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The 3rd Party Thread

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Comments

  • Yamazuki wrote: »
    A more appropriate real world example would be juicing to get a competitive edge, which is not even allowed in most cases (illegal) and looked down upon as well. Having higher ping is not something a person can control other than moving closer, no different than you can't control the physical limitations of your body. In either situation you shouldn't use enhancements. Also, the logic being used to justify the "harmless" side of the program can be used to justify flat out cheating in other games. As humans age they get slow and essentially adds ping to your actions (This is why the majority of pro players are younger). This means if you're in your late 20s and above you should be allowed to script because it's not fair anyone younger is faster by design.
    Couldn't have gave a more accurate analogy, Yamazuki. I express my opinion a little bit earlier in the thread with @Yithar . I feel bad that you have people such as @Wolf315 attacking you rather responding to your well thought-out argument (I also remember you from VM1 on Rainicorns stream was it?) It's sad even with your analogy that people don't understand that using third-party programs in a game that specifically tells you that it will lead to a ban are surprised that they will get banned(most if not all online games.) I'd like to quote my conversation with @Yithar again so people may read over it.

    Yamazuki's example is nothing like how it actually is. There are classes that become unplayable above a certain ping. Ping really becomes an essential need for players. It's nothing like doping at all. Spacecats is recommending "high ping glyph builds" , clearly showing that he really has no idea how to play this game. Yes, let's just not use Burst Fire or Fire Avalanche at all, despite both of those skills being the highest dps move in their respective classes.

    I think it's stupid that EME after a whole year is still incapable of addressing their terrible server or routing issues. I get to 20 ping to NA league servers and anywhere from 40 - 60, with daily spikes to 300+ to Tera servers, despite both being located in the same city. I can't imagine how [filtered] it gets for people that live across the country like @Idi0ticGenius. Whenever Riot servers is experiencing issues, they immediately take call to actions, actively make community posts on their dev pages. Meanwhile EME can't even admit that they're having server issues and continuously blame it on player ISPs. A third of the time I spend in HH is wiping thanks to lag spikes.


  • Regarding this matter what I have to say is the following, there is no denying that the "ping" factor in Tera is essential and yes even if without intending players closer to the server has advantage over who plays farther , If there is a tool that matches both sides, why prohibit use? I'm not talking to let everyone do what you want, no, but weigh a little and think what can be better, and even add that to you, the tool exists, is there and everyone can use it, this does not harm any Player, nor the game and especially the company, is just a tool to make the game experience as possible, TERA is one of the best MMO's I've ever played, if not the best, but since anything made by man has its faults, But it can not be absolute, why not receive outside help? As I said what has to be done and regret, there has to be a middle ground not just use what you want. Anyway, this is my opinion, I hope you respect.

    @Spacecats
  • Ves1978Ves1978 ✭✭✭✭
    MW54WC5MC9 wrote: »
    @Idi0ticGenius

    You must be one of those TMD that sells hack tools on MT servee right?

    That kind of example do not fits at all in the game.

    Players are bound for rules from EME and when many of them cheat non-stop it is obvious the honest people that never used then will get mad.

    Rules are meant to be followed, if you break the law then face the consecuence.

    #Bantothecheaters

    #Bantothehackdevs

    #Bantothosewhousetheirhacks

    the fact that Spacecats started this thread means they think outside of the box and are aware of the fact that banning every single player who uses 3rd party program would probably mean end of NA TERA. yes, rules are meant to be followed, but rules can change you know, just like country can change the law. i agree cheaters should be banned, but it must be clear what is considered as cheating. using program that allows you playing under same conditions as person with 20 ping is one thing, using program to exploit the game and make profit out of it is something completely different.
  • Ves1978 wrote: »
    MW54WC5MC9 wrote: »
    @Idi0ticGenius

    You must be one of those TMD that sells hack tools on MT servee right?

    That kind of example do not fits at all in the game.

    Players are bound for rules from EME and when many of them cheat non-stop it is obvious the honest people that never used then will get mad.

    Rules are meant to be followed, if you break the law then face the consecuence.

    #Bantothecheaters

    #Bantothehackdevs

    #Bantothosewhousetheirhacks

    the fact that Spacecats started this thread means they think outside of the box and are aware of the fact that banning every single player who uses 3rd party program would probably mean end of NA TERA. yes, rules are meant to be followed, but rules can change you know, just like country can change the law. i agree cheaters should be banned, but it must be clear what is considered as cheating. using program that allows you playing under same conditions as person with 20 ping is one thing, using program to exploit the game and make profit out of it is something completely different.

    Exactly!!!
  • Idi0ticGeniusIdi0ticGenius ✭✭✭✭✭
    First of all, "one of those TMD that sells hack tools on MT server."...
    I do not play on MT, nor I have any skills to create such tool. Many others on this community can prove this, as my best coding ability is clear when you look at how Essential Mana's Masterwork Calculator is built.
    You are welcome to assume so, but since you don't know who I am, I suggest-- no, encourage you not to do so. If you do a bit of search up, you can see exactly who I am, and I'm very open about it because I am confident that I have done nothing wrong in the past, and I have decent, if any, reputation from the community, as well as from Spacecats, whom I've contacted personally several times to discuss on few things privately.

    If this example does not fall to the game, you clearly lack the ability to make connections in something we call "analogy". And I know that my analogy forced the crippled and the inventors to have more advantage in taking reader's sympathy, but my point still stands. It does not have to be exactly same thing, but give out a similar situation to give a better view in different aspect in a much broader view. While my analogy does not represent the issue we have right now, it does explain why people are upset. I've given out guideline to how to think about this issue, and you've simply aborted this because "oh game is a game, and rules are rules".

    If you continuously deny that this example does not fit, you are simply narrow-minded that even your vision has gone beyond narrow to a single subject called "rules" to the point where you are blinded by your own stand point. Wake up, look around, be open for others opinions, and try to understand what others have to say. At least, this is what EME is trying to do after seeing how this quickly became an issue and community members like you, are not. At least try to understand what steps EME is trying to approach too.

    If you still deny that I'm in the wrong, then please, elaborate on giving a solution that can work out for multiple parties, whether it is the company, community, hackers, or neutral beings as myself. See how difficult this is? This is where EME is standing, and you are not.

    You talk about rules and these "honest people", but face it, no one follows rules 24/7 including "honest people". People will eventually reach out to anything that gives benefits, it's HUMAN to be that way. These developers knew about the risks, but they took that very risk as sacrifice at the worst case, which did happen. Everyone who reached out their hands on it also knew the risks, but if they could experience a true game play of how this game is intended to perform, (which is exactly what we've persistently requested but both BHS and EME cannot provide solution for it for some reason), how can you resist that, especially if you seek the true performance of your skills and the character's true potential?

    Is this cheating, when we are only receiving a fix for the problem that BHS and EME had not provided for years?

    Their work is proven to drive the community is the positive light-- there have been discussions about this among themselves. It also greatly reduced people from complaining about that one issue that was the root of the cause (ping dependency, if you still don't understand it) of all this explosions in few days within the forums and other community, which took a bit of load off from EME staffs. And I know, as moderator of TERAOnline Discord community, toxic posts, arguments, etc, give quite a headache to resolve issue every time.

    What EME had failed on is the poor communication attempts that created no effect. And this is why Spacecats is particularly targeted because the is the Community Manager who holds that responsibility. Same can go for Player Council, which was created to bring community and EME staff (especially the Community Manager, Spacecats) closer. But just because they could not reach out once does not mean they should give up and straight up ban innocent people. I can't exactly speak up for other two developers, but I can talk about one of them as he is more than a friend for me, as well as a fellow moderator of Discord Community, and I can guarantee you that he meant no harm what so ever as he knew very well how things can be manipulated-- unfortunately, what he had feared of happened, and he is accused of it despite his innocence on that particular matter.

    Spacecats is on that discord, we have direct contact on discord, He also knows one of the dev and I have a connection as moderator of discord. If Spacecats had asked me, or other Moderators of the discord if he can contact with that dev, he would have gotten answers, even receiving contacts with other developers of such HARMLESS third party program that only provided a FIX that was never touched up on other than saying "we're looking into it" or "we'll pass it along", leaving false promises as it was there were not a single, clear answer about whether we will receive such changes or not. This is what the community, including me, are upset at.

    Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT want to encourage people to attack EME, especially Spacecats alone. I find this extremely unfair and i also consider it unjust, simply because they have no power in any way to push such fixes for the community and alter the game that BHS, the original devs of the game, had made. You can ask around that I firmly disagree on this behavior as I've mentioned this on Discord and other posts several times.

    I will openly say I do use such programs, but I have reasons. I used to play on 90~120 until recently where ping began going nuts to the point it is abnormal to play as lancer. I'm not going to say it's completely unplayable because I know what it is to play in 180ms as that's the ping I get in KTERA, and I've also experienced gameplay in 300 ms during my first gameplay back in 2014~2015 until I got better internet. But after playing in 120ms as my normal ping, it is not playable at this point, and I am shamefully reaching out to such program to counter this. So I will accept that if this is an offense that leads to ban, but keep in mind, I have no interest of cheating, nor I know how to, and will not even consider doing so. The parts of the community who have used such applications contacted the developers and alerted them about any possible bug/glitches that may become an exploit and they were fixed when possible. I'd also like to believe that these users of such applications are the "honest players" that you speak of as well, which is why the use of such application had spread.

    So, tell me-- no, I DEMAND AN ANSWER, why am I forced to do this so that I can play the game again? We, the players, have asked, requested, even kneeling and crying on the forums to get a fix for lags and ping dependencies for years but what fixes have they provided us?

    This is, in no way, a form of "cheating"; rather, fixing the game as to how is is intended to be played.
  • Yamazuki wrote: »
    Wolf315 wrote: »
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    A more appropriate real world example would be juicing to get a competitive edge, which is not even allowed in most cases (illegal) and looked down upon as well. Having higher ping is not something a person can control other than moving closer, no different than you can't control the physical limitations of your body. In either situation you shouldn't use enhancements. Also, the logic being used to justify the "harmless" side of the program can be used to justify flat out cheating in other games. As humans age they get slow and essentially adds ping to your actions (This is why the majority of pro players are younger). This means if you're in your late 20s and above you should be allowed to script because it's not fair anyone younger is faster by design.

    This is one of the most stupid things I've read all day. Please refrain from posting
    What a well thought out argument. Please refrain from cheating.

    He's right.

    Also, the issue here is the 'how' it is being done and not the 'what' is being done, in regards to ping and .ini changes. If you don't understand the difference between the two and how you could use a -correct- comparison to other ways to boost your computer's performance, then I have some bad news for you.

  • @Idi0ticGenius

    You are clearly one of them, you are defending people that sell those tools for real money and your excuse "to be able to play the way is intended" is an obvious lie.

    If that is the way is intended then why to charge people for a tool that in other games ot would be free?

    You are making money at expenses of the player base in the nose of EME, that is unethical and it only made to look at your bussiness as something shady.

    I have seem lots of players i-framing 3 times farther than the normal way, I think your tool do that because and i-frame that move you throught 40 m in miliseconds is "how the game is intended to be played" and I am pretty sure that you defend your tool that allows players to avoid damage for long periods of times making the cheater invincible, but you defend your bussiness with "is how the game is intended to be played".

    Don't act dumb and spill the beans, banning those sady devs and players that buy with real money their hack tools is the only solution to this problem.
  • You don't get to declare what counts as cheating. They do.

    You get to play according to the terms they dictate.

    If you choose to play in a way that violates those terms you risk getting banned.

    That's just the way it is, and no matter how big a wall of text you post it isn't going to change.
  • MW54WC5MC9 wrote: »
    I have seem lots of players i-framing 3 times farther than the normal way, I think your tool do that because and i-frame that move you throught 40 m in miliseconds is "how the game is intended to be played" and I am pretty sure that you defend your tool that allows players to avoid damage for long periods of times making the cheater invincible, but you defend your bussiness with "is how the game is intended to be played".

    Comment of the century right here. I'm starting to remember why I stopped coming to these forums.



  • DelusoDeluso ✭✭✭✭
    MW54WC5MC9 wrote: »

    I have seem lots of players i-framing 3 times farther than the normal way, I think your tool do that because and i-frame that move you throught 40 m in miliseconds is "how the game is intended to be played" and I am pretty sure that you defend your tool that allows players to avoid damage for long periods of times making the cheater invincible, but you defend your bussiness with "is how the game is intended to be played".

    See, this is what I meant. Some people didn't even know what on Earth they saying and suddenly blaming someone.
    40ms = 3 times faster (farther ???) i-framing?
    SLg820d.jpg
  • MW54WC5MC9 wrote: »
    @Idi0ticGenius

    You are clearly one of them, you are defending people that sell those tools for real money and your excuse "to be able to play the way is intended" is an obvious lie.

    If that is the way is intended then why to charge people for a tool that in other games ot would be free?

    You are making money at expenses of the player base in the nose of EME, that is unethical and it only made to look at your bussiness as something shady.

    I have seem lots of players i-framing 3 times farther than the normal way, I think your tool do that because and i-frame that move you throught 40 m in miliseconds is "how the game is intended to be played" and I am pretty sure that you defend your tool that allows players to avoid damage for long periods of times making the cheater invincible, but you defend your bussiness with "is how the game is intended to be played".

    Don't act dumb and spill the beans, banning those sady devs and players that buy with real money their hack tools is the only solution to this problem.

    Are you actually [filtered]? @Idi0ticGenius is one of the most respected players in this game lol. He's the guy that writes half the fking player guides in this game and does all the KTera patch translations. I think the only reason you think people are i-framing 3x the normal distance is your brain lag. No exploit is going to allow you to do that. I think you should consider learning how to play this game before accusing anyone of cheating.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Your comment is really silly and poorly thought through, Idi0ticGenius's analogy is pretty much perfect, yours makes no sense at all.
    More of:
    This totally inaccurate statement, and lie about being neutral fits my agenda.
    Do you know what being neutral means? because his earlier statement about siding with you know who is the opposite of being neutral. Not only is he being inaccurate, but he's not even putting effort into hiding the fact he's a complete liar.

    By the way, good friends do not encourage their friends to misbehave. Automatically siding with them when even they themselves admitted they are wrong makes you a coward.
    Somentine wrote: »
    He's right.

    Also, the issue here is the 'how' it is being done and not the 'what' is being done, in regards to ping and .ini changes. If you don't understand the difference between the two and how you could use a -correct- comparison to other ways to boost your computer's performance, then I have some bad news for you.
    Where did I talk about client modifications? That is right, no where. I am talking about a certain something that does more than just "lower your ping". You can defend it all you want, but the fact remains it is entirely illegal.

    @HecroGunner Don't worry about who's siding with who, most on here complaining come from the same community that "privately" trash talks everyone that isn't on their side.
  • Yamazuki wrote: »
    Your comment is really silly and poorly thought through, Idi0ticGenius's analogy is pretty much perfect, yours makes no sense at all.
    More of:

    By the way, good friends do not encourage their friends to misbehave. Automatically siding with them when even they themselves admitted they are wrong makes you a coward.

    Where did I talk about client modifications? That is right, no where. I am talking about a certain something that does more than just "lower your ping". You can defend it all you want, but the fact remains it is entirely illegal.[/quote]

    I don't see anyone is being a coward but your analogy is clearly wrong. Ping is essentially to certain classes. Spacecat's comment about "high ping glyph builds" shows that he has no game knowledge whatsoever. He's literally asking that gunners and ninjas to stop using their highest dps abilities. Being handicapped in the game is very different than cheating.

    Secondly, not all players have ping issues because of location. EME has consistent issues with their servers and routers. No reason that I should be getting 2-3x the ping to Tera serves that I get to League servers when they're in the same location. No reason I should be getting 1000-2000ms lagspikes every day on Tera despite living a state away.
  • Yamazuki wrote: »
    Where did I talk about client modifications? That is right, no where. I am talking about a certain something that does more than just "lower your ping". You can defend it all you want, but the fact remains it is entirely illegal.

    But not for the reason your comparison was terrible, which was exactly the whole point that you missed. I have bad news for you, but I don't think you'd understand it.

  • CeciellaCeciella ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    I truly hope a moderator will post here at some point to address the concerns of the community and let us know how much direct contact with BHS they have to help resolve the issues of ping dependent skills.
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