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PvE High Ping Builds: Can someone please enlighten me on how these are made for TERA?

@Spacecats A while ago, we had a brief discussion about skills being affected by ping. In case you reminder, I've quoted the main part of it below.
Spacecats wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
@Spacecats, for certain of the 3rd party programs, I've explained the major cause on reddit as follows:
Take skills like Rapid Fire, Burning Heart, Shield Barrage, Rising Furing and Burst Fire. - The majority of these are core DPS skills. - These all work through manual chain activation to themselves. That means ping is applied to each activation of the chain.

Taking Rapid Fire as an example, you can observe that some sub-40ms players can get all 7 hits off in less than about 0.8 seconds, where player with more than 100ms ping (which is the case for quite a few NA and CA players) would be lucky to get all 7 hits off in less than 2 seconds.

You might argue that the skill does the same damage. Yes, the skill does the same damage. What is different is that the lower ping player does that same damage in a significantly smaller amount of time than the higher ping player.

So, how could things possibly be changes so that with these multi-hit skills do the same amount of hits in a similar time irrespective of ping? Well, there are a two ways that I can see:

1) The 3rd party programs to emulate low ping. Yes, we know which ones. And it would seem that this is not a preferred approach by EME

2) Modify the way the skills work so they don't chain themselves, but instead into another skill, in a similar way that Traverse Cut for Warrior works. Why do I suggest this? Well Traverse Cut is multi-hit like the others, but all 13 hits just run by themselves at the same speed regardless of ping and you can chain out after the third hit into Blade Draw or iframe out if you accidentally used it when Blade Draw is not going to come off cooldown fast enough.

Is there a disadvantage to doing the second option? Of course, because it won't be a quick fix and at skills from at least 5 of the different classes have to be modified to accommodate for the change,

However, in doing this, I believe you would lower the need for quite a few players feeling the need to use a third party program as suggested in the first solution.

It can be pretty unfortunate for players with higher ping to use those skills, I agree. There are often "high latency builds" for glyphs and rotations that simply ignore those abilities in the case that your ping is so high that it affects them. That's not an excuse for why the skills shouldn't be changed mechanically, but there are workarounds. There are players out there that still do decent DPS (enough to clear hard mode dungeons) with those other builds.

I, a relative newcomer onto the multiplayer gaming scene at 3 years that doesn't work in the gaming industry, would like to ask you, an experienced manager in several games companies, on the back of this if you. or indeed the community, can share these "high latency builds" for PvE content. Preferably, I would like it done in the following format:

- Class:
- Skill:
- Low Ping Functionality:
- Functionality lost as latency increases, and the ping at which the functionality is lost:
- What is the workaround for the functionality lost? And does this make up for the functionality lost?:

Comments

  • CassandraTRCassandraTR ✭✭✭✭✭
    EME does not work on weekends. Try your question on Monday.

    An example of high ping build vs low ping build is archer. High ping archer will glyph fire trap and use it in your rotation/priority, and only use the first hit of rapid fire. There are plenty of builds on essential mana that go over various classes high ping/low ping.
  • DWDE6GFGWHDWDE6GFGWH ✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    EME does not work on weekends. Try your question on Monday.

    An example of high ping build vs low ping build is archer. High ping archer will glyph fire trap and use it in your rotation/priority, and only use the first hit of rapid fire. There are plenty of builds on essential mana that go over various classes high ping/low ping.

    Low ping archers also glyph the damage on those + use them in their rotation. Skills cast faster = can use more skills in rotation. Low ping players will always have a huge advantage and builds/other rotations wont fix that.

    There is probably someone else that can do the math for you, but I can assure you that high ping builds will barely affect your DPS to be closer to low ping players. This is not meant in a bad way, but Enmasse is not a good source to get this kind of information from.
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    I would like to hear more of what Spacecats has to say about rotations, glyphs, gear rolls, and so on!
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    So, let me get this straight, you want someone with 300 ms ping does exactly the same as a players with 30 ping and you say Spacecats doesn't know anything about the game?

    those with high ping already figured what they had to do with high ping, which class to play, which skills to play. That is not something strange with Spacecats words, if you haven't figured it yet, don't consider yourself pro then.

    You people act like you are good at this game, but you are not, you are just good at crying in forums for more damage and more mats.

    PS: In a bit we see crying posts to get lower pings too. YEY
  • PoofcatPoofcat ✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Sorry but if you think there's literally any game where a 200+ ping player is going to have the same smoothness and playability as a 20 ping player, you're wrong. That's not a level of "unfairness" exclusively from TERA that has to be explained away by a GM or CM, that's literally just what high latency and response times DO.

    A quick google search yields plenty of threads from both Reddit and TERA forums with general agreements on good classes for high ping, and skills to avoid with high ping. Plenty of Easily Accessible Class Guides actually mention the class's ping dependency/what to be aware of at high ping/effectiveness of glyphs/the class in general at high ping/notes on how skills work at high ping etc. depending on which you look at. It's not something Spacecats has to tell you simply because you dislike his statement.
  • czczczczczcz ✭✭✭
    - Class: Slayer
    - Skill: Headlong Rush -> Whirlwind
    - Low Ping Functionality: HR increases the cast speed of the next skill, which is preferentially Whirlwind, due to its long cast time.
    - Functionality lost as latency increases, and the ping at which the functionality is lost: HR will desync and cause the Slayer to teleport to the other side of the boss, often into the front where most attacks are aimed; ping varies depending on client-side issues (such as severely low framerate), lag spikes, and so on; typical threshold for extremely rare occurrences is ~80ms, with the issue becoming more common into the higher triple digits nearing 200ms. I've personally never experienced it myself at ~80ms.
    - What is the workaround for the functionality lost? And does this make up for the functionality lost?: Using Fury Strike's Glyph of Blaze instead of HR to chain into WW. FS itself can be used to chain into OHS, should it be up at the time, giving it another chance at being used after WW. HR is now usable for any skill or animation, including resurrection scrolls, or can be reserved for repositioning, location-based mechanisms, etc. I believe this may be a standard build in KTERA, but I can't speak to that for sure.

    Some slayers will also choose to use a glyph build that gives priority to Overpower-buffed Measured Slice instead of Heart Thrust, due to HT's notoriously bad hitbox (see This for eample) as well as the rare desync teleport-into-the-front. Overpower is given crit and additional damage glyphs, and MS is used either from an OHS/Evisc chain or slow-casted and chained with dodge roll to reduce delay. This takes advantage of the high crit rate of MS; the build approaches 100% crit on MS for most users, whereas Overpower -> HT suffers from lesser (or diminished, since power creep...) returns, due to HT's old additive crit factor glyph.
  • There are workarounds for ping already, that's why you don't hear the endgame community complain about it much.
  • so innocent :^)
  • XristosxXristosx ✭✭✭
    People can potentially suggest skill rotations and what not for higher latency builds, but whatever people can suggest, it will not compare to a low ping player. This game relies so heavily on ping that high ping players lose out so bad. A higher ping player(say 250+ms) most likely does 15-25% less dps than a 1-50ms player. So its not optimal and honestly it will cause issues in hard fights with dps checks on shields and stuff.

    So if your a newcomer with high ping and haven't invested much, i'd say avoid the game if possible. It's not worth getting into to deal with the heart aches of dying to some mechanics because you have less time to react to a mechanic then low ping players, you'll do worse dps because of the games heavy reliance on skills that combo one after each other because the game has no skill queueing in any form in the vanilla game so skills come out very chunky and slow. You have to iframe and dodge much earlier and have to know a mechanic coming ahead of time but with recent bosses that ktera is designing they are making them more reliant on a players reactionary speed rather than learning specific patterns (Mainly because they balance the game around ktera players which have 5-20ms at most).

    I'm a zerk player with 300-400ms (because of "recent" server fuckery the past "10 months") which goes down to 230-280 with wtfast. So this is coming from a high ping player with experience. So once again avoid the game if you have the chance while your fresh. It's not worth it.
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