[TERA Console] Patch notes for the upcoming v85.01 Update are now available. Preview all of the changes coming on August 11 here: https://bit.ly/TERACon_v85
[TERA PC] Patch Notes are now available for TERA's 64-bit update (v97). Check out all the changes coming on August 11 here: https://bit.ly/tera64_patchnotes
[TERA PC & CONSOLE] Summerfest Part 2: The Beach Bash is on from August 11 until September 1! Participate in event activities to earn tokens redeemable for costumes, consumables, mounts, and more! Details: https://bit.ly/tera_sf20

Ideas for improving existing BGs

11921232425

Comments

  • edited August 2017
    It seems like that on twitch PLAYERSUNKNOWN's Battleground published by BLUEHOLE is getting HOTTTTTTT and it is actually top 1 game in terms of # OF twitch viewer.

    We, Tera, can we make pvp like PLAYERSUNKNOWN's Batleground? suviving til end?

    don't know its good idea.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems like that on twitch PLAYERSUNKNOWN's Battleground published by BLUEHOLE is getting HOTTTTTTT and it is actually top 1 game in terms of twitch viewer.

    We, Tera, can we make pvp like PLAYERSUNKNOWN's Batleground? suviving til end?

    don't know its good idea.

    First we need to make sure Tera turns to the direction of competitive scene and for that BHS needs to make several changes in the PvP content, make equalized gear or uneq gear more balanced to have fair matches, make a better match making system, make requirements needed for BGs more strict but at the same time make the things needed being accesible for PvPers doing PvP content as PvEers have it in PvE content, bringback leader boards as several has mentioned and make class balance a priority so you can have the most equal and balanced PvP experience if that is going to come at the competitive scene.
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    gib wrote: »
    these two players are 1v1ing. the warrior has a near 99.9% chance of one combo-ing the priest. this is because the gear is wildly imbalanced in the warriors' favor. and this is not okay.

    i hope that this analogy serves its purpose well enough to explain what im trying to say.


    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    You can't one-combo anything as a warrior if you get bad rng and scythe doesn't crit because BHS decided to make its carving glyph only work against monsters.

    And why shouldn't warrior have a shot at one-comboing healers? It's basically the only way warriors can carry their weight in fraywind canyon.
  • gibgib ✭✭✭
    66ECX7NAN7 wrote: »
    gib wrote: »
    these two players are 1v1ing. the warrior has a near 99.9% chance of one combo-ing the priest. this is because the gear is wildly imbalanced in the warriors' favor. and this is not okay.

    i hope that this analogy serves its purpose well enough to explain what im trying to say.


    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    You can't one-combo anything as a warrior if you get bad rng and scythe doesn't crit because BHS decided to make its carving glyph only work against monsters.

    And why shouldn't warrior have a shot at one-comboing healers? It's basically the only way warriors can carry their weight in fraywind canyon.

    okay, how about zerkers one-shotting with e-smash or thunder strike? or valkyrie with dream slash? or archer with radiant arrow? or sorc with meteor strike?
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    I don't know if equalized gear is the problem there, or the buffs dps classes keep getting. (aside from warrior, whose skills for the most part have only been getting increased base damage in pve). If they buff radiant arrow's base damage by 25%, give it a triple carving glyph, then add +10% pvp damage to sniper's eye, and a skill that automatically makes archer back crit, then archers are going to be cancer for healers.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    gib wrote: »
    dps can defend but they cant heal back chip damage from trading with dps that are being healed.
    Yeah, which is why healers either have CC/immunities (mystic) or mostly immunities (priest) themselves when the DPS can't peel.
    gib wrote: »
    class balance has no place in what im trying to discuss. class balance doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things when the equalized gear is not even close to balanced. i'll try to break this down for you.

    a warrior in +15 deathwrack. pvp rolled everything to max efficiency.

    a priest in +15 deathwrack. pvp rolled everything to max efficiency.

    these two people are 1v1ing. is the +15 deathwrack warrior going to one combo the priest? probably not. because the gear is balanced to a point where both players have a near equal chance of success.

    now, lets take a look at the equalized gear.

    a warrior in the equalized gear with crystals and glyphs for max efficiency (since rolls are not an option)

    a priest in the equalized gear with crystals and glyphs for max efficiency (since rolls are not an option)

    these two players are 1v1ing. the warrior has a near 99.9% chance of one combo-ing the priest. this is because the gear is wildly imbalanced in the warriors' favor. and this is not okay.

    i hope that this analogy serves its purpose well enough to explain what im trying to say.
    Yeah, but if a warrior can't kill a priest in 1v1 at all then that is extremely unbalanced and makes no sense either. A warrior in eq gear needs some luck to kill a priest -- which is perfectly balanced and let me explain it further.

    A priest isn't just about survivability. If it was, he'd have no skills to heal others. You're comparing a scenario and want the priest to survive any class (well warrior) in 1v1. A warrior is not an AoE class so that's all it can do: pressure one target (more or less). While the priest's REAL utility relies in cleansing others, plaguing, healing others, providing shields like Kaia, and so on. How the hell is this balanced?

    A priest is not a "paladin". It's not supposed to be tanky and survive against any class, that's absurd. If it could, then lower his heals on others to pathetic amounts and remove such low CD cleanse and plague and so on. Make him a tank, a paladin. What games have you guys played? I've played games where healers cleanse was single-target only and had like 8s CD (and also it removed one or two debuffs, more chosen at random) -- and yet you think these healers, with such insane support, deserve to survive against any class 1v1, for real?

    Even BHS got the memo. Gridiron was, initially, an uneq battleground. They decided to lower heals because of how absurd healers are in uneq gear. Such a tanky class does not deserve to have such insane amount of support on other players. Healers expect that if they have bad teammates they're supposed to keep them alive while also surviving themselves, but that's [filtered]. DPS must absolutely care for both offense AND defense and no amount of healer proness should be able to get the noob DPS out of that corner. Yes I know it sucks relying on DPS as a healer, guess what? DPS hate relying on healers too.

    Healers in TERA always have been through the roof to the point where players got so used up with it that they think it's imbalanced if they get toned down a bit. Just because they've been spoiled for so long. It's as if Gunners at launch were complaining for getting nerfs because, well, "a gunner is supposed to one shot you with AB! it's a gunner dude!" or other bad logic not based on balance. They were used to imbalance.
  • VunakVunak ✭✭✭
    Borsuc wrote: »
    [Yeah, but if a warrior can't kill a priest in 1v1 at all then that is extremely unbalanced and makes no sense either. A warrior in eq gear needs some luck to kill a priest -- which is perfectly balanced and let me explain it further.

    A priest isn't just about survivability. If it was, he'd have no skills to heal others. You're comparing a scenario and want the priest to survive any class (well warrior) in 1v1. A warrior is not an AoE class so that's all it can do: pressure one target (more or less). While the priest's REAL utility relies in cleansing others, plaguing, healing others, providing shields like Kaia, and so on. How the hell is this balanced?

    A priest is not a "paladin". It's not supposed to be tanky and survive against any class, that's absurd. If it could, then lower his heals on others to pathetic amounts and remove such low CD cleanse and plague and so on. Make him a tank, a paladin. What games have you guys played? I've played games where healers cleanse was single-target only and had like 8s CD (and also it removed one or two debuffs, more chosen at random) -- and yet you think these healers, with such insane support, deserve to survive against any class 1v1, for real?

    Even BHS got the memo. Gridiron was, initially, an uneq battleground. They decided to lower heals because of how absurd healers are in uneq gear. Such a tanky class does not deserve to have such insane amount of support on other players. Healers expect that if they have bad teammates they're supposed to keep them alive while also surviving themselves, but that's [filtered]. DPS must absolutely care for both offense AND defense and no amount of healer proness should be able to get the noob DPS out of that corner. Yes I know it sucks relying on DPS as a healer, guess what? DPS hate relying on healers too.

    Healers in TERA always have been through the roof to the point where players got so used up with it that they think it's imbalanced if they get toned down a bit. Just because they've been spoiled for so long. It's as if Gunners at launch were complaining for getting nerfs because, well, "a gunner is supposed to one shot you with AB! it's a gunner dude!" or other bad logic not based on balance. They were used to imbalance.

    TERA is different from other games. For one Healers in other games are a lot harder to kill. Healers in other games generally have powerful HoTs, multiple shields, or through the roof single target heals that they can throw out rather quickly. Not to mention in other games DPS can take care of themselves easier than in TERA because they have self heals, or other defensive CDs they can pop to keep themselves alive (druids going bear for example). Also in other games their is CC immunity so you cant be chained stunned or slept and every class gets a CC break.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    If DPS in other games can heal themselves (and are generally more useful, relative to healers) that means healers deserve even less power in TERA to be "balanced" relative to a DPS. If a DPS can heal himself, a healer obviously needs to be better to be able to stay competitive (otherwise, imagine if DPS can heal himself as much as a healer can heal him, what's the point of healer anymore?). However if a DPS can't heal himself (or does it very poorly) then healers are, again, even more important/overpowered for filling that problem.

    Good point about CC breaks though, but I'm guessing TERA's staggers (in general) provide better peeling than most other game even for classes with no other "support skill".

    Anyway I find it pretty stupid for a healer to negate the damage of a class designed around one target (i.e. warrior) while still healing his teammates perfectly fine. Can DPS get buffed so that, while they focus on one target, others also get damaged behind them or whatever (not with AoEs, as if healers don't have heal immersion/circle/kaia etc)? It would be more fair then.

    It's not even only the squishiness that's the problem, but healers with CDR -- another over the top crap.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    @Borsuc

    Also need to say that other games where healers can compete against those dps harrassing them they get longer cd on their healing skills than Tera and there are even some games where a healer using a skill makes their other skils go for a cooldown of at least 2 secs before being able to cast again.

    Tera by the other hand a healer can make chain casting of skills regardless those being support of offensive skills and the only cd that is applied is the own skill without a penalty cd for using another skill already.
  • VunakVunak ✭✭✭
    Borsuc wrote: »
    If DPS in other games can heal themselves (and are generally more useful, relative to healers) that means healers deserve even less power in TERA to be "balanced" relative to a DPS. If a DPS can heal himself, a healer obviously needs to be better to be able to stay competitive (otherwise, imagine if DPS can heal himself as much as a healer can heal him, what's the point of healer anymore?). However if a DPS can't heal himself (or does it very poorly) then healers are, again, even more important/overpowered for filling that problem.

    Just because a class that isn't a healer has a defensive CD like a heal, that doesn't make them more useful relative to a healer. Healers have just as important of a job it just means that DPS can handle a stressful situation for a moment in case their healer is being focused or in a CC etc. Healers are still vitally important.

    In TERA the TTK is way lower than most other games, yet in other games the heals are still extremely strong. Healers in other games are generally stronger than healers in TERA.
    Borsuc wrote: »
    Good point about CC breaks though, but I'm guessing TERA's staggers (in general) provide better peeling than most other game even for classes with no other "support skill".

    Staggers are a good tool, but it isn't strictly defensive in nature and can be abused pretty good for offense as well, in the case of warriors, slayers etc. Where as in other games the CDs are used strictly for defense and staying alive. Not to mention the CC immunity that gets built up over time. Like the resolve bar in SWTOR.
    Borsuc wrote: »
    Anyway I find it pretty stupid for a healer to negate the damage of a class designed around one target (i.e. warrior) while still healing his teammates perfectly fine. Can DPS get buffed so that, while they focus on one target, others also get damaged behind them or whatever (not with AoEs, as if healers don't have heal immersion/circle/kaia etc)? It would be more fair then.

    It's not even only the squishiness that's the problem, but healers with CDR -- another over the top crap.

    You are right and wrong at the same time. A warrior being a single target focused class should be able to put a ton of pressure on a healer or any class for that matter. But that doesn't automatically make it so they should be able to kill a healer or another class for that matter because of that. They have the easiest CC to land in the game and the easiest engage with the most i-frames, yet they still put out very high single target damage.

    You can't just weigh one classes strengths and not the other.

  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    Vunak wrote: »
    Just because a class that isn't a healer has a defensive CD like a heal, that doesn't make them more useful relative to a healer. Healers have just as important of a job it just means that DPS can handle a stressful situation for a moment in case their healer is being focused or in a CC etc. Healers are still vitally important.

    In TERA the TTK is way lower than most other games, yet in other games the heals are still extremely strong. Healers in other games are generally stronger than healers in TERA.
    Right, because while DPS may not have CC breakers in this game, they can dodge, just like healers can. Most games have no concept of such a thing. You can't expect healers in TERA to heal as much as in tab-target games when every class has several dodges on low cooldown, it would make it a super stalemate everytime.
    Vunak wrote: »
    Staggers are a good tool, but it isn't strictly defensive in nature and can be abused pretty good for offense as well, in the case of warriors, slayers etc. Where as in other games the CDs are used strictly for defense and staying alive. Not to mention the CC immunity that gets built up over time. Like the resolve bar in SWTOR.
    Staggers are indeed able to be used offensively but I thought that was a given, seeing as how we were talking about lack of CC breakers in TERA.
    Vunak wrote: »
    You are right and wrong at the same time. A warrior being a single target focused class should be able to put a ton of pressure on a healer or any class for that matter. But that doesn't automatically make it so they should be able to kill a healer or another class for that matter because of that. They have the easiest CC to land in the game and the easiest engage with the most i-frames, yet they still put out very high single target damage.

    You can't just weigh one classes strengths and not the other.
    But he has to crit, which is perfectly normal. If a warrior does crit and gets luck on his side and he still doesn't manage to kill a healer, then he will *never* be able to do it. I don't find that balanced, at all. Makes no sense why a class bent on supporting others (main strength of healers, not survivability) is also unkillable in 1v1.

    Why not have a DPS that is also unkillable and kills a target other than the one on him? How would that be balanced? In 1v1 he'd never die and yet in a group fight he'd be able to survive one DPS on him while at the same time killing off someone else (same as a healer survives one on him while also healing someone else, basically doing 2 things at once, unlike the guy trying to kill him like warrior, doing just one thing at a time).
  • VunakVunak ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Borsuc wrote: »
    Right, because while DPS may not have CC breakers in this game, they can dodge, just like healers can. Most games have no concept of such a thing. You can't expect healers in TERA to heal as much as in tab-target games when every class has several dodges on low cooldown, it would make it a super stalemate everytime.

    Except there are games that have that, Wildstar for example. Has dodges, CC breaks and very powerful and strong healers. Crowfall has CC breaks, dodges and very powerful healers. You can even argue GW2 now since Tempest and Druid are a thing. No it wouldn't make it a stalemate, like I said, the TTK is much lower in TERA than most other games. It isn't like we are talking about a healer prancing through a field of daisies free healing whoever they want without any worries.
    Borsuc wrote: »
    Staggers are indeed able to be used offensively but I thought that was a given, seeing as how we were talking about lack of CC breakers in TERA.

    I don't even know what you are trying to say here now honestly. The point is you can keep someone completely CCed in TERA indefinitely if you so choose to do so. Healers being chain slept by a Sorcerer and a Healer is a very real thing.
    Borsuc wrote: »
    But he has to crit, which is perfectly normal. If a warrior does crit and gets luck on his side and he still doesn't manage to kill a healer, then he will *never* be able to do it. I don't find that balanced, at all. Makes no sense why a class bent on supporting others (main strength of healers, not survivability) is also unkillable in 1v1.

    Why not have a DPS that is also unkillable and kills a target other than the one on him? How would that be balanced? In 1v1 he'd never die and yet in a group fight he'd be able to survive one DPS on him while at the same time killing off someone else (same as a healer survives one on him while also healing someone else, basically doing 2 things at once, unlike the guy trying to kill him like warrior, doing just one thing at a time).

    What are you even trying to say here at this point? A warrior shouldn't have to crit to kill someone, they should just get a free kill is what you are saying? That is completely asinine. This is also untrue, the fight doesn't reset just because the warrior did one combo. A warrior has relentless pressure, they can keep people staggered and CCed even outside of their easy to land backstab combo.

    That is exactly what a healers role is, to survive and keep their allies alive... to help them survive. If games didn't want healers to be a survivable class then they wouldn't get self heals and their defensive CDs wouldn't be completely centered around themselves. A healers main responsibility is to keep themselves alive -- then their allies. Even in PvE, if a DPS is about to die and so is a healer, the healer keeps themselves alive because they are more important to the group as a whole. Same thing in PvP.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Vunak wrote: »
    Except there are games that have that, Wildstar for example. Has dodges, CC breaks and very powerful and strong healers. Crowfall has CC breaks, dodges and very powerful healers. You can even argue GW2 now since Tempest and Druid are a thing. No it wouldn't make it a stalemate, like I said, the TTK is much lower in TERA than most other games. It isn't like we are talking about a healer prancing through a field of daisies free healing whoever they want without any worries.
    GW2 is not a good example. The meta in there is laughable and is one reason I hate it to begin with. I'm seriously tired of "tankiness" and "respawns" personally (I mean, it's fully equalized, why do you think I'm not playing it anymore?). It's prime example why TERA should not go down the same path. Fast kills (unless interrupted or saved; you must think fast to save your teammates) and no respawns is definition of hardcore PvP.

    Can't comment on Wildstar since I've never played it. As for warrior, no I said it should have a chance to kill a priest with enough crits/edge, not have it impossible.

    Well I know we're not going to see eye-on-eye on this one, but I'm still posting just to keep the thread up.

    However, I find it absolutely [filtered] a healer can spam GS and still not be vulnerable because he's more than half the [filtered] time immune to stuns (uneq). Can't say I've played a game where you were immune to stuns more time than vulnerable to them as a healer. Is that "hardcode" PvP for you with almost no strategy at all on using such a strong skill properly? All I can say is "meh". TERA used to be hardcore, it's gone to [filtered] now without eq. Using a strong skill at the wrong time must be a very punishable mistake for me to even consider the PvP "good". Second chances are [filtered].

    Mana management is another laughable thing with uneq gear (i.e. too easy). Wait is it even a thing there?
  • VunakVunak ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Borsuc wrote: »
    GW2 is not a good example. The meta in there is laughable and is one reason I hate it to begin with. I'm seriously tired of "tankiness" and "respawns" personally (I mean, it's fully equalized, why do you think I'm not playing it anymore?). It's prime example why TERA should not go down the same path. Fast kills (unless interrupted or saved; you must think fast to save your teammates) and no respawns is definition of hardcore PvP.

    Can't comment on Wildstar since I've never played it. As for warrior, no I said it should have a chance to kill a priest with enough crits/edge, not have it impossible.

    Well I know we're not going to see eye-on-eye on this one, but I'm still posting just to keep the thread up.

    However, I find it absolutely [filtered] a healer can spam GS and still not be vulnerable because he's more than half the [filtered] time immune to stuns (uneq). Can't say I've played a game where you were immune to stuns more time than vulnerable to them as a healer. Is that "hardcode" PvP for you with almost no strategy at all on using such a strong skill properly? All I can say is "meh". TERA used to be hardcore, it's gone to [filtered] now without eq. Using a strong skill at the wrong time must be a very punishable mistake for me to even consider the PvP "good". Second chances are [filtered].

    Mana management is another laughable thing with uneq gear (i.e. too easy). Wait is it even a thing there?

    I will also keep posting because I want this thread at the forefront of EME's mind.

    Time will tell if TERA's PvP scene picks back up. I have a feeling with the new gearing system and changes that are coming, nerfs to Valk etc. that we are going to see a surge in the playerbase. Hopefully EME and BHS will have their act together when that happens to actually retain those players.

    As for GS, it doesn't make them immune to CC and is easily countered. They can still be completely harassed with staggers and KDs, which warriors have an abundance of.

    As for mana management, they have some pretty severe mana issues in both with pretty poor mana return skills. Mana Charge is their only real mana return skill which has to charge to use and it doesn't return all that much. Mana infusion goes away after they take damage or use a combat skill, so its useful for a very minor boost, but that's it. Mystics have their blue mote.

  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vunak wrote: »
    Borsuc wrote: »
    GW2 is not a good example. The meta in there is laughable and is one reason I hate it to begin with. I'm seriously tired of "tankiness" and "respawns" personally (I mean, it's fully equalized, why do you think I'm not playing it anymore?). It's prime example why TERA should not go down the same path. Fast kills (unless interrupted or saved; you must think fast to save your teammates) and no respawns is definition of hardcore PvP.

    Can't comment on Wildstar since I've never played it. As for warrior, no I said it should have a chance to kill a priest with enough crits/edge, not have it impossible.

    Well I know we're not going to see eye-on-eye on this one, but I'm still posting just to keep the thread up.

    However, I find it absolutely [filtered] a healer can spam GS and still not be vulnerable because he's more than half the [filtered] time immune to stuns (uneq). Can't say I've played a game where you were immune to stuns more time than vulnerable to them as a healer. Is that "hardcode" PvP for you with almost no strategy at all on using such a strong skill properly? All I can say is "meh". TERA used to be hardcore, it's gone to [filtered] now without eq. Using a strong skill at the wrong time must be a very punishable mistake for me to even consider the PvP "good". Second chances are [filtered].

    Mana management is another laughable thing with uneq gear (i.e. too easy). Wait is it even a thing there?

    I will also keep posting because I want this thread at the forefront of EME's mind.

    Time will tell if TERA's PvP scene picks back up. I have a feeling with the new gearing system and changes that are coming, nerfs to Valk etc. that we are going to see a surge in the playerbase. Hopefully EME and BHS will have their act together when that happens to actually retain those players.

    As for GS, it doesn't make them immune to CC and is easily countered. They can still be completely harassed with staggers and KDs, which warriors have an abundance of.

    As for mana management, they have some pretty severe mana issues in both with pretty poor mana return skills. Mana Charge is their only real mana return skill which has to charge to use and it doesn't return all that much. Mana infusion goes away after they take damage or use a combat skill, so its useful for a very minor boost, but that's it. Mystics have their blue mote.

    I am not really sure what kind of gameplay on PvP you are looking for but mostly for I can read about what have yuo posted is no the fast paced one but he one that will take longer to fulfill teams their objetives.

    If you lok for fast paced combat and great rewards/punishment for positioning and good/bad desicions then go for healers that can be killed in a second for bad teamwork, however if you like long timed combats where the only strategic is based on how much you can endure a long timed battle then go for healers that will be as hard like a tank or even more to kill and they will be ignored during all the battle because there will be no advantage to trow your attacks against him because it would be an useless effort.
Sign In or Register to comment.