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Ingame DPS meeter ?

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Comments

  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Yithar wrote: »
    Haloist wrote: »
    If you're playing either tank and healer and think that doing your job equates to carrying the dps, then I have no idea why (unless you're really that egoistic) you're even playing MMOs which feature the holy trinity, since it's obviously not your cup of tea.

    Doing my job doesn't equate to carrying. Doing my job and doing 2-3x their DPS and mechanics with Smoke Flanker (i.e. their job) is carrying.

    Sorry, but what? I wasn't even replying to your post, and using the quote from that post out of context is obviously going to make me look like I don't support your argument, which I do.
  • YitharYithar ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Haloist wrote: »
    Yithar wrote: »
    Haloist wrote: »
    If you're playing either tank and healer and think that doing your job equates to carrying the dps, then I have no idea why (unless you're really that egoistic) you're even playing MMOs which feature the holy trinity, since it's obviously not your cup of tea.

    Doing my job doesn't equate to carrying. Doing my job and doing 2-3x their DPS and mechanics with Smoke Flanker (i.e. their job) is carrying.

    Sorry, but what? I wasn't even replying to your post, and using the quote from that post out of context is obviously going to make me look like I don't support your argument, which I do.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to make it look that way. I just wanted to point that out is all, not specifically at you though.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haloist wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    DGDM7ALXHM wrote: »
    Consider this scenario:
    You are the leader of an HH raid (which has shield phases that will cause the entire raid to wipe) and you love every single person that is in your raid. If 2 groups break the shield phase and 2 don't consistently what do you do? Without a dps meter you won't be able to tell who in the two groups that break can swap with people in the groups that don't break. It can help you spread the dps evenly. Without a meter you just flip flop everyone everywhere and just hope that it'll work.
    What is the solution to this without a meter?

    Playing as it has been done since the old times, most of people on HH that aim to clear the dungeon knows each other or at least knows howwell they play and do their rol. Before the "damage meter" era people give feedback about what could be done. Now that kind of interaction is over, is killed, the dps meter tell you someone is doing poor dps but then again, without the feedback of others how can you know if that lack of dps was something that can be rised with the same groups without moving players?

    You still keep talking as if the damage meter tells you if everything is dps and nothing in the game has mechanics.

    Sorry but your point is generalising that EVERYONE who uses dps meters WILL judge someone based on the numbers shown on the meter, WITHOUT asking for their feedback.
    How can you guys claim that removing the DPS meters will do more good, when you cannot even put your biased opinions aside to better discuss things with us DPS meter supporters?

    I think that you haven't read all my post about how i feel about dps meters and becuase i asumed so i apologyze, I am not against dps meters but I am in favor to enforce more severe sanctions to those who use them to harrass others.

    I even told on other threads that I am in favor to have a personal dps meter built in game.

    Sorry if i have confused you with my post, I am trying to enphasize that comunication > dps meter, following mechs > dps meters, teamwork > dps meter, however there are several individuals that don't agree with that.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Haloist wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    DGDM7ALXHM wrote: »
    Consider this scenario:
    You are the leader of an HH raid (which has shield phases that will cause the entire raid to wipe) and you love every single person that is in your raid. If 2 groups break the shield phase and 2 don't consistently what do you do? Without a dps meter you won't be able to tell who in the two groups that break can swap with people in the groups that don't break. It can help you spread the dps evenly. Without a meter you just flip flop everyone everywhere and just hope that it'll work.
    What is the solution to this without a meter?

    Playing as it has been done since the old times, most of people on HH that aim to clear the dungeon knows each other or at least knows howwell they play and do their rol. Before the "damage meter" era people give feedback about what could be done. Now that kind of interaction is over, is killed, the dps meter tell you someone is doing poor dps but then again, without the feedback of others how can you know if that lack of dps was something that can be rised with the same groups without moving players?

    You still keep talking as if the damage meter tells you if everything is dps and nothing in the game has mechanics.

    Sorry but your point is generalising that EVERYONE who uses dps meters WILL judge someone based on the numbers shown on the meter, WITHOUT asking for their feedback.
    How can you guys claim that removing the DPS meters will do more good, when you cannot even put your biased opinions aside to better discuss things with us DPS meter supporters?

    I think that you haven't read all my post about how i feel about dps meters and becuase i asumed so i apologyze, I am not against dps meters but I am in favor to enforce more severe sanctions to those who use them to harrass others.

    I even told on other threads that I am in favor to have a personal dps meter built in game.

    Sorry if i have confused you with my post, I am trying to enphasize that comunication > dps meter, following mechs > dps meters, teamwork > dps meter, however there are several individuals that don't agree with that.

    Indeed I haven't, but for the sake of a better understood discussion, it would be wise to word your responses carefully. This topic is already very sensitive, and adding more misinterpreted tension to it isn't going to help. Thanks for understanding.
  • ElinUsagi wrote: »
    DGDM7ALXHM wrote: »
    Consider this scenario:
    You are the leader of an HH raid (which has shield phases that will cause the entire raid to wipe) and you love every single person that is in your raid. If 2 groups break the shield phase and 2 don't consistently what do you do? Without a dps meter you won't be able to tell who in the two groups that break can swap with people in the groups that don't break. It can help you spread the dps evenly. Without a meter you just flip flop everyone everywhere and just hope that it'll work.
    What is the solution to this without a meter?

    Playing as it has been done since the old times, most of people on HH that aim to clear the dungeon knows each other or at least knows howwell they play and do their rol. Before the "damage meter" era people give feedback about what could be done. Now that kind of interaction is over, is killed, the dps meter tell you someone is doing poor dps but then again, without the feedback of others how can you know if that lack of dps was something that can be rised with the same groups without moving players?

    You still keep talking as if the damage meter tells you if everything is dps and nothing in the game has mechanics.

    What you said made absolutely no sense? Can you please explain it better?

    What does meter have anything to do with people following mechanics or communication? It's not like everyone is staring at their meters the entire boss fight. People generally look at meter inbetween mechanics, after each pull/wipe, or after they clear to see what went wrong and what could go better. Having good communication and knowing mechanics should be presumed. But just because you know mechanics doesn't mean you can do good damage. The meter is supplementary tool and a QoL change that is there to help.

    And in regards to your part of about dps harassment, that's something that very rarely happens. GMs in the past have allowed the use of meter as long as it wasn't used for shaming others, so how is it any different now? I don't know what you mean by "enforcing more severe sanctions" when there are already sanctions in place.
  • ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Playing as it has been done since the old times, most of people on HH that aim to clear the dungeon knows each other or at least knows howwell they play and do their rol. Before the "damage meter" era people give feedback about what could be done. Now that kind of interaction is over, is killed, the dps meter tell you someone is doing poor dps but then again, without the feedback of others how can you know if that lack of dps was something that can be rised with the same groups without moving players?

    You still keep talking as if the damage meter tells you if everything is dps and nothing in the game has mechanics.

    I had people that couldn't even place hakans away from other people or aim lasers away from other parties in P1. A good chunk of the raids I was in didn't even group for cleanse for the bleed debuff. People couldn't even live long enough to stay off the floor for 10-15 seconds.

    People were yelling to be ressed so fast, healers were having a hard time keep up because people were constantly dying in pairs. If you're telling me that everyone that WANTS to clear are supposedly super competent, man, I must have been in the wrong raids because this was most the raids I've been in.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minazuki wrote: »
    The one that I said lead to boss turn and aoe wipe raid is cause someone care about his [filtered] DPS and taken buff that suppose tank needed to have. Just cause he want to looks more better on the raid DPS meter!!!

    Let me explain how HH works, sweetheart. You don't "take" the aggro debuff. You get the aggro. The way it's designed, flat out stealing aggro with dps is virtually impossible. However, if a tank(or, more likely, multiple tanks) dies at a bad time or you draw the short stick during hakans, you get aggro. that damage dealer wasn't doing anything wrong, he was simply doing his job and the tanks messed up.
    Nathynn wrote: »
    To those that think a DPS meter will tell them who is being "carried",

    I play tanks and healers. I play them because the role of tank or healer is more important then any other role in a group. Why can't the developers come out with a dungeon where damage dealers are not needed. I am tired of having to carry these damage dealers through the dungeons that are available. I do not like to have to babysit the boss and turn them in a specific direction so these macro consumed, damage meter needing children can do what they were designed to do. I am tired of having to resurrect that damage dealer after they eat a mechanic in hopes of getting just a little bit more out of their precious meter. Do the Tera community a favor and release a dungeon where if you aren't a tank or a healer the boss 1 shots you where you stand no matter where you are and deletes your character permanently.

    Let me explain the term "carry" to you, sweetheart.
    As a healer, you are considered to be carrying a party when the rest of are taking all the damage and dying all the time but you somehow manage to bring them up and keep the up long enough to complete the dungeon. Simply healing people doesn't qualify you.
    As a tank, you are carrying a party when you are doing above average dps while also being able to survive without heals for prolonged periods of time(aka, the rest of the party is bad).
    As a damage dealer, you are carrying a party when the rest of the damage dealers(and tank) are not pulling enough dps to pass dps checks. Let's say you need to do 1.5mil/sec to finish a boss before enrage phase. If you are doing 1mil/sec and the other 2 damage dealers are doing 500k/sec each, you are not carrying them(because 500k/sec is their share of the damage they need to do, you doing more doesn't change that). If you are doing 1.3mil/sec and they are doing 100k/sec each, then you are carrying them.
    SageWindu wrote: »
    Okay... so... the implication that I'm getting from most statements is that people can have hard numbers to justify if someone is underperforming, and thus can weed out the undesirables. And that's it. Sure, some people bring up how the raw numbers can give clues about one's (ahem) playstyle, but DPS meters won't be able to show that outright(?); everyone here knows this (or so I'd like to believe).

    The dps meter doesn't just show raw numbers. It shows you crit chances, skills used(I think even the rotation, not sure, never cared enough to look at all the things), death time, buff/debuff uptimes, damage taken. It produces a very detailed breakdown of the fight one can turn to if the basic numbers seem odd.
    Also, do you believe honestly that the average player (<- key words) would have the forethought to ask about the anything like, for example, optimal gear rolls and crystal and glyph loadouts if they were presented with the data provided by a DPS meter? Let's be real - I think we all know the answer to that. Heck, people are still asking for guides on classes and dungeons despite Essential Mana being around for at least a year (though having now said that, I realize that presents its own problem, being that the site isn't as widespread as it probably should be).

    I believe the average player will definitely not go looking for guides if they have no reason to believe they are doing poorly. Once they are shown the reality of their performance, they might or might not try to improve. I like to think they would try because people being knowingly bad is not something I want to accept.
    Statement: Now, that being said, if it turns out that you are in fact going out of your way to offer advice to and help out the so-called underperforming player and they then rebuff you for it (unless you thought it was a good idea to be an [filtered] about it, in which case what did you expect would happen?), then you and I have no argument. They are a scrub of the highest caliber, and as the phrase goes: you can't fix stupid.

    Most people capable of offering advice are generally nice about it and to others. It takes a provocation of some sort to get a true elite player into a mean mood as most, when they pug, enter expecting the rest to be bad. So they are unlikely to lose their tempter just because the party is bad. When you offer advice to people who didn't ask, they tend to react in a negative way. They have no reason to believe they are doing something wrong, they have no reason to believe you actually do know better and they perceive it as, mmmm, meddling, I guess. Or maybe they were fed this "elitist" crap and think everyone who offers them a tip is out to get them. I've always find the topic of elitists and newbies so very entertaining as everyone focuses on the elitists and nobody ever think of what those newbies are doing.
  • DPS Meter injects/hook itself into Tera. That in itself is a hack, period. Doesn't matter how helpful it is, or what you think. It needs to be banned because it's classification IS A HACK.

    If there was a DPS Meter that doesn't hook into Tera and was able to read the damage output by simply chat, that's another story. But atm, DPS Meter is just a hacking program and it needs to be shut down, period. Unless Tera implement their own Damage Meter that doesn't include other players statistics, but your own.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Thanks for not answering my question. I answered every single one of yours and yet you couldn't answer a simple "how do you know you need to improve if you don't know you are doing a bad job". *slow clap*

    because it's OBVIOUS when you're doing a bad job...it was a stupid easily answered pretty much rhetorical question which is WHY i ignored it kid. you know...since there are PLENTY of players who ALREADY do that and have already DONE it without meters.

    so once again you have nothing...going to KEEP TRYING? and FAILING?
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Thanks for not answering my question. I answered every single one of yours and yet you couldn't answer a simple "how do you know you need to improve if you don't know you are doing a bad job". *slow clap*

    because it's OBVIOUS when you're doing a bad job...it was a stupid easily answered pretty much rhetorical question which is WHY i ignored it kid. you know...since there are PLENTY of players who ALREADY do that and have already DONE it without meters.

    so once again you have nothing...going to KEEP TRYING? and FAILING?

    Oh, I see. there are no good and bad players, no veterans and newbies. So, every time somebody does somehting wrong,I should just kick them because they are obviously aware of it and doing it in purpose. Next time somebody asks me a question, I'll ignore them because they clearly know the answer. Thanks for making my life easier.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Thanks for not answering my question. I answered every single one of yours and yet you couldn't answer a simple "how do you know you need to improve if you don't know you are doing a bad job". *slow clap*

    because it's OBVIOUS when you're doing a bad job...it was a stupid easily answered pretty much rhetorical question which is WHY i ignored it kid. you know...since there are PLENTY of players who ALREADY do that and have already DONE it without meters.

    so once again you have nothing...going to KEEP TRYING? and FAILING?

    Oh, I see. there are no good and bad players, no veterans and newbies. So, every time somebody does somehting wrong,I should just kick them because they are obviously aware of it and doing it in purpose. Next time somebody asks me a question, I'll ignore them because they clearly know the answer. Thanks for making my life easier.

    now a strawman? rofl. i never ONCE said anything baout kicking players as an answer now did i? what have i said consistently? why GUIDANCE...but now, somehow you choose to kick. well hey, that's YOU'RE choice, not mine. fact is a meter isn't going to help someone if they don't know what they're doing wrong...guidance DOES.

    going to try again? this time without logical fallacies i hope...but really, you have nothing. a player learning the game, using guides, getting guidance is the answer, not a 3rd party program that does nothing but tell you damage. give a newb a dps meter and no guidance and then take another newb and give them guidance with no meter...which do you think will be more effective? rhetorical question since the answer is obvious which is why you shouldn't have tried to defend having a meter in the first place.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Thanks for not answering my question. I answered every single one of yours and yet you couldn't answer a simple "how do you know you need to improve if you don't know you are doing a bad job". *slow clap*

    because it's OBVIOUS when you're doing a bad job...it was a stupid easily answered pretty much rhetorical question which is WHY i ignored it kid. you know...since there are PLENTY of players who ALREADY do that and have already DONE it without meters.

    so once again you have nothing...going to KEEP TRYING? and FAILING?

    Oh, I see. there are no good and bad players, no veterans and newbies. So, every time somebody does somehting wrong,I should just kick them because they are obviously aware of it and doing it in purpose. Next time somebody asks me a question, I'll ignore them because they clearly know the answer. Thanks for making my life easier.

    now a strawman? rofl. i never ONCE said anything baout kicking players as an answer now did i? what have i said consistently? why GUIDANCE...but now, somehow you choose to kick. well hey, that's YOU'RE choice, not mine. fact is a meter isn't going to help someone if they don't know what they're doing wrong...guidance DOES.

    going to try again? this time without logical fallacies i hope...but really, you have nothing. a player learning the game, using guides, getting guidance is the answer, not a 3rd party program that does nothing but tell you damage. give a newb a dps meter and no guidance and then take another newb and give them guidance with no meter...which do you think will be more effective? rhetorical question since the answer is obvious which is why you shouldn't have tried to defend having a meter in the first place.

    If everyone knows when they are doing something wrong, why would they need guidance exactly? They know what the problem is thus they can solve it. And if they are not solving it, that means they don't want to, right? that's -exactly- what you've been saying. People don't need ot be told when they are doing it wrong because they already know it.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guys let's start posting memes here! This thread is not fun anymore to be fair... I mean the mud fight has it's appeal for a while but then it goes on and on.... may as well just offtopic the whole deal if we're gonna go with a mud fight.
  • I don't think personal stats, like dps, damage taken, and whatnot are too much to ask. Especially when there is interest in it for all tera regions. Fear of the call out certainly shouldn't be minimized, but people already do that now with gear eval (or just crystals if its pvp) and deaths. They could also do a number of things to prevent misuse, like limiting info of other party members in ims, only making the tool available for guild groups, or a host of other things.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Thanks for not answering my question. I answered every single one of yours and yet you couldn't answer a simple "how do you know you need to improve if you don't know you are doing a bad job". *slow clap*

    because it's OBVIOUS when you're doing a bad job...it was a stupid easily answered pretty much rhetorical question which is WHY i ignored it kid. you know...since there are PLENTY of players who ALREADY do that and have already DONE it without meters.

    so once again you have nothing...going to KEEP TRYING? and FAILING?

    Oh, I see. there are no good and bad players, no veterans and newbies. So, every time somebody does somehting wrong,I should just kick them because they are obviously aware of it and doing it in purpose. Next time somebody asks me a question, I'll ignore them because they clearly know the answer. Thanks for making my life easier.

    now a strawman? rofl. i never ONCE said anything baout kicking players as an answer now did i? what have i said consistently? why GUIDANCE...but now, somehow you choose to kick. well hey, that's YOU'RE choice, not mine. fact is a meter isn't going to help someone if they don't know what they're doing wrong...guidance DOES.

    going to try again? this time without logical fallacies i hope...but really, you have nothing. a player learning the game, using guides, getting guidance is the answer, not a 3rd party program that does nothing but tell you damage. give a newb a dps meter and no guidance and then take another newb and give them guidance with no meter...which do you think will be more effective? rhetorical question since the answer is obvious which is why you shouldn't have tried to defend having a meter in the first place.

    If everyone knows when they are doing something wrong, why would they need guidance exactly? They know what the problem is thus they can solve it. And if they are not solving it, that means they don't want to, right? that's -exactly- what you've been saying. People don't need ot be told when they are doing it wrong because they already know it.

    i said no more strawmen...and you throw out more strawmen. listen kid, don't try and INTERPRET what i say to suit your agenda. no where have i said that everyone KNOWS what they're doing wrong, but the fact is...you KNOW you're screwing up when you can't kill or your damage output is stupidly low. if you CAN'T figure that out than a damage meter isn't going to help AT ALL. you know...because it CAN'T tell you what you're doing wrong.

    why don't you just stop trying? i'm starting to feel embarrassed FOR you. it was nice at first since you've been a great foil to illustrate how useless a meter is...but this is just getting sad. another point of fact, i see people in global and area ask questions about why they die, why can't they kill faster, and help them. they see examples of good play all around and it's rather simple to infer that you're doing something wrong when someone just blows away something you were having trouble with ESPECIALLY in this game. you keep assuming that people are bad because they want to be bad...YOUR WORDS. or that their to stupid to compare and figure out that they're doing something wrong which is perhaps .1% of players.

    the only players that TRULY TRY to play badly are trolls...and even they aren't bad players as it's entirely intentional. dps meter is useless, verboten, and unnecessary. 3rd party app that serves zero purpose except to braggarts and elitists. been firmly established what IS useful...guidance. which won't get you banned, doesn't require installation...except into your brain and can ACTUALLY IMPROVE how you play. instead of displaying a useless number.

    give it up.
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