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IS the elite status (Subscription) p2w?

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Comments

  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    F2P games need to compel you to spend money, it's how they pay the bills. So, obviously, paying will always be the fastest and most convenient way to get places. As a free player, your only value is the time you spend on the game. Which is why they need to nudge you to spend more of it. Talking about lines in terms of "months" or "years" is absurd. 1 year can mean as many as 4000 hours played or as little as 4 minutes. 4000 hours of playing at a high level, doing the hardest and most profitable content at an efficient pace will also yield a different result compared to 4000 hours of only doing low tier content or doing content you can barely complete because you don't have the skill required to breeze through it. Which brings up the actually important question: What is "winning" in Tera? There is no competitive anything any more, so, what are you "winning"? Is it BiS gear? Or is it clearing all dungeons? Is it getting server wide recognition for your skill or is it having the most gold of them all? Some of these would require next to no time to achieve while others will require a lot of time. Some of them can be achieved by paying, others cannot. Tera doesn't simply boil down to a dragon mount, after all.

    which is all absolutely fine and true.

    Like I said, In all of my responses, I've never said "tera is p2w" or "they need to do away with those damned p2w dragons" or anything like that. I have no complaints about either. I simply acknowledged dragons as being much more of a "p2w" feature than elite is.

    How can you claim that a dragon is more p2w than elite if you can't even figure out what constitutes a "win"? I'm not even sure you can claim an item as "more p2w" in a game where nothing can be p2w as there's no winning in the first place. It's like saying "This fish is better than that fish at pulling a cart on a mountain road". Meaningless statement is meaningless.
  • PixelatorPixelator ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    JBGaming wrote: »
    If I might add a tid bit of input...

    Rightly said one person.....as an Opinion; It is pay for convenience in that I humbly, I agree.
    • The very same things you can buy from merchants to buff yourself, you get as being elite.
    • You get a much better mount than the beginning mount once you get to velika.
    • Depending on your purpose. You have the convenience of teleportation. Saved locations with the travel Journal. As well as bypassing the need to spend anything on a Pegasus ride you have the village Atlas which grants you that ability to teleport all over the world as you wish. As much as you wish. Note: that comes especially in handy during GVG and world boss hunting, events as pointed out recently
    • There are certain.. cosmetic items that you could exchange through the reward system for being elite should you get high enough reward credentials.
    • Ever so often you might be the lucky jackpot winner through the elite gift box in acquiring massive amounts of T? Feedstock, spellbind, MWA.
    • There are perks to having elite, such as those buffs always being accessible to you.
    You forgot the most important perk. No broker listing fee not only lets you make more gold out of your listings straight away, but also maneuver the market better. (Oops, the market moved and now your item is priced too high/too low? Glad you don't have to pay to change your price.) Also the double credits, while worth much more in the past, is something to consider.
  • TWMagimay wrote: »
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    F2P games need to compel you to spend money, it's how they pay the bills. So, obviously, paying will always be the fastest and most convenient way to get places. As a free player, your only value is the time you spend on the game. Which is why they need to nudge you to spend more of it. Talking about lines in terms of "months" or "years" is absurd. 1 year can mean as many as 4000 hours played or as little as 4 minutes. 4000 hours of playing at a high level, doing the hardest and most profitable content at an efficient pace will also yield a different result compared to 4000 hours of only doing low tier content or doing content you can barely complete because you don't have the skill required to breeze through it. Which brings up the actually important question: What is "winning" in Tera? There is no competitive anything any more, so, what are you "winning"? Is it BiS gear? Or is it clearing all dungeons? Is it getting server wide recognition for your skill or is it having the most gold of them all? Some of these would require next to no time to achieve while others will require a lot of time. Some of them can be achieved by paying, others cannot. Tera doesn't simply boil down to a dragon mount, after all.

    which is all absolutely fine and true.

    Like I said, In all of my responses, I've never said "tera is p2w" or "they need to do away with those damned p2w dragons" or anything like that. I have no complaints about either. I simply acknowledged dragons as being much more of a "p2w" feature than elite is.

    How can you claim that a dragon is more p2w than elite if you can't even figure out what constitutes a "win"? I'm not even sure you can claim an item as "more p2w" in a game where nothing can be p2w as there's no winning in the first place. It's like saying "This fish is better than that fish at pulling a cart on a mountain road". Meaningless statement is meaningless.

    at this point it's just semantics and taking phrases literally, which is fine to do if you want to, but to me does nothing for the point of the discussion. Besides, even if I were to sit here and only consider scenarios in which there is literally something to be won, plenty of those scenarios exist in Tera already- OW pvp, CU, some advantages even transfer into equalized BG's.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    F2P games need to compel you to spend money, it's how they pay the bills. So, obviously, paying will always be the fastest and most convenient way to get places. As a free player, your only value is the time you spend on the game. Which is why they need to nudge you to spend more of it. Talking about lines in terms of "months" or "years" is absurd. 1 year can mean as many as 4000 hours played or as little as 4 minutes. 4000 hours of playing at a high level, doing the hardest and most profitable content at an efficient pace will also yield a different result compared to 4000 hours of only doing low tier content or doing content you can barely complete because you don't have the skill required to breeze through it. Which brings up the actually important question: What is "winning" in Tera? There is no competitive anything any more, so, what are you "winning"? Is it BiS gear? Or is it clearing all dungeons? Is it getting server wide recognition for your skill or is it having the most gold of them all? Some of these would require next to no time to achieve while others will require a lot of time. Some of them can be achieved by paying, others cannot. Tera doesn't simply boil down to a dragon mount, after all.

    which is all absolutely fine and true.

    Like I said, In all of my responses, I've never said "tera is p2w" or "they need to do away with those damned p2w dragons" or anything like that. I have no complaints about either. I simply acknowledged dragons as being much more of a "p2w" feature than elite is.

    How can you claim that a dragon is more p2w than elite if you can't even figure out what constitutes a "win"? I'm not even sure you can claim an item as "more p2w" in a game where nothing can be p2w as there's no winning in the first place. It's like saying "This fish is better than that fish at pulling a cart on a mountain road". Meaningless statement is meaningless.

    at this point it's just semantics and taking phrases literally, which is fine to do if you want to, but to me does nothing for the point of the discussion. Besides, even if I were to sit here and only consider scenarios in which there is literally something to be won, plenty of those scenarios exist in Tera already- OW pvp, CU, some advantages even transfer into equalized BG's.

    OW PvP. lol. You can just say you didn't think it through.....no need to invent content. And it's not "semantics", it's the foundation of your claims. Contrary to popular belief, words do matter, what they mean does matter and using words without applying any sort of meaning to them makes your statements meaningless.

    Also, you do not win CU or eq BGs just because you have a certain mount. The mount is such a non-factor, you should be embarrassed those are your only examples. And that's because the dragon is not nearly as important as you try to pretend it is. It's a bit faster, flies a bit further and gives you a short crit dmg buff. It's not a must-have item, it's purely for big boys with big e-peens who want to have all the cool toys. Elite is a more useful item in general but it's also not a must-have. You CAN win any aspect of Tera without either of those two items(except maybe the most gold category where I imagine elite would be very very important).
  • aeyrebabyaeyrebaby ✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    OW PvP. lol. You can just say you didn't think it through.....no need to invent content. And it's not "semantics", it's the foundation of your claims. Contrary to popular belief, words do matter, what they mean does matter and using words without applying any sort of meaning to them makes your statements meaningless.

    Also, you do not win CU or eq BGs just because you have a certain mount. The mount is such a non-factor, you should be embarrassed those are your only examples. And that's because the dragon is not nearly as important as you try to pretend it is. It's a bit faster, flies a bit further and gives you a short crit dmg buff. It's not a must-have item, it's purely for big boys with big e-peens who want to have all the cool toys. Elite is a more useful item in general but it's also not a must-have. You CAN win any aspect of Tera without either of those two items(except maybe the most gold category where I imagine elite would be very very important).

    The content exists, it wasn't made up or fabricated.

    As I've said earlier, going by this strict definition of P2W, EME could add a non-tradeable consumable to the store that boosts account wide crit rate by 100 and it wouldn't be considered "P2W" because it doesn't automatically grant the player the ability to excel at everything they do. (In other words, they can still lose, so they aren't paying to win)

    If that's the way you define it, in a binary sort of "it either is or it isn't" sort of way, that's fine. I don't feel the same way. I see it as more of a spectrum. There are both small and large advantages to be had through spending cash, fortunately in Tera the advantages have been small.
  • 5H96Y49G6D5H96Y49G6D ✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Its not p2w

    Just dont get pressured to paying for it if u dont want too and if ur casual dont bother with Elite wont impact ur game like lets be real many of us got elite for the teleport everything else was fluff
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    OW PvP. lol. You can just say you didn't think it through.....no need to invent content. And it's not "semantics", it's the foundation of your claims. Contrary to popular belief, words do matter, what they mean does matter and using words without applying any sort of meaning to them makes your statements meaningless.

    Also, you do not win CU or eq BGs just because you have a certain mount. The mount is such a non-factor, you should be embarrassed those are your only examples. And that's because the dragon is not nearly as important as you try to pretend it is. It's a bit faster, flies a bit further and gives you a short crit dmg buff. It's not a must-have item, it's purely for big boys with big e-peens who want to have all the cool toys. Elite is a more useful item in general but it's also not a must-have. You CAN win any aspect of Tera without either of those two items(except maybe the most gold category where I imagine elite would be very very important).

    The content exists, it wasn't made up or fabricated.

    As I've said earlier, going by this strict definition of P2W, EME could add a non-tradeable consumable to the store that boosts account wide crit rate by 100 and it wouldn't be considered "P2W" because it doesn't automatically grant the player the ability to excel at everything they do. (In other words, they can still lose, so they aren't paying to win)

    If that's the way you define it, in a binary sort of "it either is or it isn't" sort of way, that's fine. I don't feel the same way. I see it as more of a spectrum. There are both small and large advantages to be had through spending cash, fortunately in Tera the advantages have been small.

    I think is meaningless to discuss if Tera is or isn't P2W, maybe KTera is P2W but NA Tera makes events that gives you all the P2W stuff from cash shop for FREE.
  • aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    OW PvP. lol. You can just say you didn't think it through.....no need to invent content. And it's not "semantics", it's the foundation of your claims. Contrary to popular belief, words do matter, what they mean does matter and using words without applying any sort of meaning to them makes your statements meaningless.

    Also, you do not win CU or eq BGs just because you have a certain mount. The mount is such a non-factor, you should be embarrassed those are your only examples. And that's because the dragon is not nearly as important as you try to pretend it is. It's a bit faster, flies a bit further and gives you a short crit dmg buff. It's not a must-have item, it's purely for big boys with big e-peens who want to have all the cool toys. Elite is a more useful item in general but it's also not a must-have. You CAN win any aspect of Tera without either of those two items(except maybe the most gold category where I imagine elite would be very very important).

    The content exists, it wasn't made up or fabricated.

    As I've said earlier, going by this strict definition of P2W, EME could add a non-tradeable consumable to the store that boosts account wide crit rate by 100 and it wouldn't be considered "P2W" because it doesn't automatically grant the player the ability to excel at everything they do. (In other words, they can still lose, so they aren't paying to win)

    If that's the way you define it, in a binary sort of "it either is or it isn't" sort of way, that's fine. I don't feel the same way. I see it as more of a spectrum. There are both small and large advantages to be had through spending cash, fortunately in Tera the advantages have been small.

    according to his [filtered] definition you could add in a thing in the cash shop that lets you 1 shot bosses and he still wouldnt consider it pay2win.
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    Ketoth wrote: »
    Just to point: 2.0 dragons can drop ingame if no one knows.
    Its a low chance on P4 HH, but still can drop, I saw 2 already

    But who does P4 HH without already having a 2.0 dragon that probably came from lootboxes?
  • 66ECX7NAN7 wrote: »
    Ketoth wrote: »
    Just to point: 2.0 dragons can drop ingame if no one knows.
    Its a low chance on P4 HH, but still can drop, I saw 2 already

    But who does P4 HH without already having a 2.0 dragon that probably came from lootboxes?

    well according to several comments, these are not needed, to do that raid so I doubt anyone in party would have them
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    LilMsQTay wrote: »
    66ECX7NAN7 wrote: »
    Ketoth wrote: »
    Just to point: 2.0 dragons can drop ingame if no one knows.
    Its a low chance on P4 HH, but still can drop, I saw 2 already

    But who does P4 HH without already having a 2.0 dragon that probably came from lootboxes?

    well according to several comments, these are not needed, to do that raid so I doubt anyone in party would have them

    Also 1.5 dragons are free handed in game.
  • yeah its pay 2 win you can do more dungeons get thing easier and you get free nostrum ( if you die alot this is really op because you will be saving yourself 5g everytime you die)
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    aeyrebaby wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »

    OW PvP. lol. You can just say you didn't think it through.....no need to invent content. And it's not "semantics", it's the foundation of your claims. Contrary to popular belief, words do matter, what they mean does matter and using words without applying any sort of meaning to them makes your statements meaningless.

    Also, you do not win CU or eq BGs just because you have a certain mount. The mount is such a non-factor, you should be embarrassed those are your only examples. And that's because the dragon is not nearly as important as you try to pretend it is. It's a bit faster, flies a bit further and gives you a short crit dmg buff. It's not a must-have item, it's purely for big boys with big e-peens who want to have all the cool toys. Elite is a more useful item in general but it's also not a must-have. You CAN win any aspect of Tera without either of those two items(except maybe the most gold category where I imagine elite would be very very important).

    The content exists, it wasn't made up or fabricated.

    As I've said earlier, going by this strict definition of P2W, EME could add a non-tradeable consumable to the store that boosts account wide crit rate by 100 and it wouldn't be considered "P2W" because it doesn't automatically grant the player the ability to excel at everything they do. (In other words, they can still lose, so they aren't paying to win)

    If that's the way you define it, in a binary sort of "it either is or it isn't" sort of way, that's fine. I don't feel the same way. I see it as more of a spectrum. There are both small and large advantages to be had through spending cash, fortunately in Tera the advantages have been small.

    according to his [filtered] definition you could add in a thing in the cash shop that lets you 1 shot bosses and he still wouldnt consider it pay2win.

    If you actually bothered to read the posts, you would have noticed that is not the case. I'll repeat, just for you: Tera is not a game where you can "win" in some sort of universal way. There are no score boards, no tournaments or otherwise competitions. That makes "winning" a personal goal and can be a variety of things. When there are a number of ways to "win" claiming that an item that helps in one very specific way is more p2w than an item that helps in multiple, different ways, is simply bs. When there is no universal winning, there is also no universal scale of "what's more p2w". And I kept asking him to define winning but, oddly enough, he failed to do so.

    Also, OW PvP is a thing. And you can win it. Because you have a dragon. Cute.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    feminzii wrote: »
    DeadX wrote: »
    prove me wrong snowflake? no? didn't think so. seems there's another no experience 'gamer' here.
    further enlightenment:

    i have experienced and played multiple pay to win mmo's, you CANNOT win without opening your wallet. you CANNOT gain the advantages other wallet warriors can through in game methods.
    that part is obvious
    the nonsensical and moronic part of your argument is that it is essentially "because I played game X and it was more pay to win than game Y, game Y has no pay to win features"
    and lastly...no one else could come along and say someone had to buy the emp lol. buying and selling emp is just as OPTIONAL as everything else. grinding or procuring the top gear is less optional if you want to "win". there are multiple paths to end game gear...even solo and not a cent spent.

    why can't they? going off your own dumb argument, someone could just as easily say that elite is P2W because the only way to actually obtain it outside an event is by someone swiping their card to buy it. as @aeyrebaby said, it's the exact same thing as you saying that other features aren't pay to win just because someone had to grind the gold. both arguments are equally moronic.

    no one could say elite is pay to win fool, WHERE'S THE ADVANTAGE TO WIN that you can't get in game? hmm? c'mon fool tell me. that was pathetic...i keep trying to explain to you snowflakes that you CANNOT win in a pay to win game unless you PAY. THAT'S the definition.

    do you understand english? let me try and simplify for you.
    PAY, to proffer currency TO an entity to WIN. what part of it's not OPTIONAL don't you understand? now tell me snowflake where in the cash shop is something that can let you WIN that no one else can acquire by any means in game?

    c'mon snowflake, tell me ROFL.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    Elite is the prime definition of "pay-to-progress-faster". You can clear all the content in the game (and in return get all the gear) without elite, but with elite, your progression doubles or triples depending on how you use the benefits.

    2.0 Dragons is however the prime definition of "pay-to-win" because unless you pay or buy out from a player who paid, you won't get the exclusive 2.0 buff.

    Elite can also be pay-to-win if you can't get enough materials for endgame gear without it, but in NA Tera this is far from the case.

    Character Expansion Slots can arguably be "pay-to-win" considering that they are your backbone of farming alts, but let's be honest these items are very cheap even if you buy them out with real money.
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