The 3rd Party Thread

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  • AryixAryix ✭✭✭
    @Aryix Do you even know what ping tax is? These things are flaws within the Tera code so your whole argument is invalid

    Do you know what a ToS is? This is an agreement that you enter willingly into, y'know. Pretty sure we as players aren't supposed to mess with the Tera code, so your argument is invalid.
  • @spacecats
    Since you are allowing us to speak about 3rd party programs and mods, I'll give my two cents.

    Instead of outright banning player for using them I personally believe that the best scenario for both EME and us players is to properly regulate the creation and the safe use of mod/programs in Tera. This is, obviously, not an easy task; however, your community is willing to help you with this, in fact desperately so. We love Tera and, as much as you at EME, want this game to succeed and prosper. However, in its current state, without using mods/programs Tera would be downright unplayable for many current and potential users.

    So, how can we do this?

    Why not, instead of making a blanket statement that anyone found using either of the aforementioned items will be permanently banned, create a new sub-forum that is dedicated to the safe creation and use of mods/programs for Tera? This sub-forum could require strict moderation (for example requiring moderator permission before a thread can be posted) by both EME and EME elected players (similar to that of the player council) who are knowledgeable about the creation and use of mods/programs in Tera and who have firm guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable for use in Tera. This way we could collect all of the mods/programs that straight up improve the player experience in a place where all of the player base can equally access them while at the same time making a statement that use of unlisted mods/programs will result in action against your Tera account.

    Not expecting a reply (since like you said, there are some things that you can't answer and this is probably one of the), just some food for thought,
    LTN

    Out of all the crap here this sounds by far the most reasonable solution to all this. That way, when it's downright outside of whatever's in this subforum, you can go ahead and drop the hammer on their head no question. I mean, even a detailed, thorough, unbiased conversation with the people who make them would make a huge difference.

    Also, having the devs who actually made these programs at your side would help you weed out the actual offenders since you will have their counsel. In turn, they could help you be enlightened as to how these programs work, what's within both legal and ethical line and what's not, and be actually there to help you identify those who use it to abuse.

    I'm sure this will be a huge thing to do to move forward and would probably cause some huge waves (eg. legal stuff and/or approval from BHS), but, like someone said, this is just our game as it is yours. Come on, it's 2017 - everything should be progressive.
  • Maxog wrote: »
    First off I'd like to preface this saying that the community is primarily upset about EME going back/being unclear on their word about 3rd party programs and client modifications. The clarification posted by Treeshark was that as long as it wasn't harming anyone or anything, everything was good. This persisted until the management change and was assumed to be okay until the recent events.

    The second thing I'd like to say is this game runs awfully, and the compounded effects of the server lag and FPS lag makes for a really terrible gaming experience.

    There are a few main topics I need to outline that everyone needs clarification over EXPLICITLY (if I mention any of these by exact names please edit my post, I'd be greatful to not have my post deleted but I'm not sure if I'll slip up or not) **THAT EME NEEDS TO ADDRESS ONE BY ONE**.

    -DPS Meters
    -Regular Proxy Servers
    -Packet Forwarding Proxy Servers
    -S1 Modifications
    -gpk Modifications

    I think that covers all the topics.

    DPS Meters:
    The policy before was, as long as the meters aren't being used to actively harass someone nor performing malicious things, they were fine to use. DPS Meters only merely look at the packets sent to the TERA servers and don't actually interfere with them in any way shape or form. Whilst it is true that a malicious user could cause packet modifications, the most popular meters are open sourced on github and many people actively look at the code/push/pull to it and any malicious intent from a coder would be immediately known. I myself have looked at the code for some of these and they use standard packet capture software that has a huge reputation and is also open sourced. No harm, no foul used to be the old policy, but not anymore apparently.

    Regular Proxy Servers:
    These are servers that simply route your traffic a different, more efficient way to the TERA servers in order to lower your ping. Again, nothing wrong here, these servers are usually paid for by clients in order to sort of "express lane" their traffic to the TERA servers. No harm, no foul once again.

    Packet Forwarding Proxy Servers:
    These servers identify the use of ping dependent skills on classes in TERA and send to the TERA server the same response as if they're sent consectutively with 0 ping. Harmful? Questionable. Someone would have to look into whether or not 0 response packets to the servers are harmful. Personal Opinion: I THINK EME REALLY NEEDS TO TELL THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THIS ONE AND THE ONE ABOVE TO BE CLEAR. PEOPLE KEEP USING PROXY AS A BLANKET TERM WHEN THE TWO PROXIES ARE ***NOT*** THE SAME

    S1 Modifications:
    These are files used in Unreal Engine 3 to manage things in game such as camera distance and other stuff. Often times, games aren't set to their optimal S1engine modifications and there's a large community surrounding them finding the optimal way to make games run better. EME needs to face that the TERA client runs like garbage and that people want to have a better TERA experience. If EME was really concerned about S1 modifications making the game unfair, then embed the files in something like a dynamic link library or something similar. Players *like* to customize their games' things like FOV, Render distance, on screen particle count, etc. so this game can run on toasters. Harmful? Not in the slightest.

    gpk Modifications:
    These things make things in game look like other things. That's it. Harmful? Questionable, may impact EME profits on cosmetic items.

    Address these, and then we can start talking about each one.

    DPS meters:
    First it wasn't a policy, they let it slide as long as it wasn't used to harass other people about their DPS, it was always against the TOS they just happen to let people use it, and now they don't. Why? I don't know, but I would reckon that with the pop up of a certain website that keeps a record of the DPS that your particular character does when you happen to run with any of these players that run that particular program, your DPS is up for show without your consent and could potentially lead to you being harassed or just not picked to run dungeons from LFG's if they decide to look you up on that certain website.

    Packet Forwarding Proxy Servers:
    Except that the program that people are using are not just for ping dependent skills, they use them to instant cast multi hit skills in a fraction of a second. You can argue that it's a "soft fix" for people with ping issues but it's not the case here, people with low ping are using it, because it gives that much of an advantage in dps and it's used in conjunction with DPS meter. The top guilds of most servers almost all use the injector they (to my experience) encourage other people that they play with on a regular basis to download and use it.

    S1 Modifications:
    It sucks to suck, if your computer can't run the game at its lowest settings perhaps its time to get a new one, you agree in the TOS that modifying any of the game's content or files can potentially get you banned. For me personally, I've seen countless people say they have FPS problems, sudden dips in FPS while I've never had any myself - maybe I'm lucky? But I don't think that the issue is that the game runs THAT poorly it's just players not wanting to recognize that they have a outdated machine and its time to change rigs or perhaps it's just that you need to clean it out because it's over heating and throttling your performance.

    gpk Modifications:
    Harmful? Yes, not even questionable. People who use gpk mods to change how their outfits would look directly impact profits, you can say "well they probably wouldn't have spent money to buy cosmetic items to begin with" sure that is valid but its also equally as valid to say the next person who would have spent money to buy cosmetic items, but then found out (or were told) they don't have to because they can just download and replace the gpk files to make their character look like it had the premium outfits. It's harder to say because it differs from individual to individual but it's without a doubt that they do harm.
    jongbae wrote: »
    Ayi wrote: »
    Making you that much better than anyone who plays fair. No thx. I don't want to have to download programs to have an equal chance at gameplay.

    This is technically saying someone who lives close to the servers is cheating because his ping is one digit number. This program in particular didn't become popular until servers changed recently, having unavoidable and more frequent server lag spikes. Then again, not being shady about it but ping issues is some people decide to deal with or not, I personally have seen 200ping players doing better than low ping dps in conclusion: If you suck at your class, lowering your ping won't make you better regardless.

    Server lag tho, is a well known issue in this game specially the last couple of months it's been been so bad to make the game unplayable sometimes. But you can call it whatever m8.

    No, because moving closer to the server isn't the same as downloading a software that impacts how the game plays and being closer to the servers doesn't mean you're going to magically do drastically more DPS.

    Yes, server lag is a problem, yes it does suck to one day have ping of 150+ but guess what, br's play the game with 200+ ping all the time and they can clear content, why can't you or any other person with sub 100 or less ping.
  • Aryix wrote: »
    @Aryix Do you even know what ping tax is? These things are flaws within the Tera code so your whole argument is invalid

    Do you know what a ToS is? This is an agreement that you enter willingly into, y'know. Pretty sure we as players aren't supposed to mess with the Tera code, so your argument is invalid.

    No need to mess with Tera code if Enmasse can properly code themselves ^^
  • AryixAryix ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    ZeRoHouR95 wrote: »
    That's understandable for those who live on europe that literally have servers for them, but according to what you say ppl from south america for example should just deal with it, aka if you are some1 who has low ping, and you "casually" beat them, we will see you tbaging them and calling them "brs" when they are not even "brs" they prolly just have high ping, call it europe, argentina, chile, germany, w/e u wanna call it, i find ur comment very racist "ignoring" those who have ping issues, even more when we are so far away from those old topics... Pretty neat point there lol

    How is it racist tho? Did I offend you or any other race? Just analyze the situation properly from EME's pov, and then from BHS pov. It's not RACIST to accept the FACT that anyone outside of NA will have, by definition, high ping.

    @Johngaloria Enmasse doesn't code the game. BHS does. Are you even aware of this?
  • Lives in new york and the lagspike hits me while doing side quests for a laurel https://gyazo.com/17f0da1d24fce949eb785ae3ef406803
    Wonderful day we're having :)
    these servers really don't lag at all, geez I wonder if they can fix it one day so this doesn't happen <3
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    ZeRoHouR95 wrote: »
    Aryix wrote: »
    The only valid arguments related to ping issues on an NA server-based game are those from people that are native to NA. Everyone out of this comfort zone is aware beforehand that they will suffer ping issues. It is not a valid excuse to say "I don't live in the US, please take consideration." simply because you are consuming a product/using a service that does not cater to you. That does not give anyone any reason to break an agreement they made when they signed up to use said service. "It's leveling the playing field," is a lie tho, because not even those that live on the US play at 0 ms. You're not leveling the playing field, you are just getting an advantage for yourself because you are butthurt that other players that CASUALLY live closer to the server and pay more for their internet speed have a better ping than you do. The players were just fine before regardless of the issues.

    If you don't like the lag and delay and issues on NA Tera, play on a region closer to your country, I assure you that you will get better ping without the need of 3rd party add-ons. NA Tera isn't the only server in the world. You can even play KTera, they have talents and more goodies afaik, and they get content first hand.

    Grow up and stop feeling entitled to being pardoned for a ToS infringement just because you invested time, effort, and money. No one told you to do that, and you were aware you might get banned for it.

    That's understandable for those who live on europe that literally have servers for them, but according to what you say ppl from south america for example should just deal with it, aka if you are some1 who has low ping, and you "casually" beat them, we will see you tbaging them and calling them "brs" when they are not even "brs" they prolly just have high ping, call it europe, argentina, chile, germany, w/e u wanna call it, i find ur comment very racist "ignoring" those who have ping issues, even more when we are so far away from those old topics... Pretty neat point there lol

    While maybe he didn't pick the best words, he's not completely wrong, my friends and I play from Latin America (2 of us from Mex. and the rest from South America) we know we won't ever have a decent ping no matter what, yet we play, spend EMP and time, it's our choice, and if the latency was unbearable we would simply play some other thing. However, that doesn't mean there aren't network and optimization problems BHS and EME should take care of, I sincerely hope this incident, which could lead to very, very bad press for the game if the community wants to, forces both companies to take action and solve the issues discussed here. Meanwhile, cheat engine and injectors should remain forbidden.
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    jebbush wrote: »

    S1 Modifications:
    It sucks to suck, if your computer can't run the game at its lowest settings perhaps its time to get a new one, you agree in the TOS that modifying any of the game's content or files can potentially get you banned. For me personally, I've seen countless people say they have FPS problems, sudden dips in FPS while I've never had any myself - maybe I'm lucky? But I don't think that the issue is that the game runs THAT poorly it's just players not wanting to recognize that they have a outdated machine and its time to change rigs or perhaps it's just that you need to clean it out because it's over heating and throttling your performance..

    Are you telling me that this build (1) is not sufficient to play TERA and I should spend loads upgrading it because the TERA code is badly/not optimised? You know this thing runs FF XIV on max settings just fine. It runs Tom Clancy's The Division on max settings just fine. I've done system tests which indicate that it should do VR with the Rift and Vive just fine.

    So explain to me why TERA doesn't run properly at anything close to Preset 4 without losing FPS left right and center.

    (1) Yes, this the actual parts list my friend built for me.
  • @spacecats
    Since you are allowing us to speak about 3rd party programs and mods, I'll give my two cents.

    Instead of outright banning player for using them I personally believe that the best scenario for both EME and us players is to properly regulate the creation and the safe use of mod/programs in Tera. This is, obviously, not an easy task; however, your community is willing to help you with this, in fact desperately so. We love Tera and, as much as you at EME, want this game to succeed and prosper. However, in its current state, without using mods/programs Tera would be downright unplayable for many current and potential users.

    So, how can we do this?

    Why not, instead of making a blanket statement that anyone found using either of the aforementioned items will be permanently banned, create a new sub-forum that is dedicated to the safe creation and use of mods/programs for Tera? This sub-forum could require strict moderation (for example requiring moderator permission before a thread can be posted) by both EME and EME elected players (similar to that of the player council) who are knowledgeable about the creation and use of mods/programs in Tera and who have firm guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable for use in Tera. This way we could collect all of the mods/programs that straight up improve the player experience in a place where all of the player base can equally access them while at the same time making a statement that use of unlisted mods/programs will result in action against your Tera account.

    Not expecting a reply (since like you said, there are some things that you can't answer and this is probably one of the), just some food for thought,
    LTN

    I agree with this and I'm sure the developers of programs would have been fine with having discussions and working for a collaboration if they 1. didn't get a [filtered] poor attempt at contact and 2. weren't scared of being banned (and then got banned anyway). I'm pretty sure we all would have been much happier in the long run with this method if we could have had it, but EME sort of tossed that option out the window with their harsh decisions and actions.

  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    .
    Ceciella wrote: »
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.

    I did not know you were a developer from Bluehole, please do tell us why the delay was not removed in Tera instead of using a 3rd party tool?

    Or may be the delay was intentionally added to not overload the servers!

    I'm pretty sure EME and BHS are big boys who don't need you defending them, especially when your speculation is even less helpful than the original post. It's clear you're uneducated on the specifics of what you're taking about but don't let me stop you from shitting up every single thread involved while people just want honest straightforward answers about .ini tweaks, optimization and other things that are not the third party tools.

    Maybe educate people on the specifics instead of dismissing and insulting them ¬.¬?

    I'll take up the role then even tho I'm somehow a spectator:
    We've seen the b-utt allready let's not pretend we don't know what's under that skirt. The name of the program Tewii mentioned is the injector. We all know it let's not hide. Now regarding the statement that it just "unbreaks" the game, by removing unnecessary delays, is basically describing the technical workings of the program itself. I'll not enter into bigger details on how it works, but the fact is, that when you know how the program works, as in, you've been in touch with the mechanics of the program or downright the code of it, you don't need to be a BHS programmer to see how your side of the thing works.

    That is what seems to be missing from Spacecats' view, the deeper workings of the 3rd party tools used and how far they affect what. I don't know if he either doesn't know how it technically works or if he's just hiding the things like we didn't see the b-utt under that skirt already. Point in case is, the real deal about those injectors is not faking your DPS as is suggested, it's just fixing the issue with it to begin with.
    Correct me if I'm wrong on the matter, but the program that is the topic is pretty obvious to me at least.
    I'm not gonna say that it's impossible to fake the DPS on the server, like finding some exploit to go 100% crits or faking the power or anything like this, if this is the case and it's found, then yes ban on sight the hacker no questions asked. But the injectors are a different deal.

    There isn't enough technical evidence that it will either avoid or cause a DDoS type of command from the client, some players say it will by it's nature, some say it's nature fixes the possibility of the official client creating one under high ping. That's a matter for a deeper test.


    To be really fair, guys, create a goddemn test server again with client enabled injectors always on, and test the effects on client and server. If it fixes our issues and won't cause new (big) ones then apply it! There's many stuff the community has developed that could very well be used in the game natively but well, we're not the official devs so we can't.
  • JohngaloriaJohngaloria ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    Aryix wrote: »

    @Johngaloria Enmasse doesn't code the game. BHS does. Are you even aware of this?

    Enmasse can implement the proxy injector themselves within their client. [edited]
  • Aryix wrote: »
    The only valid arguments related to ping issues on an NA server-based game are those from people that are native to NA. Everyone out of this comfort zone is aware beforehand that they will suffer ping issues. It is not a valid excuse to say "I don't live in the US, please take consideration." simply because you are consuming a product/using a service that does not cater to you. That does not give anyone any reason to break an agreement they made when they signed up to use said service. "It's leveling the playing field," is a lie tho, because not even those that live on the US play at 0 ms. You're not leveling the playing field, you are just getting an advantage for yourself because you are butthurt that other players that CASUALLY live closer to the server and pay more for their internet speed have a better ping than you do. The players were just fine before regardless of the issues.

    If you don't like the lag and delay and issues on NA Tera, play on a region closer to your country, I assure you that you will get better ping without the need of 3rd party add-ons. NA Tera isn't the only server in the world. You can even play KTera, they have talents and more goodies afaik, and they get content first hand.

    Grow up and stop feeling entitled to being pardoned for a ToS infringement just because you invested time, effort, and money. No one told you to do that, and you were aware you might get banned for it.

    So, European here. From Denmark to be more specific.
    It's funny you say all this when most of the people I see actually complaining about awful latency are from America. In a lot of cases I play with better and more stable ping than Americans, and a lot of the time it seems to be only just barely better for those that live over there. People with a consistent sub-40 ms ping are few and far between, even looking at Americans playing on a server located wherever in NA, because it just so happens that America's infrastructure as far as internet goes is terrible. And TERA's server(s) seem to be in a... Let's say not particularly great datacenter that has bloody weather issues seemingly affecting its performance.

    That said, dear EME: You should consider relocating your server(s) to Austria, Netherlands, or Germany. Yes, servers located in Europe for an NA game, you heard that right. It would 1) improve the latency for a lot of Americans, 2) not change anything for most others, and 3) worst case the currently lucky few that get 20-40ms might get 60-80ms instead. We have great datacenters with great networks over here.
  • ZuvelZuvel ✭✭
    We all know tera optimization is awful, so wouldnt be just easier if enmasse changed the options in the INI files for the optimized ones?.

    Or the mentioned before an approved list of modifications that help in the performance of the game.

  • Daight90 wrote: »
    @Spacecats

    I don't know if this post will be deleted or not, and I'll try to keep it as 'vague' as possible so people who don't know, can't search for it.
    I am by no means experts in that program, I am just saying what I have learned, and I won't explain in depth either, just simplifying it.
    This will be a SUPER long post.

    There is a reason why some people created that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program, TERA, being a 'real time combat' orientated game, is ping dependent, and as 'damage average calculator' becomes increasingly popular, some of the player's enjoyment focus would change from clearing instances, to comparing their 'scores'.

    And as TERA gets more competitive in endgame, high ping players suffers in name calling because of ping tax.
    Some people would call them bad, some would even label them as trash, shunning them, avoiding them, or even blocking them.
    Now, some might argue that 'lol what era is this now? people still saying ping matters? git gud scrub'

    Here is an example of how Tera combat system works,
    Single Cast Skill (Example: Slayer's Measured Slice):
    Press button for Measured Slice > Delay > Character uses Measured Slice

    Using Single Cast Skills back-to-back(Example: Eviscerate to Measured Slice):
    Press button for Eviscerate > Delay > Character uses Eviscerate > Press button for Measured Slice > Delay > Character uses Measured Slice

    Using Channeling Skills (Example: Burst Fire, Burning Heart)
    Hold down button for Burst Fire > Delay > Burst Fire first cast > Delay > Burst Fire second cast > Delay > Burst Fire third cast > Delay > Burst Fire fourth cast > you get the story.

    Even charging skills like Thunder Strike and Radiant Arrow suffers from ping tax during every charge.

    High Ping Players don't just suffer from skill delays, they suffer from hit delay too,
    If there are and fast attacks, depending on your ping, you might even get hit the moment bosses starts to do attack animation.

    I will use SKY CRUISER ENDEAVOR's Putrion as Example:
    Boss' starts to prepare stun > Boss starts to fly up > AOE appears > Stunned

    But since the animation is 1 second or lesser,
    This is what high ping players gets
    Boss' starts to prepare stun > Boss starts to fly up > Stunned

    There are many other examples but i'll just list Putrion's.


    And with that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program, high ping players can somewhat negates the delays for skills.

    This is how that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program works:

    Single Cast Skill (Example: Slayer's Measured Slice):
    Press button for Measured Slice > Delay > Character uses Measured Slice

    Using Single Cast Skills back-to-back(Example: Eviscerate to Measured Slice):
    Press button for Eviscerate > Delay > Character uses Eviscerate > Press button for Measured Slice > Character uses Measured Slice

    Using Channeling Skills (Example: Burst Fire, Burning Heart)
    Hold down button for Burst Fire > Delay > Burst Fire first cast > Burst Fire second cast > Burst Fire third cast > Burst Fire fourth cast > you get the story.

    And yes, that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program removes the subsequent delay for skill chaining, making your skills 'hit as fast as 0 ping'

    And some people might then think, 'Hey 0 ping, that's unfair, even the people living in Chicago gets like 8 ping to 18 ping, not 0!'
    Well, 100 ping delay = 0.1 second delay, so a 10 ping difference compared to a 0 ping is 0.01 second.
    The advantages of that program gives to people who lives in Chicago is that much.

    Now, there are 3 well known Devs who are related to that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program, and all three of them got banned,
    Dev B, Dev M, and Dev P.

    Dev M created that program, but he did not share it with anybody outside of his friend circle,and kept it a secret, hence for many years, only did he get 'found out' recently.

    Dev B created that program, and sold it for gold(not going to mention how much), but he did not spread it to many people too.

    Dev P created that program, and shared it to almost anybody for free.

    Some of you who thinks it is unfair, is it really unfair if Dev P openly shares it so anybody can get it?

    I believe EME knows about it at this point in time, and since they do know it helps players who have high ping to play on equal with people who lives in/near Chicago, they allow it silently, which makes this a 'Grey Zone'

    Grey Zone is not black and white, it is '3rd party' but since it do no harm, it is allowed silently,
    'damage average calculator' is one famous/popular example of something which is in the Grey Zone.

    And since that program is an open source program, other people who knows coding, could use it for exploit,
    the famous one is the one which is related to ruinous manor, where others can go pass the gate after first boss, and effectively skipping first boss.
    Effectively moving this program from grey zone into black zone.

    And then there comes a problem, where this unknown person, used ANOTHER 'thou-shalt-not-named' program, which is not even related, or close to what Devs B, M, and P made,

    And this effectively made EME start all these 'Witch Hunts'.

    Some of you might feel that 'hey this is NA server, go back to whatever region you are from if you want to complain about all these unfairness',
    Let me tell you, not only does Europeans plays NA server, other regions like South East Asia plays NA servers too.
    And South East Asia is a region with many different languages, and different countries, the currently publishers who are in SEA regions are
    Taiwan, Japan, and Korea, which you HAVE to know Chinese, Japanese, or Koreans.
    If you don't know any of these three languages, you won't be able to play.

    And now think,
    If everybody who is not living in NA, stops playing TERA as you wished, would you be able to see a 'lively server filled with people'?
    And since every non-NA people left, there will be lesser people playing, and the price for tradable items would increase, are you fine with that?
    And what about your in-game friends, are you sure all of your in-game friends, even close ones, are from NA?
    And let's face it, the world is about money, since every non-NA people left, EME would definitely lose a portion of their revenue, and if they can't make decent profit, what do you think they would do?
    If you are in their shoes, would you continue a business where you earn little money?

    And from what I see from both sides, the only communication mentioned is 'random stranger whispering dev M, and dev M thought that random stranger is going to find evidence and report dev M for 3rd party program'

    And I really do pity Spacecats for being the target of frustration and rage just because he is Community Manager, because of what EME did,
    for those who don't know, it takes more than one person to make a decision, and a superior to make hard decisions.

    To EME, not just Spacecats:
    I know that '3rd party programs' are not allowed, and to EME, if you really want proof of benefits of high ping players using that 'thou-shalt-not-named' program, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would gladly take videos and show you the difference, I believe Dev B even has videos about it.

    And could you give the Devs one more chance, and communicate with them? I feel that, banning them just because of a 'failed communication' seems really unfair to them, and ultimately, what they did really did benefit a lot of players, numbering in the thousands.(there are proof of this as well)
    And if you want their direct contact, I'm pretty sure there will be a few who would instantly tell you about it, heck, if you send me a whisper, I would even tell you about their contact in a Messenger Chat Application.

    Ok now, Check box time,
    • No memes or videos. Use your own words to discuss the topic and try not to derail things. - Checked, no memes, no videos.
    • Don't link to any 3rd party programs. - Checked, no linking to any 3rd party programs.
    • Don't name any specific 3rd party programs. - Checked, did not name any programs at all.
    • Don't attempt to interpret the Terms of Service for others. - Checked, did not talk about ToS.
    • No witch hunting or calling out individuals. - Checked - No witch hunting, no name calling either, there's no names mentioned either, except for mentioning spacecats.

    I hope this clarifies on how that program works, and why people uses it.

    You are a war hero, couldnt say anything better or clarify anything better, my most honest bow for you, thanks!
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