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The 3rd Party Thread

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Comments

  • edited May 2017
    ElinLove wrote: »
    People really have to stop spreading the "everyone is getting banned" thing.

    Perpetuating the outrage cycle depends on presenting (or insinuating) a story that goes something like this:

    1) That EME is being an evil tyrant and stomping on innocent players "just trying to make the game playable"
    2) That EME is going around and banning everyone for every little thing (UI mods, .ini changes, etc.)
    3) That EME's actions were only precipitated by an exploit that had nothing to do with the tools in question
    4) That EME's actions stem from mass-scale ignorance of what the tools are and what they do
    5) That the tools are used for improving the game and are not malicious
    6) That these tools only really exist in the first place because BHS never fixed lag problems or other common community complaints
    7) That the tone of EME's forum thread tell the real story of what's going on here

    Like everything, there are grains of truth in there, but an awful lot of spin. A discerning journalist would probably be able to see that chaining these points together paints a picture that exclusively glorifies those developing and using third-party tools, and doesn't really explore what people were actually doing with those tools, how they were being distributed/sold, the problems the tools were causing, how players who were not using the tools felt about them and those who used them, the legal issues with open-sourcing this kind of code, the many factors that led to the breaking point, and so on. A story of "clueless management team lords power over innocent players for trying to improve the game" has much better play than a more nuanced/neutral view that tries to consider both sides, even if "seemingly tone-deaf communication" is still a real part of the story.

    Maybe some day, once all the dust has settled, the full story considering all sides will truly come to light. But probably not for now.
  • 5H96Y49G6D5H96Y49G6D ✭✭✭
    ...u ppl realize this thread is just dmg control right?
  • YitharYithar ✭✭✭
    5H96Y49G6D wrote: »
    ...u ppl realize this thread is just dmg control right?

    Of course?
  • SirRadovanSirRadovan ✭✭
    edited May 2017
    so, any new information, about 3rd party programs? as in, what kind of them is NO and what kind is YES ( DPS meter, FOV changes , injectors ? )
  • xoBarbxoBarb ✭✭✭
    SirRadovan wrote: »
    so, any new information, about 3rd party programs? as in, what kind of them is NO and what kind is YES ( DPS meter, FOV changes , injectors ? )

    UO8oPoC.png
    They've only banned devs pretty sure, This corsairs event is reassuring most people that they don't care as almost every game has people using an injector to get through gates and into the crystal room.

  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    Honestly just sick and tired of seeing this proxy crap in PvP DAILY.
    Especially in CS.
    https://puu.sh/vIeOV/178264953a.gif
    https://puu.sh/vJTMd/5147a076db.gif
  • Honestly just sick and tired of seeing this proxy crap in PvP DAILY.
    Especially in CS.
    https://puu.sh/vIeOV/178264953a.gif
    https://puu.sh/vJTMd/5147a076db.gif

    the proxy doesnt do any of that though o:
  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Skill-prediction I believe, I dunno.
  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    I know it's a PvE game and all, but this crap is being ignored in PvP so hard and it's wicked frustrating seeing it daily.
  • edited May 2017
    Skill-prediction I believe, I dunno.

    what do you think skill prediction does...?

    do you think its just a magical hack that allows you to do anything? thats what it sounds like you're saying it is.
    "First, let’s pick some arbitrary ping. Say 200 ms. That means you sent a “ping” packet to the server at some time, and when you received a “pong” packet back from the server, it had taken 200 ms. For now, it will be sufficient to assume that this means the time it takes for a packet to reach the other side was 100 ms, so when we sent something and got something back, it took twice that time, or 200 ms.

    There’s only one thing in TERA that happens on your screen as soon as you press a button, and that’s movement. This is a technique called client-side prediction. It’s still going to take 100 ms for the server to receive your new position, and then half of everyone else’s ping for them to see it, but at least on your own client, you see when you step forward or back instantaneously. It feels smooth and fluid.

    That’s just about the only thing client-side predicted as far as we’re concerned.

    What does that say about casting skills? Well, when you press the button, your client doesn’t actually do much of anything yet. It sends a request to do it to the server, who verifies a number of things (Was it off cooldown? Was it on a valid target? Are you not stunned or slept?) and then sends back an acknowledgment along with other information like the attack speed. Only then does your client animate that skill.

    Let’s ignore chain skills for a moment. We’ve casted our first skill, but now we want to cast the second. We can’t do that while we’re already in a skill, so we have to wait for the first skill to finish animating.

    But our first skill already took 200 extra ms to start.

    And then we have to wait another 200 ms for the server to acknowledge our second skill.

    That’s what’s colloquially known as “ping tax”, and you pay it on most everything you do in TERA."
    -Meishuu's tumblr explaining what it is link: https://komyou.tumblr.com/post/160176095010/part-2-techno-mumbo-jumbo

    But what we can do is try our best to eliminate the ping tax on the client. When you try to cast a skill, skill predictors are really just tera-proxy modules that predict the acknowledgment reply from the server and send it to the client. But that’s pretty much it. Your client asks to cast a skill and the proxy instantly replies with an acknowledgment so it doesn’t have to wait. We’re not actually casting anything if we couldn’t already do it. We’re just tricking the client into thinking it’s doing it instead of waiting for the server to say it was valid.

    so basically, skill prediction just assumes the server gives the :+1: to use the skill so you dont have to suffer ping tax.

    it has nothing to do with any of that.
  • xoBarbxoBarb ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Skill-prediction I believe, I dunno.

    what do you think skill prediction does...?

    do you think its just a magical hack that allows you to do anything? thats what it sounds like you're saying it is.
    "First, let’s pick some arbitrary ping. Say 200 ms. That means you sent a “ping” packet to the server at some time, and when you received a “pong” packet back from the server, it had taken 200 ms. For now, it will be sufficient to assume that this means the time it takes for a packet to reach the other side was 100 ms, so when we sent something and got something back, it took twice that time, or 200 ms.

    There’s only one thing in TERA that happens on your screen as soon as you press a button, and that’s movement. This is a technique called client-side prediction. It’s still going to take 100 ms for the server to receive your new position, and then half of everyone else’s ping for them to see it, but at least on your own client, you see when you step forward or back instantaneously. It feels smooth and fluid.

    That’s just about the only thing client-side predicted as far as we’re concerned.

    What does that say about casting skills? Well, when you press the button, your client doesn’t actually do much of anything yet. It sends a request to do it to the server, who verifies a number of things (Was it off cooldown? Was it on a valid target? Are you not stunned or slept?) and then sends back an acknowledgment along with other information like the attack speed. Only then does your client animate that skill.

    Let’s ignore chain skills for a moment. We’ve casted our first skill, but now we want to cast the second. We can’t do that while we’re already in a skill, so we have to wait for the first skill to finish animating.

    But our first skill already took 200 extra ms to start.

    And then we have to wait another 200 ms for the server to acknowledge our second skill.

    That’s what’s colloquially known as “ping tax”, and you pay it on most everything you do in TERA."
    -Meishuu's tumblr explaining what it is link: https://komyou.tumblr.com/post/160176095010/part-2-techno-mumbo-jumbo

    But what we can do is try our best to eliminate the ping tax on the client. When you try to cast a skill, skill predictors are really just tera-proxy modules that predict the acknowledgment reply from the server and send it to the client. But that’s pretty much it. Your client asks to cast a skill and the proxy instantly replies with an acknowledgment so it doesn’t have to wait. We’re not actually casting anything if we couldn’t already do it. We’re just tricking the client into thinking it’s doing it instead of waiting for the server to say it was valid.

    so basically, skill prediction just assumes the server gives the :+1: to use the skill so you dont have to suffer ping tax.

    it has nothing to do with any of that.

    I asked one of my friends to showcase some Skill Prediction goodies while used in PVP
    https://gyazo.com/0cb4bd2a715c0f832021d837720f3ffc
    https://gyazo.com/358ad974c02c5f437a6177414543df79
    https://gyazo.com/f9a32bc5b5ed670dc7225645560a5500

    Note on his screen everything looks fine/fluid. but as you can see by the gif this is how it looks to everyone else.

    d5Aqpji.png
    tubwy18.png
    Really fun losing a 2:49min offense round of Corsairs from people like this

    eI3hSxl.png
    Not even the same game

    rchT339.png
    LnfdGfh.png
    B24RLTc.png

    Injecting offers so many easy to abuse bugs and gimmicks to ruin BGS and open world pvp as shown by @GlitterBalloon s gifs/vid.
    @thirdpartysoftware for someone who made an entire forum account dedicated to thirdpartysoftware you seem really out of the loop of what it can be used for.
  • The only bug that skill prediction has at the moment is the ability to double iframe to bypass gates. The devs have been working to patch this out. it's not intended.

    SKILL PREDICTION does not offer any of what your friends have shown you. It merely emulates low ping.

    Since you guys are not keen on looking up information for yourself, take a look: https://komyou.tumblr.com/post/160176095010/part-2-techno-mumbo-jumbo

    The post is by Meishuu aka the DEVELOPER OF SKILL PREDICTION.

    With that in mind, the abuses that people are potentially using are not the result of skill prediction, but something else.
  • xoBarbxoBarb ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    The only bug that skill prediction has at the moment is the ability to double iframe to bypass gates. The devs have been working to patch this out. it's not intended.

    SKILL PREDICTION does not offer any of what your friends have shown you. It merely emulates low ping.

    Since you guys are not keen on looking up information for yourself, take a look: https://komyou.tumblr.com/post/160176095010/part-2-techno-mumbo-jumbo

    The post is by Meishuu aka the DEVELOPER OF SKILL PREDICTION.

    With that in mind, the abuses that people are potentially using are not the result of skill prediction, but something else.

    I posted multiple gifs of someone who is using the injector and fully aware I was recording him

    Its not mumbojumbo just because you don't TP on your screen when you use it doesnt mean you're not actually teleporting on EVERYONE elses screen. find a friend if possible, and have him record you when you use your skills whilst injecting.

  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    Did you even read the blog you linked?
    Meishuu didn't develop Skill Prediction, he only developed fast fire.

    QUOTE FROM THE SAME EXACT BLOG:
    The three main skill predictors, each written by a now banned developer, handles things very differently. Mine had lockons for lockons and fast-fire to focus solely on three skills (Rapid Fire, Burning Heart, and Burst Fire), both of which made no attempt to resolve desyncs. Both Bern and Pinkie aimed to generalize the approach for all skills in the game, but I can’t discuss how they went about resolving desyncs and similar issues due to not personally examining any of their code.

    Also, are you looking at any of the stuff we're linking? Videos/gifs/pics of clear cheating not by normal means? idk what else to show you to prove the point that the desync issues from this 3rd party program in PvP are ridiculous.
  • ArnetraArnetra ✭✭✭
    @thirdpartysoftware maybe you should read the blog you've been posting yourself. Any time you send a packet you couldn't have without the injector, you introduce the possibility of desync that wouldn't have normally occured. It's not surprising (for position information especially) that sometimes in resolving the desync the server accepts the new position the client is giving rather than tell the client "nah buddy, you're supposed to be over here," resulting in situations like we see with the gifs above.
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