Discussing Priest/Mystic balancing

So today mystics got a buff to their endurance debuff which raises it to 10%, like priest's triple nemesis. They also received an aura buff that, from what I understand at the time of this writing, exceeds the power and attack speed benefits of energy stars. This change comes in spite of the fact that mystic's endurance debuff is twice as long as a priest's, and mystic's aura is passive and doesn't take any effort to maintain. Because of this change, I thought a thread could be made where we discuss healer balance and the future of priests in a game where, for priests at least, there isn't much to look forward to (unless you enjoy having elements of your kit given to mystics and made easier to use, in which case there's obviously a lot to look forward to).

If the aim of today's change was to make mystic the "dps support healer", then that's fine. Creating distinct differences between the classes to define their roles is perfectly acceptable. But what of the priest? Are they really a carry healer still? Because if they are, then it stands to reason that skills like a superior lockon heal, vow of resurrection, and a longer endurance debuff uptime, should be in priest's kit-- after all, players resurrecting on their own, and the ability to heal constantly without worrying nearly as much about maintaining debuffs, sound like the hallmark of a true heal carry class. And yet, these attributes go to the mystic as well: it gets self ressing party members, long endurance debuff uptimes, passive buffs, and an objectively superior lock on heal while the supposed "carry healer" is stuck manually ressing each dead person (and then rebuffing them when they decide to get up), uses an inferior focus heal when their other heals go on CD from overhealing a trap group, and then on top of it all has to actively cast its party buff (estars) and remember its debuff (triple nemesis, on a nearly halved uptime of the mystic aura counterpart).

If we proceed under the assumption that two healer classes exist to specialize in certain areas, where on earth is the priest meant to specialize? If priest is truly meant to be a babysitter healer class, then cut its healing immersion cooldown in half, stop making its healing circle share a CD with restorative burst, give it longer endurance debuff uptimes so it can keep newbies healed without worrying about maintaining buffs, and give it vow of resurrection so the newbies can just get up when they inevitably die. If you want mystics to be a damage support class, then trade that off by making their buffs/debuffs harder to maintain; make the speed/power buff from auras an active buff again and cut the uptime of their endurance debuff in half. But that's just my opinion. What, if anything, do you think should be done to balance the healing classes out? Since clearly BHS can't [filtered] manage; they kept mystics in the doghouse for a year+ and now they're doing it to priests.
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Comments

  • I'm new to priest. Didn't even know that I had to keep up the Triple Nemesis debuff until yesterday, thanks to a guide. Seems like such a pain in the [filtered], not only is the cooldown on the skill not as long as the debuff, it's about 4 seconds less. So in addition to everything else I have to think of as priest, I can either count to four whenever I see Triple Nemesis cooldown come off and find a good time to use it or I can spam it when it comes off cooldown.
    I suppose that is what they intend priests to do, use Triple Nemesis on every cooldown in addition to dodging and watching everything else.
    When I logged on today, I had to relearn Zenobia's Vortex and Shocking Implosion. Lots of levels to the vortex. I think this is probably part of the design, I didn't see it in the patch notes so I got worried. I'm going to try to use Vortex and Triple in addition to everything else and see how that works out, as I'm still working on learning Misery dungeons.
    If they plan to buff mystic because people like mystic and they have more people playing mystic, that's fine with me. However, from what you said it sounds like they are making the mystic able to do better than the priest in all areas, I'd rather have the priest be a healer who just heals but from the game design that doesn't seem like what they were ever going for.
    As someone who healed in other games though, I think it's a bit disappointing that you have a more traditional tank class like lancer and not a more traditional healer class in the priest. I tried mystic and got a warlock vibe so I lost interest.

    If they really want priests to be doing some damage - things I'd like:
    -Targeted area of effect Shocking Implosion. It's the second coolest skill and the pitiful range makes it unreasonable to use
    -greater area of effect for Healing Immersion
    -Restorative Burst/Regeneration Circle are awful. I'd like a heal on Purifying Circle, preferably a heal over time percentage based so it's nothing special but feels like you did something.
  • feminziifeminzii ✭✭✭
    edited September 12
    when I read the changes I almost couldn't believe it but then I remembered it was BHS we're talking about here

    There were only two things I could think of to "justify" their decision as well as I could. The first is that "but ur a heal carry" argument, but it really doesn't hold for 90% of content anymore. The priest's "carry" potential isn't inherently useless - we could see that when SCXM was released many mystic mains struggled, but that was a temporary dungeon and no dungeon has been that difficult since SCHM itself. For every other dungeon, either class could act as a heal carry just fine. I'd been clearing 5 star dungeons via IMS with my mystic all the way from timescape onwards.

    The second thing was PvP, which is really the only type of content in the game where you can never have "too much" supportive power, so priests shine. I get that PvP is more relevant in korea than it is in NA, but the buffs to mystic aren't targeted towards PvP so this couldn't have been the explanation.

    As it stands, I see no logical reason to continue using my priest for PvE aside from sheer enjoyment (which is an important reason and why I won't be discarding mine), but I'll be nerfing every group I'm a part of and that just isn't a good feeling. Luckily, I enjoy both classes, so I guess I'll just wait and see how this plays out.

    I can't even say I'd like to see priests get buffed, in all honesty I would love to see both healers heavily nerfed to bring back some element of fun and challenge to the game for both healers and everyone else as well
  • XeirylXeiryl ✭✭✭
    edited September 12
    mystics got an auto lock-on helper as well (yes, on pc). i don't really have anything helpful to add to the discussion honestly, i'm just really pissed off that these changes were implemented despite any degree of common sense.

    mystics now contribute the same power and attack speed as priests WITHOUT having to continually cast estars or use up glyph points, get an extra crit buff on top of that, and have an equivalent endurance debuff that lasts 9 seconds longer than a priest's. if the class was braindead before, the lockon changes make it a [filtered] clown fiesta.

    i definitely second that if priests are supposed to be more carry-focused, their buffs and debuffs should have more leeway considering they'd be picking people off the floor so often. right now, there's such a feast vs. famine going on between the healers. at least in PvE, one class gets (almost) all the benefits with so much less work, while the class that has more responsibility when it comes to buffs/debuffs has almost nothing to compensate for the extra work put in. i haven't forgotten about kaia's and shakan's, but who wants that when you can instead have two different endurance debuffs, extra crit, and equivalent power/attack speed support that's also more reliable to keep up than estars?

    i'm just glad bhs hasn't tried putting out a new healer class yet, or we would have dealt with this absolute brain-dead dog [filtered] earlier on. this is really stupid to watch, because it doesn't take much brains to realize that this tilted the already tenuous scale between priests and mystics way out of balance.

    edit: i don't think the way to go is to continually buff classes to compensate for each other - but if changes are going to be made, there are some areas where improvements would go a long way.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    Basically:

    Priests give 25 power more than Mystics (better for Valk parties).

    Mystics give 2.2x crit factor (worth 60-86 CF, depending on class) more than Priests (better for almost every other class). No, Aura of the Merciless/Titanic Wrath is not better than Glyphed Energy Stars. Unglyphed, sure, but a lot of things are balanced around taking the glyph. Different classes have different core glyphs.

    Mystics have Contagion for much better burns/DPS for parties. They also have 3-person Vow. They will be better for 5 man parties DPS-wise.

    Priests have Kaia's for flat HP mechanic (like in VSHM Darkan with Relentless Crystals) and are generally better for healing in things like Harrowhold and PvP. Priests also have a faster res.

    Priests in KTera only also have a Crit Resist Reduction talent on Triple Nemesis (after hitting with all 3 casts), so they were much better than Mystics over there. KTera clearly only balances around having talents (see: Brawlers with 3s Haymaker during GF, Ninja with insane Chi generation and 0s cd Attunement, Slayers with multiple CD reductions on crits, Priests having a TN Crit Resist Reduction Talent).

    Priests are also rumored to become better than Mystics after their class Awakening.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12
    Desurage wrote: »
    I'm new to priest. Didn't even know that I had to keep up the Triple Nemesis debuff until yesterday, thanks to a guide. Seems like such a pain in the [filtered], not only is the cooldown on the skill not as long as the debuff, it's about 4 seconds less. So in addition to everything else I have to think of as priest, I can either count to four whenever I see Triple Nemesis cooldown come off and find a good time to use it or I can spam it when it comes off cooldown.
    I suppose that is what they intend priests to do, use Triple Nemesis on every cooldown in addition to dodging and watching everything else.
    When I logged on today, I had to relearn Zenobia's Vortex and Shocking Implosion. Lots of levels to the vortex. I think this is probably part of the design, I didn't see it in the patch notes so I got worried. I'm going to try to use Vortex and Triple in addition to everything else and see how that works out, as I'm still working on learning Misery dungeons.
    If they plan to buff mystic because people like mystic and they have more people playing mystic, that's fine with me. However, from what you said it sounds like they are making the mystic able to do better than the priest in all areas, I'd rather have the priest be a healer who just heals but from the game design that doesn't seem like what they were ever going for.
    As someone who healed in other games though, I think it's a bit disappointing that you have a more traditional tank class like lancer and not a more traditional healer class in the priest. I tried mystic and got a warlock vibe so I lost interest.

    If they really want priests to be doing some damage - things I'd like:
    -Targeted area of effect Shocking Implosion. It's the second coolest skill and the pitiful range makes it unreasonable to use
    -greater area of effect for Healing Immersion
    -Restorative Burst/Regeneration Circle are awful. I'd like a heal on Purifying Circle, preferably a heal over time percentage based so it's nothing special but feels like you did something.

    Priest dps skills are pretty negligible unless your party is just that bad and needs all the help they can get on a dps check or something. You should be focusing on triple nem uptime, energy stars uptime, using mana charge off CD, and (if you choose to glyph it) using restorative burst on your party for additional mana. In your downtime it's more beneficial to just lock onto people with your focus heal so you can heal them immediately when they get hit.

    I agree that restorative burst/regen circle are terrible skills that could use a lot of improvement. Definitely increase the healing over time on them, or maybe give an endurance buff to anyone in the circle, SOMETHING. Right now it's pitiful.
    Xeiryl wrote: »
    snip
    That's what I tell people whenever they go begging for a third healer class. Like, are these people high? BHS can barely balance the two they have right now and people want to see a third one. It'd probably blow the existing ones out of the water and do 1m DPS just for the hell of it.

    The auto lockon helper for their cleanse really makes me wonder what the devs were smoking, since they basically just gave mystic an easier cleanse as well. Again I must ask: what purpose does priest serve in pve at this point? Mystic is well on its way to becoming carry-healer material alongside having a full score-run kit of buffs, while priest has just a bunch of extraneous healing spells that most dungeons don't even require as Feminzii pointed out. It makes no sense to me. And this is coming from someone who also has both a priest and a mystic but mains lancer, so I'm not just saying this as some butthurt priest main. These changes are dogshit and the devs at bluehole have no idea what they're doing with either class.

    edit: I just logged in and compared my mystic to my priest and this is absolutely absurd. Mystic doesn't have to aim ANY of its target skills anymore, the game just locks on for you. So in addition to the game managing mystic's buffs for them, now the game manages their lockon aiming as well. Absolutely [filtered] pathetic. I remember in that healer-difficulty thread people were arguing that mystic was the harder class to play, and some of them even made a few good points, but now there's just no way you can say it. No way. On top of being the better class buff-wise, mystic is now so simplified and dumbed down that I'd recommend it to a beginner without a second thought.

  • mollyyamollyya ✭✭✭
    edited September 13
    Just noticed mystic's 27m volley of curse, 27m contagion and 30m titan's favor, 30m cleanse lock-on.
    Mystic doesn't need precise aiming for lock-on as well. Targets can be registered even if the mystic is aiming at this angle.
    QWV5LQw.png
    No more complaints about mystic's difficulty.
    Priest is a puny Shakan/Kaia bot in this patch HUEHUEHUE.
  • mollyyamollyya ✭✭✭
    edited September 12
    Obs wrote: »
    Priests in KTera only also have a Crit Resist Reduction talent on Triple Nemesis (after hitting with all 3 casts), so they were much better than Mystics over there. KTera clearly only balances around having talents (see: Brawlers with 3s Haymaker during GF, Ninja with insane Chi generation and 0s cd Attunement, Slayers with multiple CD reductions on crits, Priests having a TN Crit Resist Reduction Talent).

    Mystic had crit resist reduction talent for voc months ago as well. Mystic can move when casting voc rather than priest must stand still for 3 shots. Both healers are equal in this matter.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭
    mollyya wrote: »
    Just noticed mystic's 27m volley of curse, 27m contagion and 30m titan's favor, 30m cleanse lock-on.
    No more complaints about mystic's difficulty.
    Priest is a puny Shakan/Kaia bot in this patch HUEHUEHUE.

    This is some impressive work on the developer's part. Prior to these changes, we could at least have a fun debate over the benefits and downsides of each class, but now there's really no contest at all. Way to go, devs! :clap: :clap:
    Wish I could speak Korean so I could tell them this directly. Really only posting here to vent since feedback goes to BHS and from BHS to a trash chute.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    mollyya wrote: »
    Just noticed mystic's 27m volley of curse, 27m contagion and 30m titan's favor, 30m cleanse lock-on.
    No more complaints about mystic's difficulty.
    Priest is a puny Shakan/Kaia bot in this patch HUEHUEHUE.

    It's also the better HH healer and the better PvP healer.
    mollyya wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Priests in KTera only also have a Crit Resist Reduction talent on Triple Nemesis (after hitting with all 3 casts), so they were much better than Mystics over there. KTera clearly only balances around having talents (see: Brawlers with 3s Haymaker during GF, Ninja with insane Chi generation and 0s cd Attunement, Slayers with multiple CD reductions on crits, Priests having a TN Crit Resist Reduction Talent).

    Mystic had crit resist reduction talent for voc months ago as well. Mystic can move when casting voc rather than priest must stand still for 3 shots. Both healers are equal in this matter.

    Ya I just checked and it was added in a bit before.

    Either way, Kaia's is extremely good for PvE mechanics and Shakan is preferred over more Crit for Valkyries, which are the best DPS class right now.
  • ArdireArdire ✭✭✭✭
    where's my 500k kaia's....................................................
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭
    Ardire wrote: »
    where's my 500k kaia's....................................................

    While 500k is a bit much I do agree that 40k is hardly a shield. If mystics can get stuff as dumb as auto lockons and heals from 35m away, priests could get a pve buff to kaias shield, especially if they're considered a "carry healer". Anyone who's carried a trap team with a priest knows that kaias basically disappears the moment you cast it if the group is trap enough.
  • We're in the wrong region to give developer suggestion.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭
    We're in the wrong region to give developer suggestion.

    Feels bad, man :[
  • I do agree that this mystic buff wasnt really necessary... i expect BHS to actually buff priest ''soon'' as it took them like 3 years to make Mystics viable, We will see if they bring anything interesting with the awakening patch.

    As of right now, alot of priests skills feel old. The fact they need 10 glyphs pts, for a buff ( that can be staggered )that is the equivalent of mystic aura.. doesnt make sense.

    atm, mystic shines in 5 man parties.
    Priest is better for raids, PVP( except gridiron.. ) CU?...

    And that range increase.... i dont get it at all lol.
  • For the people saying priests are better for raid and group pvp, you still want both healing classes. You want more priests for sure, but it's not a super solid argument for the already weaker priests.
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