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What are the new Crit caps for classes?

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Comments

  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    What we NEED are those DPS meters BHS said might be released next year

    DPS meters won't give exact numbers. That can only come from getting the crit formula and the exact crit resists of bosses.

    Then I'm not understanding how DPS meters work--I guess I just assumed the program recorded how much damage you did from first hit on boss to last and then divided by the number of seconds in the fight?

    The idea of doing that manually--timing every fight and then going through the system tab to add up all my damage...UGH. But I guess it's more complicated than that?

    No. That's exactly how DPS meters work.

    They do give you skill breakdowns of how much damage a skill did, crit chances, damage numbers, etc. However, you won't get any exact numbers out of it regarding crit chances because we simply do not know the formula for crit chance nor the crit resist factors of the bosses. It won't help you find the optimal Crit:Power ratios because there's just no way to find out the exact % dps gains from Crit Factor without the formulas, unlike values like Power and %damage lines.

    OK, I guess I'm still not getting it.

    If I am trying to decide if setup A is better than setup B, and according to the DPS meter average dps was higher over 10 runs of the same dungeon with setup A, how is this not telling me which crit/power setup is better?

    I get that the borders are likely to be fuzzy, but I should at least get a range of acceptable/optimal values, right?

    Oh, actually I think I get it now. Are you saying that while +X CF is clearly ok, is +(X+1) better or worse--that is impossible to tell with a DPS meter alone, because of the large number of other variables affecting crit chance?
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    Catservant wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    What we NEED are those DPS meters BHS said might be released next year

    DPS meters won't give exact numbers. That can only come from getting the crit formula and the exact crit resists of bosses.

    Then I'm not understanding how DPS meters work--I guess I just assumed the program recorded how much damage you did from first hit on boss to last and then divided by the number of seconds in the fight?

    The idea of doing that manually--timing every fight and then going through the system tab to add up all my damage...UGH. But I guess it's more complicated than that?

    No. That's exactly how DPS meters work.

    They do give you skill breakdowns of how much damage a skill did, crit chances, damage numbers, etc. However, you won't get any exact numbers out of it regarding crit chances because we simply do not know the formula for crit chance nor the crit resist factors of the bosses. It won't help you find the optimal Crit:Power ratios because there's just no way to find out the exact % dps gains from Crit Factor without the formulas, unlike values like Power and %damage lines.

    OK, I guess I'm still not getting it.

    If I am trying to decide if setup A is better than setup B, and according to the DPS meter average dps was higher over 10 runs of the same dungeon with setup A, how is this not telling me which crit/power setup is better?

    I get that the borders are likely to be fuzzy, but I should at least get a range of acceptable/optimal values, right?

    Oh, actually I think I get it now. Are you saying that while +X CF is clearly ok, is +(X+1) better or worse--that is impossible to tell with a DPS meter alone, because of the large number of other variables affecting crit chance?

    10 runs is not enough data. There are massive differences between runs, even for consistent classes such as Ninjas and Archers because of things like skills not critting often, bad boss patterns/mechanic orders, and skill reset RNG. Classes can have the exact same crit factor and still have a difference of 5-10% crit chance.

    Differences of 10% are easily within margin of error.

    The difference between Crit/Power and Crit/Crit for many classes is also minuscule, but it's near impossible to actually see which one is better because of RNG and not knowing the mathematical average crit chance that you'll get. For example, a Sorc could go Crit/Crit and have 75% crit chance on Meteor Strike, but a Crit/Power Sorc can also easily get an 85% crit chance on the same skill. Someone could then say that going full crit is a waste, even though it was a high vs low roll comparison.
  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    What we NEED are those DPS meters BHS said might be released next year

    DPS meters won't give exact numbers. That can only come from getting the crit formula and the exact crit resists of bosses.

    Then I'm not understanding how DPS meters work--I guess I just assumed the program recorded how much damage you did from first hit on boss to last and then divided by the number of seconds in the fight?

    The idea of doing that manually--timing every fight and then going through the system tab to add up all my damage...UGH. But I guess it's more complicated than that?

    No. That's exactly how DPS meters work.

    They do give you skill breakdowns of how much damage a skill did, crit chances, damage numbers, etc. However, you won't get any exact numbers out of it regarding crit chances because we simply do not know the formula for crit chance nor the crit resist factors of the bosses. It won't help you find the optimal Crit:Power ratios because there's just no way to find out the exact % dps gains from Crit Factor without the formulas, unlike values like Power and %damage lines.

    OK, I guess I'm still not getting it.

    If I am trying to decide if setup A is better than setup B, and according to the DPS meter average dps was higher over 10 runs of the same dungeon with setup A, how is this not telling me which crit/power setup is better?

    I get that the borders are likely to be fuzzy, but I should at least get a range of acceptable/optimal values, right?

    Oh, actually I think I get it now. Are you saying that while +X CF is clearly ok, is +(X+1) better or worse--that is impossible to tell with a DPS meter alone, because of the large number of other variables affecting crit chance?

    10 runs is not enough data. There are massive differences between runs, even for consistent classes such as Ninjas and Archers because of things like skills not critting often, bad boss patterns/mechanic orders, and skill reset RNG. Classes can have the exact same crit factor and still have a difference of 5-10% crit chance.

    Differences of 10% are easily within margin of error.

    The difference between Crit/Power and Crit/Crit for many classes is also minuscule, but it's near impossible to actually see which one is better because of RNG and not knowing the mathematical average crit chance that you'll get. For example, a Sorc could go Crit/Crit and have 75% crit chance on Meteor Strike, but a Crit/Power Sorc can also easily get an 85% crit chance on the same skill. Someone could then say that going full crit is a waste, even though it was a high vs low roll comparison.

    Thank you, now I get it.
  • I have mained Slayer for 3 years now, but in this patch its better 300 total on crit or more. I have experimented on jewelry, crystals and everything much else and I do more than 50% on crits on all bosses (except HH since I haven't gone there yet). For me less than 300 on total crit, let's say, 250 total was hindering my dps by a lot.
    Right now my stats are are +256 crit and 200 total on power. I went with crit etchings and switched to crit 3/2 power jewelry and have gotten way better results with the Forceful crystal too.
    Slayer is a very forgotten class that hasn't been fixed as of yet and has been constantly nerfed. The way a Slayer works is that no matter how much crit you have you will never be doing 100% on crits on every hit like for example a Lancer or Brawler, but that doesn't mean it's a bad class, it would just be more difficult to manage as of now for new players.
    Slayer is a bad choice for dps for newbies right now, but not for veterans who know the rotations properly. I outdps all classes even with stormcry because most of them don't know their rotations very well (I have frost +0). If you know how to play slayer very well you will be doing more damage than the average player community (not insulting or degrading anyone, I have compared damage in many runs).
  • CalurCalur ✭✭
    edited November 2017
    8. Brawler: Haven't tested much with dungeons mid tier to high tier and think it through but I noticed less than +260 is hurting crit on Rage, Piledriver, Jackhammer a lot and you can see them not crit many times and you lose so much dps with fillers. Etching Energetic and pumped do real good.

    Depends on your glyphing goals I suppose but Haymaker should be a good portion of your DPS. With the 3x Carving glyph you shouldn't need more than 200 I believe? Without it I think you need well over 300 (316 sounds right but it might be more?). In general I don't think Brawler's glyph this? If you are one who does not then you pretty much should stack crit until you can't (except where you can get more than 0.5x in power). That should get you to the required amount.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    My lancer does fine with +230 cf. She could have +290 but I have her in a mixed jewelry setup to give her power as well as crit. I went with full crit for over a year, and after switching to mixed I noticed like, barely a 1~2% decrease in crit rate, if that, but my overall damage per second was much higher. Just throwin' that in there for consideration.

    edit: by "does fine" I mean she pulls over 1m/s at rk9 and at tr pulled like 1.8m/s before bothering to enchant gear. I'd be curious if players pulling higher numbers indeed go full crit; if they do, I might be convinced to switch back.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    voidy wrote: »
    My lancer does fine with +230 cf. She could have +290 but I have her in a mixed jewelry setup to give her power as well as crit. I went with full crit for over a year, and after switching to mixed I noticed like, barely a 1~2% decrease in crit rate, if that, but my overall damage per second was much higher. Just throwin' that in there for consideration.

    edit: by "does fine" I mean she pulls over 1m/s at rk9 and at tr pulled like 1.8m/s before bothering to enchant gear. I'd be curious if players pulling higher numbers indeed go full crit; if they do, I might be convinced to switch back.

    recently with triple drop, I used my lancer for GG, POP, Ace and I noticed it too, had +275 crit and I saw crit rate of skills doesn't improve much after +230 but with power overall dps was really improved.

  • 4. Archer: +235-250, under +230 you will see white numbers on critical skill such as RF, thunderbolt, RA. So definitely you will lose a lotta of DPS under +230. Etching I prefer Pumped but some players I have seen go for mixed energetic/pumped, depends on the builds and type of inner.

    So Deathologist my archer now has 60+ 180 crit factor plus etchings (power) is it sufficient or should i increase it at the expense of strength?

  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Recha wrote: »
    4. Archer: +235-250, under +230 you will see white numbers on critical skill such as RF, thunderbolt, RA. So definitely you will lose a lotta of DPS under +230. Etching I prefer Pumped but some players I have seen go for mixed energetic/pumped, depends on the builds and type of inner.

    So Deathologist my archer now has 60+ 180 crit factor plus etchings (power) is it sufficient or should i increase it at the expense of strength?

    Def not. I have been following the advice of +170 with mystic and +200 with priest , then go to power and I have to say I am very happy.

    +180 sounds excellent for mystic party, then you might want to go a little higher and/or throw on a carving crystal when you run with a priest until it feels about the same as with a mystic.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Recha wrote: »
    4. Archer: +235-250, under +230 you will see white numbers on critical skill such as RF, thunderbolt, RA. So definitely you will lose a lotta of DPS under +230. Etching I prefer Pumped but some players I have seen go for mixed energetic/pumped, depends on the builds and type of inner.

    So Deathologist my archer now has 60+ 180 crit factor plus etchings (power) is it sufficient or should i increase it at the expense of strength?

    Yeah, was talking about Archer with others, Death included, and during this event personally I tried and played with multiple classes.

    Something I noticed, You still can see White numbers +240, and you might see a bit more with +200, but the power will make things better in overall dps, just like Lancer. So I recommend +210 crit, power to increase the crit damage.

    I think in this new patch we gotta see white numbers more often than last patch and stacking too much crit won't actually help you this time, so power players an important rule.

    Only classes I noticed that really need +300 crit, are Ninja, Slayer, Zerk, Sorc. I can say with how I was doing since my ping is higher, power build helped me in all cases.

    About Valk, Energetic helped me more than power tho. I have way more Crescent and Ragnarok with double Energetic on Weap, Gloves. but as I said, I am casual, just my observations.
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