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Head Start Patch Notes v151

245

Comments

  • MaljasMaljas Member

    @EXRLJDACL3 said:

    @Indalacheon said:

    Many people who didnt say anything on the topic were completely okay with the changes. A lot of us understood that their goal was to make leveling slower.

    How can you say that? Do you just assume that people who don't talk about the topic are okay with the changes? That's ludicrous.

    People who were vocal primarily disagreed with the experience changes.

    You can't give your opinion if you're silent, people who are vocal that spend their free time giving feedback are the ones who actually want this game to succeed and endure for the long run.

    Goes both ways. You can't just assume that the people who did not speak up agree with your terms either. The point is not to talk for the entire community.

  • HakezuHakezu Member

    @3G9D7FC34Y said:
    If hard mode and insane were both 6x and then they decided to improve insane to 8x everyone would be orgasming all over en masse, but just because the starting point of the exp balance that en masse decided on for cbt was a bit too much everyone is complaining.

    The primary issue with insane was not regarding the XP, it's about the rewards you get for doing them, which they clearly still have not addressed.

  • Solo leveling was already fairly slow and repetitive for a lot of people in CBT, so of course they're going to be upset when EME announces that they're making it even slower for OBT. Also, using "people leveling too fast" as the reasoning is just dumb. There's always going to be a very small minority that hits cap immediately after launch, and punishing the entire player base because of it is just idiotic.

  • @EXRLJDACL3 said:

    @Indalacheon said:

    Many people who didnt say anything on the topic were completely okay with the changes. A lot of us understood that their goal was to make leveling slower.

    How can you say that? Do you just assume that people who don't talk about the topic are okay with the changes? That's ludicrous.

    People who were vocal primarily disagreed with the experience changes.

    You can't give your opinion if you're silent, people who are vocal that spend their free time giving feedback are the ones who actually want this game to succeed and endure for the long run.

    Thats how feedback works in general, you can imagine a bell curve. The people who feel the need to leave feedback will be those who either heavily agree or heavily disagree, on the left and right of the curve, and they will be the minority. The majority in the middle will be just ok with the changes, tha is because people who are "just ok" with something dont feel as compelled to leave feedback.

  • What about when the download will be available for people who uninstalled the game??? Didn't think of that one did you enmasse.

  • HakezuHakezu Member
    edited June 2017

    @Maljas said:

    Goes both ways. You can't just assume that the people who did not speak up agree with your terms either. The point is not to talk for the entire community.

    Yeah well, if you don't speak up, then you're not helping the cause.

    People who give feedback are like voters, every vote is counted and you're doing your job as a member of the community to do so.

    Don't speak up? You're a non-voter. Whether you say one thing, or the other, at the end of the day you did not do a single thing.

    The only outcome that should matter are the voters opinions, and it was clear that more voters opposed the nerf than for it.

    Don't like it? Then vote... AMURICA.

    But anyways, that isn't the case here for EnMasse, so whatever.

  • @Maljas said:
    Goes both ways. You can't just assume that the people who did not speak up agree with your terms either. The point is not to talk for the entire community.

    The problem is that feedback threads are there for community participation. If you don't give feedback when you're asked for it, your silent opinion becomes largely irrelevant.

    The voting analogy is apt.

  • MaljasMaljas Member
    edited June 2017

    Post got deleted somehow but to sum up:

    No reason for me to make a thread on a feedback forum about something that was decided before these notes were posted, especially when I have no problem with either outcome. There are others here like me. Vote analogy doesn't work because we aren't voting on anything, we are providing feedback for another's property.

  • @Indalacheon said:
    "Dear developers, I am ok with the game and I will play it."
    What a great feedback thread that would be.

    You've missed the point.

    People who are "just OK" with the game or people who don't particularly care about the outcome of a decision one way or the other are nonfactors because, well, they don't care one way or the other. Again - if you don't provide feedback when you're asked for it, there are only a few reasonable assumptions -

    -- You have a generally neutral view which doesn't warrant any vocal expression. In the context of actionable feedback, you become irrelevant.

    -- You have a strong opinion in one direction or the other but choose not to express it for whatever reason. If a change is then made which isn't to your satisfaction, you really have no room to complain. This isn't to say that anything would have been different if you had opened your mouth, but at least you'd be able to say you tried.

    -- You aren't aware that a feedback medium exists. Dunno. Pay more attention?

    In either case, the ultimate value of community feedback for a game really depends on the development studio - but it can certainly be a strong motivator for change. Staying quiet is fine so long as you understand what that means, in context. Staying quiet while expecting things to go your way and/or being upset when they don't, however, is something different.

  • tisnotmetisnotme Member
    edited June 2017

    @KoonCoon said:
    What about when the download will be available for people who uninstalled the game??? Didn't think of that one did you enmasse.

    hold on why is your stupidity their fault ??
    they've stated they tried to get the up date out sooner but couldn't so will be an hour before
    and have probably been rushing at this coz every one that winged "I need to play now"

  • i suppose I have to leave a comment (other wise I'm a non voter)
    I'm fine with it

  • @Indalacheon said:
    Thats the whole reason this debate began, you cannot claim "the majority of people disagree" when the actual majority of people are not vocal because they just dont feel compelled to leave feedback. They are fine with changes, if you are fine with the apple you ate from the store you dont go to the manager to tell him that.

    I figured at this stage of the Internet's development people would realize that when somebody says "the majority of people disagree", what they're actually saying is "the majority of vocal people disagree". That's a given. Of course nobody is going to presume to speak for the entirety of the non-vocal population. That would be absurd. The point is that the non-vocal population who don't care about the outcome of something simply don't matter when it comes to actionable feedback.

    Look - I didn't make the claim you're referring to. I have no real dog in this fight. Insane mode is about as easy as hard mode from my perspective so I don't care one way or the other about what difficulty I do my runs on. To that end, I've never personally left any feedback on this particular topic. Whether I have to do insane or hard, I'm fine with it. Thus, when it comes to feedback on this topic, I'm irrelevant. Not sure how much clearer I can make this.

    Yeah, if you're fine with the apple you bought from a store, you're probably not going to go to the manager and tell him that. Guess what though? If the store manager gets several hundred complaints about his apples, he's probably going to do something about it irrespective of the fact that there are thousands of other people who are OK with his apples and say nothing. Video games are a business just like anything else - developers use internal metrics, surveys, and focused community feedback to determine how to make their product more appealing to as many people as possible. Silence doesn't help this process. Feedback does, so long as the developers are capable of separating the wheat from the chaff.

    HTH

  • @EXRLJDACL3 said:

    @3G9D7FC34Y said:
    If hard mode and insane were both 6x and then they decided to improve insane to 8x everyone would be orgasming all over en masse, but just because the starting point of the exp balance that en masse decided on for cbt was a bit too much everyone is complaining.

    The primary issue with insane was not regarding the XP, it's about the rewards you get for doing them, which they clearly still have not addressed.

    Well now the reward for playing insane is better EXP, I think that's fine

  • Right, they are business and they know best to compare the numbers of players, the numbers of complaints, feedback overall.
    I usually stay silent as well but when you see thread after thread flooded with angry people claiming their complaints arent being heard even though they are "majority" I just thought I would try to put things into perspective for them. That there are a lot of people who are fine with the way things are.

  • @DAOWAce said:
    Minimal changes as expected; and disappointed as expected.

    Auction house is still going to be crap, pay to win is still going to be rampant; gold income is probably still going to be ridiculously slow early game, inability to sell gear and unwillingness to buy gear won't change..

    The economy feedback thread was pretty universal about the dislike of being unable to trade and using kred for the auction house. Why isn't this being changed?

    The progression & difficulty thread talked about how certain boss difficulty was absolutely ridiculous early game, especially for melee classes. Also talked about how there was -zero- reason to do insane other than to farm boss souls. The difficulty of bosses and their shield mechanic isn't changing and insane still has the same exp as before, with no extra gold or item droprate for the much higher health pools and damage of enemies. Insane is a time waste, and nerfing hard's exp to 6x still doesn't justify insane's waste of time, or risk of getting one shot; it just upsets people who don't group.

    How about the text changes a bunch of people, including myself, mentioned? Is crit chance still going to be erroneously referred to as "crit damage"? Will the names of yellow gear still be screwed up? Will skills still be completely lacking crucial information and outright WRONG in many instances? None of this was mentioned in the patch notes.

    Nothing about performance issues was mentioned. The insane freezing of the client when manipulating any UI window, the FPS drops when mousing over tooltips, the skipping/freezing when running around town, using skills, picking up items in battle, etc... Was this even looked at? Are we still going to have to suffer all these aggravating issues when trying to play?

    Wait, we're not going to be allowed to sell gear we find? The hell? I havn't heard of this, FeelsBadMan :(

    Also, I agree with the UI issue. I made a topic a few weeks ago but no reply from devs and I'm sure you have too. Especially when opening up the Inventory or Dismantle Window, there is a 500-1500ms delay freeze. It's the most annoying thing in the world and why it isn't being looked at is beyond me honestly.

  • Nothing about performance issues was mentioned. The insane freezing of the client when manipulating any UI window, the FPS drops when mousing over tooltips, the skipping/freezing when running around town, using skills, picking up items in battle, etc... Was this even looked at? Are we still going to have to suffer all these aggravating issues when trying to play?

    That's probably just your own computer problems.

    I tested this on friends i7 7700k pc. The freeze is still there when opening the UI panels. I just wanted to double check. I don't think it's a computer issue mate, it's definitely on their end. There shouldn't be any delay :(

  • @MakeC9GreatAgain said:

    @DAOWAce said:
    Minimal changes as expected; and disappointed as expected.

    Auction house is still going to be crap, pay to win is still going to be rampant; gold income is probably still going to be ridiculously slow early game, inability to sell gear and unwillingness to buy gear won't change..

    The economy feedback thread was pretty universal about the dislike of being unable to trade and using kred for the auction house. Why isn't this being changed?

    The progression & difficulty thread talked about how certain boss difficulty was absolutely ridiculous early game, especially for melee classes. Also talked about how there was -zero- reason to do insane other than to farm boss souls. The difficulty of bosses and their shield mechanic isn't changing and insane still has the same exp as before, with no extra gold or item droprate for the much higher health pools and damage of enemies. Insane is a time waste, and nerfing hard's exp to 6x still doesn't justify insane's waste of time, or risk of getting one shot; it just upsets people who don't group.

    How about the text changes a bunch of people, including myself, mentioned? Is crit chance still going to be erroneously referred to as "crit damage"? Will the names of yellow gear still be screwed up? Will skills still be completely lacking crucial information and outright WRONG in many instances? None of this was mentioned in the patch notes.

    Nothing about performance issues was mentioned. The insane freezing of the client when manipulating any UI window, the FPS drops when mousing over tooltips, the skipping/freezing when running around town, using skills, picking up items in battle, etc... Was this even looked at? Are we still going to have to suffer all these aggravating issues when trying to play?

    Wait, we're not going to be allowed to sell gear we find? The hell? I havn't heard of this, FeelsBadMan :(

    Also, I agree with the UI issue. I made a topic a few weeks ago but no reply from devs and I'm sure you have too. Especially when opening up the Inventory or Dismantle Window, there is a 500-1500ms delay freeze. It's the most annoying thing in the world and why it isn't being looked at is beyond me honestly.

    You can sell gear for kred, I dont know what that guy is talking about.

  • MazikeenMazikeen Member
    edited June 2017

    1 hour before it starts?? yall kidding me?? you wont open downloads before?? thats dumb...not everyone has part of the game allready installed

  • NatoriousNatorious Member, Pre-CBT Tester ✭✭✭

    Wait, we're not going to be allowed to sell gear we find? The hell? I havn't heard of this, FeelsBadMan :(

    Also, I agree with the UI issue. I made a topic a few weeks ago but no reply from devs and I'm sure you have too. Especially when opening up the Inventory or Dismantle Window, there is a 500-1500ms delay freeze. It's the most annoying thing in the world and why it isn't being looked at is beyond me honestly.

    Also you can sell gear to NPCs past lv 60 which will give you more Gold as before lv 60

  • Jam201984Jam201984 Member
    edited June 2017

    @DAOWAce said:
    Minimal changes as expected; and disappointed as expected.

    Auction house is still going to be crap, pay to win is still going to be rampant; gold income is probably still going to be ridiculously slow early game, inability to sell gear and unwillingness to buy gear won't change..

    The economy feedback thread was pretty universal about the dislike of being unable to trade and using kred for the auction house. Why isn't this being changed?

    The progression & difficulty thread talked about how certain boss difficulty was absolutely ridiculous early game, especially for melee classes. Also talked about how there was -zero- reason to do insane other than to farm boss souls. The difficulty of bosses and their shield mechanic isn't changing and insane still has the same exp as before, with no extra gold or item droprate for the much higher health pools and damage of enemies. Insane is a time waste, and nerfing hard's exp to 6x still doesn't justify insane's waste of time, or risk of getting one shot; it just upsets people who don't group.

    How about the text changes a bunch of people, including myself, mentioned? Is crit chance still going to be erroneously referred to as "crit damage"? Will the names of yellow gear still be screwed up? Will skills still be completely lacking crucial information and outright WRONG in many instances? None of this was mentioned in the patch notes.

    Nothing about performance issues was mentioned. The insane freezing of the client when manipulating any UI window, the FPS drops when mousing over tooltips, the skipping/freezing when running around town, using skills, picking up items in battle, etc... Was this even looked at? Are we still going to have to suffer all these aggravating issues when trying to play?

    And all this, without any new content, which is damn well in our data files. Still the only thing we're going to be able to do is rush to 65 then grind Starhenge ad nauseum like in closed beta.

    Thank you for increasing character slots, lowering costume prices and making badges bound to account, but I'm still extremely concerned about the game and the lack of real changes (and crucial fixes) made in this short amount of time between CBT/OBT. I would have rather there been a month break between betas with a great deal more changes.

    OBT is essentially a launched game (especially if you're taking money), so any time left to greatly change the game is pretty much gone.

    well said but don't forget the cash shop works fine :)

  • Also, I agree with the UI issue. I made a topic a few weeks ago but no reply from devs and I'm sure you have too. Especially when opening up the Inventory or Dismantle Window, there is a 500-1500ms delay freeze. It's the most annoying thing in the world and why it isn't being looked at is beyond me honestly.

    You can sell gear for kred, I dont know what that guy is talking about.

    I see, thanks I was like wtf!!

  • ExpedExped Member

    @AlexG2 said:

    @Exped said:
    Why isn't "Guild Notice" mentioned? We are unable to post anything because it doesn't save when clicking "Edit".

    The costume upgrade button has been removed temporarily.

    ** Does this mean we can't upgrade to purple avatars with purple sigils**?
    Unless bug fixs aren't mentioned...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    @AlexG2 said:

    @Exped said:
    Why isn't "Guild Notice" mentioned? We are unable to post anything because it doesn't save when clicking "Edit".

    The costume upgrade button has been removed temporarily.

    ** Does this mean we can't upgrade to purple avatars with purple sigils**?
    Unless bug fixs aren't mentioned...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    What's your problem ?

  • NopiNopi Member ✭✭✭

    Just.... keep giving your feedback. Those who do not give feedback don't have a point that can be used by EME to work with so they are just there being there and nothing else from a feedback standpoint. At most, the only statistic EME can get from people who don't give any feedback is sales figures, and that doesn't tell where the game needs a fix or not. It's just a figure that tells if people like the game enough to spend money on it. So yeah, if you really want to contribute to a change, leave your feedback. It's 2017 and people prefer to use voice chat for everything, but, typing something shouldn't be too difficult, so let's do that once in awhile. :)

  • @Smoreceror If i start on the EU server will i need to create another character for NA servers?

  • How did they go from only 7% reached 65 in cbt to people leveled up too fast?

  • @Vesporax said:
    How did they go from only 7% reached 65 in cbt to people leveled up too fast?

    cause they base this "leveling too fast" on the few that leveled to max level in 2 days...which is dumb IMO

  • BottyBotty Member

    personally I love the hard mode change, when I played CBT with my boyfriend he was all like "lets just do hard mode, its same exp as insane, no point in wasting time" while I really like challenges and to me insane mode was a lot of fun. Now he is willing to do insane with me all the way through so I'll take it :D

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