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  • SpireaSpirea Member ✭✭✭

    Rank 1 and rank 2 Valks rerolled to DB on NA, and they do not regret it in any way.
    These 2 went from clearing eeri in 7, to 3ish minutes.
    We also had our rank 1 frost mage reroll into a void monk
    His carry- time went from 10 to 5 minutes.
    Note that at that time, their mains were still stronger.

    Such a colossal difference is not healthy for the game, where people are quitting their original class to play another purely for the reason the class is overpowered.
    Unfortunately this has been going on ever since imprints were released, just few people realized it until people actually saw how good certain classes were (and after firelords for A2)

    P.S Doomblade cleared floor 190 of FM in under 1 minute, can any other class come close?

  • @Wujek1382 said:

    @knight6 said:
    What are you calling superior classes? Doomblades are OP/ Psions are strong and mages suck those are the main imbalances. Valks and assassin are harder to use but still ok.
    When your main can't carry you party with other players and trade runs 2 carries 2 players instead. If you can't do that you can trade 3 carries for 1 player but u should be able to redo your party setup unless you call can barely defeat the boss together.

    u are shallowing and blurring the problem that exist will u accept it or no.
    Carrying at 3 ppl its pointless cos of max res that u can use also doing it will split the payment by 1/3....and finally why someone should pick carry that lasts much ,much, much longer (need to reset cos of wipes) that from OP classes no one will after going one run. Its problematic and quite hard.
    U dont get it cos in high probability i can say u are maining that OP classes. OFC point of view depends on the point of sitting.... u are like my, myself and i, my class is good why they complain stupid ppl... who care abut the rest that need to sweet to get some, the most important im getting the cake...easy
    Oh u forget about vamps and WG, and berserks but hey who care no one playing it except some fools that didnt pick the "right" class.

    I don't play doomblade or psion if thats why you are implying. I think in every game there are gonna be classes that are better than others when fully geared. I was saying all classes except possibly mages can clear the dungeons I don't play or know any mages(that actually play much). Doomblades are broken but anyone who rerolled to them just made a logical choice since gameplay wasn't as high a priority as efficient farming. I could reroll to a doomblade but don't bother cause playing like that is lame and I don't enjoy it. Doomblade got 2nd awakening before most other classes to add onto an already known problem and mages have needed a buff since forever. All the other classes are capable of doing the content at the rated cr from what I have observed with the exception of mages since I haven't seen any yet.

  • RPN7NPCCG6RPN7NPCCG6 Member, KOL ✭✭

    @Spirea said:
    Rank 1 and rank 2 Valks rerolled to DB on NA, and they do not regret it in any way.
    These 2 went from clearing eeri in 7, to 3ish minutes.
    We also had our rank 1 frost mage reroll into a void monk
    His carry- time went from 10 to 5 minutes.
    Note that at that time, their mains were still stronger.

    Such a colossal difference is not healthy for the game, where people are quitting their original class to play another purely for the reason the class is overpowered.
    Unfortunately this has been going on ever since imprints were released, just few people realized it until people actually saw how good certain classes were (and after firelords for A2)

    P.S Doomblade cleared floor 190 of FM in under 1 minute, can any other class come close?

    I'd rather carry a bit slower, but play my main which I enjoy. Alt tho if those people need to trade 14 alts weekly and sell carries for money everyday, they will look for efficiency no matter what, and there always will be some classes that do it quicker or slower. 7 or 3 minutes not big difference to me, as long as I play my main and dont have to carry this dungeon on daily basis like a second job. Not like doomblade oneshots new ultimate zones, right? Some mediocre 2 mil db with not enough sr may suffer even more than other classes because of being unable to easily survive bosses long enough. Also first time hear about frost mage being able to carry new ultimate zones, we dont have any gunmages on EU being capable of it, so it's something he can call an achievement.
    I'm not saying balance in this game is good, it's obviously terrible, and few classes enjoy the game more at the expense of others. But being someone who can carry eeri or pirates already and rerolling new main just to carry it faster is weird reasoning to me. Why doesnt everyone reroll to sin then to be able to clear 70 floor fastest without dusk weapon? ¯_ツ_/¯
    And about FM, we all know that db's biggest advantage is ex soul vortex, I cleared floor 170 with a 800k cr from a first try just pinning them to wall and rightclicking. Maybe if they remove giving ex charges on dying in fm or punish dying in some other way, it will be more fair.

  • PhoenixShiPhoenixShi Member

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:

    @PhoenixShi said:

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    Should have gone DFO/Closers route and made 0 changes or minor changes to the game and released it to the West. Well at least KtK is not the only one who f.up. by releasing a mutilated/over-tuned version of their Korean counter part, as SoulWorker under atrocious GForge did almost the same, one could say even worse.

    I take a peak at these forums now, and then, but this got me to post for the first time, in a long time.

    You're kidding, right? While there were some changes in the NA/EU release of SoulWorker, some are just as our version hasn't caught up to the Korean/Japanese release, so are currently like they were at this phase in its release. Then in terms of difficulty changes, you'd have to be insane to even consider the changes to be anything even remotely close to what was done here. While they did up it somewhat, which I was against, it's still not to the same degree as here, and you barely notice it anymore the further out of the first town you go. They may also be looking to adjust that back, and I haven't found GameForge to be nearly as bad as I've seen people keep going on about. Oh, there were also apparently changes made in EME's release of Closers, and right now they're looking to remove the stamina system from the game, so that looks like a pretty big change.

    Ok dude. I see you are one of those corporate shills who like to defend scummy publishing practices but that is normal cause people tend to like SnM in modern gaming community.

    So anyone that doesn't hold your opinion is a corporate shill? Seems more like you've got a strong negative opinion of GameForge, and can't believe they'd do anything right, which is colouring over everything you say.

    .

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    Let`s go one by one with comparisons -

    A)Both games had EXP gained nerfed, mob/boss HP/DMG increased and rewards lowered compared to their Asian versions.

    B)SoulWorker Japan vs SW
    1. On JP server it's easier to level up. (EXP gain is not halved) I just followed the quests and I'm already in the second town without any additional runs & have 15 lvl. When I played here, I made at less 4x Maniac pre-last section & 8x Maniac Best Showtime to leave the first town with 15 lvl. (Fluid leveling progression)
    2. On JP server the drop rates are better. This true for crafting material and the gear too. Also, bonus reward after instance which you unlocks with the key comes in more quantity and with higher chances of rares.
    3. On JP server you need 10x less crafting materials for crafting fashion (maybe another stuff too, haven't checked yet).
    4. On JP server login bonus reward table is MUCH-MUCH better.
    5. On JP server you have 3 resurrections per day for free uniquely per character.
    6. On JP server you can store up to bonus 600 energy (here is 400).
    7. On JP server premium shop prices in near 8x less. Also, the shop is built-in with preview, not just web-page.
    8. There are no XP\Money books and so on in the premium shop on JP server.
    9. Login bonus counts separately for every character on JP server.

    All you really did there is copy paste from an old thread on the SoulWorker forums, while omitting positive things in the original post like how it's easier to get items at any level from the player market, easier to find people to play with at any level, and how that person said they were having more fun playing on the NA/EU servers, than the Japanese ones.

    1. Things like this are common changes made to a game over time, as they want people to get to higher levels faster, once the level cap increases. People were comparing the state on the current version on the NA/EU servers, vs the current version of the Japanese ones, the Japanese servers were well ahead of the NA/EU one. It could also be that Lion Games decided they didn't like people blasting to cap so quickly in other versions, so they were the ones that slowed the progress on the NA/EU servers. Although people responded well to the recent XP, and drop rate bonus event, so they quickly followed it up with another +50% XP weekend event, that's how the half EP weekends thing started, so we may be getting more XP events, or an overall flat change in the future.
    2. Drop rates are always something people like to talk about like they are some expert, with inside info, but due to all the RNG involved, they more often than not, haven't a clue what they're talking about. SoulWorker scales drop rates in relation to your level, and that of the content, the further out of the intended range you are, the less you get, and I find I get plenty of stuff when in the intended range. Again though, it could just be the same situation as I described above with the XP gain rate. Then if there was a drop rate reduction, it likely was to balance against the added dungeon runs you'd need to do, so that by the time you get to the same point, you could have about the same amount of stuff.
    3. Things aren't described as X times less, that makes no sense, if something is stated to be X times something else, it's referring to an increase. Aside from that, you edited that to make it even worse than stated in that thread, which only further demonstrates your negative bias. With SoulWorker you get a lot of costume item blueprints while playing, most aren't anything too exciting though, and you can get various complete costume items from events. This again could be a change made over time in other versions as well, then like with most games, when you look at the cost of things in terms of currency, or items, at first you're thinking "how will I ever afford any of that?" only to later think to yourself "what can I do with all this excess currency/items?" as if you just keep playing, eventually you'll gather up a lot of all of such common things.
    4. Whatever.
    5. This was a known change made over time, as those other servers were like they are here now at first too, and it is expected that over time we'll have the same system as they have.
    6. After the usual complaining about stamina GameForge/Lion Games started giving out two EP (stamina) recharge items for free each day, one restores 100 EP instantly (you get 200 EP recharged per day, and 50% of the left over base is carried over to the next day), the other restores it over time as a community item, both can be stored for later use. Also for some time now on weekends you consume half the EP cost of dungeons.
    7. A noticeable price difference is a common thing people point out in Asian F2P games when they come here, as the way their revenue model works is different, what with net cafes being a common thing there, and such. Then from the time that thread was started, they reduced the price of some items, removed some items, and made some changes to the cash shop currency purchase cost, which reduced its cost for NA players. The preview thing again is no doubt related to their version of the game being further ahead of ours.
    8. Because boosters for XP, and currency are unheard of in F2P games...
    9. Regarding this, and your other log-in reward comments, I find that games that give a lot of stuff out as log-in rewards, will be rather stingy in other ways, as without all that extra stuff, you could have a harder time playing. I can play SoulWorker quite well, and find spending money more of an option, than a necessity, then while they have made some screw ups, I'm having much more fun with it, than I did with Kritika, and all the BS changes made here, which I why I'm playing SoulWorker, not Kritika.
  • PhoenixShiPhoenixShi Member

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    12. More frequent and more generous events that give you tons of free stuff ranging from bank slots/character slots to tons of mats and +High Ench. tickets.

    Sometimes there are no events, other times, like right now, there can be multiple events going on at once, which is all fairly common in online games. There have been some pretty decent ones, like the one for the most recent character release, and when they added the My Home feature, some weren't anything special, overall, I've been fine with it. Events I find fall in the same theme that I described with log-in rewards above, for instance, over in the NA/EU release of Blade & Soul they make events an important part of progression, so you really need to do them, making them an added grind, which is quite annoying, I'd rather they be more like they are with most games, just extra stuff that come up at times, for some fun, and extra stuff.

    You can get all sorts of items using secondary in-game currencies, get inventory, and bank slot expansions from level-up rewards, quests, and events, equipment enhancing, and related items can be obtained as drops, from salvaging, and with the fore mentioned secondary currencies, as well as from quests, and events. You're talking as if none of that exists here, but it does, all of it.

    .

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    But that is all useless white noise cause you missed the main point of my post which is mentioned in the first fakking sentence -

    ~DO NOT FUDGE with the ORIGINAL game design philosophy for the sake of satisfying the 5 pcnt. minority of HCore no-lifers/whales. It most likely will kill your game.~

    Okay, let's look at that for a moment. Look at all the awful changes you listed, oh my, that stuff is just going to hurt a game sooooooooo much. Oh noes, it takes more materials to make cosmetic items, oh the horrors, I get less log-in rewards, I can't preview cosmetics in-game (yet), it (currently) takes a bit longer to level up, how will a game ever survive such horrid changes?!?!? That was all sarcasm by the way, as those are nothing changes, that do very little to hurt how well one can play the game.

    Over in SoulWorker, I can keep my chars geared up quite well in top grade items, especially since equipment is pretty much all bound to account, not to character, and dropped armour is usable by all characters, with just most of the crafted ones being for a specific character, with the main advantage of the crafted character sets being the ample set bonuses, while they are otherwise basically the same as the common dropped ones usable by all characters. Top grade equipment is so readily available, and as it can be reused by all your characters, we can be rather picky about the bonuses, and stats of it, so even much of those items gained while playing are just salvaged, rather than sold on the market, with everything below top grade just being salvaged. Gold costs scale to the level of the action, enhancing my armour feels like it actually does something, and the player market works like it does in most games. Then a big reason why the first town, new player experience is hard in SoulWorker, is you start with no armour at all, although once you have gathered up some decent equipment, as well as enhanced it some, and especially as you go further out of the first town, then as I said, any mob damage bonuses in SoulWorker aren't really noticed much at all. Also in response to the complaints of high damage by mobs, they clearly boosted the drop rates of restorative consumables, which are pretty good, and have a short cool down.

    Now let's look at this version of Kritika. While levelling I had a harder time keeping my characters equipped through drops, which were all character bound on equip items, so at one point when I went to the snowy fifth town, I had enough materials to make nine blue grade (mid grade) pieces of armour, although while I just finished the daily dungeon intro quest, which gave a good sum of gold, and that day was the day for the gold reward daily, which gave even more gold, and I was being stingy about spending gold, I only had enough gold to make three, or four pieces of armour. At one point with a levelling character I tried enhancing my armour a ways to see if it felt like it helped any, I couldn't tell if there was much, if any difference in the damage I was taking, as the damage bonus to everything, even normal mobs, is/was insane in this version of the game. The player market was changed to use a secondary cash shop currency, not an in-game currency, plus they soon after started dictating the price range of everything, so while in most games I'd sell my excess stuff, and buy items I didn't get as drops, in Kritika it was a fairly useless thing to me, and meant there was a lot less stuff being put on the market. Gold prices of things were absurd compared to the amount I was getting, plus didn't scale with the level of the equipment being enhanced, so unless I was very stingy, or used funds from another char, I could be constantly broke when levelling a character, something I've never before experienced in such a game. I always felt that at least part of the reason the stats demands in higher content of this version are so high, as they changed the enhancing system from one where equipment could be destroyed if you failed past a point, to basically just another grind to get through. In games that have that other types of enhancing system, where your stuff can be destroyed after a point, I find high enhancements to be mostly a pay luxury, that can basically make content trivial, although since it's just another necessary grind to get through here, it just makes this game far more fitting of being to your description of where you need to be a whale, or no-lifer if you want to play, which would be at least part of why the player base dried up so quickly.

    I originally responded, as you claimed the difficulty increases in the NA/EU release of SoulWorker was worse than in this version of Kritika, which I found, and still find an absurd statement. Although to counter me, you just went on about a lot of things, that had little, to nothing to do with the difficulty of playing the game. While the thing you claim to be the core of your complaint, instead fits to this warped version of Kritika quite well.

  • @PhoenixShi said:

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    12. More frequent and more generous events that give you tons of free stuff ranging from bank slots/character slots to tons of mats and +High Ench. tickets.

    Sometimes there are no events, other times, like right now, there can be multiple events going on at once, which is all fairly common in online games. There have been some pretty decent ones, like the one for the most recent character release, and when they added the My Home feature, some weren't anything special, overall, I've been fine with it. Events I find fall in the same theme that I described with log-in rewards above, for instance, over in the NA/EU release of Blade & Soul they make events an important part of progression, so you really need to do them, making them an added grind, which is quite annoying, I'd rather they be more like they are with most games, just extra stuff that come up at times, for some fun, and extra stuff.

    You can get all sorts of items using secondary in-game currencies, get inventory, and bank slot expansions from level-up rewards, quests, and events, equipment enhancing, and related items can be obtained as drops, from salvaging, and with the fore mentioned secondary currencies, as well as from quests, and events. You're talking as if none of that exists here, but it does, all of it.

    .

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    But that is all useless white noise cause you missed the main point of my post which is mentioned in the first fakking sentence -

    ~DO NOT FUDGE with the ORIGINAL game design philosophy for the sake of satisfying the 5 pcnt. minority of HCore no-lifers/whales. It most likely will kill your game.~

    Okay, let's look at that for a moment. Look at all the awful changes you listed, oh my, that stuff is just going to hurt a game sooooooooo much. Oh noes, it takes more materials to make cosmetic items, oh the horrors, I get less log-in rewards, I can't preview cosmetics in-game (yet), it (currently) takes a bit longer to level up, how will a game ever survive such horrid changes?!?!? That was all sarcasm by the way, as those are nothing changes, that do very little to hurt how well one can play the game.

    Over in SoulWorker, I can keep my chars geared up quite well in top grade items, especially since equipment is pretty much all bound to account, not to character, and dropped armour is usable by all characters, with just most of the crafted ones being for a specific character, with the main advantage of the crafted character sets being the ample set bonuses, while they are otherwise basically the same as the common dropped ones usable by all characters. Top grade equipment is so readily available, and as it can be reused by all your characters, we can be rather picky about the bonuses, and stats of it, so even much of those items gained while playing are just salvaged, rather than sold on the market, with everything below top grade just being salvaged. Gold costs scale to the level of the action, enhancing my armour feels like it actually does something, and the player market works like it does in most games. Then a big reason why the first town, new player experience is hard in SoulWorker, is you start with no armour at all, although once you have gathered up some decent equipment, as well as enhanced it some, and especially as you go further out of the first town, then as I said, any mob damage bonuses in SoulWorker aren't really noticed much at all. Also in response to the complaints of high damage by mobs, they clearly boosted the drop rates of restorative consumables, which are pretty good, and have a short cool down.

    Now let's look at this version of Kritika. While levelling I had a harder time keeping my characters equipped through drops, which were all character bound on equip items, so at one point when I went to the snowy fifth town, I had enough materials to make nine blue grade (mid grade) pieces of armour, although while I just finished the daily dungeon intro quest, which gave a good sum of gold, and that day was the day for the gold reward daily, which gave even more gold, and I was being stingy about spending gold, I only had enough gold to make three, or four pieces of armour. At one point with a levelling character I tried enhancing my armour a ways to see if it felt like it helped any, I couldn't tell if there was much, if any difference in the damage I was taking, as the damage bonus to everything, even normal mobs, is/was insane in this version of the game. The player market was changed to use a secondary cash shop currency, not an in-game currency, plus they soon after started dictating the price range of everything, so while in most games I'd sell my excess stuff, and buy items I didn't get as drops, in Kritika it was a fairly useless thing to me, and meant there was a lot less stuff being put on the market. Gold prices of things were absurd compared to the amount I was getting, plus didn't scale with the level of the equipment being enhanced, so unless I was very stingy, or used funds from another char, I could be constantly broke when levelling a character, something I've never before experienced in such a game. I always felt that at least part of the reason the stats demands in higher content of this version are so high, as they changed the enhancing system from one where equipment could be destroyed if you failed past a point, to basically just another grind to get through. In games that have that other types of enhancing system, where your stuff can be destroyed after a point, I find high enhancements to be mostly a pay luxury, that can basically make content trivial, although since it's just another necessary grind to get through here, it just makes this game far more fitting of being to your description of where you need to be a whale, or no-lifer if you want to play, which would be at least part of why the player base dried up so quickly.

    I originally responded, as you claimed the difficulty increases in the NA/EU release of SoulWorker was worse than in this version of Kritika, which I found, and still find an absurd statement. Although to counter me, you just went on about a lot of things, that had little, to nothing to do with the difficulty of playing the game. While the thing you claim to be the core of your complaint, instead fits to this warped version of Kritika quite well.

    Ah, yes, pardon my blunder. I thank you very much for correcting me and pointing out that the core idea of the complaint is more befitting KtK English then SoulWorker English.

  • HXKLGAYHamsterHXKLGAYHamster Member
    edited August 2018

    Sadly, you did not notice that the main complaint - no matter how minor or major deviations from the main developer team intended vision for any online games progression can ruin new player experience and hurt long term player retention. I happened to notice that happens to often with Western published games which in fact leads to Eastern online games having such infamous or even highly negative reputation in the West.
    PS: Anyways thanks for the corrections and points-out. GL mate and stay safe.

  • PhoenixShiPhoenixShi Member

    @HXKLGAYHamster said:
    Sadly, you did not notice that the main complaint - no matter how minor or major deviations from the main developer team intended vision for any online games progression can ruin new player experience and hurt long term player retention. I happened to notice that happens to often with Western published games which in fact leads to Eastern online games having such infamous or even highly negative reputation in the West.
    PS: Anyways thanks for the corrections and points-out. GL mate and stay safe.

    Yes this is very late, but I didn't bother to look till now, and with EME's messed up version of Kritika shutting down, it's now or never I guess.

    From what I've seen in my now twenty, or so years of online gaming, when a game is brought over to another region, there will pretty much ALWAYS be changes. If you want to play a game exactly how it is in a different region, your only real option is to find some way to play that version, in another region. The differences between this version, and other versions of Kritika were pretty massive, with the huge boost in mob stats, and massive changes to player trading, as well as the player market. On the other hand the differences between our version of SoulWorker, and the Korean version it's based off of, which from what I gather is different from the Japanese version people keep comparing it to, has not been as significant. Then over time, some of the things people complained were lacking, has made its way to the NA/EU release, like better log-in rewards, and faster levelling.

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