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Patience with newer/ unskilled players

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Comments

  • Roly wrote: »
    My recommendation for newbies is, do not buy scroll lvl 60 that's all the rest is to be committed persistent and positive... learn you class playing day after day without stop and start from the bottom, do not apply to IM that is the most toxic [filtered] ever.... i like IM i love toxicity but is not for all kind of player... sorry for your bad experience.... let me [filtered] those who think they are toxic i take care of em shiiiiiiiiiiie :DDDD hahahahah....

    Problem with this is, the new leveling system allows tanks/healers to hit 65 under 24hrs using IMS. I had a full +12 guile priest tell me earlier they had a 13min cd on their rez and said use the gold rez. Sadly i had run that dungeon when it was new over 400+ times lol. There was no gold rez to be had.

    And yes level 60 scrolls are a massive problem for that as well. Cause hit 65 do a few red quests and bam full guile or solo aranea/arena/trials stuff, full misery.

    Even after many years of playing I still have hiccups and learn from them.
  • Evidently, the problem with 'newer' players is exactly what you're complaining about.

    The whole reason people who are more experienced may be iffy to train or be patient with you is due to your attitude; thinking the vets and so on are elitists for just expecting a functioning team mate in dungeons. You should never que for BRNM, VHNM especially. They have extensive mechanics that require you to have pugged it atleast once with an experienced group or guildmates. People are going to be even MORE hesitant if you go into a pug and say 'i'm new!' because that means you're one of two breeds of new player.

    1. The newbie who thinks she/he knows everything, can do everything and will not take other peoples advice i.e if they do, will be very snobby and rude about their mistakes. (I come across this alot, hence why I am not a fan of the 'newb' culture and have no patience.)
    2. The decent newb who actually listens, but will be so uninformed and blatantly bad its a burden and frankly an annoyance. These types can be taught/weened by the right people, but most of the playerbase will be irritated if you don't know essential things about your class, gearing, and the overall dungeon.

    The reason vets may be so hostile or you may find problems in pugs or guilds is for the reasons I listed above. Not every new player is as such, but it is bothersome to MOST(tm) people. I find it hard to be patient with someone who knows so little, because it's like talking to a child. I'm not saying this to be rude, but certainly attitudes on both ends are to blame for your bad experience. All you can do is find a guild who IS patient and willing to take the time to listen and teach.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have come to the conclusion that people on at least 2 sides of this deal have huge expectations of IM, and seems like some of the actual experienced players have figured it out:

    IM groups are bad. If you get good ones you're just lucky. Like said, hope for best, expect the worst.

    That goes for both. Some so-called pros that think they'll queue and just are entitled to have all EXP in their runs - delusional at best - and the newbies who enter there expecting a fun learning run - too high hopes there as well.

    IM is random, and random is... bad or good. Simply put, anyone bad mouthing BADLY some player underperforming inside an IM is just delusional about IM itself, if they want real pros with proven experience they just do an LFG. People in IM may be sub optimal, it's not a requirement to queue a dungeon for you to have experience. If it was you would only unlock it after certain LFG runs or after a tutorial quest through it (which honestly, a tutorial quest would be epic). That said, just be ready for traps, that's how it goes.

    Granted, many people lose patience when someone is in learning process, it's normal to not want to babysit people always, but if it IS IM they should be ready for that. Not cool? Talk it over or drop. Deliberate trolls or people who actually want to leave can get kicked, it's OK if that's the case. If you enter a group of randoms, you should expect it.


    Word of advice for who either doesn't have patience with suboptimal performances, learning players, or trolls:
    "LFG <dungeon name/acronym> EXP ONLY" optionally request gear level/enchant.

    Word of advice for who needs to learn the dungeon and is whiling to wipe over and over on the trial and error process, not in the mood for pros calling you trash:
    "LFG <dungeon name/acronym> LEARNING RUN"
  • 5H96Y49G6D5H96Y49G6D ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    I like how this turned from community is [filtered] needs fixing to OP a newb and should quit learning dungeons in IM.

    Here is your rock captain obv and in no way addresses his or her opions about the toxicity in this game. Naysayers white knighting game to death claiming this community is friendly all roses are full of [filtered] or tough but fair are full of [filtered]. This is just pve gunna claim PVP not toxic too? Full of [filtered].
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    (Long post, read at own leisure, TL;DR at bottom)

    Not sure if this is gonna make you feel better about your situation, but I would like to share it with you. Today, I have experienced something worse than players criticising newbies, which is dealing with elitists (aka players who think they're so good that they have the right to dictate how someone does something, with any deviation being a "crime")


    Here's the story:
    I had joined an LFG for VSNM as a priest, which had only stated "VSNM experienced only". I was in full guile +12, except for boots +9, but I had 423 ilvl and had cleared it before without much problems. The party also had a mystic, so even if I had [filtered] up somehow, there was still someone to cover healing. So yeah, all looked good so far. Fast forward to first boss fight, Darkan.

    Since this was an experienced party, I was expecting everything to be running smoothly, until someone [filtered] up at the 50% threshold. You see, the room where you're fighting Darkan in is surrounded by a fire donut aoe, and every once in a while, Darkan will attempt to silence the entire party, and then use a very large aoe (which cannot be iframed) to one shot whoever gets caught inside. You had to destroy one of the crystals around the room to make a safe spot within the fire donut to run to when he does this mechanic. However, if Darkan got his hp decreased to below 50%, all the crystals would reset, and so would the safe spots. It just so happened that while Darkan was doing this mechanic, one of the DPS knocked his hp below 50%, and as a result caused the safe zone to vanish, and cause us to take 20k/s dmg while standing in the fire donut. The mystic and 1 DPS died due to this, and a warrior, brawler, and I were still alive. Having never dealt with a situation like this where I would have to take constant damage (20k/s) to ress someone, I decided to wait it out till the crystal closest to the 2 dead guys was destroyed before attempting to ress anyone. The brawler was taking damage every once in a while too, so I focused on keeping the 2 other guys who were alive, alive. Then the warrior began to ask in chat, "Why're you not ressing?". I just replied, "How am I supposed to ress people in the fire?" Silence ensued, but I managed to ress the other 2 guys after the crystal was destroyed, and we proceeded to clear Darkan afterwards.

    After Darkan was dead though, for some reason the warrior was so pissed that I didn't ress the 2 dead players immediately, telling me "It's a double heal party, why were you not ressing?" (honestly have no idea what's his point here, someone mind explaining?), and gave the ultimatum that I would have to leave the party, else he would not continue onwards (funny, since the tank and dps were from his guild, so he could do as he pleased anyway). He then brought up the fact that my boots weren't +12, and had the audacity to question me about why I didn't +12 it, as if I was an employee of his and was obligated to justify my actions. I just told him that I couldn't be bothered wasting mats on gear that I would be changing, and he replied saying, "Yea, and I'm kicking you." (uhhh, okaaayy, but what's the link though?).

    So now, I had been unfairly kicked from a party which had only required me to be "experienced" in the dungeon, which AFAIK I was, and had my dungeon entry wasted for the day. Like any normal person, I felt unjustified and thus angry, but there was nothing I could do anyway so I had initially decided to let it go. However, when I opened up the LFG to see if there were other dungeons I could do, lo and behold, the warrior who had kicked me had an LFG posted "VSNM experienced T11 +12 and up @2nd boss". Seeing that just made my blood boil, since at that moment, I thought I had been cheated of my run since these guys actually wanted someone geared (for whatever reason, IDK) instead of the previously mentioned "experienced". I PMed him requesting an explanation, and he just replied, "I can play better on a priest than you. Do I have to use it to show you how to ress someone in the fire (donut)?" and then blocked me.

    /rant
    He could indeed be better at priest-ing than me, but like I have said, I had never encountered such situations before, and I had made a decision in the time of crisis based on what I HAVE experienced, which was to keep the other 2 players alive, and ress only when it was safe.
    Was that a bad move? Did I deserve to be kicked just for that? IMO hell no, though IDK what you guys might think.
    Also, based on his logic, why not kick the other 2 players that died, or whoever had gotten Darkan's HP to below 50% to have caused problems in the first place? As if all the fault was mine. If I had died along with the other 2, what then? From what I can see, it was his big ego that blinded him.
    /endrant


    So there you have it, there are players with worse attitudes out there than the toxic players you describe, even towards veteran players like me. Nothing you can do but to take it as a learning experience to improve on yourself, and ignore those players who have their egos so high up their asses that they think that anyone who can't play as good as them shouldn't be allowed to play with anyone else. I didn't mention it in my story, but I had spoken up about this issue in global just to get it off my chest, and got some help on how I could've ressed those dead members from well-minded players, so yeah, there are always players out there willing to help.

    TL;DR
    Toxic players will always exist, and you can be on the receiving end of toxicity whether you're new/unskilled or a veteran/skilled. Just learn to filter out what's good for you, then take that to heart and learn from it. Whatever else that you deem to be toxic behaviour, just ignore.
  • Haggard86Haggard86 ✭✭✭✭
    Those things happen at times, only advice I can give is to move on quickly and remember his name so you never enter a lfg with him again. if he wants to raise his blood pressure over a game, that's on him.
  • ArdireArdire ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Haloist ur a helluva better person than i am, mate, if it were me i would've instantly put that dude and his guild on a blacklist and make sure the word got out, ya feel me? i'm of the opinion that people will never learn or change without consequences.
  • @Haloist You can res people while standing inside the fire donut if you use Divine Respite first (basically restores a lot of ur HP over time for 10+ seconds) then pop Kaia's Shield right after the person gets up and it should be no problem.

    Now i think the people you ran with were kinda mean to you and im sorry you had to deal with that but you clearly werent experienced enough either because the 50% thing happens quite often.

    I think you should have ressed the mystic so they could have healed the people that were still alive while you focus on ressing the last person. Darkan does have a res aggro attack so you would have to wait for him to be locked in an animation before you attempt a res.

    Also I think you are kind of undergeared, this is not an issue if you really know what you're doing but you said yourself you ran into a situation you havent been in before. Take this as a learning experience so next time it happens you wont panic and know what to do.

    I hope this helps you for future runs on your priest. o>
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    @Haloist You can res people while standing inside the fire donut if you use Divine Respite first (basically restores a lot of ur HP over time for 10+ seconds) then pop Kaia's Shield right after the person gets up and it should be no problem.

    Now i think the people you ran with were kinda mean to you and im sorry you had to deal with that but you clearly werent experienced enough either because the 50% thing happens quite often.

    I think you should have ressed the mystic so they could have healed the people that were still alive while you focus on ressing the last person. Darkan does have a res aggro attack so you would have to wait for him to be locked in an animation before you attempt a res.

    Also I think you are kind of undergeared, this is not an issue if you really know what you're doing but you said yourself you ran into a situation you havent been in before. Take this as a learning experience so next time it happens you wont panic and know what to do.

    I hope this helps you for future runs on your priest. o>

    Thanks for the tips; it's the same as what global has given me, but I still appreciate it.
    As for being experienced though, anyone could've been lucky to have run the dungeon 10 times without players being dead in the fire, so I have reason to think that I was experienced to begin with. Also, not that I'm trying to make excuses, but if I were a mystic, it would've been impossible to ress people anyway, so I don't get what's the big deal really. Similarly, if it was hard mode, there would be no feasible way to ress someone in the fire unless the crystal was destroyed. What should matter most is that we - as a party - clear the dungeon, regardless of whether someone is able to play as well as another person. But yeah, I'll admit that I'm still learning, just like everyone else. Learning is a never-ending journey.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Ardire wrote: »
    @Haloist ur a helluva better person than i am, mate, if it were me i would've instantly put that dude and his guild on a blacklist and make sure the word got out, ya feel me? i'm of the opinion that people will never learn or change without consequences.

    What you said is true (for most people anyway), but I don't see any benefit for both me or the other party by making a big fuss about it. It would just bring the both of us down, since to some, I would be seen as a whiny little [filtered] and I get blacklisted, while to others, the other party was a complete [filtered] and he gets blacklisted. Moreover, people can change over time, so I think it's unfair for the other party to get blacklisted if he indeed has a change of heart in future.
  • LYC14LYC14 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    On top of the comments and tips provided by other players, I'll like to provide my thoughts on the end-game dungeons currently available in Tera.

    2- star dungeons: The Abscess (AB), Channelworks (CW), Kalivan's Challenge (KC)

    These are super easy dungeons, with bosses having low hp, damage, endurance and crit resist. There are few, if not none, mechanics to take note of, and even if there were mechanics, they can be safely ignored as they do low damage. People usually IM these dungeons to get a party faster and clear these dungeons more quickly. One is not punished at all for misplays, unoptimized gear and less-than-ideal handling of classes. You'll clear these dungeons to obtain the low-tier gear and jewllery of this patch, Tier 10 Guile.

    3-star dungeons: Velik's Hold Normal Mode (VHNM), Demonkron's Factory Normal Mode (DFNM), Kalivan's Dreadnaught Normal Mode (KDNM), Bathysmal Rise Normal Mode (BRNM)

    These dungeons are not as easy as the ones above, and there is a substantial learning curve between these dungeons and the previous ones. The bosses have significant hp and damage, while their endurance and crit resist remain low. For example, Veldeg in VHNM has >1.3b hp. Each bosses now have special attacks and key mechanics you have to play around, if not you will take hefty damage from them or even die to them. I will suggest you not to IM these dungeons unless you are experienced enough to be able to carry a low-dps party, if not fights would take a long time with all unexperienced players in a party. You will be punished slightly (yet it is still somewhat forgiving) for misplays and not perfecting your Guile equipment (+12 on all 4 pieces with all the correct rolls on each of them). You'll clear these dungeons to obtain the mid-tier gear, Tier 11 Misery.

    4-star dungeons: Velik's Hold Hard Mode (VHHM), Velik's Sanctuary Normal Mode (VSNM), Timescape Normal Mode (TSNM), Demonkron's Factory Hard Mode (DFHM)

    These dungeons are really difficult to clear for unexperienced players, and there is a steep learning curve between 3-star and 4-star dungeons. The bosses have significant hp and even higher damage, endurance and crit resist, increasing clear times in these dungeons. There is an increase in the number of special attacks and key mechanics in each boss that you must play around, if not you will die repeatedly and drag the party down. You shouldnt IM these dungeons, even if you are experienced, as just one or two unexperienced players can cause the party to clear the dungeons too slowly. You will definitiely be punished for misplays and not perfecting your Misery equipment. You'll clear these dungeons for crafting materials to craft the high-tier gear, VM9 Tier 12 Deathwrack.

    5-star dungeon (not out yet): Velik's Sanctuary Hard Mode (VSHM)

    It will probably be even more difficult and punishing than all the previous dungeons, with more unforgiving key mechanics and special attacks to play around. It will take a lot of focus and skill to clear this dungeon with some ease. You should not IM this dungeon, even if you are experienced, as just one or two unexperienced players can cause the party to wipe.
  • TankyHealerTankyHealer ✭✭✭
    1. If you are still struggling with 3 star dungeons then you really need to get some help from people. That means (mentioned here many many times) a guild, or at least a group of friends that is willing to help.
    2. Not sure if I'm right (skimmed through walls of texts) that you're a tank. Well I'm a healer and I used to get frustrated by bad tanks too until I made a tank and actually tanked. Tanking in this game is not easy, the learning curve is high because you have so little room for mistakes. Now that being said, whoever criticized you for "standing in one place for too long" probably means you were stand on a bad spot for too long. Holding the boss still is always good, who wants to chase and attack? However for example in DF first boss, Vera drops puddles every now and then and it would be a bad spot to stand in.
    3. People complaining/being toxic/kicking, whatever they do, if you really want to get better, you need to be able to get pass all the cursing and venting, and boil it down to the information that is actually important. There is a reason why people yell at you, it could be a legitimate reason, or it could be them that is being bad.
    4. Learn the class before you learn the dungeon. Like I mentioned before, if you struggle with 3 stars dungeons, then you really need to get people to help you, because at this you don't play your class to an OK level yet. 4 stars dungeon is when you really need to know mechanics, meaning you actually need to learn the dungeon, assuming you already learned your class.


    I've actually got a g friend (stranger at the time) asked me for my opinions as a healer on how they performed as a tank. I'm assuming they do that after almost every run and not surprisingly, this person went from "meh" to one of my pocket tanks now. Still getting there but he definitely getting there looking at how fast he is improving.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    @TankyHealer can confirm everything. Made a Lancer for some actual tanking not just DPSing front (sorry Brawlers just had to poke a bit, don't take it seriously), and yes it's a whole different perspective.

    I usually do new dungeons 1st on DPS, then heal last tank. The 3 perspectives are completely different, and really change how you see each task.
    I would even say that tanking is harder than healing, but this is partially because of my quite big experience as both a PVP and PVE healer, and pretty low experience as a tanker. So that's not so much of a point.
  • Haggard86Haggard86 ✭✭✭✭
    I mean if you really want a challenge, do what I did. Walk into vhnm with a misery lancer with decent accessories and crap innerware and tank for a group of behemoth warriors and valks.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Haggard86 wrote: »
    I mean if you really want a challenge, do what I did. Walk into vhnm with a misery lancer with decent accessories and crap innerware and tank for a group of behemoth warriors and valks.

    Tbh it's not really a challenge if you're a lancer in gear of the same tier. Lancer's skills have very high aggro, so unless you're completely new to the class, you should be able to hold aggro easily. You should instead try tanking with a brawler in similar gear against Behemoth DPS. Now that's a real challenge.
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