[TERA PC & Console] En Masse is closing, but TERA lives on! We will continue to support TERA PC (NA) and TERA Console until services are transferred. Our Service Moving Info page is now live here: https://bit.ly/tera_service_moving

Ingame DPS meeter ?

1568101113

Comments

  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Minazuki wrote: »
    Haloist wrote: »
    This is why I cannot understand why some players are giving so much unjustified hate to DPS meters. I know that there have been players getting bullied with DPS meters (exact numbers though, no one knows, which makes it even more unconvincing), but having 1 downside doesn't immediately make a tool bad altogether.

    The reason that why you cannot understand why some players are giving so much hate to DPS meter is cause you just haven't experience what they experienced.

    Progression raid/run
    40m/25m raid
    There 2 kinds of raider. One is for the party, one is for themselves.
    Someone lower their DPS to pick up boss fight mechanics that need to take care of.
    Someone ignore the mechanics just to do more DPS, even taken the buff that suppose tank only to build more aggro/DPS, so it end up over aggro and boss turned 1 AOE wipe the raid.
    There more but I lazy to type it.

    Why you guy only see the bad side of DPS meter?
    THEN
    Why you guy only see the good side of DPS meter?

    Problem with your scenario is that you have in no way shown how having the DPS meter resulted in anything bad.
    Sure, the guys with the large e-peen can ignore adds etc., but in such a large raid, would a sane person really care about how much damage 1/2 individuals are doing?
    Moreover, I would expect that in such large raids, boss mechanics would have been sorted out before the raid started, like who to do what and when, so again, DPS meter shouldn't concern anyone in this regard.
    Also, if the raid failed due to someone messing up non-"dps check" mechanics leading to an AOE wipe, are you sure the raid would be more concerned about dps than finding out what went wrong? Again, illogical counterargument.
    Not to mention, TERA only has 1 such large scale raid, which is HH, and it's mostly for top-geared/skilled players, so I shouldn't be reasonably expected to have experienced what other players have experienced from other games. Context is key, my friend.

    So to make it clear, I'm speaking in terms of 5-10 man dungeons, and any number more than that is considered a large scale raid like HH, which have their own mechanics that have mostly nothing to do with dps (aside from dps checks).
    I do mostly dungeons in TERA, very few pvp, and not done any HH, but I can still assure you that I understand that dps drops when dps stop hitting the boss to do boss mechanics. It is very obvious since if you're a dps, you would be together with the other dps hitting the boss from behind. Therefore, I would understand how some players feel when they see other dps skipping boss mechanics to do more damage, just not in the large scale raid sense like you mentioned. However, bringing this up is irrelevant since I have stated before that we do not know how many people have been bullied because they do slightly worse dps just because they went to do boss mechanics. I would assume it's a small handful since I've experienced none myself, so all the more it's insignificant to my argument.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    How does that contradict the 'newbies need a chance'? Obviously newbies aren't going to perform optimally, so they do need a chance (or a few).

    But yes, there are plenty of people who are bad and don't care, who want to be carried. People who want to improve do so even without a meter.

    "Everyone can figure out if they are performing at an optimal level or not" vs " Newbies just don't know and need help". If somebody is udnerperforming it could either be that they are new and just don't know they are underperforming or they are aware of it and just don't care to improve. Now, his statement makes the first part an impossible assumption as everyone is aware of how they are performing. In which case that gunner standing behind the tank, he's not clueless, he's doing it on purpose. Why should i gave a chance to anyone who's deliberately being bad?
    DeadX wrote: »
    lol "why are so many doing 1/10 the dps" well it's not because they don't have dps meters. point of fact you and the rest seem to keep forgetting is that DPS meters weren't around for tera at the start. what you say? was everyone doing only 1/10 of the damage? with TOUGHER BAMS AND BOSSES? why no they were NOT. blows that BS out of the water. care to try again?

    I saw the first dps meter around CBT time(maybe up to the first month of tera's western release). I don't know what you consider "the start" but I think that'd count. And back in the good old days, dps check fails were a lot more common since the dps meters were reserved for the select few who had access(or created their own). The rest of the plebs had to guess who was the reason kaprima went berserk for the 5th time in a roll. It also mattered less since dungeons had 6h cooldowns so it's not like you had much to do the rest of the time anyway. But, yeah, considering I've seen plenty of dps check fails, I'll go ahead and say, yup, a lot of people were doing less than what they could've been doing and very few were aware of it.

    PS: At some point asking sorcs to swap to poundings became a thing because people believed sorcs don't crit enough to make a backcrit build work. As in, the chance of your backcrit sorc being kicked from a party that was failing a dps check was rather high(assuming you decided to stick to your build).
    And one of the biggest things back then was calling the TN endurance glyph "useless". The endurance decrease and chance to apply weren't worth it. But, yeah, back then everyone was pro and stuff. True story.

    and? point of FACT, k-tera had a dps meter and it wasn't ported nor widely used in NA tera for over a YEAR after launch...in CB? rofl. i was in CB. fyi, the old forums are still around too so yeah, you can see the entire timeline of the meter. you STILL haven't answered on damn question...because you CAN'T. you're only 'point' thus far is "it's out so lets use it for...' and then your point outright DIES.

    tell me how it tells you how to position your character?
    tell me how it tells you what rotations to use?
    what crystals?
    what timings?
    what gear rolls?
    what gear in general?

    you can't because it doesn't.

    lol sorc backcrit build? any build based on backcrits was viable...dunno what build forums you were looking at...the only NON backcrit build was for primarily SOLO players. as to your 'less damage' BS...which is what it is, you played with some lousy players then. and a DPS meter wouldn't have helped them at ALL...since you know it doesn't do a damn thing but show damage. see above. so kindly STOP trying to claim it can help, players learning the class, learning builds or copying them, learning rotations and playing classes they're comfortable with. this game is more of a /fighterbrawler than a classic style mmo...care to argue that? as there is no point in using dps meters in fighters, there's no point in using one in tera.

    except to brag.
  • no idea why this discussion is still here

    just like some of you truly think dps meter is helpful, the company and at least 50% of the players do not agree

    definitely wont be implemented.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    DeadX wrote: »
    tell me how it tells you how to position your character?

    Your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check what they are doing differently -> You find out about positioning.
    tell me how it tells you what rotations to use?

    Your dps is lower than that of other players -> You compare the skills you used to the skills they used -> You notice a difference -> You ask them how come -> You learn a better rotation
    what crystals?

    Your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check their gear -> You notice different crystals -> (You ask why) -> You learn about crystals.
    what timings?

    Define timings?
    what gear rolls?

    You notice your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check their gear -> You see they have different rolls -> You learn about gear rolls.
    what gear in general?

    If you need help to figure out what gear to use in a game this straight-forward, you are beyond help.
    you can't because it doesn't.

    I just did. now you answer me this: How do you learn all those things if you have no idea that you are udnerperforming? If you are sitting there, with the crystals you got from the game/saw on the welcome screen, with your recommended glyph set-up, with your random compilation of yellow stat rolls, breaking your spacebar with the recommended chains, standing in that spot that doesn't seem to get any red circles...how do you know you are doing something wrong when you are doing exactly what the game tells you to do?
    lol sorc backcrit build? any build based on backcrits was viable...dunno what build forums you were looking at...the only NON backcrit build was for primarily SOLO players. as to your 'less damage' BS...which is what it is, you played with some lousy players then. and a DPS meter wouldn't have helped them at ALL...since you know it doesn't do a [filtered] thing but show damage. see above. so kindly STOP trying to claim it can help, players learning the class, learning builds or copying them, learning rotations and playing classes they're comfortable with. this game is more of a /fighterbrawler than a classic style mmo...care to argue that? as there is no point in using dps meters in fighters, there's no point in using one in tera.

    except to brag.

    I wasn't looking at forums, I was looking inside the game. And, yeah, there were a lot of lousy players with opinions back then. Not sure why contradicting your own argument(that before dps meters were wide-spread everyone was superpro) helps your case, but, hey, who am I to question your decisions.
    Did you know that a lot of people are too lazy to look up guides on the internet? A dps meter is an in-your-face " you are doing it wrong" statement that can at least tell those people they need to go and look for those guides, learn those things. But you'd rather they never figure out that they are actually bad, huh. and that's the point you are missing. You don't need a dps meter to tell you how you are doing. Great, neither do I. But a lot of people do need it. If they didn't, we wouldn't be seeing so many people with all the wrong things. Unless your argument is that people who do 100k/sec in SS NM and LK Nm are aware they are playing badly but do so by choice and not because they simply don't know any better. If that's the case, I'll gladly take that free-kicks card you are offering and presume there are no unknowingly bad players and everyone who's bad is just a troll.

    PS: Is your next argument going to be "But dps meter doesn't make me coffee in the morning so it's useless"?
  • LYC14LYC14 ✭✭✭
    How about a compromise - with an official DPS meter than can only show your own character's DPS in the game? On top of that, there will not be a share or upload function to put it on Internet like current DPS meters, so that people can only use the DPS meter to compare their own DPS and see how they can improve, without knowning how others fare in the party.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Imo a DPS meter without other players' DPS won't help much. How are you going to learn if you have no one to compare to? The better compromise would be to show you your party's DPS, but disallow pasting or uploading.
  • KarmaTheAlligatorKarmaTheAlligator ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haloist wrote: »
    Imo a DPS meter without other players' DPS won't help much. How are you going to learn if you have no one to compare to? The better compromise would be to show you your party's DPS, but disallow pasting or uploading.

    I don't understand why people keep bringing up the 'not allowing pasting' or without knowing what others get... What's to stop you (or them) from manually typing the numbers in chat?
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Problem here is not the numbers. The said DPS meter gives skill usage statistics along with consumables etc, which is going to take forever to type into the chat. Not to mention, why would a complete stranger take their time to screenshot the statistics and post it onto an image hosting site just for you?

    Edit: did you honestly think I would argue so much for a DPS meter just for damage per second numbers?
  • KarmaTheAlligatorKarmaTheAlligator ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haloist wrote: »
    Problem here is not the numbers. The said DPS meter gives skill usage statistics along with consumables etc, which is going to take forever to type into the chat. Not to mention, why would a complete stranger take their time to screenshot the statistics and post it onto an image hosting site just for you?

    Edit: did you honestly think I would argue so much for a DPS meter just for damage per second numbers?

    I don't know you, so I don't assume anything. The one thing I know is that the damage per second is the thing most people bring up, not the other stats.
  • You should keep in mind : The need of a damage meter doesn't only stem from knowing which numbers you pull ( theorycrafting and e-peen stroking aside), it is also a measurement to keep the underperformers out of content they are not willing to pull their weight because the punishment for dying has been made non-existant.

    Older mmos have/had XP loss on death and even level downs, significant durability drop on gear that had a finite lifetime, costly stamina/constitution/vitality restoration and cast interruption by the slightest attacks (pre-castbar).

    Today? You pop a crystalbind and you're set, maybe even spending some cheap gold on the insta-rez Neo-resuscitation in case you do hit the ground. And when you do lose crystals in the fight, you probably got a bank tab full of them.

    Avatar Weapons, Stamina/Charm removal, progress steamlining and the lack of any consequences for dying made the players 'lazy' and unmotivated to improve themselves, therefore the need of a official meter arises to get conclusive data from a credible source in order to seek out these bad apples and get rid of them.

    After all, if everyone would perform good enough and like the class was designed to be, we wouldn't have this problem of requesting a official meter in the first place.
  • LYC14LYC14 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Well if one can't copy and paste the DPS statistics, then when people ask u for your DPS, you can always conjure a random number as your DPS without proof (unless they want screenshots, which probably won't happen unless HH)
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Haloist wrote: »
    Problem here is not the numbers. The said DPS meter gives skill usage statistics along with consumables etc, which is going to take forever to type into the chat. Not to mention, why would a complete stranger take their time to screenshot the statistics and post it onto an image hosting site just for you?

    Edit: did you honestly think I would argue so much for a DPS meter just for damage per second numbers?

    I don't know you, so I don't assume anything. The one thing I know is that the damage per second is the thing most people bring up, not the other stats.

    Well then it seems I've found out why some people give DPS meters such a bad rep. They think it just gives damage per second, when it provides more useful information than that.
    I just hope not everyone who's disagreeing with DPS meters thinks like this, cuz that would be the same as arguing against something that they don't have full knowledge of.
  • ppl who say the dps meeter does more bad then good are like the old conservators who never agreed on planes being public transport.... its like : "PPL will die from crashes!!! its going to be bad...." But in reality this happens in like 1% of the time.....
    same with the DPS meeter.... 99% of the time it will be usefull especially for endgame players(yes the ones that get bored after reaching max gear and eme is strugging to keep in game).... its just like a new way to improve urself over the endgame...

    Dps meeter dosent learn you:
    "
    how to position your character?
    what rotations to use?
    what crystals?
    what timings?
    what gear rolls?
    what gear in general? "
    BUT IT WILL MAKE U ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
    + the main utility for dpsmeeter is for players that already know this things..
    If ppl are not paying attention to their position/rotation/crystals/timing/gear ... DO YOU think they will give a [filtered] about the lil dpsmeeter in the corner? :)))
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    tell me how it tells you how to position your character?

    Your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check what they are doing differently -> You find out about positioning.
    tell me how it tells you what rotations to use?

    Your dps is lower than that of other players -> You compare the skills you used to the skills they used -> You notice a difference -> You ask them how come -> You learn a better rotation
    what crystals?

    Your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check their gear -> You notice different crystals -> (You ask why) -> You learn about crystals.
    what timings?

    Define timings?
    what gear rolls?

    You notice your dps is lower than that of other people -> You check their gear -> You see they have different rolls -> You learn about gear rolls.
    what gear in general?

    If you need help to figure out what gear to use in a game this straight-forward, you are beyond help.
    you can't because it doesn't.

    I just did. now you answer me this: How do you learn all those things if you have no idea that you are udnerperforming? If you are sitting there, with the crystals you got from the game/saw on the welcome screen, with your recommended glyph set-up, with your random compilation of yellow stat rolls, breaking your spacebar with the recommended chains, standing in that spot that doesn't seem to get any red circles...how do you know you are doing something wrong when you are doing exactly what the game tells you to do?
    lol sorc backcrit build? any build based on backcrits was viable...dunno what build forums you were looking at...the only NON backcrit build was for primarily SOLO players. as to your 'less damage' BS...which is what it is, you played with some lousy players then. and a DPS meter wouldn't have helped them at ALL...since you know it doesn't do a [filtered] thing but show damage. see above. so kindly STOP trying to claim it can help, players learning the class, learning builds or copying them, learning rotations and playing classes they're comfortable with. this game is more of a /fighterbrawler than a classic style mmo...care to argue that? as there is no point in using dps meters in fighters, there's no point in using one in tera.

    except to brag.

    I wasn't looking at forums, I was looking inside the game. And, yeah, there were a lot of lousy players with opinions back then. Not sure why contradicting your own argument(that before dps meters were wide-spread everyone was superpro) helps your case, but, hey, who am I to question your decisions.
    Did you know that a lot of people are too lazy to look up guides on the internet? A dps meter is an in-your-face " you are doing it wrong" statement that can at least tell those people they need to go and look for those guides, learn those things. But you'd rather they never figure out that they are actually bad, huh. and that's the point you are missing. You don't need a dps meter to tell you how you are doing. Great, neither do I. But a lot of people do need it. If they didn't, we wouldn't be seeing so many people with all the wrong things. Unless your argument is that people who do 100k/sec in SS NM and LK Nm are aware they are playing badly but do so by choice and not because they simply don't know any better. If that's the case, I'll gladly take that free-kicks card you are offering and presume there are no unknowingly bad players and everyone who's bad is just a troll.

    PS: Is your next argument going to be "But dps meter doesn't make me coffee in the morning so it's useless"?

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.
  • DeadX wrote: »

    thanks for proving my point...SEVERAL TIMES. it's ALL up to the player thinking. movement, gear, crystals, rotations...lol. meter provides nothing for any of that.

    further, did you know that more people want guides more than meters in this game? or guidance? since a meter can't help you with what you're doing wrong? rofl. want to try again? help me further prove my point that a meter is useless in this game? that EVERYTHING comes down to the player learning how to play their character? and that by your own argument...a dps meter doesn't help that AT ALL. this is what happens when you try to rationalize something you want without any actual basis in reality to back it up. it's a totally useless piece of software for this game except for elitests and braggarts.

    it can't tell you how to play better, a fact YOU yourself pointed out...lol. so...better to just learn how to play in the first place than installing a piece of software that does NOTHING to help you get better.

    Welll.... for of this problems there is Esential mana site..... WHICH is not ILEGAL..... :)
    so all i want to clear is that DPS meeter is meant for ppl that ALREADY know all of this stuff......
    as i said in my last post... dps meeter is not going to hurt the ppl that dont know this things anyway...
Sign In or Register to comment.