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Patience with newer/ unskilled players

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Comments

  • MinazukiMinazuki ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    Babit wrote: »
    Just dont say anything at the statt of a dungeon and you will probably have better results. I just went through what you described having started playing almost 4 months ago and now im one of the better zerks on my server. When you start a dungeon off by saying how bad you are everyone is going to focus on your mistakes and be much more agitated than if you were just another br that cant speak english. If someone says something about your performance thats when you tell then youre still learning and youre sorry

    My experience since 2012 in IMS was people who didn't say new in start would have more trouble if anything happen during the run = =
    ( if you don't tell other u are new, how could some friendly players teach you? sure I know there people also try to picky on u... )
    Now day I not sure since I am semi afk for almost 2 years. Log on and chat most the time lol unless friend ask me for something.
    I did notice IMS start changing around 2015. At least more and more rude people.

    Tera used to have a lot of friendly players yet most of them quitted...
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    Jinsoyun wrote: »
    Tera should create a more expansive catalog of written resources to help new players with end game dungeons

    While that would be helpful, the real problem is the massive skill level difference from leveling dungeons, 2 Star > 3 Star, I feel like Tera loses a very large number of newer players with this jump. Even though the jump from 3 > 4 or 5 may be as large and difficult, people are much more prepared for those jumps and the difficulties with the learning curve they are soon to experience.

    Currently :

    2 Star = You need to know nothing about your class, at all. Show up and get lewts.

    3 Star = You need to know what a I frame is and Yes your class has one. You need to know your dps rotation and have semi ok rolls on your gear. You need to know mechs at least somewhat. GASP, you may need to communicate at some point in this dungeon as well. In other words you cannot be a complete shtlord. For the casual player, the jump is so massive from 2 to 3 star that they simply have no chance without being in a guild or very determined.

    Currently: Create Character > Faceroll Dungeons for a day or two depending on class > Quests / Bams / 2 star instances for Guile. At no point has a casual needed to look at a guide or read a tool tip.

    Then casual new Tera player queues up for 3 star instance. Finally after 33 mins the queue pops, shortly after entering he / she is booted. Because our newb casual has no clue of what is really going on in many cases he or she just thinks that the game bugged (because ONE thing is for [filtered] sure they have encountered bugs while leveling), so innocently he or she queues up again. This time they begin the dungeon and wipe on the first boss. Everyone is now yelling at them asking why they did not heal !! "But I threw red [filtered] and I dropped a totem, what more do you want I am not a priest." New player is booted for not knowing his or her class or the instance.

    How many more times does new player x try this before they either:

    Find a guild to teach them
    Discover Essential Mana
    Give up on 3 Star and above instances because they are for "pros".
    Rage quit

    Progression should be a lot smoother starting with the level 60 glyph dungeons and steadily increasing in difficulty to make the transition from 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 as smooth as possible.

    Once you are consistently good at a 2 star dungeon you should be prepared to make the jump to 3 star, but a new player in many cases simply is not. In other words this game goes from being no challenge at all to even the weakest of players to a seemingly insurmountable challenge to average / new / lazy players.

    * My suggestion is increased difficulty for Glyph dungeons and 2 star dungeons to create a more seamless progression for newer players.

    DO NOT JUST BUFF HP POOLS.

    Actually if you played the dungeons properly during 30-60 (not using everful nostrum any other level 65 consumable, use the major ones to keep in line with level) while levelling you will realise that they are actually buffed a little in terms of damage in a sense that they can actually kill you now.

    Most levelling players:

    1) Rely way too much on Kumas' wins for exp

    2) Braindead OW storyline

    3) Barely scrapping through levelling dungeons

    And can still get to 65 without much difficulty.

    The difficulty curve drops intensely from 60 -65

    Not all plays with good ping. I personally play with 250ms average, and I used to get by till this patch (although it is mostly due to server desyncing and intercontinental route derping very hard rather than the lack of knowledge).

    But I feel that the difficulty for Labyrinth of Terror - Catacombs needs to be increased a little (they are way too easy compared to anything prior to that surprisingly), and 3 star decreased a little.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    aeee98 wrote: »
    But I feel that the difficulty for Labyrinth of Terror - Catacombs needs to be increased a little (they are way too easy compared to anything prior to that surprisingly), and 3 star decreased a little.

    They're too easy cuz they weren't buffed to the same extent as prior dungeons, probably due to the lvl requirement being close to 65 and BHS couldn't be bothered.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jinsoyun wrote: »
    DO NOT JUST BUFF HP POOLS.

    Yes, pls, we all love to fight bosses and all but just look at what BHS did with Bathysmal Rise. You get there bosses with a massive HP pool but not that hard at all.
  • BabitBabit ✭✭
    Im surprised i got such a negative feedback for my suggestion. I still stand by what I said though. I would like to respond to the real life scenario post.

    I have worked sales and management for years now. In a situation where you are new/unconfident but you are trying to earn someones trust the very last thing you want to do is say you are new/learning. Even if you give them the best service possible they are going to believe in thier hearts that they could have gotten better service because YOU told them they could by admitting you are new\inexperienced. This is how they will act/feel even as your more experienced colleagues pat you on the back and say they couldnt have done better. Its basic phycology. Lowering someones standards can be useful in some situation and maybe even the best way to go with groups that have a particularly brash outspoken member or 2. However i still just cant reccommend using it as a prop up in ims. If you really want people to like you crack jokes and tell them their costume is sexy. This will take you a whole lot further than "im bad"
  • ScrapScrap ✭✭
    fam, I would be more than willing to jump on board with learning/practicing (with anyone willing & decently mannered!!) dungeons or even battlegrounds ... it makes me so sad when people have schitty experiences in either. I've had my fair share of trolls (though, I've made friends with a couple of them, by being a little schit back or talking friendly to them which catches some off guard LOL) and it's just really not fun.
    && Just because it's "common MMO behavior" doesn't mean it's excused, and I know the chances of fixing that are extremely slim to none, but I feel like some of this tension can be solved anyways. :heart:

    so yeah, my offer stands for anyone!!
    (I'm mainly on FF server but I wouldn't mind leveling on others!)
    TERA shouldn't be stressful, it's not like it's your mandatory job that you have to do~
  • KarmaTheAlligatorKarmaTheAlligator ✭✭✭✭✭
    Babit wrote: »
    Im surprised i got such a negative feedback for my suggestion. I still stand by what I said though. I would like to respond to the real life scenario post.

    I have worked sales and management for years now. In a situation where you are new/unconfident but you are trying to earn someones trust the very last thing you want to do is say you are new/learning. Even if you give them the best service possible they are going to believe in thier hearts that they could have gotten better service because YOU told them they could by admitting you are new\inexperienced. This is how they will act/feel even as your more experienced colleagues pat you on the back and say they couldnt have done better. Its basic phycology. Lowering someones standards can be useful in some situation and maybe even the best way to go with groups that have a particularly brash outspoken member or 2. However i still just cant reccommend using it as a prop up in ims. If you really want people to like you crack jokes and tell them their costume is sexy. This will take you a whole lot further than "im bad"

    I disagree. From my experience, it's much better to say "first time here, don't know the mechanics, so bear with me" rather than get the group to wipe because you didn't know what to do (did both, guess which one was better received?).
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Babit wrote: »
    Im surprised i got such a negative feedback for my suggestion. I still stand by what I said though. I would like to respond to the real life scenario post.

    I have worked sales and management for years now. In a situation where you are new/unconfident but you are trying to earn someones trust the very last thing you want to do is say you are new/learning. Even if you give them the best service possible they are going to believe in thier hearts that they could have gotten better service because YOU told them they could by admitting you are new\inexperienced. This is how they will act/feel even as your more experienced colleagues pat you on the back and say they couldnt have done better. Its basic phycology. Lowering someones standards can be useful in some situation and maybe even the best way to go with groups that have a particularly brash outspoken member or 2. However i still just cant reccommend using it as a prop up in ims. If you really want people to like you crack jokes and tell them their costume is sexy. This will take you a whole lot further than "im bad"

    I'll not say a word about your work experience, and how the psychology on that case works, but I can simply say what did happen over the 3 years I've been doing IMs, 1st of which I spent sucking and leveling, the other 2 I've already been past the "git gud" part and can teach, and STILL am new to many dungeons (heck to my classes even, there's always learning), specially different POV like tanker:

    Just a while ago, I got back at my lancer, and tried tanking the new and old stuff to get at the whole tanking thing. 1st thing I did in every dungeon I ran was: "Heyya I'm rusty, sorry if I suck, I'll try my best". Guess how many times did I get trashed? 0. A nice none. After each boss I asked how I could improve and how it was. They told me honestly and all, and here I am, learning how to tank properly.
    Same deal happens with new guys who enter my runs. I probably already posted that thing about the TSNM run that some potato head hit a random ball and wiped the run, everyone cussing nonstop and all. No one said they were new, it just went with the classic wipe and wimps quit.
    In other hand most runs that start with a DPS or even tank that say they're new, barely ever end in wipe unless the player is terribly experienced on the class itself and only managed the base gear to queue. Why so? Cause exactly you lower the expectations, I'm mostly healer so I know I should focus on that guy more, tell out mechanics, they learn in practice, all happy.

    I ain't gonna tell you "change your opinion, it's wrong", it's not wrong to think differently, but it's a plain fact how my experiences have gone comparing both methods. You may have had different results hiding the "I'm new" than me. My results are these. In my experience it is highly detrimental when people hide their lack of experience.

    When you are actually better than the "Hi I'm new" moniker would make you think, then it's a nice surprise for both parts, and all fun all great. I've never seen people lose anything by showing they're new. In fact, the ones that are ready to trash new players or bad ones can get weeded out at the start of the run, before they end up being cancerous mid way if anything goes bad. They don't lose a run, they'll not be complaining, all win.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Babit wrote: »
    Im surprised i got such a negative feedback for my suggestion. I still stand by what I said though. I would like to respond to the real life scenario post.

    I have worked sales and management for years now. In a situation where you are new/unconfident but you are trying to earn someones trust the very last thing you want to do is say you are new/learning. Even if you give them the best service possible they are going to believe in thier hearts that they could have gotten better service because YOU told them they could by admitting you are new\inexperienced. This is how they will act/feel even as your more experienced colleagues pat you on the back and say they couldnt have done better. Its basic phycology. Lowering someones standards can be useful in some situation and maybe even the best way to go with groups that have a particularly brash outspoken member or 2. However i still just cant reccommend using it as a prop up in ims. If you really want people to like you crack jokes and tell them their costume is sexy. This will take you a whole lot further than "im bad"

    I won't doubt your work experience, but the issue I'm tackling here is not the problem of trust; it's a problem of getting people to understand/accept the mistakes you'll be making as a newbie. Tbh no one actually cares how good a player you are in IMS as long as you get the dungeon done while pulling your own weight. On the contrary though, almost everyone will care if you do not pull your own weight and as a result bring everyone down along with you.
    Dunno if it's just me, but I won't really like a person in IMS if he/she plays like [filtered] and doesn't warn the party beforehand, no matter how many jokes he/she cracks at the start of the dungeon. Putting on a facade (in an online game especially) serves no purpose really, since any experienced player can see through your tricks when you start engaging the boss. Be honest with me so that I know you're not hiding anything, and I might like you better.
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