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Ideas for improving existing BGs

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Comments

  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regarding the kick system revamp, I see there's quite some differences in how BGs work and how those should get access to kicking.

    One issue is the in-fight kick. If you do have one (or any number) of trolls that were just fine/OK during the wait time: you're gonna have to keep them there, carrying them while they either do nothing or downright try to ruin your match, with no option.
    I've felt a lot of those kick issues in both Kumas BGs (Kumasylum, please bring that back, and Kumas Royale), FWC and CS.

    In the case of FWC, the salt of kicking people cause they weren't from the guild in specific that entered the match with a pre-made was a thing, and specially the EQ gear guys kick back when it was a thing.

    CS in other hand had some stupid trolls trying to kick people at random without giving a single reason. This was almost always countered with common sense, and actual trolls, AFKs and bots could get kicked at new round start. But during the round in other hand? Screwed, deal with the bot.

    Kumasylum had unanimity kick during any moment of the fight. It was common to have someone purposefully feeding the candy, and that troll usually got kicked fast before he could ruin the game on purpose. In other hand common sense dealt with the "I don't like this guy, kick" votes. The big issue was the disbanding later on with Kumas team.

    Kumas Royale has that 120s timer + majority (I think 8 members?). Quite a few times I've had AFKs and bots that we couldn't kick because you only see this when fight starts.

    Iron has a LOT of DCs and AFKs, and like Kumas Royale you only see it when too late, thanks 120s rule.


    I would say that each BG has it's issues regarding kicking, but in few cases was the vote quantity an issue. I feel like the current majority vote system works, you get a balance of common sense countering the trigger-happy enter presses and trolls defending AFKs and bots. But the 120s rules is an issue in anything. I really can't relate when people say that "you have one troll/bot/AFK, no big deal" sure end of the day the entire "it's only a game" applies but I think it can get improved. This 120s rule in battlegrounds in unpractical. If you have a pack of trolls who'll kick you at the end of a game to not get a win even tho you helped, you'll have that at the start anyway. I think the 120s rule is the only thing that just has to go in any BG.
  • ArdireArdire ✭✭✭✭✭
    The objective specific extra awards would be amazing!!! As soon as I saw you list "guarded a ladder for so-and-so minutes" I was like... yes, reward people who do that so that we actually get people who.... wanna do that.

    But more importantly all the folk who abuse glitches and what not in CS need to be dealt with first, it's just inexcusable tbh.
  • ShinkouryuuShinkouryuu ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Spacecats wrote: »
    They are, I just want to keep the discussion focused on how BGs play and how they've changed (or could be changed) over time. Rewards are honestly a bit of an afterthought unless you're talking about changing how they're distributed during the course of a match.

    Just to throw out a couple crazy ideas...

    What if CS gave slightly larger rewards to players who completed small objectives during a match like:
    • Got the most kills.
    • Got the most assists.
    • Did the most damage to a gate.
    • Did the most damage to the anchorstone.
    • Capped an enemy-controlled pyre.
    • Was in a ship with 3 other people.
    • Killed three people with a siege weapon.
    • Guarded a ladder for more then three minutes.

    What if FWC had random elements thrown in like:
    • Boss BAMs that circle the map and create a moving hazard.
    • Randomized gate/fence openings that provide alternate access to the water.
    • Large 15-second buffs that overpower a team right after capping a pyre.
    • A single-use AOE rez ability for healer classes to turn the tide of a battle.
    • Additional raid leader abilities (like map scan).

    (Some of these would drastically change the way FWC plays out, but each individual thing wouldn't really need an overhaul of the battleground. FWC would still be FWC. You cap pyres, you kill BAMs and players, you get points to win.)

    I really like these ideas, being rewarded for objectives will keep people focused on what they have to do instead of laying around doing nothing at all.

    Actually a better idea would be: those who don't contribute a minimum amount of points don't get any reward at all, this way you will fix the problem with the bots and the trolls, since they will be wasting their time, instead of wasting the time of the actual players :)
  • In my opinion the best thing you can do to bring back Battlegrounds is to provide every player with a "Temporary Set" that they can customize and use ONLY in Battlegrounds.

    Example: Every single player can access to this "Temporary Set" window from their own character profile, lets say all the set will be Ambush +15, they can choose their own rolls on the gear, put an Etching Tier 4 from their choice, choose the desired Dyad Niveots on their gear (At no cost) Plus the other stuff as the Jewelry, innerwear, circlet and brooch.
    They can save this as a "Preset" and it will be avaialble to use on Battlegrounds ONLY, this way everyone and i mean everyone will be able to play Battlegrounds since they will be on the exact same level as everyone else (Gear wise) now all that is left is Skill and Class balance (that you can't address)

    Most people would love this change since it will mean that you don't have to grind at all in order to actually enjoy that part of the game, you just go online and straight to Battlegrounds.

    Anyway this game should be divided into 3 main parts:
    1. Open World Related Stuff (Where your gear matters) <---- This should be the only rewarding one towards gear matters
    2. Battleground Related Stuff (Where your skill matters) <---- This should be focused on Skill, Fame, Leaderboards, Cool Stuff to wear etc (Gear should NOT matter at all)
    3. Instance Matching Dungeons (Where new players can learn ANY dungeon easy mode) <---- Similar to #2 you can queue with a "Temporal Set" and play any dungeon just for the fun of it OR learning purposes, then you can jump into the real, rewarding one with your own real gear so you make progress on that field IF* that matters to you.

    This will encourage a LOT of people to play the game (or some portions of it) no matter how much free time they have.
  • JXE5356AKEJXE5356AKE ✭✭✭

    Actually a better idea would be: those who don't contribute a minimum amount of points don't get any reward at all, this way you will fix the problem with the bots and the trolls, since they will be wasting their time, instead of wasting the time of the actual players :)

    You know that this punishes people who sit at ladders right? Unless they actually implement what Spacecats suggested; in my mind it would be in the form of contribution points at least.

    While there are good ideas here, I would honestly like to know what is the likelihood of any of this happening? It took how long for there to be any response about un-eq Fraywind? PvPers have been asking for adjustments to equalized gear as well, for years, and that has felt largely ignored.

  • Sorry @Spacecats , but nothing motivating to take 30 minutes to win a CS to receive 5 t11 feedstock in the victory chest
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    As elitist as it sounds, I wish there was a way for eme to see who in these kinds of threads have rank history in 3s and fwc. There are a few suggestions ITT that are just...lolwut.

    But anyways, there are currently three major issues plaguing BGs:

    1. Fix the things they broke. Mainly restoring Pyre usefulness in FWC. Currently both FWC and Gridiron are too similar to one another due to the pyres in FWC being an afterthought. We don't need two BGs that both immediately devolve into zerg clusterf**ks 10 seconds into the match. Gridiron can be the Clusterf**k, FWC should have more tactics ( like it used to have ).

    2. Better reward balance. It should be just as rewarding to do BGs as doing PvE dungeons. Screwing this up often leads to a community issue where players who prefer one kind of content over the other either end up unable to find groups or gearing way too fast or way too slow in comparison to players who prefer the other content. When reward balance gets really bad, PvP queues just stop popping altogether.

    3. Valkyrie and Reaper are overpowered in group fights and need to be nerfed. It makes no sense that two of the best 1v1 classes are also able to crap out loads and loads of area damage and team stuns. Compare to say Warrior which is great in 1v1 but lacking in area DPS, or Berserker which is a melee king but has troubles dealing with ranged. Classes need a weakness. Classes without weaknesses are broken by design. This is somewhat an issue with all the newer classes but reaper and valk are the current big offenders.

    If BHS focuses on these then they might actually stop Tera from continuing to decline, and could then focus on the more interesting suggestions. Until then, huehuehuehue.




  • MiskuChanMiskuChan ✭✭✭
    Kiraboshi wrote: »
    As elitist as it sounds, I wish there was a way for eme to see who in these kinds of threads have rank history in 3s and fwc. There are a few suggestions ITT that are just...lolwut.

    That means literally nothing anymore, solo queuing to rank 1 on an easy overpowered class like warrior/reaper/valk doesn't make your opinion more legit.

    Equalise team 3's please, it will revive the bg overnight, take your cue from EU who just did this as an event and filled the queues up instantly.
  • ChsaliaChsalia ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Allow players to queue for multiple BGs at once.

    Seems fine, but with power hours it will probably just still be the same bg popping over and over. This would be nice to have though.
    Bring back unequalized FWC.

    For the current content, no. This is a terrible idea. Be really really careful about introducing non-eq to a bg.

    Your average player is going to have misery+12, etch 2s (if any at all), blue/low gold inners, non-bis accessories (probably not pvp rolled) etc.

    Your BIS player is going to have deathwrack/oblit+15, full etches, bis everything.

    Misery -> VM9 weapon alone is ~14% increase in base damage. Include everything else and the difference becomes ridiculous.

    The reason non-eq FW used to work was because gear gaps weren't as big (Eg strikeforce/NFPvP era) it was relevant to gear progression (FW/VM1 era).

    At the moment its incredibly difficult right now to actually progress via PvP. Someone who is in misery is not going to feasibly make deathwrack just from queueing FW all day. Not to mention etchings and everything else.

    If you want non-eq FW, then FW must be a viable path towards VM, and preferably the gear gap needs to be minimal.

    In other words, VM mats must be readily obtainable (not some random jackpot every few games). If you're worried about making this too easy for people to farm, you can simply add a rating requirement to purchase them (and add some sort of PvP currency). It doesn't need to be 1800s rating, just enough to divide between "VSHM" and "everything else" level of difficulty.

    Another alternative is improving the EQ gear. Give it roughly equivalent stats to VM9 (along with acceptable rolls, possibly allow us to save preset rolls?) and jewelry with stun reduction rolled on both.
    Improve vote kicking.

    The current ratio is probably fine. It doesn't change that much whether you raise or lower it (unless its by a huge amount).

    A better alternative might be to make it so the voted person has their profile automatically brought up. That way people can see if he's running PvE/No crystals and make a better decision without needing to find 1 specific person in the raid.
    Implement a post-game honor system

    Probably only works if it actually means anything. If people aren't rewarded for good behaviour (or punished for poor behaviour) then it doesn't mean anything. As a comparison, Overwatch has an honour system and nobody really cares about it past the first week of playing.

    Also be wary of people "farming" honor points via premades.
    Gate/BAM changes

    Sounds good. It might be worth lowering crit resist on FW bams so normal classes can actually crit them.

    Or even adding mechanics to the bams might be interesting.
    Adjust the point ratio in FWC to make pyres more important

    Definitely. Though part of the reason they're in their current state is due to kills being worth 100 each (+more for bounties). If you want pyres to be more important while kills remain that high then you would probably have to raise them to 300 and triple current point generation as well.

    It'll have to be a balancing act since we don't want 5min FW games either. (That being said, if eq gear is buffed to VM9 levels, it will be a lot tougher to get kills).
    Rewards

    Big one for last.

    So the idea of PvP rewards can be broken down into fairly simple concepts.

    1. People will only run content if they feel the rewards are worth their time (see: certain dungeons becoming incredibly popular during events despite nobody actually enjoying them). Because PvE exists in this game, whether or not PvP rewards are worth it will always be compared to PvE. This means doing well in 3v3, for example, should be rewarded on par with doing well in VSHM. As mentioned before, you can gate this behind rating, number of wins or even your proposed honor system.

    2. Rewards should scale UP not down. We want skill to be rewarded. Skyring should be giving greatest rewards because it requires the most effort and skill to win. It makes no sense currently that CS/Kumas give better rewards than "actual" PvP. Obviously you can't just give more gold/feedstock because then people would feed 3s to farm, but there needs to be stuff every step up so that your average CS player goes "hey I really want this thing thats exclusive to FW and higher BGs, I might try for it". In the past, this was stuff like Murderous Intent, Bloodrave, Killing Spree credits, etc. Moving up from CS to FW to 3s is a really big jump that needs people to step out of their comfort zone, and you need to give them a reason to do that.

    3. Losses need to be considered in the rewards. People will lose, and the rewards need to account for that. In the past, losses were worth ~70% the credits of a win, but currently they're 20% of a box. Additionally, this is not a simple "balance for 50% win rate". The "average" player actually shouldn't expect 50% win rate in FW due to the presence of premades.

    As an example, lets consider a situation where 1 premade (of 5) queues FW with everyone else being solo. The premade could probably expect winrates of 90%+ (lets say 100% for simplicity).

    This means every solo player has a 10/25 chance of being on the premade's team (and therefore winning). Which is a 40% winrate. Obviously this is skewed due to the premade having 100% winrate, but the point is that premades will lower the winrate of your average solo player, and this will become progressively worse the more premades there are.

    Finally, rewards are much more important than you imply them to be. You seem to believe that "making the battleground better designed" will revitalize the scene despite the same rewards. This is not true.

    As a thought experiment, if you were to half or cut out ALL pve rewards tomorrow, do you really think people would still run the same amount of dungeons? Would people really run VSHM if it dropped nothing?

    If you want to bring back the PvP scene, improving the rewards is vital. We're not asking you give us 5 diamonds every game. But we're asking for something actually worth our time and effort.
    Misc suggestions

    If you do happen to add in "random elements", please don't actually make them random.

    Random bams or gates will not be seen as interesting game design. They'll just be seen as "that thing that sometimes [filtered] you over".

    If the bams are on a set, predictable path (that is consistent every game) then that's fine.

    Also stay away from things like "Large 15-second buffs that overpower a team" and "A single-use AOE rez ability for healer classes". These types of things over-centralize strategy in competitive games. Fights will no longer be about good CC, lockdowns, etc. They'll instead be "whoever has most healers / best resses". If the pyre buff is a minor buff then that's fine, but giving anything that amounts to an auto-win is ridiculous.

    There also needs to be some sort of system to promote appropriate crystals. I understand people might want to take weird off-meta crystals, and that's fine. But taking anarchics/hardies into PvP simply doesn't do anything. Similar to there being an ilvl requirement to queue dungeons, you shouldn't be allowed to queue BGs with hardies / other PvE crystals that are just useless in BGs. There should also be something that tells new players what crystals might be ok for battlegrounds.

    Finally, please look into bringing back the leaderboards. There's no reason not to have them.


  • edited July 2017
    I love the idea of rewarding minor objectives. Especially for guarding ladders in CS, people never like doing this. As others and me already said, leading should be rewarded as well.
    The 'objectives' for FWC would be super exciting and fun, I'd love that!
  • @Spacecats @Halrath @seandynamite

    BOMBs in CS would be nice to do like 75% dmg of players HP (because of the achievements its impossible to get thoses today) BUT with bomb respawn longer than now because ppl would be able to kill the entire team in 15sec xD

    About FWC long time ago fwc was about pyres ( pyres > kills) and it was ok but not great, after bhs change to all about kill ppl started to do more fwc and like that thing more, keep that way please , thumbs up for increase de HP of BAMs.

    also about 3s would be awesome if we had a 1vs1 skyring (but cant match 1 healer against 1 healer).

    and to complete PLEASE PLEASE ABLE MULTIPLE QUEUES.
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    MiskuChan wrote: »
    Kiraboshi wrote: »
    As elitist as it sounds, I wish there was a way for eme to see who in these kinds of threads have rank history in 3s and fwc. There are a few suggestions ITT that are just...lolwut.

    That means literally nothing anymore, solo queuing to rank 1 on an easy overpowered class like warrior/reaper/valk doesn't make your opinion more legit.

    Equalise team 3's please, it will revive the bg overnight, take your cue from EU who just did this as an event and filled the queues up instantly.

    It's not about seeing who opinion matters more, but seeing who may be totally clueless. The actual number rank no longer matters, the problem comes in when you have people with absolutely zero rank history on any of their characters for any BG period. These people come in and make awful sounding suggestions about a gametype they never even play or understand.

    Now, you might think "wait a minute a person who does zero X content would have the common sense not to make suggestions on it."

    Unfortunately, you would be wrong. If you remember when the forums showed your mains stats + server location, you might recall a common phenomenon where people from Celestial Hills would complain about the PK system and how outlawing is just super meany poo poo head. That's right, people from a server that didn't even experience the system were complaining about a problem that legit doesn't exist on their server. And that's why eme needs to be super careful when deciding to post in a thread and listen to suggestions. Most players have legit opinions, but some are just blowing a stink about something which they have absolutely no experience of and absolutely no idea wtf they are talking about.

  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    I'd like to get some player opinions together on ways to improve the existing Battlegrounds in TERA. Mainly looking for medium and small tweaks to the maps and mechanics. Things we can suggest to Bluehole that wouldn't require major a overhaul, but would be great quality of life changes to keep BGs interesting. Think about what your idea would look like if you saw it written as a patch note.

    For example, here are some things I've seen from players in the past:
    • Allow players to queue for multiple BGs at once.
    • Bring back unequalized FWC.
    • Improve vote kicking. Require fewer votes and less time before a player can be kicked.
    • Implement a post-game honor system for players with great attitudes.
    • Increase the HP/Defense of gates in CS.
    • Greatly increase the damage done by bombs in CS.
    • Increase the HP of the Anchorstone in CS.
    • Increase the difficulty of BAMs in FWC.
    • Adjust the point ratio in FWC to make pyres more important.


    Regarding loot - if you have an idea for a new loot system to make BGs more rewarding, you can tell us about it, but the focus here is more on mechanics than rewards. Please put some thought into your idea and don't just suggest "better loot." We could hand out diamond dragons to every BG winner and it wouldn't do anything to improve the BG itself.

    Please keep the conversation constructive! Sarcasm and caustic remarks will be removed from this thread so that the discussion can stay on course.

    i dont agree with the bomb idea for cs, i would also rather that bomb, shield etc be removed in gridiron and just let it be a kill based bg on player skill etc than some one running in and [filtered] bombing the enemy team mindlessly. rewards should be better, winners bog giving 5 feedstock or one ore is useless and ridiculously poor for a winning reward/5 coupon box.
  • VorlonVorlon ✭✭
    Buff the bombs in cs. The original bombs were fun in that it forced people to avoid them especially healers. Revert the changes back to allow lowbies and max players to play on the same map.

    I would like the game to go back to the old gearing system. The old system allowed the player to buy pieces of fully crafted gear from the vendors.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Remove the stupid HP potion, 5 tier 12 fs, and 3 omin ore from victory box and replace them with better rewards pls.

    its not reward, its punishment. it discourages players to play and enjoy BG.

    Better rewards = motivation, its just simple as that.

    I appreciate your post but this isn't about motivating people to play BGs because of better rewards. The goal here is to get ideas from players who play a lot of BGs and collect ideas on how to improve the experience.



    Remember, whatever you do, this is PVP, people wanna win and get rewarded for it, for many Fun is not the most important factor when it comes to PVP, rewarding for the win they tried and worked for is their fun and goal. You don't give it to them, they won't bother.
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Eclipse555 wrote: »
    Implement a post-game honor system for players with great attitudes.
    - Not sure what this would accomplish

    It was a suggestion made to combat nasty behavior in BGs. There are a lot of toxic players that flame people every time they lose, and a lot of the time it goes unreported to customer support. Some kind of positive reinforcement could help the situation.

    PVP has been always an anti-fun part for many players, PVP is a serious matter, flaming at PVP is natural, if people don't have stomach then they shouldn't do it, yeah some players are toxic as heck, but still many of the attitude is the nature of PVP, many players don't report all kind of things because they know the nature of PVP, but I did report and many reports toxic players and those that needed to be reported, but it is good to have that honor system.

    Also you gotta reward the leaders more, you want a better experience for many players each game, reward leaders more, good leaders can do magic in these cases for their team and control their team attitude.

    So before we get to the details of BGs:

    1. Credit (BC/KS) rewards needs to come back, or massive loot adjustments to Victory Boxes, I deleted some old chars on CH, started new alts, I did 4 Kumas and got nothing useful from Boxes, before this stupid change, I was collecting credits for gold or anything my character will need for late game, now I get full of jackshets and they are no help to me for late game. As long as this exists, many will not bother with BGs, as a matter of fact, I even stopped leveling my alts, I stopped getting them costumes and stuff, having no reward for BG did that to me and remember I have Altitus and enjoy leveling but that alone killed the joy for me, so that is the most important factor right now, please get at it.

    2. Rewarding leaders, as I said, a good leader make all the differences, they can control their team, less toxicity, more coordination, so a more pleasant match, I have seen with good leaders even with loss, many players called it GG and had a good time. This matters also a lot.

    3. Honor system would do good, also accepting the nature of PVP is more important: PVP BGs is not a kindergarten play field, you might be called names at some points, or other stuff, there is a limit that many knows it, I agree that doesn't make it right in many cases but it is part of it, an example: those players that PVP hard and not going for objectives in Offense round of CS should be expected to be called names and be flamed at, because they are doing something very stupid. Players/DEVS need to understand, nature of PVP is that challenge and competition, Anti-fun for many but for strict pvper that is actually a reason to do pvp and enjoy it, so its nature is doing good to win the match, fun and pleasantries come later.

    Cheers :)

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