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Elemental vs Bonus damage

So as per title which is better stacking? Elemental damage or bonus flat/% damage? Or should we balance?

Comments

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    They're the same damage bonus as far as the % goes. Elemental gives no CR while bonus % does. So attack and bonus % for more cr, then elemental to get a good damage boost.

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭

    Balancing them would be the best.

    Let's say you have +25% damage from your elemental bonus and 50% flat (75% total), seeing that they both affect eachother you end up with an 87.5% total increase.

    But if you balance your bonuses 37.5% and 37.5% (still 75% total), you end up with an increase of over 89%

    The differences are not huge, but assuming the stat budgets are equal, keeping the percentages as close to eachother is the best choice for pure output.

  • @Grievuuz said:
    Balancing them would be the best.

    Let's say you have +25% damage from your elemental bonus and 50% flat (75% total), seeing that they both affect eachother you end up with an 87.5% total increase.

    But if you balance your bonuses 37.5% and 37.5% (still 75% total), you end up with an increase of over 89%

    The differences are not huge, but assuming the stat budgets are equal, keeping the percentages as close to eachother is the best choice for pure output.

    Or in other words, whichever is lower is better to stack.

    But are you sure this is the way it works? have you tested this? The elemental bonus and bonus damage % might be additive as far as we know.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    It depends on the calculations which we have no info on. I highly doubt they double dip and multiply each other and is just an additive total multiplier. Like instead of saying 1.25*1.5, I think the calculation would be just 1.25+1.5 multiplier.

  • EtliaEtlia Member
    edited June 2017

    While we don't actually have how the numbers work in tandem with each other, it is undeniable that Bonus Dmg % has a strong effect on your CR. It isn't necessarily better to stack it, and it isn't like you go for one or the other except maybe on weapon.

    There's no reason to stop stacking at 120. You go as high as you can.

  • EtliaEtlia Member

    @Modifier said:

    @Etlia said:
    While we don't actually have how the numbers work in tandem with each other, it is undeniable that Bonus Dmg % has a strong effect on your CR. It isn't necessarily better to stack it, and it isn't like you go for one or the other except maybe on weapon.

    There's no reason to stop stacking at 120. You go as high as you can.

    True that. let them waste their gold and sockets on that, so I can be better than them. Sounds like a great idea. Good job team.

    Actually, using elemental charms on accessories is a no-brainer. Since each charm you equip can proc an effect individually. Soul gems are the same too, each piece has defined slots. It isn't like you can put in bonus dmg where you can put elemental bonus ones.

  • EtliaEtlia Member
    edited June 2017

    @Modifier said:

    @Etlia said:
    Actually, using elemental charms on accessories is a no-brainer. Since each charm you equip can proc an effect individually. Soul gems are the same too, each piece has defined slots. ****It isn't like you can put in bonus dmg where you can put elemental bonus ones.


    Powerful charm I:
    bonus damage: +0.52%
    slot: weapon, ear, neck, finger

    Guess I was wrong then...OH WAIT.

    I said soul gems were the ones where you can not put them in elemental bonus ones.

    Even though charms for accessories are different, it isn't relevant. You'd still want elemental bonus ones over the other, especially since they can come with attack on them.

    by the way, you remember those elemental weapon box you get at lv 65 reward? The one that boost your element by putting it in your weapon? Yeah. I guess you dont.

    Um. I think you must be confused. The only reward you get for reaching level 65 is a weapon skin.

    Perhaps you're referring to the charm boxes that you get 35 and 55 that have a chance of giving you an elemental weapon charm.

    Even so, how are you arguing the opposite? These charms are extremely powerful. The only reason you wouldn't want to put one on is if your weapon already came affixed with an element.

  • CarthhCarthh Member
    edited June 2017

    @Modifier said:
    Powerful charm I:
    bonus damage: +0.52%
    slot: weapon, ear, neck, finger

    Guess I was wrong then...OH WAIT.

    by the way, you remember those elemental weapon box you get at lv 65 reward? The one that boost your element by putting it in your weapon? Yeah. I guess you dont.

    You do know each elemental bonus gives you 0.3% damage right? So a tier 1 elemental charm gives you 4.5% bonus damage. Also, there are no weapon charms that give elemental bonus, they only change your element type.

  • EtliaEtlia Member

    @Modifier said:

    @Etlia said:
    I said soul gems were the ones where you can not put them in elemental bonus ones.

    @Etlia said:

    Actually, using elemental charms on accessories is a no-brainer. Since each charm you equip can proc an effect individually. Soul gems are the same too, each piece has defined slots. ****It isn't like you can put in bonus dmg where you can put elemental bonus ones.

    Can you not see? You were talking about both, charms and soul gems.

    I see you are a bit confused.

    When I said that Soul gems are the same, I added the context in which I meant this by saying that each piece had its own defined slot. After saying this, I continued by saying that you cannot affix bonus damage to these soul gem slots, as they are unique and cannot be interchanged. Bonus damage only exist on rubies, and accessories can only have topaz slots.

  • EtliaEtlia Member

    Nonetheless, my point still stands @WW44JDPEA6 .

    There isn't a reason to choose elemental bonus over bonus damage. This choice doesn't ever happen except if you're trying to reroll a weapon and you need to choose one over the other, in which case, I would choose bonus damage.

    You can choose to put bonus dmg/attack charms on your accessories, but this is a very weak charm that only serves to boost your combat rating. Your overall DPS would decrease by doing so.

    Like what @Carthh said just for comparison:

    Powerful Charm I:
    + 0.52 Bonus Dmg

    Vs.

    [Element] Charm I:
    + 15 [Element] Bonus (which equates to 4.5% bonus damage)

    The choice here is very clear.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Modifier said:

    @Etlia said:

    I see you are a bit confused.

    When I said that Soul gems are the same, I added the context in which I meant this by saying that each piece had its own defined slot. After saying this, I continued by saying that you cannot affix bonus damage to these soul gem slots, as they are unique and cannot be interchanged. Bonus damage only exist on rubies, and accessories can only have topaz slots.

    Indeed, I'm confused from your inability to be clear.

    "Soul gems are the same too, each piece has defined slots. It isn't like you can put in bonus dmg where you can put elemental bonus ones."

    How much more clear do you want it to be? You're actually a troll and you're spreading misinformation. I'll let you stick to your low damage 120 elemental cap misconceptions because you're right and everyone else is wrong.

  • How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭

    @ModestHope said:
    How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

    All your abilities (without native element) gets the elemental bonus of whatever weapon damage type you use. Some of the Starhenge weapons have these natively rolled on them, while others will need weapon charms that convert it.

    Classes like Firelord get a native element on almost all their abilities and won't need said weapon charm or native effect.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Modifier said:

    @RyceCream said:
    ? You're actually a troll and you're spreading misinformation. I'll let you stick to your low damage 120 elemental cap misconceptions because you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    How can a suggestion be considered as a valid information? Please explain.

    @Modifier said:
    answer: 120 elemental

    @Modifier said:
    answer

    I didn't know answers were in fact suggestions.

    @Modifier said:
    You're welcome.

  • @Grievuuz said:

    @ModestHope said:
    How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

    All your abilities (without native element) gets the elemental bonus of whatever weapon damage type you use. Some of the Starhenge weapons have these natively rolled on them, while others will need weapon charms that convert it.

    Classes like Firelord get a native element on almost all their abilities and won't need said weapon charm or native effect.

    Thanks

    How does you know if the weapon has a element rolled on it?

    My weapon has "Poison Bonus" on it. Is this just the same as regular Elemental Bonus or does it also make my type Poison?

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @ModestHope said:

    @Grievuuz said:

    @ModestHope said:
    How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

    All your abilities (without native element) gets the elemental bonus of whatever weapon damage type you use. Some of the Starhenge weapons have these natively rolled on them, while others will need weapon charms that convert it.

    Classes like Firelord get a native element on almost all their abilities and won't need said weapon charm or native effect.

    Thanks

    How does you know if the weapon has a element rolled on it?

    My weapon has "Poison Bonus" on it. Is this just the same as regular Elemental Bonus or does it also make my type Poison?

    It will have that as the very last line on the weapon. Poison bonus is just elemental bonus.

  • GrievuuzGrievuuz Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017

    @ModestHope said:

    @Grievuuz said:

    @ModestHope said:
    How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

    All your abilities (without native element) gets the elemental bonus of whatever weapon damage type you use. Some of the Starhenge weapons have these natively rolled on them, while others will need weapon charms that convert it.

    Classes like Firelord get a native element on almost all their abilities and won't need said weapon charm or native effect.

    Thanks

    How does you know if the weapon has a element rolled on it?

    My weapon has "Poison Bonus" on it. Is this just the same as regular Elemental Bonus or does it also make my type Poison?

    Makes your type poison yes, which means that your skills without a native element become poison damage, and will benefit from your poison damage. If you have 120 that means you do 36% more damage with said skills.

    Edit; sorry I was too quick on the trigger, no, "poison bonus" followed by a number just means that you gain that much bonus towards said element. It needs to specifically say "Poison Weapon Damage".

  • @RyceCream said:

    @ModestHope said:

    @Grievuuz said:

    @ModestHope said:
    How does Elemental Bonus work? Does it only apply if you're using that specific element?

    i.e. Fire Bonus: Increases the fire damage you deal by 3%

    If so, does this mean elemental bonus is completely useless for Vamps?

    All your abilities (without native element) gets the elemental bonus of whatever weapon damage type you use. Some of the Starhenge weapons have these natively rolled on them, while others will need weapon charms that convert it.

    Classes like Firelord get a native element on almost all their abilities and won't need said weapon charm or native effect.

    Thanks

    How does you know if the weapon has a element rolled on it?

    My weapon has "Poison Bonus" on it. Is this just the same as regular Elemental Bonus or does it also make my type Poison?

    It will have that as the very last line on the weapon. Poison bonus is just elemental bonus.

    Much appreciated.

    :D

  • EtliaEtlia Member
    edited June 2017

    Well, you can say that the answer is subjective if you want, but objectively it's just a truth that elemental bonus due to the fact it increases appropriate elemental damage by .3% per point is just better than bonus damage for damage output in the majority of cases in which you have a choice between them. I will reiterate that you want both of them.

    As other people have pointed out and if you're really having issues deciding, weigh your options. If there's a choice between them, convert how much elemental bonus you are losing into a percentage and compare that to the amount of bonus damage you're losing.

  • IceIce Member, Player Moderators mod

    @Modifier said:

    @RyceCream said:

    I didn't know answers were in fact suggestions.

    In these type of questions, ''which one is better/should we balance?'' in this game, answers are rather subjective than objective, and that does mean that my answer is rather an opinion or a suggestion than a fact on how each individual should approach their build. Perhaps, you should review your narrow definition of an ''answer'' instead of avoiding my questions which you didn't bother to explain.

    There's a very clear answer here like everyone else has told you, so no it's not subjective. All your responses so far have been rather aggressive telling them they're wrong and you're not. Perhaps you should review your narrow train of thought and actually provide some reasoning behind it instead of just saying "this is better, ur welcome".

  • noctrednoctred Member
    edited June 2017

    We're dealing with numbers, not favorite colors. Math is math.

    Bonus damage and elemental bonus damage provide the same boost percent for percent. However, point for point, an elemental bonus charm will provide more damage than an equivalent grade bonus damage charm if your build leverages that element. Same goes for soul gems.

    Do what you want with your build, but understand that there's nothing subjective about raw math.

  • @Modifier said:

    @Etlia said:
    Well, you can say that the answer is subjective if you want, but objectively it's just a truth that elemental bonus due to the fact it increases appropriate elemental damage by .3% per point is just better than bonus damage for damage output in the majority of cases in which you have a choice between them. I will reiterate that you want both of them.

    Your reply is irrelevant to the argument. I never mentioned, or did I argue how each of them objectively affect the person, but rather share my opinion towards how one should approach them, which is considered subjective, since it's my opinion.

    @RyceCream said:
    There's a very clear answer here like everyone else has told you, so no it's not subjective. All your responses so far have been rather aggressive telling them they're wrong and you're not. Perhaps you should review your narrow train of thought and actually provide some reasoning behind it instead of just saying "this is better, ur welcome".


    First, there's no question to be answer in here, but rather searching for an effective way to approach the given system/mechanic, which, again, everyone has their own way on how to approach it, and that does mean that there's no certain answer,otherwise this thread wouldn't been continue since the answer aren't objectively as you assume. It's simple, if you were ask what's you favorite color, your answer would be subjective to everyone's else, unless you wish to deny facts. My response couldn't be possibly aggressive, nor in any way did I word as if one could assume such; however, if you wish to view it as such, you will. Also, again, you're bringing another topic, there is no place for ''right'' or ''wrong'' in this specific topic. However, you're right about not providing reasoning to my opinion, but, at this point, you're looking for something to argue with, rather than admit your misunderstanding.

    If you two wish to continue, I have to problem with it, but at least keep your replies/argument valid/relevant. :smile:

    Stop posting

  • Ok i got the gist of it thanks guys. > @noctred said:

    We're dealing with numbers, not favorite colors. Math is math.

    Bonus damage and elemental bonus damage provide the same boost percent for percent. However, point for point, an elemental bonus charm will provide more damage than an equivalent grade bonus damage charm if your build leverages that element. Same goes for soul gems.

    Do what you want with your build, but understand that there's nothing subjective about raw math.

    Of what math your talking about? I dunno how much you played MMOs but they have a formula to calculate damage dealt that it's not (attack + bonus - def = x) thingy and i asked this question expecialy to know what others think about it so don't tell me to do what i want to do with my build i'll care for this.

    Anyway i'll be asking another question related to stats that is refered to the gems: what do you think it's better on gems attack, damage or crit damage?

  • noctrednoctred Member
    edited June 2017

    @WW44JDPEA6 said:
    Of what math your talking about? I dunno how much you played MMOs but they have a formula to calculate damage dealt that it's not (attack + bonus - def = x) thingy and i asked this question expecialy to know what others think about it so don't tell me to do what i want to do with my build i'll care for this.

    My comment was directed at Modifier, not you.

    Nobody here knows the formulas as far as I'm aware - that information hasn't been exposed to us and we don't have a proper combat log or log parser to figure it out ourselves. The math comes from the tooltips. A single point of elemental bonus provides .3% bonus damage of that element. Point for point, this is a greater boost than what you'd get from an equivalent grade bonus damage charm or soul gem.

  • Ultimately, while both stats have good gains, you should prioritize elemental bonus/dmg for your class if you get it (ex. Fire Lord, with well fire), because of two additional factors, most monsters DO have a resistance/weakness to specific elements ontop of damage types (which is also the whole point of Elemental Fairy being able to use all elements except poison) and the additional debuffs/attacks you get from stacking it. You should also consider boss dmg/crit since its multiplied onto of your current base attack/critical if your looking for big raw numbers.

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