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rip arena

124

Comments

  • @TheFaker said:
    Someone whaling while you grind all day could mean they work a lot harder than you irl and are paid for it. Never forget that.

    I only play about 3 hours a day and I've been done with SH gear since I can buy them with kred. I don't think that means I'm lazy.

    I mean dropping 1k - 3k is nothing for most middle-upper to wealthy class people. Its like me dropping 50k for a car or 5k for a custom weapon engraving.

  • @RyceCream said:
    None of these players are asking for praise LOL. You guys make it seem like they're asking to be recognized by using the greenleaf. Most of us have cleared it with real gear at some point.

    This thread is full of babies whining that would never achieve top 10-50 anyways in a fair competition. Try improving your own gameplay before bashing on others because you can't accept that someone is better than you.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the use of the weapon. Allm will eventually void the effect and most likely overlooked it because our version is so different. It's just a matter of when.

    i dont know about you but ive seen people bragging about their placement ingame while using the greenleaf. they very much want recognition for their progress. how about instead of being such a bad player, you actually practice hard and earn the 120 reward LIKE THE REST OF US. you are trying to defend the weapon. your saying those using the weapon are more skilled then those who dont. your saying anyone who doesnt like the fact others use the weapon are just shit because they cant get that much clearing without it. WELL NEITHER CAN THE PEOPLE THAT USE THE WEAPON SUNSHINE. caps for important parts.

  • @RyceCream said:
    None of these players are asking for praise LOL. You guys make it seem like they're asking to be recognized by using the greenleaf.

    tbh i made this thread to point out a mechanic which shouldn't exist in any game (% based damage with no cap or limitation) and its impact on trivializing the only piece of content which was well received in the last patch.

    idk what the fuck the thread turned into after that.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Abaddonoffire said:

    @RyceCream said:
    None of these players are asking for praise LOL. You guys make it seem like they're asking to be recognized by using the greenleaf. Most of us have cleared it with real gear at some point.

    This thread is full of babies whining that would never achieve top 10-50 anyways in a fair competition. Try improving your own gameplay before bashing on others because you can't accept that someone is better than you.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the use of the weapon. Allm will eventually void the effect and most likely overlooked it because our version is so different. It's just a matter of when.

    i dont know about you but ive seen people bragging about their placement ingame while using the greenleaf. they very much want recognition for their progress. how about instead of being such a bad player, you actually practice hard and earn the 120 reward LIKE THE REST OF US. you are trying to defend the weapon. your saying those using the weapon are more skilled then those who dont. your saying anyone who doesnt like the fact others use the weapon are just shit because they cant get that much clearing without it. WELL NEITHER CAN THE PEOPLE THAT USE THE WEAPON SUNSHINE. caps for important parts.

    And who are these people bragging about their placements? Not any of the previous top 10 arena scorers in NA or EU. Don't generalize the playerbase just because you saw 1 scrub talking about their last place 120 clear.

    I literally just said I'm not defending the weapon. What's so hard to understand?

  • Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the use of the weapon. Allm will eventually void the effect and most likely overlooked it because our version is so different. It's just a matter of when.

    Actually you are so defensive, calling ppl babies cause they are reporting an exploit, also the irony of talking about a fair competiton, lol.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @noctred said:

    @RyceCream said:
    None of these players are asking for praise LOL. You guys make it seem like they're asking to be recognized by using the greenleaf.

    tbh i made this thread to point out a mechanic which shouldn't exist in any game (% based damage with no cap or limitation) and its impact on trivializing the only piece of content which was well received in the last patch.

    idk what the fuck the thread turned into after that.

    I respect that you made the thread pointing it out. It's these other scrublords complaining that they get kicked out of top 100 because they cant clear floor 99. This doesn't affect them when they can't even reach floor 116.
    It gets on my nerves that people are just throwing around accusations, especially when they haven't even spoken to any of these players.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @ecchiless said:

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the use of the weapon. Allm will eventually void the effect and most likely overlooked it because our version is so different. It's just a matter of when.

    Actually you are so defensive, calling ppl babies cause they are reporting an exploit, also the irony of talking about a fair competiton, lol.

    I'm not calling them babies for reporting an exploit, I'm calling them out because they decided to devolve this thread into shaming people.

  • @NMP4YMLDHH said:

    Reposting this for pure shaming purposes, gaze upon those who succumbed to the exploit.

    Missed a couple pages, but glad you made such a constructive post. You realize no one is bragging about using the weapon. It is in the game and has been around for years in other servers. Probably salty you dont have the kred to buy.

  • @RyceCream said:
    Missed a couple pages, but glad you made such a constructive post. You realize no one is bragging about using the weapon. It is in the game and has been around for years in other servers. Probably salty you dont have the kred to buy.

    "Salty"? Oh, the irony.

    So because these people "aren't bragging" about using exploits that makes it okay?

  • ExpedExped Member

    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

  • exploiters and cheaters will never complain, the only thing they can complain is they don't want others to abuse game bug only they can do it lul

  • NMP4YMLDHHNMP4YMLDHH Member
    edited July 2017

    @Exped said:
    I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Oh yes, because laughing at and shaming cheaters who were fully aware they were using an exploit is considered "complaining" now. That makes sense.

    I point fingers at these people because that's what they deserve. If they didn't want to be shamed perhaps they shouldn't have used an exploit in the first place. They knew they were using exploits so they have no right to play the victim now. Period.

    By the way, before you use my comment as "proof" that I'm one of those "losers" who's "complaining" because he's jelous, I'll inform you that I'm currently Rank 60-ish and could easily go higher if I cared enough, but I don't. Being in the top 100 is good enough for me.

  • NatoriousNatorious Member, Pre-CBT Tester ✭✭✭

    @Gration said:

    @Natorious said:

    @Elysuu said:

    @Gration said:

    @Elysuu said:

    @Abaddonoffire said:

    @Elysuu said:

    @Abaddonoffire said:

    @Gration said:

    @Elysuu said:

    @3YX5LGY3TC said:

    @Spirea said:
    Vineway weapons cost more than tier 7 starhenge weapons now. Hilarious.

    no, u can only put them up to 2k cred in AH... :/
    if you could theyd be more than 5k worth though

    Someone actually bothered to +13 one.

    Enmasse please. Send halp.

    this just makes me laugh really hard cause he either just lost a TONNN of money or just gave someone a reason to make him the richest man in the server. Either way this exploit needs to go.

    other people have sold them at that price once enhanced. so hes rich. people will pay out the ass to exploit.

    In hindsight, I don't see how it's even worth it to pay that much just for the easy first-clear rewards. The ranking rewards are pretty much nothing more than bragging rights now compared to the old rewards, and after the first clear it's just badges. We're eventually going to have the gear to get those rewards relatively easier and legitimately anyways. Once we get the gem upgrading system as well, those free top tier gems won't seem as big of a deal too. The legendary charms are kind of a big deal, but even for those someone can just farm up the gold eventually to buy them from someone else. If anything, the people abusing the exploit now are just wasting either their time, effort, money, or all of the above.

    its incredibly annoying for someone to grind their ass off to get top 100 or top 10 only to have some scrub come in and use this shitty weapon to steal their spot when the person stealing clearly doesnt deserve it. atm its not as bad cuz they dont get badges just wings but still.

    That's understandable. As long as they fix this as soon as possible (it better be next week), overall it actually shouldn't hurt the game too much especially in the long-run since the arena resets weekly anyways. The people who needed the exploit to reach the top won't be able to get there again if this gets taken care of. Now the problem is the short-term damages... it's definitely far too late. At this point it would probably be difficult to even do a simple rollback because who knows how the exploiters would have already spent or used the rewards and such. If more people were more understanding to the fact that this won't have a huge impact in the long-run of the game and willing to be more patient then things should be okay... but we've already seen how people have reacted to this.

    This and people complaining that their class is suddenly shit because Arena is hard (Like it's supposed to be) seem to be really big problems. EME and AllM need to fix Arena and completely ignore people begging for balance changes cause they can't easily abuse their own class' strengths anymore. i swear if anyone gets an additional I-Frame or a buff in general from a bunch of scrubs complaining i'm just done, cause now all i need to do is complain that something's unfair from my POV to make my class better than others

    I think that problem might have to do with all the missing content we don't have and they skipped. I'm not sure about the content order myself and someone (@Natorious) could probably tell us, but I'm guessing that this new arena tower system was supposed to be after we got level 70 content or at least imprints and maybe other balance changes.

    This arena is meant to be for the level 70 cap with imprints 2nd awakenings and mastery levels, gear evolution and much more included. It doesnt suit the current gear and content as we have right now Starhenge gear is again a starting point for the real endgame content which will be located in Xanadu.

    and yet an unchecked level 60 item is more powerful than anything you just listed. people actually think it's not a problem just because it's in the game lol

    This item causes issues in this server. While issue with this weapon was fixed a long time ago on the Old arena People were using it the same way and they got banned for it. We cant do anything about it its EMEs turn here

  • @NMP4YMLDHH said:
    "Salty"? Oh, the irony.

    So because these people "aren't bragging" about using exploits that makes it okay?

    Do you know the definition of irony?

    Wrong "@". I never said it was okay. It isn't an exploit. They have had years to fix it and haven't. I think it should just be removed from the game. This weapon is just really good in this certain scenario, for starhenge it would be worthless. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

  • BottyBotty Member

    @Abaddonoffire said:

    @S0ulCal1ber said:

    @Abaddonoffire said:

    @NMP4YMLDHH said:

    Reposting this for pure shaming purposes, gaze upon those who succumbed to the exploit.

    i love how everyone who worked hard to reach their rank now is going to lose it to scumbags. gg hope they fix it soon

    Im struggled to reach level 74 as it is. was wondering how people, who had only a little more CR than me were getting really high up the ladder with almost no effort.. this little exploit also must be why not many have complained about the entry fee as there not burning through gold like some of us who have to keep retrying.

    finished 104 personally. passed a lot of people with a higher cr than me in doing so (123k atm) garuntee i lose my top 100 spot. thanks to this i dont even feel like trying to get higher.

    yep i beat 104 at a CR of 112k, put the charm on my helm and jumped up to 134k and went all the way to 107...then the exploit surfaced and I was ready to punch my screen cause I wasted so much time and gold to get to 107. Now I do not even try anymore, i am also prepared to lose my top 100 rank :(

  • BottyBotty Member

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    yo, i been complaining since this shit came out and i am currently top 100, what are you trying to say huh?

  • NMP4YMLDHHNMP4YMLDHH Member
    edited July 2017

    @NMP4YMLDHH said:
    It isn't an exploit.

    xD

  • MaljasMaljas Member
    edited July 2017

    @RyceCream said:

    @noctred said:

    @RyceCream said:
    None of these players are asking for praise LOL. You guys make it seem like they're asking to be recognized by using the greenleaf.

    tbh i made this thread to point out a mechanic which shouldn't exist in any game (% based damage with no cap or limitation) and its impact on trivializing the only piece of content which was well received in the last patch.

    idk what the fuck the thread turned into after that.

    I respect that you made the thread pointing it out. It's these other scrublords complaining that they get kicked out of top 100 because they cant clear floor 99. This doesn't affect them when they can't even reach floor 116.
    It gets on my nerves that people are just throwing around accusations, especially when they haven't even spoken to any of these players.

    @NMP4YMLDHH said:
    "Salty"? Oh, the irony.

    So because these people "aren't bragging" about using exploits that makes it okay?

    Do you know the definition of irony?

    Wrong "@". I never said it was okay. It isn't an exploit. They have had years to fix it and haven't. I think it should just be removed from the game. This weapon is just really good in this certain scenario, for starhenge it would be worthless. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    Stop this foolishness. It is clearly an exploit. Why on earth are you trying to say otherwise? Look up the definition.

    It is the players who are fully aware of this oversight that is currently responsible for the blunder that is the arena now.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Silverie said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Not true, top 10 always changes as times comes by, and it is not true that the people within the rank aren't complaining, more like the people that USED the exploit are not complaining because it would harm them to do so.

    Top 10s will always stay at or around top 10 if they still actively play. Top 3 in their respective class as well. The weapon harms the top 10 more than others and we almost all collectively agreed that it needs to be fixed. It just so happens that 90 people have a much bigger voice than those 10.

    The current top ranking has tons of people that were nowhere to be seen in the previous arena. The group everyone is pointing at are these players, don't lump the previous arena top 10s with them.

  • BottyBotty Member

    @RyceCream said:

    @Silverie said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Not true, top 10 always changes as times comes by, and it is not true that the people within the rank aren't complaining, more like the people that USED the exploit are not complaining because it would harm them to do so.

    Top 10s will always stay at or around top 10 if they still actively play. Top 3 in their respective class as well. The weapon harms the top 10 more than others and we almost all collectively agreed that it needs to be fixed. It just so happens that 90 people have a much bigger voice than those 10.

    The current top ranking has tons of people that were nowhere to be seen in the previous arena. The group everyone is pointing at are these players, don't lump the previous arena top 10s with them.

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

  • 9R4ECR7H3R9R4ECR7H3R Member
    edited July 2017

    @Botty said:

    @RyceCream said:

    @Silverie said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Not true, top 10 always changes as times comes by, and it is not true that the people within the rank aren't complaining, more like the people that USED the exploit are not complaining because it would harm them to do so.

    Top 10s will always stay at or around top 10 if they still actively play. Top 3 in their respective class as well. The weapon harms the top 10 more than others and we almost all collectively agreed that it needs to be fixed. It just so happens that 90 people have a much bigger voice than those 10.

    The current top ranking has tons of people that were nowhere to be seen in the previous arena. The group everyone is pointing at are these players, don't lump the previous arena top 10s with them.

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

    Lots good player wasn't in previous arena cuz the old arena was stupid, this game is getting toxic lol, I was no where near top 100 at old arena cuz I was waiting on update before I carft more SH equipment, I'm sure there is more ppl like me doing the same way, and old arena require 0 skill, all u need is a SSD and faceroll

  • NMP4YMLDHHNMP4YMLDHH Member
    edited July 2017

    @Botty said:

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

    What are you talking about? There's no need for speculation, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the people who are at the top, who struggled to beat Floor 116 with 250k CR, who suddenly beat all 120 Floors with 100-160k CR over one night, are abusing this exploit. It's a FACT that these people are cheaters, there's no debate.
    So what if they would be at the top even without this exploit, myabe they would maybe they wouldn't. The point is that they didn't earn they place there, they cheated their way to the top.

    The only question you should be asking is how are the devs going to punish these people and fix the chaos this exploit has created.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Botty said:

    @RyceCream said:

    @Silverie said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Not true, top 10 always changes as times comes by, and it is not true that the people within the rank aren't complaining, more like the people that USED the exploit are not complaining because it would harm them to do so.

    Top 10s will always stay at or around top 10 if they still actively play. Top 3 in their respective class as well. The weapon harms the top 10 more than others and we almost all collectively agreed that it needs to be fixed. It just so happens that 90 people have a much bigger voice than those 10.

    The current top ranking has tons of people that were nowhere to be seen in the previous arena. The group everyone is pointing at are these players, don't lump the previous arena top 10s with them.

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

    I'm referring to the current top 10 vs the previous top 10 arena. Anyone that loses CR over a day while being stuck in whatever floor clearly used the weapon. And this can extend to anyone that cleared 120. The numbers will grow every day.
    I'm not pointing fingers, I'm differentiating the multiple groups of people that everyone in here are generalizing.

  • @Botty said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    yo, i been complaining since this shit came out and i am currently top 100, what are you trying to say huh?

    Also top 100. I could have cracked the top 10 with my 115 clear time when we were all stuck on 116... now that 30 people cleared the whole thing tho.... r.i.p red wings.. I just want them to confirm if its bannable by Monday so I can take another shot at 116 with exploits.

  • BottyBotty Member

    @RyceCream said:

    @Botty said:

    @RyceCream said:

    @Silverie said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    Not true, top 10 always changes as times comes by, and it is not true that the people within the rank aren't complaining, more like the people that USED the exploit are not complaining because it would harm them to do so.

    Top 10s will always stay at or around top 10 if they still actively play. Top 3 in their respective class as well. The weapon harms the top 10 more than others and we almost all collectively agreed that it needs to be fixed. It just so happens that 90 people have a much bigger voice than those 10.

    The current top ranking has tons of people that were nowhere to be seen in the previous arena. The group everyone is pointing at are these players, don't lump the previous arena top 10s with them.

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

    I'm referring to the current top 10 vs the previous top 10 arena. Anyone that loses CR over a day while being stuck in whatever floor clearly used the weapon. And this can extend to anyone that cleared 120. The numbers will grow every day.
    I'm not pointing fingers, I'm differentiating the multiple groups of people that everyone in here are generalizing.

    I should have been more specific, I was not trying to imply that you were generalizing so my bad on that. The comment in regards to generalization was meant for everyone assuming things without anything to back it up.

  • BottyBotty Member

    @NMP4YMLDHH said:

    @Botty said:

    Yet here we have certain people within the top 10 (not dropping names) openly claiming in discord that they for sure know the majority of the current top 10 used the exploit. At this point it's all hearsay anyway but given some people's behavior in discord, some of which are ppl currently in top, I wouldn't doubt its true but again, this is all rumors and speculating, does not mean it is true. Pointing fingers at people is stupid in the first place, I was nowhere to be seen in last arena's ranking, does that mean I am a cheater cause I am currently in the top 100? Generalizing is a bad thing, I am sure there are a bunch of people who abused this weapon BS but I am gonna leave the pointing fingers to EME.

    What are you talking about? There's no need for speculation, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the people who are at the top, who struggled to beat Floor 116 with 250k CR, who suddenly beat all 120 Floors with 100-160k CR over one night, are abusing this exploit. It's a FACT that these people are cheaters, there's no debate.
    So what if they would be at the top even without this exploit, myabe they would maybe they wouldn't. The point is that they didn't earn they place there, they cheated their way to the top.

    The only question you should be asking is how are the devs going to punish these people and fix the chaos this exploit has created.

    Oh trust me I am 100% with you on that

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    Let me add one last thing, the weapon itself is an exploit in the loosest term. It's not a cheat or a hack. It's the dev's fault for this oversight and the player's fault for not knowing that this weapon existed all the way back in CBT. Using an item that destroys any sense of competition isn't/shouldn't be bannable. It's like saying doomblades are OP and unfair, ban all the doomblades!

    I'd rather have the first week void of rewards than for someone to find this much later into the game, which can potentially cause a bigger issue. I wasn't even the one trying to start a wildfire when EME is out of office.

  • BottyBotty Member

    @PCYGCLGRFE said:

    @Botty said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    yo, i been complaining since this shit came out and i am currently top 100, what are you trying to say huh?

    Also top 100. I could have cracked the top 10 with my 115 clear time when we were all stuck on 116... now that 30 people cleared the whole thing tho.... r.i.p red wings.. I just want them to confirm if its bannable by Monday so I can take another shot at 116 with exploits.

    Yeh I made it to 107 then exploit was made public and I just stopped, I may as well bash my head against a wall repeatedly and be less frustrated than trying to climb the tower any further

  • @Botty said:

    @PCYGCLGRFE said:

    @Botty said:

    @Exped said:
    Whoever is top 10 ATM is the same top 10 always. These weapons not changing much. I hardly agree with Ice, but it's true only people not complaining are the 11-100 people.

    yo, i been complaining since this shit came out and i am currently top 100, what are you trying to say huh?

    Also top 100. I could have cracked the top 10 with my 115 clear time when we were all stuck on 116... now that 30 people cleared the whole thing tho.... r.i.p red wings.. I just want them to confirm if its bannable by Monday so I can take another shot at 116 with exploits.

    Yeh I made it to 107 then exploit was made public and I just stopped, I may as well bash my head against a wall repeatedly and be less frustrated than trying to climb the tower any further

    Bans would be juicy. but I highly doubt it.

  • MaljasMaljas Member

    Exploit

    use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way.
    "the company was exploiting a legal loophole"

    Just so everyone is clear on the term. Hacks and cheats are not what this is. No one has claimed that to be the case.

This discussion has been closed.