# [Guide] How to Soul Gems - Rubies

We all know that early on, raw attack is much better than anything else on gems. With high CR however, the gap gets closer and closer. But at which point do other gems become better, if at all?

Here's how you calc it. Take one ruby off, aka the ruby you're considering replacing with a different one.

Check your attack power, bonus damage and crit damage. Add 100 to the bonus damage, leave the other two stats untouched. Write down the 3 values.

Check the attack power, bonus damage and crit damage of the gems you intend using. If you don't own the gems yet, you can check their stats under "gemcraft" at the gem NPC. Write down the 3 values.

By the way, this is assuming your crit is capped, and your crit *is* capped. If it's not capped, go cap your crit. Slackers. Where were we? Oh yeah, gems, and stuff.

Divide the value you see on each gem for the respective value of your stat. aka

value of bonus damage ruby / (your bonus damage + 100 )

value of crit damage ruby / your crit damage

value of attack ruby / your attack

Check which number of the 3 is highest. That's the gem you want to use.

Exampuru, taking my WG's stats and VI gems.

Attack 39767 - Bonus damage 128,81% - Crit damage 350,61%

LV6 attack ruby 840 - LV6 bonus damage ruby 3,85% - LV6 crit damage ruby 6,65%

840/39767 = 0,021

3,85 / 228,81 (remember to add the 100) = 0,016

6,65/350 = 0,019

Conclusion: attack gems still better.

Further observations:

Attack gems scale better with leveling than crit/bonus damage gems. So check again if you're upgrading gems, for example from V to VI.

Attack will probably always be better at this stage of the game, only way of changing this would be the introduction of new BiS items that increase attack by a lot while leaving the other two stats relatively untouched.

Bonus damage on gems seems to always be a poor choice with the equipment we've got available right now.

Crit damage might have a cap of 400%, meaning stacking too much of it with gems could be a poor choice as well.

For more accurate results, check your stats outside town. Also, take into consideration frequent buffs such as vamp's Blood Drive, Kholdor Hat's passive and so on that might tip the scales. Your ultimate goal is to do more damage, not to have a bigger e-wang when sitting in town. Unless you're one of those people that put damage charms on their accessories for more CR, then do whatever the heck you want. You know who you are you freaks.

Hope this is of use.

## Comments

Math seems to be completely wrong. All three stats are related to one another. Dividing bonus stat to stat you have doesn't show anything. Raw attack power is good, because it's basis to be multiplied by bonus damage and crit damage. Bonus damage is good because it multiplies your attack power and all of this is multiplied by crit damage. Crit damage is good because it multiplies your total damage output. Crit damage seems to be better than bonus damage only for a reason that it give twice more percentage, while at 100% crit rate value of bonus damage and crit damage is close to equal.

Where, and why?

They are, which is why the relative increase (increase/actual stat) is relevant in determining which one is the biggest multiplier and therefore the best stat to use.

Okay, and this is relevant to my post being wrong how?

No, and no. Where did you get these values from?

This is a forum, and this section specifically is read mostly by new players seeking information. Putting guesses and "because I say so" as information is a disruptive behavior that hinders the progress of players that don't know any better and trust what they read. Please inform yourself before posting, and if I've been wrong please show me where and how so I can correct my mistakes. Thank you.

Are you tilted? It's you who putting guesses and "because I say so" here, wake up. You are missing an obvious thing and not even trying to understand what I'm saying.

If you are trying to understand a value of each stat, you should count it through a whole cr formula. Bonus damage increases your attack power, it doesn't increase itself. Crit damage increases attack power x bonus damage. If you want to get a true value, you should count each stat in relation to all three, counting it to itself doesn't show anything, I say it again.

Yes, yes and yes. Tier 7 crit damage ruby gives around 10% crit damage, I don't remember exactly, and tier 7 powerful ruby gives around 5% bonus damage. At the point of having 100% crit rate fell ruby seems most likely to be more valuable.

Thing is, at the point of having 30k raw attack power and higher, tier 7 powerful ruby would give you more actual damage than irresistible ruby. Attack power ruby give 1400 damage and powerful ruby gives 5% of 30000 = 1500. If you have 40k attack power it would give 2000 damage, 600 more than ruby. So bonus damage rubies are actually better than attack power ones, because I have 31500 raw attack power atm.

This is only true if your bonus damage is 0%. So no, your math is wrong.

You tell me I don't consider the fact that the 3 stats are related to each other, then in your own version of how things work you don't take any consideration for the fact that the three stats are related yourself.

I'm not tilted at all, I just want an actual reply with actual math that makes sense when put on practice, which you have yet to provide.

Okay, at this point I am tilted. I've provided you everything, you just don't want to understand. Do you have problems with math? It's not only true if your bonus damage is 0%, it's true whatever your bonus damage is. Bonus damage increases attack power. Any additional % will multiply your raw attack power value by this additional %.

If you want a cr formula, you can find it in ManiNeko's cr simulator thread. Tho if it's not obvious for you, I can roughly say that it is

attack power x (100+bonus damage) x crit damageat 100% crit rate.Thing is attack power rubys are only better in the beggining, at some point they become worst. So you can gather and use all, it would be much easier grinding three types of gems instead of 1 or 2.

Cute, youre both wrong... (:

@RPN7NPCCG6

No, ATK for you is better. Just use the cr calc from Ahhhh / NotRS3. Since you should have something like 100% additional damage already, your 5% gems are worse than 1400 atk ones... (5% gem is a 2,5% dmg increase with 100% inc, whereas 1400 atk with 31500 would be 4,44% increase)

Theres a certain point where inc dmg and/or crit damage takes over atk. However, we currently cant reach that point in our version.

@Schiz

According to several sources, there seems to be a hidden CRIT dmg limit of 400%! (And later 600% at 70 content)

So your calculations will fail there as well...

I just wait to craft my 900+ GEMIII boxes, probably even waiting for 70 content.

Correct

Also correct, but I haven't mentioned the supposed crit damage cap because the only source we have is other servers, and it's not guaranteed to be working exactly the same here. I believe it's there but I can't prove it.

Hitting 400% crit damage is only possible if you're already using crit dmg gems at the moment. That, or with Kholdor hat passive / critdmg passives or self buffs (psion, vamp, etc). So it's really hard to test for the existance of a damage cap and be accurate about it. Visually, your crit damage can go above 400%.

I have to say that Schiz math is pretty weird, he use the values separete but than he uses each other to compare.

For someone that went for Bonus dmg and did the most simple math to decide to between Atk or bonus, don't even have to explain the math I did, lol, and never thought about it again until last week. I know that Attack gems are better now. I'm almost full endgame gear with only boots left to enhance till max, either way, I saw I wouldn't be able to increase my CR too much after. So I went for gems again and decided to put more variables on my math this time.

Bonus dmg it is not a bad stat, all depends on the amount, but for now, for bonus dmg to be the best, I think we would need to have like 80K attack damage, which isn't possible right now.

I dunno if my math is right, but let me put it here.

A = Attack damage

B = Bonus dmg (I think elemental, bonus and type (pierce,crush) is a sum, right?) B = e + b + t

Y = Any modifier on the Attack ( Skill dmg and critical dmg)

Think Y would be the skill modifier % times critical dmg, So when you cast the skill you do A times Skill dmg times Crit dmg

So, for something like tier 6 gem of attack and bonus dmg, the math to see if the bonus dmg gem is higher would be.

((A + 840)Y)B < (AY)(B + 0.0385)

AYB + 840YB < AYB + AY0.0385

840B < A0.0385

Simplify, it is

840 times your bonus dmg (elem + bonus) < your attack times 0.0385

840 is the Attack gem VI

0,0385 is the bonus dmg gem VI that gives 3.85 bonus dmg.

I'm really sceptical about CR, at the start, I was going for Critical gems, lol. and my Critical gems did give me more CR than the others Red gems, that shouldn't be right.

I also did a pratical test with a bonus and an attack gem VI.

With bonus, my skill that I dunno the name, the thing the Vamp make thorns come from the ground, did 215K with Bonus dmg gem, and with Attack, it did 230K dmg

Crit damage is effectively capped at 400%, tested by people. Attack damage is the best gem at the current time, tested/proven with empirical data by numerous "top" players. The "Cr spreadsheet" isn't just for CR, it is used to measure how much "effective" damage you gain by increasing certain stats by a certain amount.

Possible if your critical was low and your crit damage was high. Remember, even with no crit damage rolls your critdmg starts at 150%. So pumping critical early on makes that value more and more relevant.

How I came up with the whole "divide attack from gem with your own attack" thing

Let's take a very simple formula that doesnt involve critical or attack speed since they dont really matter to us. There's three factors: Attack, (Bonus damage/100 +1) and crit damage/100.

We call these three values -conveniently- A, B and C. They're tied together by products. So we're looking at

A * B * C

Now when you add attack, bonus damage or crit damage from a soul gem (let's call those a, b and c) on a slot, you get 3 different outcomes (since you can only put one soulgem in one slot)

(A+a) * B * C

A * (B+b) * C

A * B * (C+c)

You want to know which one is bigger, to know which soul gem gives you the most damage. Stuff like A+a can be rewritten as A * (1 + a/A), same for B+b and C+c. So the 3 products will look like this

A * (1+ a/A) * B * C

A * B * (1+ b/B) * C

A * B * C * (1+ c/C)

All these 3 include A * B * C as factors, so they can be simplified. They become:

1+ a/A

1+ b/B

1+ c/C

You can subtract 1 from all three as well, which leaves us with:

a/A

b/B

c/C

aka:

Attack from gem / your attack

Bonus damage from gem / (your bonus damage + 100)

Crit damage from gem / your crit damage

Question is still the same, which of the three is bigger. Answer is what gem you want to use.

And yes, for now, unless your build is all weird, attack

ismost likely what you want to use.Nvm

No, you are both wrong.

Seriously, am I talking with 13 years old kids that cant into simple math and calculations? Or you just don't have enough respect to read posts of other people? I'm tilting like hell now.

5% gem is 5% damage increase. It's even 5.5% gem in fact. It's literally 5.5% and it increases your attack power, how it can increase itself, how does it matter if I have 100 or 200% bonus dmg if it doesnt increase bonus dmg itself it increases your total attack power multiplying your initial raw attack power. PLEASE, GUYS, STOP IT.

5.5% > 4.4% btw, that's what I'm trying to tell you here. There's literally no point in summing up bonus damage or dividing it on itself because it exists only in relation to initial attack power, all you have to do is multiply them, and changing places of multipliers doesn't change the result. Would it be 105% bonus damage or 205% bonus damage, these 5% still give you more than 1400 attack power in total. These 5% give you the same amount of total attack power, it doesn't depend on how much bd you have, it depends only on how much raw ap you have. And if you have more than 30k it would always give you more than 1400 ap. Can you understand it now, pls?

And that guy didn't even read my post where I'm putting it out on my fingers gently for him, and hastes to write CORRECT when there is another blind one appears in this thread. No, mate, he's INCORRECT.

Can you not down vote please when I'm saying the factual truth that can be tested with math, in game, from devs, any way one likes.

Math discussions always fire people up for some reason. From what it seems it seems people are getting confused about what is being compared. Bonus dmg is worth the equivalent % of attack power so 5% bonus dmg on 30k worth 1500 attack. However it 5% bonus dmg does not increase your damage by 5%. Without criticals involved if you have (attack power)

(100+(current bonus dmg)+(new bonus dmg)) then if you already have bonus dmg you would have to factor that into see how much more % dmg you will be doing. So if you have no bonus dmg and add 100% it will double your actual dmg but if you have 100 bonus damage already and add 100 your actual damage will only increase by 50%.(100+(current bonus dmg)+(new bonus dmg))%using the formula (attack power)

we can use attack at 100 for an example starting with no bonus dmg and comparing it to already having 100 bonus dmg

so

base: (100)

(100+0+0)%=100(100+0+100)%=200adding 100% bonus (100)

compared to already having 100 bonus dmg

base: (100)

(100+100+0)%=200(100+100+100)%=300adding 100% bonus (100)

So in the first example you go from 100 from 200 which is double and in the second from 200 to 300 which is 50% more.

I think this is the issue where people are not clear on how the current bonus dmg impacts how much of an effect additional bonus dmg will have on the actual damage.

The issue with what @RPN7NPCCG6 said is that if he will compare the bonus dmg to the attack power he would have to compare it in a way more along the lines of multiplying it out for a valid comparison. So if you have 30k and have 100% bonus dmg it would be the equivalent of having 60k attack power so you would need 3k attack to increase your damage by 5% which is the equivalent of 10% bonus damage and not 5%.

What I see here is a bunch of guys using mathematical formulas, and one guy saying "nuh-uh that isn't right, it is not right! you are dumb for not believing me", followed by no data and no constructive information. Main thing here is attack power, critical damage and bonus damage all have numerous sources outside of just gems. This needs to be taken into account. Making it simple: increasing a number, say.... 200, then adding 10 on top of it. The number increased by 10, but the increase percentage wise is about 5, that is what gems do and ultimately how your total damage will be. The best gem is attack power. Using math that 66% of the forum will misinterpret and/or simply be unable to comprehend does not really do simple information justice.

Go use bonus damage gems then @RPN7NPCCG6 if you're so adamant about it.

It does. If you have an apple and buy 5 more, congrats, you just got six times your old amount of apples. If you have 100 or 200 apples and buy 5 more, throw 'em into the pile and good luck noticing any difference.

You might consider investing into something else like an extra apple peeler or an extra baking dish for your apple pie instead of buying more apples. Until you got so many dishes that hey, maybe it wouldn't hurt to buy apples again.

Tried to explain it like a 13 year old, hope it helps.

so i guess lvl 70 gear will render 1400 atk pwr gems useless incomparison to lvl 70 gear? anyone know what amount of attack power is reach on lvl 70? 70,000 attack power?

Don't really know yet, attack will increase but so will crit damage and bonus damage. If they scale up at the same rate as they do now, then attack will be still fine.

if gems value doesn't change, they will not even matter that much. I saw someone saying that ppl are like 7M-11M CR on 70 cap, in case everything scale same rate.

Oh nvm, I fcked up. I didnt count that ap gives like twice more ap in total with 100% bd an three times more with 200%. Was so excited thinking that I found out something new ;C

With that in mind AP rubies seem to be better at any point, % on BD is just too low, it needs to be like twice or at least 1.5x higher to compete.

This discussion is pointless

Just go in game...

1. Remove 1 gem

2. Check cr

3. Put lvl 4 gem of bonus dmg

4. Check cr and do other 2 etc

5. Now u know...

Of course lvl 7 gem will be a tiny bit different...but the difference in cr at 4 will only be more different on 7...so its still same outcome..

Nah, you can overcap Critical and still get more CR, Atk speed is a thing that increase CR, but doesn't mean you are doing more dmg, shit critical gem still give a good CR boost.

You can't trust CR

But Atk speedy it is pretty good, I had a 15 nura ring on my Vault, since I changed for deathguard, and I evo and put it on my cat, I really saw the difference, even if it was a few % attack speed.

Ap rubies are best by far. Crit damage only becomes equal at the point of having something like 60k raw ap and 200% bd, and if you are not capped in cd at this point. Bd rubies are worst at any point, % is just too low.

De fuck, so if I have 1M attack power, would that 1400 gem be better than the 5.5 Bonus dmg? That's what you are saying?

Since this discussion got so heated up I took the liberty to make a overview of all gem combinations

Background info:

Attack Power Base = 32679

Bonus Damage Base = 99.28

Crit Damamage Base = 342.01

Critical Chance = 100%

AP6-CD0-BD0 means (all gemVII):

6 Attack power gems, 0 Crit damage gems and 0 Bonus Damage gems

Ps. I didn't take the 400% crit damage cap in my formula's (so the total skill damage with 6 gems is in real lower)

If you guys want I can give the spreadsheet, so that you guys can play with the values~

.

So at 32k ap ...ap stones are bis..

yeah and it stays till 40k AP (if the rest stays the same). then it slowly switch to the others. At 50k its 2/2/2

Pretty neat information. I was going to aim for 4ap-1cd-1bd on lego my gems, but I might go for 2-2-2 if that is better in the long term.

Her calcs were with a bonus damage of 98% and she mentioned not factoring in critical damage cap.

Endgame gear, you hit around 140% bonus damage in town and 40-42k attack depending on rolls and how many purple badges / which kind of arena wings you got.

Considering crit damage cap and those values of bonus damage, 6 slots of attack power is currently the best option long term, if by long term you mean reaching every possible BiS charm and gear and enchant and appraisal.

If by long term you mean new content, 70 cap or any of that, we have zero information on how our version of kritika will handle all that, so you currently cannot plan that further ahead.

Long term full crit (lol atm) could be best, since its way harder to reach 3000 crit cap with 70 content...

AP gem becomes useless with 60+ k atk on later gear, where like 40k comes from you weapon...

@RPN7NPCCG6

lol, took you long to finally get it...