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Basically this whole thread summed up: Attack power gems have diminished returns. At high attack power (60k) it would be better to use Crit Dmg or Bonus Dmg gems. But right now cap for Crit Dmg is at 400% and at this point of the game it is hard to reach the point where Crit dmg/ bonus dmg gems > Attackpower gems. So anything below 60k atk power use attack power. thanks for reading

Tomorrow I can probably show a graph with increased AP. And like Schiz mentioned I didn't calculated the crit damage cap in it. From my point of view on our current version 65 cap. It's useless to go for crit damage. At 40k is a turning point, 41k has an optimum at 5/1. Where 1 is either crit damage or Bonus damage (again crit damage is useless for the current cap). But for proper values I need to Max out all other stat first. Double wings etc.

When new gear comes out and you're eventually able to hit such number, your bonus dmg and crit dmg will probably have been increased a lot too. But we don't know how much because we don't know what kind of stuff we'll get and what stats it will have on. Once we do, then the calc on this thread's first post will still be valid and you can figure out what will be best, but for now it's impossible to plan ahead.

You still don't get it, I'm talking if it was possible to increase your attack right now, maybe with enhance +30, w/e, and everything stay the same, if the point when bonus start to get better than attack gems are around 80K Attack.

bonus damage you can get now with best in slot everything including the new accessory charms that nobody has is around 176%, aka 2,76 multiplier. Without the op charms, it's around 140-150% (150 if you got the mid tier accessory charms that give 3% bonus damage each).

the point where attack gems equal bonus damage gems is

X = 1400*2,76/0,055

(0,055 is the 5,5% bonus damage from gem. 1400 is the attack from gem. X is the attack value we want to find).

X= 3864/0,055 = 70524,545

And this is including the OP charms that nobody has. With less bonus damage from those, the attack value is close to 60k.

70k with OP charms, 60k without. Not 40k, 50k, 80k or whatever. I'm done doing this crap all over again, it's impossible to hit 80k or even 60k anyway, and I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing is just an extremely clever troll, lol.

I'll reply to actual questions from now on, you guys can have your math war between yourselves. Nobody cares about math and it's pretty apparent that the few in here who do need to go back to revise their mad middle school math skills before coming up with random values out of their derrieres.

@MPonder said:
Aren't you forgetting Elemental Dmg and Type (crush, piercing and slashing) bonus dmg?

That's not related to the discussion since we are talking about Ruby gems and not Sapphire/Topaz gems. They are a different multipliers, so they are not related to "bonus damage".

I'm with 386 Lightning bonus = 115.8%, piercing is just 36, but you can get easy too 60 = 18%, not focused that yet, which whould give 18% more bonus, and since he sad 176 bonus dmg that come from a lots of others sources,

That would give you 116 + 18 + 176 = 310 bonus dmg.

Also I mean if he didn't forget those type of bonus dmg on his last math. It really should be included there.

@MPonder said:
The different type of increase dmg can't be a multiplier between each other, that would give a huge increase.

It is definitely a sum between Element, type and bonus gem.

No it's a multiplier not a sum. Here is the formula for skill damage:
.
.
.

.
.
.

About elemental btw. Formula implying that you have elemental weapon damage? Does elemental weapon damage means that you deal elemental bonus damage with every attack? Or it works only when elemental triggers with certain probability and when you can see visual effects of it? I just don't quite understand elemental working mechanics. Since I'm cat main, I don't have any elemental skills, and all my elemental comes only of weapon charm. And it doesn't seem to trigger everytime.

Because of the min damage. Accuracy increases the min damage based on the max. 0 accuracy means min damage is 60% of max damage. Your damage is somewhere between your min and max. And no. Overall you get more damage from the damage type gems since the increase min and max damage equally like elemental gems (damage type gems work the as elemental = value x 0.3)

Yes this formula implies you have elemental conversion (from weapon or charm). So you will do an element attack with every hit you do. That's why it's a must to pick an element stack the value and use an conversion charm / elemental weapon damage. Since it easy increases 100% of your damage.

@MPonder said:
The different type of increase dmg can't be a multiplier between each other, that would give a huge increase.

It is definitely a sum between Element, type and bonus gem.

No it's a multiplier not a sum. Here is the formula for skill damage:
.
.
.

.
.
.

About elemental btw. Formula implying that you have elemental weapon damage? Does elemental weapon damage means that you deal elemental bonus damage with every attack? Or it works only when elemental triggers with certain probability and when you can see visual effects of it? I just don't quite understand elemental working mechanics. Since I'm cat main, I don't have any elemental skills, and all my elemental comes only of weapon charm. And it doesn't seem to trigger everytime.

i
The elemental accessory charm cause the procs you are talking about. It list the properties per charm. For fire for example you create a debuff that is a aoe on first attack and it has a 15 second cool down for having 30 fire the debuff can be level 1(30+ pts) /2 (60+ pts) /3 (90+ pts) depending on how much fire bonus u have. In addition on first attack and every 5 seconds u will generate 1 extra hit per charm so if u auto attack once u will hit 4x on the first hit. These attacks get a 20% chance of being a level 2 attack for 90 bonus and a 10% at level 3 at 120+ bonus.

I have 63249 Attack power, 193.75 bonus dmg inside the dungeon, boss dmg without elite 48,83, 532 of lightning, 18,9% of piercing bonus dmg. My bloody hell is 70938% Total attack and its awaking is 40%, my crit dmg together with boss crit dmg is more than 400%.

And I hit 600M +- on bella without anybuff (jump, lightning debuff, artifact active, etc) or ring proc. I'm getting always 3.390.591.979, 5x more than it should be.

63249 AP
193.75+48.83.. 242.58 BD (multiplier = 2.4258
532 lightning = 159.6 increase (multiplier 1.596)
18.9 skill type ( multiplier 1.189 )
70938 *1.4 99313.2 = 993.132 // you should check what's on your skill window, awakenings are including in the skill damage!!! I will use 709.38 for now, since it gives the value it should, if I'm wrong please tell me~
400% crit damage (multiplier 3.00)

63249 x 2.4258 x 1.596 x 1.189 x 709.38 x 3.00 = 619,617,380 (roughly 620M, you also have to include accuracy to know a min and a max value) tada

Boss bonus damage is actually bonus damage but only for Bosses (same for elites) it's mob specific. And hmm I think the only formula to normalize it would be then

(63249 x 3.4258 x 2.596 x 1.189 x 709.38 x 4.00) /3.00 to come to your value o.o (632,586.454). But I wonder where that 3 comes from then o.o
I will do some testing to find a proper formula, till now I used the ones I use in my previous post and it works, but yeah if you are below BD, does it mean you do negatively damage? hmm

0 bonus dmg or lightning before would give 0 dmg without a +1.

Also there is monster Def. But since my bloody hell is almost same dmg when doing soul gems dailies., I think the enemies in this game don't have too much defense, just HP.

Did a few tests with my Db, the skills dmg have like a 2-4 millions more, maybe some source that I'm not getting it.

So I really think the formula must be like this, with a few changes, and bonus dmg are not multipliers, they add to each other, crit dmg and bonus dmg are separate from each other and don't interect.

## Comments

Basically this whole thread summed up: Attack power gems have diminished returns. At high attack power (60k) it would be better to use Crit Dmg or Bonus Dmg gems. But right now cap for Crit Dmg is at 400% and at this point of the game it is hard to reach the point where Crit dmg/ bonus dmg gems > Attackpower gems. So anything below 60k atk power use attack power. thanks for reading

Tomorrow I can probably show a graph with increased AP. And like Schiz mentioned I didn't calculated the crit damage cap in it. From my point of view on our current version 65 cap. It's useless to go for crit damage. At 40k is a turning point, 41k has an optimum at 5/1. Where 1 is either crit damage or Bonus damage (again crit damage is useless for the current cap). But for proper values I need to Max out all other stat first. Double wings etc.

Are you guys sure that Attack gems VII don't start to become less efficient than bonus dmg when attack is more than 80K?

You can't have 80k attack right now.

When new gear comes out and you're eventually able to hit such number, your bonus dmg and crit dmg will probably have been increased a lot too. But we don't know how much because we don't know what kind of stuff we'll get and what stats it will have on. Once we do, then the calc on this thread's first post will still be valid and you can figure out what will be best, but for now it's impossible to plan ahead.

Not what you can or not right now, but what is necessary.

The same way we'll get a ton of attack in the future compared to now, we'll also get a ton of crit and bonus damage.

Problem is, "a ton" isn't very accurate. Can't tell what will be better until you know which ton is bigger.

You still don't get it, I'm talking if it was possible to increase your attack right now, maybe with enhance +30, w/e, and everything stay the same, if the point when bonus start to get better than attack gems are around 80K Attack.

People are saying 40K, 50K.

bonus damage you can get now with best in slot everything including the new accessory charms that nobody has is around 176%, aka 2,76 multiplier. Without the op charms, it's around 140-150% (150 if you got the mid tier accessory charms that give 3% bonus damage each).

the point where attack gems equal bonus damage gems is

X = 1400*2,76/0,055

(0,055 is the 5,5% bonus damage from gem. 1400 is the attack from gem. X is the attack value we want to find).

X= 3864/0,055 = 70524,545

And this is

includingthe OP charms that nobody has. With less bonus damage from those, the attack value is close to 60k.70k with OP charms, 60k without. Not 40k, 50k, 80k or whatever. I'm done doing this crap all over again, it's impossible to hit 80k or even 60k anyway, and I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing is just an extremely clever troll, lol.

I'll reply to actual questions from now on, you guys can have your math war between yourselves. Nobody cares about math and it's pretty apparent that the few in here who do need to go back to revise their mad middle school math skills before coming up with random values out of their derrieres.

Aren't you forgetting Elemental Dmg and Type (crush, piercing and slashing) bonus dmg?

That's not related to the discussion since we are talking about Ruby gems and not Sapphire/Topaz gems. They are a different multipliers, so they are not related to "bonus damage".

What?! How they are not related to bonus dmg?

I'm with 386 Lightning bonus = 115.8%, piercing is just 36, but you can get easy too 60 = 18%, not focused that yet, which whould give 18% more bonus, and since he sad 176 bonus dmg that come from a lots of others sources,

That would give you 116 + 18 + 176 = 310 bonus dmg.

Also I mean if he didn't forget those type of bonus dmg on his last math. It really should be included there.

Now that I think about it, I should have thrown crit evasion somewhere in the calcs just because it's there.

The result is that putting MP on your gem slots is the best option.

Serious reply: multipliers multiply each other, they don't add. That's called a sum.

The different type of increase dmg can't be a multiplier between each other, that would give a huge increase.

It is definitely a sum between Element, type and bonus gem.

Throwing "definitely" in a sentence without actual proof to back it up doesn't automatically make it true.

Which now that I think about it, is what's been going on in the last two pages here.

No it's a multiplier not a sum. Here is the formula for skill damage:

.

.

.

.

.

.

About elemental btw. Formula implying that you have elemental weapon damage? Does elemental weapon damage means that you deal elemental bonus damage with every attack? Or it works only when elemental triggers with certain probability and when you can see visual effects of it? I just don't quite understand elemental working mechanics. Since I'm cat main, I don't have any elemental skills, and all my elemental comes only of weapon charm. And it doesn't seem to trigger everytime.

Wow, such a huge formula. Is this true.

Why accuracy is there?

Now, another question, after seen such a hugh formule, wouldn't be better to have Accuracy gems instead of type, lol.

Because of the min damage. Accuracy increases the min damage based on the max. 0 accuracy means min damage is 60% of max damage. Your damage is somewhere between your min and max. And no. Overall you get more damage from the damage type gems since the increase min and max damage equally like elemental gems (damage type gems work the as elemental = value x 0.3)

Yes this formula implies you have elemental conversion (from weapon or charm). So you will do an element attack with every hit you do. That's why it's a must to pick an element stack the value and use an conversion charm / elemental weapon damage. Since it easy increases 100% of your damage.

I misread the formula, but seems to be missing one ')'

I always love these "Your math is wrong," "No, YOUR math is wrong" arguments. And btw, how dare you disagree with Schiz?!?

i

The elemental accessory charm cause the procs you are talking about. It list the properties per charm. For fire for example you create a debuff that is a aoe on first attack and it has a 15 second cool down for having 30 fire the debuff can be level 1(30+ pts) /2 (60+ pts) /3 (90+ pts) depending on how much fire bonus u have. In addition on first attack and every 5 seconds u will generate 1 extra hit per charm so if u auto attack once u will hit 4x on the first hit. These attacks get a 20% chance of being a level 2 attack for 90 bonus and a 10% at level 3 at 120+ bonus.

You know, I never got this formula to work.

I have 63249 Attack power, 193.75 bonus dmg inside the dungeon, boss dmg without elite 48,83, 532 of lightning, 18,9% of piercing bonus dmg. My bloody hell is 70938% Total attack and its awaking is 40%, my crit dmg together with boss crit dmg is more than 400%.

And I hit 600M +- on bella without anybuff (jump, lightning debuff, artifact active, etc) or ring proc. I'm getting always 3.390.591.979, 5x more than it should be.

@MPonder

63249 AP

193.75+48.83.. 242.58 BD (multiplier = 2.4258

532 lightning = 159.6 increase (multiplier 1.596)

18.9 skill type ( multiplier 1.189 )

70938 *1.4 99313.2 = 993.132 // you should check what's on your skill window, awakenings are including in the skill damage!!! I will use 709.38 for now, since it gives the value it should, if I'm wrong please tell me~

400% crit damage (multiplier 3.00)

63249 x 2.4258 x 1.596 x 1.189 x 709.38 x 3.00 = 619,617,380 (roughly 620M, you also have to include accuracy to know a min and a max value) tada

what?! Boss dmg is added to bonus dmg?

Why multiplier of crit dmg is 3 and not 4.

Edit: Also, you are not adding 1 to bonus dmg, if I had 40% bonus dmg, my dmg would be lower since it would just multiply by 0.4 and not 1.4

Edit 2: It has awakening

Ok, with empty kperks, this is it.

I also took care of not killing here when she had anytype of debuff (lightning or ring proc) and I had no buffs.

Boss bonus damage is actually bonus damage but only for Bosses (same for elites) it's mob specific. And hmm I think the only formula to normalize it would be then

(63249 x 3.4258 x 2.596 x 1.189 x 709.38 x 4.00) /3.00 to come to your value o.o (632,586.454). But I wonder where that 3 comes from then o.o

I will do some testing to find a proper formula, till now I used the ones I use in my previous post and it works, but yeah if you are below BD, does it mean you do negatively damage? hmm

0 bonus dmg or lightning before would give 0 dmg without a +1.

Also there is monster Def. But since my bloody hell is almost same dmg when doing soul gems dailies., I think the enemies in this game don't have too much defense, just HP.

Well, I put some effort and I think the formula might be like this.

= ( (Atk Power * (Crit Dmg - 1) ) + ( Atk Power*(1+ Bonus dmg + Monster Type bonus + Elem bonus) * (1 + Type bonus ) ) )

* (1 + Awakening ) * (1 + Imprint bonus skill dmg) * (Tot atk skill)

Probably wrong, but I dunno, I can't make your formula bring a number even close.

Did a few tests with my Db, the skills dmg have like a 2-4 millions more, maybe some source that I'm not getting it.

So I really think the formula must be like this, with a few changes, and bonus dmg are not multipliers, they add to each other, crit dmg and bonus dmg are separate from each other and don't interect.

You guys can test yourself.