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PvP High Ping Builds: Can someone please enlighten me on how these are made for TERA?

@Spacecats A while ago, we had a brief discussion about skills being affected by ping. In case you reminder, I've quoted the main part of it below.
Spacecats wrote: »
clfarron4 wrote: »
@Spacecats, for certain of the 3rd party programs, I've explained the major cause on reddit as follows:
Take skills like Rapid Fire, Burning Heart, Shield Barrage, Rising Furing and Burst Fire. - The majority of these are core DPS skills. - These all work through manual chain activation to themselves. That means ping is applied to each activation of the chain.

Taking Rapid Fire as an example, you can observe that some sub-40ms players can get all 7 hits off in less than about 0.8 seconds, where player with more than 100ms ping (which is the case for quite a few NA and CA players) would be lucky to get all 7 hits off in less than 2 seconds.

You might argue that the skill does the same damage. Yes, the skill does the same damage. What is different is that the lower ping player does that same damage in a significantly smaller amount of time than the higher ping player.

So, how could things possibly be changes so that with these multi-hit skills do the same amount of hits in a similar time irrespective of ping? Well, there are a two ways that I can see:

1) The 3rd party programs to emulate low ping. Yes, we know which ones. And it would seem that this is not a preferred approach by EME

2) Modify the way the skills work so they don't chain themselves, but instead into another skill, in a similar way that Traverse Cut for Warrior works. Why do I suggest this? Well Traverse Cut is multi-hit like the others, but all 13 hits just run by themselves at the same speed regardless of ping and you can chain out after the third hit into Blade Draw or iframe out if you accidentally used it when Blade Draw is not going to come off cooldown fast enough.

Is there a disadvantage to doing the second option? Of course, because it won't be a quick fix and at skills from at least 5 of the different classes have to be modified to accommodate for the change,

However, in doing this, I believe you would lower the need for quite a few players feeling the need to use a third party program as suggested in the first solution.

It can be pretty unfortunate for players with higher ping to use those skills, I agree. There are often "high latency builds" for glyphs and rotations that simply ignore those abilities in the case that your ping is so high that it affects them. That's not an excuse for why the skills shouldn't be changed mechanically, but there are workarounds. There are players out there that still do decent DPS (enough to clear hard mode dungeons) with those other builds.

I, a relative newcomer onto the multiplayer gaming scene at 3 years that doesn't work in the gaming industry, would like to ask you, an experienced manager in several games companies, on the back of this if you. or indeed the community, can share these "high latency builds" for PvP content. Preferably, I would like it done in the following format:

- Class:
- Skill:
- Low Ping Functionality:
- Functionality lost as latency increases, and the ping at which the functionality is lost:
- What is the workaround for the functionality lost? And does this make up for the functionality lost?:

Comments

  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    want me to make more of this thread :open_mouth:
  • I'm a archer main so i'll share my thoughts on arch and high ping eue.

    Class: Archer (master race)
    Skill: (I'll just be more broad as going through each skill is pretty taxing >.>)

    Charge shots
    Low ping performance: Pretty easy to aim and land on a target, no recoil delay or anything of that sort.
    With high ping: Landing the shot is still pretty easy if your still pre-200ish ping, but there will be a lag inbetween the time you release the shot and the time the shot actually leaves your bow. Cancelling with sequential fire is also an option but there will still be lag.
    Work around: No way to get around this sadly

    Stagger locks
    Low ping: Smooth as butter, can rotate between staggering skills easily and swiftly.
    High ping: Huge delay between staggering skills and the delay only gets worse as you gain more ping.
    Work around: Only use one stagger before going for CQ (close quaters), even with delay you should be able to land CQ quite reliably.

    Trap baiting
    Low ping: Isn't really affected by ping
    High ping: Isn't really affected by ping, but there will delay between the time the trap leaves your hands and the time you see it on the ground.
    Work around: Non that come to mind, maybe glyphing arrow volley for faster cast time on stun trap (I don't recommend this btw)?

    Kiting
    Low ping: Smooth af, and can save you [filtered] more times than not
    High ping: Not much delay from what i've seen, but not as smooth as low ping. May see some delay between the time you cast the skill and the time your character actually moves on the screen. It's still possible to do Stagger > backstep > stagger, however.
    Work around: Play with more distance between you and the target. Glyph charged shots for more range if you need to.

    Combos:
    High and low ping: Pretty much the same, I've been comboed by archers with 200 ping, I don't see too much discrepancy.

    Build: Both use the same build with some variation in glyphs such as using more range on charged shots.

    Overall: Playing with high ping isn't completely [filtered] and is pretty easy to deal with if you have the right mindset and enough experience. Still though, high ping and low ping archer is like two different worlds but that shouldn't really hender high ping players from excelling in PvP. Working around and getting used to high ping will be a pain in the [filtered] but you'll be fine. If you're an archer that is ;3
  • ChsaliaChsalia ✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Slayer

    High ping builds are really straightforward. You just pick the shittiest possible combo route because that's the only one that'll work. Sometimes there isn't one that works at all.
    Also Spacecat's comment is somewhat disingenuous. Understand that you will always be at a severe disadvantage, especially in PvP, and no amount of tricks or workarounds will ever put you on even footing.
    Functionality will vary with class. Some classes are almost useless on high ping to the point that I would recommend rerolling (which means a lot coming from a 200 ping elin slayer). Others still do somewhat ok.

    For Slayer, you must learn to feed off any chance you're given, any stun your teammates land. Because you will have a tough time getting anything done by yourself.

    Compared to a low ping slayer, high ping slayers are probably 30~50% as useful.

    Heart Thrust

    Consider HT 3 separate skills that share cooldown.
    I wrote a guide on it a long time back http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/slayer/topics/Step-Heart-Thrust-How-to-land-Heart-Thrusts-from-all-ranges?page=1

    TLDR:

    You can do HT (close) by holding S on your keyboard while doing HT. This will hit everything 0~4m
    You can land HT (medium) by holding W. This will hit everything 4~7m.
    You can land HT (far) by not holding any direction. This will hit everything 8~11m. This will always hit 8~11m regardless of if you get bodyblocked.

    Eviscerate

    Chained Eviscerate no longer hits anything at close range.

    The workaround is to do skills away from your target (to create room) such as reversed Backhand -> Evisc. Timed properly, HT -> Evisc still works (you have to Evisc before you reach the target). If you're unable to do a reverse skill then you just have to give up on the Evisc, because it won't hit.

    Overhand Strike

    On high ping you will simply have to skip an OHS per combo, because the stun timers won't last long enough, and it will desync Evisc (because you can't reverse OHS and still hit it).

    For example:

    Low ping combo - Kick OHS HT Evisc or Kick HT OHS Evisc
    High ping combo - Kick HT Evisc

    Stagger comboes

    Pretty much all of them don't work. They're also super important in slayer PvP.

    Combo1 -> Fury Strike can barely even be considered functioning. Fury Strike will miss point blank, so you need to angle it past your target. It's still pretty pointless because the only thing that true combos after Fury Strike on high ping is backhand.
    Combo1 -> HLR/OP -> Combo1 doesn't even come close to working.
    Fury strike -> Combo1 doesn't work.
    OHS -> Combo1 doesn't work

    Stagger chains not involving Combo1 still work (WW OHS, Evisc OHS), but aren't reliable, and you won't always have them off cooldown. They also won't true combo into anything except Evisc/MS.
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