
    edited August 2017

    Spam filter strikes again...

    @Nopi I actually didn't want to test that when I was testing Shadow Charge because of the slow animation... but I did a few quick tests just because you asked. Results seem to be the same as my original post, seems to be 10% more damage to both minimum and maximum range when comparing regular 20 bleed stack versus Fast Bleeding debuff, and the Fast Bleeding bonus damage takes priority over normal bleed. Neither the Fast Bleeding debuff, nor any bleed stacks are removed when using EX Backslash. You probably thought it removed 5 normal bleed stacks when playing because your full combo might have taken longer than 20 seconds, and 5 or around 5 of your normal bleed stacks expired by the time you used EX Backslash (I have similar experiences).

    For your other question, it's a bit hard for me to answer since I've never really had to think about "managing" my bleed stacks. When learning the class, I really just used whatever skills I knew caused bleeding and just looked at the stack count go to 20 and then used my big skills and the boss would die. Since I started playing there wasn't really anything difficult or tanky enough for me to need to really think about optimizing my skills that far. I did end up doing some bleed stack tracking while testing Shadow Charge though, just because I needed to know how to get 20 normal stacks quickly for damage testing. Since I play around bursting rather than DPS right now, probably the fastest way to hit 20 stacks without using EX Quick Jab is using (in any order) Quick Jab, Skyblade, Cat-a-pult (only the first initial hit), Shuriken (x3). Assuming you maxed Quick Jab and Cat-a-pult, doing this will get you exactly 20 stacks with minimal time between bleed stacks (takes about 2-3 seconds to set this up, reduced by more attack speed) to get your full damage bonus from the relevant skills. You can also start with Cyclone Blade (also note you can cancel the post-delay with Deathcloud) and follow up with Quick Jab/Skyblade/Cat-a-pult if you don't want to use Shuriken at all. The boss usually dies at this point for me with appropriate level gear, so I normally don't find myself needing to re-stack bleed. For lower gear and attack speed, some stacks might run out by the time you get to using EX Backslash, in which case I usually don't lose anymore than 10 stacks so I just use whatever skills are available to get it back to 20 before using EX Backslash (but most of the time I don't bother and just use it anyway since the boss is usually as good as dead by now).

    Basically, if you need quick and easy bleed stacks for low cost, your go-to skills are Quick Jab (6 at max skill level), Skyblade (each blade gives 3 stacks for a total of 6), and Cat-a-pult (5 at max, only need to do the first hit for full stacking benefit). Cyclone Blade is costly and takes almost 5 seconds for the full 8 stacks benefit, but it's hands-free. I rarely find myself using Shuriken nowadays, but it's there for filler/utility/poke and spamming as you please. I usually just use it to break objects from a distance.

  • NopiNopi Member ✭✭✭

    @Elysuu Nice info again. Perhaps it's what you say about me losing stacks after an EX backslash hits. Proven after testing on dummy. So it's funny that this happened so many times exactly AFTER an EX backslash. Anyway, I don't have much problem getting 20 stacks on enemies that deserve them, meaning, bosses (though Bella likes to run). On more stationary or stunned stuff, I throw a cyclone, then go quick jab, skyblade, backslash and one of the two bursts that benefit from the stacks.

    A cool 10 stack combo I use is a single shuriken>quick jab,>backslash and kill thrust. This one is good either for a super quick combo on a boss or to kill elites and lesser stuff.

  • - "Fast Bleeding" lasts 20 seconds and acts similar to a normal bleed stack count of 20. "Fast Bleeding" is consumed by Kill Thrust in the same way normal bleed stacks are. "Fast Bleeding" applies the same bonus effects that a normal bleed stack of 10-20 does (e.g. invincibility and stun on Kill Thrust, stun on Fireblast).

    - "Fast Bleeding" gives a slightly higher bleeding bonus damage on applicable skills (e.g. Kill Thrust, Fireblast, etc.) than a normal bleed stack of 20. The difference in bonus damage was difficult to test, but I'm estimating about 10-15% more damage when using Kill Thrust and Fireblast on "Fast Bleeding" compared to a normal bleed stack of 20. Damage tested with level 2 Shadow Charge (level 24 "Fast Bleeding").

    That range sounds like the additional stacks do in fact matter
    with killthrust scales by 10% additional dmg per stack so the dmg will be
    (killthrust base damage) * (1+(.1* stack count))
    so base dmg is (killthrust base damage) * (1+(.1* 0)) aka (killthrust base damage)
    20 stacks is (killthrust base damage) * (1+(.1* 20)) aka (killthrust base damage) * (3)
    24 stacks is (killthrust base damage) * (1+(.1* 24)) aka (killthrust base damage) * (3.4)
    so the dmg increase from the additional 4 stacks would be 3.4/3 which is 1.133

  • @knight6 Yes, that's what I thought too, but I didn't mention it because I had no proof that was the case so I wasn't sure. Reason being, I don't have a skill reset to use, or even want to bother resetting my tree just to test level 1 Shadow Charge. Also just a small correction to your post, the "24" is the level of the "Fast Bleeding" debuff, not stacks. However, what I wanted to test (but couldn't since no skill reset) is if level 22 Fast Bleeding (from level 1 Shadow Charge) gives the same additional damage as level 24 Fast Bleeding. If the additional damage is the same, then the level of Fast Bleeding does not represent a number of "bleed stacks" on the debuff, but rather just how strong the bleeding DoT is. If the damage is different, then the level of the debuff does represent bleed stack count. It'd be nice if someone else can test level 1 Shadow Charge for this. I do think you are correct though, that the level represents bleed stacks for the debuff, because ~13% increase is around what I calculated when I tested it the first time too. It would require a bit more extensive testing to compare level 22 to 24 Fast Bleeding though, since we would only expect a 3.2/3 = 1.066 (~6.7%) damage increase, which isn't too far off from 13%.

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