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Eclipse Potions, a long forgotten but immensely useful little potion...

A long time ago, back when health pots and mana pots had HP/MP over time, and took 1 and 3 minutes for cooldowns, there was another potion in the game.

The Eclipse Potion, one that reduced aggro you generated by a percentage depending on which one you made (ranged from Potion I to Potion V). This at the time was an incredibly useful potion when you were a well-geared DPS looking to do max damage, but not accidentally take aggo off of your mid-geared, still-learning-the-game Lancer who still doesn't have his/her rotations down yet.

I'm wondering @Spacecats or @Halrath if there is any, any at all chance that these potions can be reintroduced back into the game in some manner of way or another. With the advent of the Arsenal patch and several characters already in Stormcry gear, it can be really trying on new tanks to... well.... serve their intended function in the party when a +5 Stormcry Valkyrie is going full try-hard HAM on the backside of a boss.

I've been playing Lancer for ~1.5 years now and even now I'm still running into issues with people taking aggro away just simply because they're doing such ridiculous amounts of damage to a boss. My friend suffers the same problem sometimes with his Gunner in that he inadvertently takes aggro from newer tanks, and more often than not we find ourselves cursing not having an Eclipse potion on hand to reduce our aggro we generate on our DPS characters.

I was just curious because this used to be a thing in the game, along with Gather Faster scrolls and Crafting Speed scrolls (that ironically, people are now in desperate need of) but was removed a handful of patches ago. It was a craftable potion as well which would help up-and-coming characters looking to spec into Alchemy get their skill up while making useful things for their alts or guildmates.

Comments

  • I think it's better that it isn't in the game. If it's added again, it will be an excuse for lazy/bad tanks; it shifts the blame from someone playing their class wrong towards someone not willing to spend the extra gold on a consumable they shouldn't need in the first place. If you're not capable of holding aggro against the dps in your party, you probably shouldn't have joined that party.
  • vkobevkobe ✭✭✭✭✭
    but brawler killed eclipse potion B)
  • JerichowJerichow ✭✭✭✭
    I think it's better that it isn't in the game. If it's added again, it will be an excuse for lazy/bad tanks; it shifts the blame from someone playing their class wrong towards someone not willing to spend the extra gold on a consumable they shouldn't need in the first place. If you're not capable of holding aggro against the dps in your party, you probably shouldn't have joined that party.

    You assume everyone LFG's.

    The problem I'm talking about mostly stems from people not able to get into LFG's and who have to PUG, where you don't exactly get a choice. Like I said, I normally don't lose aggro in a dungeon except for a handful of really highly upgraded players, but on occasion it would be nice if people in upgraded Stormcry running LKNM would use one once in a while if they were available.

    The other thing is, there's a difference between being a lazy/bad tank, and simply not being good at your class yet because you're still new at it and haven't really had the time to practice with it. Let's be honest here, Tera's "leveling up" portion of the game is abysmally short beyond the point where it is detrimental to very new players in the end game. This would help alleviate their problems some if those of us with very high DPS could lower how much aggro we're drawing.
  • I think it's better that it isn't in the game. If it's added again, it will be an excuse for lazy/bad tanks; it shifts the blame from someone playing their class wrong towards someone not willing to spend the extra gold on a consumable they shouldn't need in the first place. If you're not capable of holding aggro against the dps in your party, you probably shouldn't have joined that party.

    I agree, if you can't hold aggro maybe you are still not ready for that party dps or content you are trying to clear.
    During kyra's I was running TRNM with my tank that only has mid-tier+0 (i'm healer main I use this char for IoD and stuff) to farm and get in lfg faster and several times I got in lfg with full stormcry+2-5 dps and held aggro just fine.

    It's probably better to just try to read a guide on how to improve tanking and have the right gear instead of asking to bring back an old item that has been discontinued from the game.
  • Totally agree, trust me, I've asked for this back since they announced it was being removed. I think EME doesn't have any control over it sadly.

    Also, yeah, tanks that want to be able to do their rotations and not have to aggro shout because some +5 stormcry gunner rips aggro with BV in a KDN queue are clearly "bad". Tanks that just hit ilvl and literally need to run mid tier content to upgrade their gear that struggle to hold aggro against marrowbrooch reapers amid shadow reaping are "bad". Tanks trying to reposition (and not doing that aggro shout and run away and stand there [filtered], actually hitting and moving the boss) to help the dps be in a better spot but a greedy valk won't let them move? Awful tank. Totally makes sense. It's not like pulling big dps affects aggro at allf /s

    I don't even tank, this is coming from a heal/dps main. I primarily queue since that's what makes this game fun, but even in some lfgs I or other dps pull aggro. Maybe you can argue that tanks should "gitgud", but 1. if they're horribly undergeared there's only so much they can do, and 2. if a tank is bad, there's nothing anyone can do about about them. We can't force other people to be less sucky. All we can hope for is that we only get punished as minimally as possible.

    People cry for us to get more tanks since there are so few but then qq at the idea of an item that could, you know, help people learn how to tank and maybe keep more people doing it instead of all the people that made brawlers but never play them/use them for IoD. Ohh wellllll.

    Either way, sadly, this was removed from the game on BHS' side, I don't think EME can do anything about it, and there have been plenty of threads on the topic. I'm with you though.
  • CornishRex wrote: »
    Not just that but you can't learn combos as a lancer properly if the aggro keeps switching every few seconds.

    I fully agree. They can't learn boss movements either because the boss goes berserk and does stupid stuff.
    I also agree that these potions shouldn't be an excuse for lazy tanks but I'm pretty sure no tank would be happy about having to ask the dps to use it.
    Also, new / learning tanks have it so much harder compared to any other role. It feels like they have little room for practice if they don't have a group of people they could run with. It would be nice having this potion so that they can learn. Or maybe increasing the aggro amount of green crystals would be an alternative.
    That reminds me of a low level dungeon IMS run I healed recently; with a top geared Sorc fully buffing with any buff there is incl. blue nocts (I repeat: low level dungeon) and the apparently new tank was told he simply has to learn how to deal with it. I'm not so sure if that was good way of learning tbh.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    So many things that were in game and were good stuff were removed by BHS :angry:

    I was using eclipse potion and was removing all aggro crystals and glyphs when was running friends, they were yelling at meh, nice memories. Now I look at my friend list those friends are gone, just like eclipse potion :confused:
  • 576JWJ75WP576JWJ75WP ✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Might be a bit off topic, but I've been in a party with people wearing Stormcry +2 while I was still on my Twistshard and I was able to combat this by replacing my pounding crystal with a threatening crystal as well as replacing some of my skill damage glyphs to aggro glyphs. I lose a bit of my damage output, but that's nothing compared to making your carry hit the back of the boss 100% of the time.

    Tanks shouldn't be afraid to use the aggro crystal and aggro glyphs as a tank, if they're not comfortable with the boss mechanics and/or their skill rotations just yet.

    Personally, I think this potion is very lame. It removes the purpose of improving your tanking capabilities.
  • TewiiTewii ✭✭✭
    The introduction of the Wrathful crystals and the consolidation of threatening crystals into 4x their original effect removed the need for eclipse potions entirely.

    If you are skilled enough you can hold aggro against someone two tiers of gear level above you. Brawlers and Warriors require a little bit of effort over Lancer, as Lancers essentially have a built-in Threatening as base rolls on their weapon, but it's doable.

    Lack of skill will always make you a bad tank. It's not because of the eclipse potion that you're lacking.
  • correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding that when they removed the eclipse potion, they changed the aggro equation to account for that so now it's as if every dps is using an eclipse potion.
  • Even with eclipse potions, new tanks will still lose aggro. However, a tank who has read a class guide and is actually trying to follow it is rarely (if ever) going to lose aggro, even against characters which are in much much better gear. The answer here is not eclipse potions, it's just getting people to actually learn their class once they hit 65. There's really no way to force people to play better, but losing aggro and getting yelled at is actually a pretty good way of motivating new tanks to learn their class. I agree that it's unfortunate that it causes anger and such, but that's just a part of life.
  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    I tanked as lancer a lot before brawler patch and I will tell you even with eclipse back in the day, I still had to work my butt off against +15 dps in party. Not that I was bad at the time but no matter how good of a tank you were back in the day, you were bound to lose aggro at some point even with eclipse. Lancer was also under-buffed at the time (no spring attack after certain chains, no block on wallop, no htl buffs, etc). Not many lancer tanks were around that time lol. I think warriors were better tanks at that time.

    I remember being in an aihm run sometime in 2015 and probably was during when gunner was released. I noticed I lost aggro quite a bit at one of the bosses, which I rarely ever do. Come to find out it was the +15 gunner in the party who did not use eclipse when a guildie told me. He refused to wear it so I was kind of mad and forced myself to use more consumables and I did fine for the rest of the bosses. It's just that I had work even x1000 harder than I already did.

    In another time I achieved the 3 min tshm kuma (during the old aggro system) but one of the player who played as +15 gunner, he wore eclipse and I never lost aggro except at the end when boss died. But I was also matching everyone plus having to be perfect because at that time it was kind of hard to control the boss when they push you to the wall and all you see is the boss's feet lol. At that time eclipse actually was very helpful to a degree but it would be a bit of a disaster for most tanks if aggressive dps were not using it. But still we as tanks had to work pretty hard against other skilled players even if they used eclipse because of the old aggro system formula.

    My point is that if you are tanking since after brawler patch, be thankful for the aggro system change because it is a lot easier to hold aggro by doing simple dps. If you are still learning or having trouble, it doesn't hurt to slap on a threat crystal and use aggro glyphs if you can; also using shout every 10 sec if you have to. With the current system and wearing a threat crystal, the modifier of your damage + the aggro percentage is much higher than it was in the old system.

    When I tanked (while eclipse was still available), I never knew if people used it or not in the party because I could not see it. My mindset as a tank was go in there and do my best no matter what. I got used to this a lot and really never worried about eclipse ever after sometime I got more experienced. It's not about get good or anything but I personally always looked to improve myself as a lancer and if I ever did something wrong, I would be serious in trying to correct it.

    Bringing back eclipse can go both ways. I only support this if it would help a lot of the newer players who are still learning or improving. It does add a safe cushion to the dps in party knowing that there is much lower risk for them to gain aggro and they can freely try harder to dps. The downside may be that as a tank you wouldn't know for sure how much you improved. Also some tanks would get lazy with this feature imo. When we had the system change for the aggro back in December 2015, there were complaints that tanks were getting lazier but little do they know is that they get judged on how their dps is nowadays, right? Also positioning, utilization of enrage, buffs, other things. Anyway just think about if eclipse was brought back. I mean it does help in ways but it also can be a double edged sword in some cases.

    I've also tanked with a brawler in my party a few times in this patch and I will say it's harder than my normal usual tanking. Not used to using shout and a threat crystal, I was forced to use them so a brawler dps doesn't gain aggro. But in a situation like that, eclipse would be pretty helpful but rarely do I favor runs to have another tank in the party to act as a dps.

    @Tewii
    Brawlers also have aggro on their weapon and not only just lancers. While true lancers also have aggro glyphs, they can also choose not to use them. So it would put them on par with brawlers too by having only aggro percent from the weapons.
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