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The 3rd Party Thread



  • edited September 2017
    Beom wrote: »
    @Pixelator I guess that's what @JasonTERA keeps saying.

    Obviously those modules are "CHEATING" so all of them were supposed to get permanent ban. However, they only got temp ban even though EME said "any player identified as cheating=perma ban"

    All these brought:

    1) EME consider some mild modules as not cheating
    2) EME gave some poeple excuse
    3) EME thinks like "We have all the right in TERA, so do not doubt us and just suck it up w/e we do according to our rule"

    Do you really think people who do that should be permanently banned on the first offense just for the sake of upholding a strict/absolutist reading of that one single statement? Would that really solve anything?

    In the end, these people who get multi-week/month-long bans for these "less severe" forms of cheating... now they have that on their record. If they come back and start doing it again, then they'll get a much more severe ban, including permanent. The punishment accomplishes what it needs to do for those people.

    The people who are doing outright/explicit cheats in the open don't care about their accounts being banned because they don't really care about TERA anymore. Permanent ban on the first offense is warranted since they've got nothing to "live for" anyway. But there are a lot of people running these so-called "QoL improvements" that actually do care about TERA still, and don't want to lose everything on their accounts. I don't think it's "unfair" to give these types of people a second chance if they're staying away from the blatant game-breaking cheats.

    Basically, I don't buy into the "cheating is cheating is cheating; all deserve automatic permanent bans" view. I do think there are degrees to cheating. I think they have to consider the merits of each case one by one, and figure out the most appropriate punishment to fit the crime, up to and including a permanent ban.
  • @counterpoint

    I agree with your idea of "degree of severity", and it is more reliable in general.

    However, the point of recent comments is "player's right to know the changes in game".

    EME said cheating = perm ban
    But EME did = ban according to severity.


    If EME changed their regulation and applied it, at least there must be something announced before or after the action has been taken place.

    Again, I do agree with different penalty according to severity. But EME said perm ban for ANY cheater. So those people who got temp ban were supposed to get perma ban. Or announce the change in their rules.

    If you are trying to mention and tag "ToS" and tell people to "suck it up", then you are saying same thing for any kind of issue.

    Not satisfied with event? Suck it up.
    Feeling unfair? Suck it up.
    EME has all the right, players do not.

    Are you going to say this is reasonable???
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Beom wrote: »
    If you are trying to mention and tag "ToS" and tell people to "suck it up", then you are saying same thing for any kind of issue.

    Not satisfied with event? Suck it up.
    Feeling unfair? Suck it up.
    EME has all the right, players do not.

    Are you going to say this is reasonable???

    That's pretty much like other game companies do, like Blizzard, EA and Riot.

    They simply do what they feel like and toss the ToS on your face when you complain or ask for an explanation throught support or their forums.
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    @ScrubLife Certain parts of such programs are made to implement functionality to improve the game in a way that the players have been asking for years, for example optimisations and ping equalisation across certain skills.

    Why would you want ping equalisation across classes? Well this post explains it pretty well. And guess what? We've been asking for it for years and nothing has been about it. So some players took matters into their own hands.

    And before you say that these programs can make skills fire faster than 0 ping, they can't because they'd fail the cooldown validation and the server would reject the request
    Luniack wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    @Spacecats, for certain of the 3rd party programs, I've explained the major cause on reddit as follows:
    Take skills like Rapid Fire, Burning Heart, Shield Barrage, Rising Furing and Burst Fire. - The majority of these are core DPS skills. - These all work through manual chain activation to themselves. That means ping is applied to each activation of the chain.

    Taking Rapid Fire as an example, you can observe that some sub-40ms players can get all 7 hits off in less than about 0.8 seconds, where player with more than 100ms ping (which is the case for quite a few NA and CA players) would be lucky to get all 7 hits off in less than 2 seconds.

    You might argue that the skill does the same damage. Yes, the skill does the same damage. What is different is that the lower ping player does that same damage in a significantly smaller amount of time than the higher ping player.

    So, how could things possibly be changes so that with these multi-hit skills do the same amount of hits in a similar time irrespective of ping? Well, there are a two ways that I can see:

    1) The 3rd party programs to emulate low ping. Yes, we know which ones. And it would seem that this is not a preferred approach by EME

    2) Modify the way the skills work so they don't chain themselves, but instead into another skill, in a similar way that Traverse Cut for Warrior works. Why do I suggest this? Well Traverse Cut is multi-hit like the others, but all 13 hits just run by themselves at the same speed regardless of ping and you can chain out after the third hit into Blade Draw or iframe out if you accidentally used it when Blade Draw is not going to come off cooldown fast enough.

    Is there a disadvantage to doing the second option? Of course, because it won't be a quick fix and at skills from at least 5 of the different classes have to be modified to accommodate for the change,

    However, in doing this, I believe you would lower the need for quite a few players feeling the need to use a third party program as suggested in the first solution.

    It can be pretty unfortunate for players with higher ping to use those skills, I agree. There are often "high latency builds" for glyphs and rotations that simply ignore those abilities in the case that your ping is so high that it affects them. That's not an excuse for why the skills shouldn't be changed mechanically, but there are workarounds. There are players out there that still do decent DPS (enough to clear hard mode dungeons) with those other builds.

    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program. I'm not saying they all function like that or that it's even a majority of people, but when it happens it changes from a solution to blatantly cheating the system and other players, and we have to act on that.

    Spacecats you can't understand about people who have high ping, there no way to do a simple dps or tanking bosses on pve, mechanics can kill you fast without appear at your scream, and at pvp... well, any low ping person have more chances to beat you, it's simple.
    Look this exemple:

    I'm not toxic, i'm just leaving facts about players like me who not alive in US and spend money and life at this game, who needs same considerate than people who alive closes from server.

    Anyway, thanks for opening dialogue with us.

  • MidokuPastaMidokuPasta ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Nevermind this was answered in discord
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    A friend of mine suggested that I should link his suggestion here, since he thinks it is relevant.
  • The only thing that keeps me playing is the thing that fix our high ping player issue, which is described as "Skill response time", many players had suffered thru many years without this helpful program. if this can be implement INTO the game,i bet this game will become really popular just because it will be probably the only MMORPG that has good skill respond time. Optimization wise would be another story...
  • SeikilosSeikilos ✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    A friend of mine suggested that I should link his suggestion here, since he thinks it is relevant.

    I answered at your other post. i will copy paste it here too:

    First of all, EME can't do anything. They don't have the power to alter the code. This has to be done by BHS. So the first impediment in the whole story is to get this chunk of information to BHS. The second would be to persuade them that this is needed.

    You see BHS doesn't care about other regions. Only for korea. As long as the other regions are profitable and bring the money, no matter the state of the game, they are good. Koreans though are in a different state than the other regions. Small country (with, probably, better infrastructure) means low ping for koreans, so they don't get these problems. They also have the talent system which gives extra bonuses to skills, that we don't have. So why would they bother. BHS is not Blizzard. It's a small company. They probably don't want to waste any work hour on other regions.

    Very noble intentions there from you and your friend. Now look at your suggestion sinking in oblivion...

    P.S.: Tera code is a mess. What do i mean by a mess? Think of a bowl of old pasta that you have left in the fridge for 5 years while you randomly removed and added more pasta. To make things even worse, almost all the old team, both on BHS and EME has jump ship (or is otherwise occupied, *ahem* google is your friend). So i don't think that there's someone on either side that willingly would like to get more involved, codewise or programmin, than already needed.
  • Haven't read all the previous comments, but i guess its nice to see this placebo post, why? because is kinda pointless and, is trying to let us know that you all (EME) are tryharding the best (i want to guess that you are) but, if your developer isn't doing jack$h¡t to fix the game problems (ping dependant skills, official dps meter, lag, FoV, FPS issues, and the list goes on and on...) the people will have reasons to use 3rd party programs or do certain things to certain .ini files.

    Maybe i could be wrong, or perhaps BHS is trying the best fixing other side things or making elin costumes... who knows...

  • JasonTERA wrote: »
    This is very minor issue and 99.99999 % people will not care, I know. But I want them not to make any confusing as a game management.

    Well I think that the reality of the situation, is that unless you get 99.99999 % of the people to start caring, then all of this is meaningless. I mean, what else is there? more arguing? even if you were absolutely right about something, it wont matter because one person cannot make a difference. In fact, I think you're wasting your breath. Look over some of the comments. The more this keeps dragging out, it makes less of an impact.
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