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The 3rd Party Thread

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  • Ceciella wrote: »
    One of the only reasons your actions have had so much ire from the community is the brazen way this was announced and the incredibly threatening stance that was taken.

    I agree. I know that EME is trying to enforce their ToS, but the way it was handled felt like a big slap in the face towards the community.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Spacecats You know why all this happens? because NA community doesn't get to game developer directly, I mean, if they were here and see the comment they would understand, majority weren't really looking to cheat ( I still want you to deal with toxic players, cheaters harshly) They just wanna improve their experience.

    Developers need to understand, we all can't play in a same way, there needs to be optimal changes so everyone can enjoy the game. On this matter, we can sit and talk for hours but nothing will matter if BHS ignores the problems like before.

    So, Terms, 3rd party, EME, They are not the issues, developers that ignore real matters for too long caused all these problems. So, if we wanna get somewhere with this, if we are going to stand against 3rd party and cheats. We gotta improve the game, Developer needs to stop being lazy.

    We need change to FOV, we need change to visual options, we need more options, more detailed options. We need official in game DPS, we need fix on ping depended skill like Rapid Fire. You know what is funny? That some guys out there are doing these stuff but the company that developed, can't do it? Anyone would have used anything if they were fixed officially by developer?

    I am still not OK with couple of players' behavior on forums, discord, game over this, but I can't deny the reasons why community is disappointed at this point. But I know developers are to blame. and We need them to address this, not NA Tera CM, it is like, yeah lets send Spacecats there, people will bash him for while, he is a cool guy, can take it, then things cool off. And we can do w/e the heck we were doing to make a little more money.

    So, my final words. Things are reached to a point that developers NEED TO be sit down and reply to community why couple of players can fix stuff while they could fix officially ages ago? Why they let this happen so cheaters and hackers get opportunity to ruin the game for everyone?

    Thanks @Spacecats, for your patience and work. I seriously would have banned everyone, including myself with the high toxicity we saw on forums.
  • GrievuuzGrievuuz ✭✭✭
    Thanks for giving us an outlet. Even if it is just damage control.

  • This all started because of some people abusing the emporium, isn't it? So EME took it down to "investigate" and their "solution" was to scare the community from using 3rd party tools that may or may not be what those people used to cheat, while banning the developers of such tools. That is what EME should have to answer for, because this doesn't solve anything, the game you run is badly programmed and you need to focus on getting BHS to fix it, not scare players away from the game, which they play and have fun with only thanks to 3rd party tools and mods which are not responsible for the hackers actions, which you keep denying showing you don't really know how your game works, which is fine because you are not the developer, but you should be transparent about it and ask the community for help to find a real solution.
  • clfarron4 wrote: »
    @Spacecats, for certain of the 3rd party programs, I've explained the major cause on reddit as follows:
    Take skills like Rapid Fire, Burning Heart, Shield Barrage, Rising Furing and Burst Fire. - The majority of these are core DPS skills. - These all work through manual chain activation to themselves. That means ping is applied to each activation of the chain.

    Taking Rapid Fire as an example, you can observe that some sub-40ms players can get all 7 hits off in less than about 0.8 seconds, where player with more than 100ms ping (which is the case for quite a few NA and CA players) would be lucky to get all 7 hits off in less than 2 seconds.

    You might argue that the skill does the same damage. Yes, the skill does the same damage. What is different is that the lower ping player does that same damage in a significantly smaller amount of time than the higher ping player.

    So, how could things possibly be changes so that with these multi-hit skills do the same amount of hits in a similar time irrespective of ping? Well, there are a two ways that I can see:

    1) The 3rd party programs to emulate low ping. Yes, we know which ones. And it would seem that this is not a preferred approach by EME

    2) Modify the way the skills work so they don't chain themselves, but instead into another skill, in a similar way that Traverse Cut for Warrior works. Why do I suggest this? Well Traverse Cut is multi-hit like the others, but all 13 hits just run by themselves at the same speed regardless of ping and you can chain out after the third hit into Blade Draw or iframe out if you accidentally used it when Blade Draw is not going to come off cooldown fast enough.

    Is there a disadvantage to doing the second option? Of course, because it won't be a quick fix and at skills from at least 5 of the different classes have to be modified to accommodate for the change,

    However, in doing this, I believe you would lower the need for quite a few players feeling the need to use a third party program as suggested in the first solution.

    It can be pretty unfortunate for players with higher ping to use those skills, I agree. There are often "high latency builds" for glyphs and rotations that simply ignore those abilities in the case that your ping is so high that it affects them. That's not an excuse for why the skills shouldn't be changed mechanically, but there are workarounds. There are players out there that still do decent DPS (enough to clear hard mode dungeons) with those other builds.

    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program. I'm not saying they all function like that or that it's even a majority of people, but when it happens it changes from a solution to blatantly cheating the system and other players, and we have to act on that.
  • MaxogMaxog ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    @Maxog The main problem with open source is that anyone can get the code and modify it to do things it wasn't intended to by the original coders. And gpk modifications can be harmful in that people can remove invisible barriers, which was a major problem when we had the Kumasylum BG as the Kumas or candy carrier could simply walk out-of-bounds to prevent the other team from getting them. I do think that the game should include extra options in-game for the ini files and I can't see a problem with regular proxy servers.

    People in prison can scrape a spoon against cement to have a point and turn it into a deadly weapon. That doesn't make the spoon harmful and thus this is a flawed argument.

    I personally don't know about gpk modifications causing bugs in kumas because as far as I was aware it only changes the appearance of textures in the game via mesh replacement.
  • I agree with Ceciella this thread is kind of pointless if you guys aren't going to be involved/responsive.
    The community wants to talk and get answers from you guys, not blindly discuss the matter and hope we don't cross a line, or be stuck in wonderland about whether you guys are actually listening.

    You're not helping your rep for having bad communicating skills with this. Even if you're going to respond to folks saying you're looking into matters or bringing them up to BHS then the least you could do is let us know any updates, even if it's a 'hey, nothing from them yet.' All you've been doing is saying you're looking into matters but we get no update on it and nothing is getting fixed, and then you wonder why people are upset and losing faith, or finding their own fixes.
  • @Maxog I guess what I meant by that is that is that it can be a double-edged sword. Open source means anyone can modify it while closed source means that nobody knows exactly how it works under the hood without some reverse engineering. But I see your point. It's a rather complicated issue.
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    Personally I couldn't care less about what happens with DPS meters and the other 3rd party stuff, if they need to be forbidden then so be it, what I would like to know about is whether tweaking the game's .ini files (specifically the one refered in FPS optimization guides) is a bannable offense or not. While my PC is not built for gaming I can run it confortably in open world and certain dungeons with the options from the video menu, since the 3rd party announcement was made, though, I haven't tried running RMNM/HM and I suspect me and most of (if not all) my guiild mates will have severe FPS drops.

    So, is it okay to modify the .ini files? Is it a bannable offense? No need to say that any harm dome to my PC, system or game client would be my own fault, I'm aware of this.

    I know you can'r re-code the graphic settngs options menu, much less ask BHS to do it and send a new game build for you right now, since I guess that would require to delay the launch the following months' patches, but if modifiying the options ourselves isn't allowed, is it possible for EME to try and integrate certain tweaks in the .ini files by default? Or will we have to wait for the console release before any kind of graphical optimization is done to the game?
  • I personally don't know about gpk modifications causing bugs in kumas because as far as I was aware it only changes the appearance of textures in the game via mesh replacement.[/quote]
    s1 mod is ok gpk is harmful in a way some people use it to remove skills animations for better fps which is ok..but wat if they try to mod some numbers walls and etc that affects a certain class capabilities
  • TewiiTewii ✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.
  • Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.


    That is the thing, i honestly feel like the gm's are looking away of the problem itself to make it look like a crime, and players suffering from this bugs just "have to deal with it" and change a skill rotation that does basically nothing... smh
  • Yeah well, how well made is an MMO where you can just go through walls by opening the game folder and deleting a gpk? It's probably why they deleted kumasylum, but the game has many more stupid flaws like that.
  • What if EME changes their Terms of Service to be more lenient towards 3rd party programs?

    http://tera.enmasse.com/legal/terms-of-service paragraph 13
    We can change the Terms of Service if we want to. If you don't agree with the new Terms of Service, you should cancel the service.

    That's not going to happen. I get the feeling once the Che_atEng_ne which in the the low pong emulator and is in no wat associate with the programs people are getting banned for was used to hit the Rewards shop BHS probably laid down the law so now EME has to do something.
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