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Permanent Crystal Bind Being Removed...[Discussion]

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Comments

  • Xristosx wrote: »
    Obs wrote: »
    How about leaving it alone until BHS can make a change?
    It just encourages anyone who really wants these achievements to cancel their Elite subscriptions because it's otherwise impossible to get them due to EME's decision to provide the CCB benefit in the previous way. Which is not a solution any business would accept as a viable option, whether that's what we might suggest or not.

    It encourages people who want you guys to change it back to permanent to cancel their elite subscriptions

    Counting me as "you guys" is pointless. The only reason I'm trying to explain all this [filtered] is in the hopes of understanding the arguments and proposing a better compromise, if one exists. Quitting over a benefit we went 5 1/2 years without given the compromise presented seems a bit much to me, but if you feel that strongly about it, you should quit and be sure to tell them exactly why. Maybe they could use that as leverage with BHS to put a real solution in place that isn't a workaround. Everyone agrees that the toggle would be better as a permanent solution.

    I count you are "you guys" because you are part of EME or if you dont want to say that then, your apart of the player council. I've had the game since launch but i've only been playing the past 3 years and the entire time we had 12 hour CCB in abundance, so why is 3 hour ccb's the solution? How is that a perk of elite, its like having a perk that gives you double the amount of gold drops and then removing gold drops from everything.... oh wait i forgot that happened 2 years ago and we still have double gold drops as a completely useless perk, but once again im glad eme is constantly tweaking elite to better suit their problems.
    NvbMyDQ.jpg
    Why this elite perk has to be renewed every three hours?? What is the point of it then? Its worse than 12 hr.

    Basically because one-day promo Elite is a thing, and they don't want people to use promo elite to get free 12-hour CCB on every one of their alts across all servers. If it could expire when the subscription expires, that'd obviously be another story.
    jackie%2Bchan%2Bmeme%2Bface.png

    I'm sorry what....did you read what you typed, Who in their right mind would be using elite just to get "free" 12 hour CCB's on all their alts.. what you can farm like one in a few minutes, I seriously doubt someone got one day elite for CCB's, you know what people would of got elite for? for a permanent ccb. Its called QoL things. Why bother having a travel journal/village atlas, you can technically teleport to all the cities in the game you just need a scroll, or maybe we should also change it to 24 travel journals and 24 village atlases every day, why not put a 3 hour mount as the elite daily thing, or why not have only 1 free ghillie scroll.
    The real issue is that we were given something and everyone was happy with it and now you decided the best plan of action was taking it away and giving us a worse solution and thought we would be fine with that? What is this madness. Like theres been some decisions in the past thats annoyed me, but this takes the cake. This is such a lack of understanding of the game.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Obs wrote: »
    How about leaving it alone until BHS can make a change?
    It just encourages anyone who really wants these achievements to cancel their Elite subscriptions because it's otherwise impossible to get them due to EME's decision to provide the CCB benefit in the previous way. Which is not a solution any business would accept as a viable option, whether that's what we might suggest or not.

    Cancelling for 10 minutes for every character they care about before renewing is pretty different.
  • edited December 2017
    Seriously? That's your reason, saving 50 gold per character once? When promo events that give 1-Day Elite also tend to give out gems worth thousands?
    wow! a one day promo elite to scam the system out of... a maximum of like 5k gold? assuming 18 characters per server? next you'll be telling me they're changing nostrums to 5 minutes
    Xristosx wrote: »
    I'm sorry what....did you read what you typed, Who in their right mind would be using elite just to get "free" 12 hour CCB's on all their alts.. what you can farm like one in a few minutes, I seriously doubt someone got one day elite for CCB's, you know what people would of got elite for? for a permanent ccb.

    I'm just explaining why they did that -- because they give you 24x every day so that every character on an account can get one (plus extra). Giving 24x12 hours would be 12 days worth, per server, per day. They'll consider that major overkill because no one could possibly need that much.

    I also said repeatedly that I want the toggle or for them to remove the achievements, as I want the always-on CCB. But if you ask why did they do it... that's why. So give me a convincing argument why it should be 12, other than "I can already get 12-hour CCB in game for cheap anyway" -- which isn't really a convincing argument to change anything if it's plentiful. Trying to convince anyone that pressing a button every 3 hours is so burdensome is also an extremely tough sell, or that you're going to cancel Elite because of a benefit that didn't even exist for 5 1/2 years. You're not really selling the need for the change at all.

    Again, I'm not doing this to "defend EME." I've already advocated for the toggle or removing the achievement! But if you can't convince me of your argument, it's not likely to convince them to change the compromise for now. And they're not going to argue about it; they're just going to ignore it and move on with their lives because it's "good enough" considering their goals. So make a convincing argument, finally.
  • StitchedSoulStitchedSoul ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    this is so miserable...i can't believe it. And this is the reason they spoil this perk to so big amount of players? because they dont want to give 12hr of ccb that worth 5 gold to buy be used without pay? So they ruin all to people who actually in most paying money and begging for normal worthy perk so they could continue giving their money? From all existing ways they chosen the worst.

    Do they really think we can't buy ccb??
    When they will understand that the point was NOT in amount of ccb its duration and the method of delivery. It was in fact that WE DONT NEED TO TRACK this pointless thing!
    (marked caps not for scream but for highlight this thought. No misunderstanding allowed).

    I feel sick from eme. Have nothing else to say.

    Good luck.
  • Seriously? That's your reason, saving 50 gold per character once? When promo events that give 1-Day Elite also tend to give out gems worth thousands?
    wow! a one day promo elite to scam the system out of... a maximum of like 5k gold? assuming 18 characters per server? next you'll be telling me they're changing nostrums to 5 minutes
    Xristosx wrote: »
    I'm sorry what....did you read what you typed, Who in their right mind would be using elite just to get "free" 12 hour CCB's on all their alts.. what you can farm like one in a few minutes, I seriously doubt someone got one day elite for CCB's, you know what people would of got elite for? for a permanent ccb.

    I'm just explaining why they did that -- because they give you 24x every day so that every character on an account can get one. Giving 24x12 hours is 12 days worth, per server per day.

    I also said repeatedly that I want the toggle or for them to remove the achievements. But if you ask why did they do it... that's why. So give me a convincing argument why it should be 12, other than "I can already get 12-hour CCB in game for cheap anyway" -- which isn't really a convincing argument to change anything if it's plentiful. You're not selling the need for the change at all.

    Again, I'm not doing this to "defend EME." I've already advocated for the toggle or removing the achievement! But if you can't convince me of your argument, it's not likely to convince them to change the compromise for now. And they're not going to argue about it; they're just going to ignore it and move on with their lives because it's "good enough" considering their goals. So make a convincing argument, finally.

    You've just exactly explained our point. removing the ccb from elite entirely is exactly identical in function to giving us 24 useless ones each day. i'm just going to use 12 hour ccbs on all my characters anyway. Then i'm going to break crystals because i forgot to push a button i shouldn't have had to push in the first place. Why a toggle or remove the achievement? it's a pointless achievement anyway, why not just award it to every elite player? it's not like it's difficult to get or anything special, if elite stops people from getting it, just make everyone who is elite get it for free? i get that you'll say "but people will 1 day elite!!!!!!@111!" but that's honestly a joke, if you think that is abuse you're living in a different universe. Decisions like this just make me more and more certain that nobody at eme actually plays their own game and that's why every choice they make is so disconnected from it. Even with the complete lack of understanding of tera they consistently demonstrate, people should be able to see why this is such an annoying change. Imagine you signed up for car insurance and then after a month they call you and say "we're going to need you to call us every 3 hours if you want to keep your car insurance, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to experience driving without car insurance." then they hang up on you.
  • Maybe they realized the folly of giving us the Perm CCB feature in the past month, that it runs contrary to the original intention of making crystals breakable, and they've decided to take it back and force players to play the game and manage ingame elements as it was intended, and no they're not gonna tell you the REAL reason for withdrawing this feature, but that its removal is a "100% direct result of player feedback".

    "You fools, why did you give them that feature!? They're never going to lose any crystals this way and that would defeat the original purpose of making crystals breakable. Here we are trying to make players lose their gold, and there you are giving them this permanent crystal preserving feature. Take it back at once, take it all back, you idiots!"

    "Ohh.. okay... yes right, on the double!"

  • edited December 2017
    Seriously? That's your reason, saving 50 gold per character once? When promo events that give 1-Day Elite also tend to give out gems worth thousands?
    wow! a one day promo elite to scam the system out of... a maximum of like 5k gold? assuming 18 characters per server? next you'll be telling me they're changing nostrums to 5 minutes
    Xristosx wrote: »
    I'm sorry what....did you read what you typed, Who in their right mind would be using elite just to get "free" 12 hour CCB's on all their alts.. what you can farm like one in a few minutes, I seriously doubt someone got one day elite for CCB's, you know what people would of got elite for? for a permanent ccb.

    I'm just explaining why they did that -- because they give you 24x every day so that every character on an account can get one. Giving 24x12 hours is 12 days worth, per server per day.

    I also said repeatedly that I want the toggle or for them to remove the achievements. But if you ask why did they do it... that's why. So give me a convincing argument why it should be 12, other than "I can already get 12-hour CCB in game for cheap anyway" -- which isn't really a convincing argument to change anything if it's plentiful. You're not selling the need for the change at all.

    Again, I'm not doing this to "defend EME." I've already advocated for the toggle or removing the achievement! But if you can't convince me of your argument, it's not likely to convince them to change the compromise for now. And they're not going to argue about it; they're just going to ignore it and move on with their lives because it's "good enough" considering their goals. So make a convincing argument, finally.

    You've just exactly explained our point. removing the ccb from elite entirely is exactly identical in function to giving us 24 useless ones each day. i'm just going to use 12 hour ccbs on all my characters anyway. Then i'm going to break crystals because i forgot to push a button i shouldn't have had to push in the first place. Why a toggle or remove the achievement? it's a pointless achievement anyway, why not just award it to every elite player? it's not like it's difficult to get or anything special, if elite stops people from getting it, just make everyone who is elite get it for free? i get that you'll say "but people will 1 day elite!!!!!!@111!" but that's honestly a joke, if you think that is abuse you're living in a different universe. Decisions like this just make me more and more certain that nobody at eme actually plays their own game and that's why every choice they make is so disconnected from it. Even with the complete lack of understanding of tera they consistently demonstrate, people should be able to see why this is such an annoying change. Imagine you signed up for car insurance and then after a month they call you and say "we're going to need you to call us every 3 hours if you want to keep your car insurance, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to experience driving without car insurance." then they hang up on you.

    It is an annoying change. Everyone knows that -- they know that, I know that, the world knows that. The permanent CCB is infinitely better, and everyone wants it to come back as a general rule. The issue is entirely about what to do for now given the problem they caused.

    Your solution is "give everyone the achievement." Okay, how? You write and run a DB script for all active Elite players? Elite status changes all the time and people create new characters, so maybe you run the script daily? Is it okay if someone just gets promo Elite and then they get these free achievements? If BHS creates other similar achievements you do the same? Is it worth getting using programming time for this when people could just click a button on a bar instead for now, or keep using CCB as they did before? Isn't it better if BHS just deletes the achievement anyway? Does that take something away from the game...? etc. etc.

    Anyway, I'm done putting a target on my back for this. I hope that, through all this thread, I've provided enough different angles to the problem that someone can come up with an argument that will be convincing to the powers that be (particularly so they can push BHS hard for a real fix). Even after hearing all the arguments here, I couldn't defend the position in a debate knowing the potential counterarguments. I think they would still believe the current compromise is good enough given the situation. Maybe someone else can make the winning case, beyond what we already know (pushing for BHS to change something to address the need for a compromise in the first place).

    c0g wrote: »
    Maybe they realized the folly of giving us the Perm CCB feature in the past month, that it runs contrary to the original intention of making crystals breakable, and they've decided to take it back and force players to play the game and manage ingame elements as it was intended, and no they're not gonna tell you the REAL reason for withdrawing this feature, but that its removal is a "100% direct result of player feedback".

    "You fools, why did you give them that feature!? They're never going to lose any crystals this way and that would defeat the original purpose of making crystals breakable. Here we are trying to make players lose their gold, and there you are giving them this permanent crystal preserving feature. Take it back at once, take it all back, you idiots!"

    "Ohh.. okay... yes right, on the double!"
    If that were the case, they'd have strangled the supply of CCB a really, really long time ago, rather than ensuring it was handed out like candy. Conspiracy theories also won't convince of the need to change the compromise.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    or that you're going to cancel Elite because of a benefit that didn't even exist for 5 1/2 years.

    I wonder what these dedicated achievement hunters were doing for those 5 1/2 years and how they managed to not get these 2 very important achievements. I guess it's just so difficult to die repeatedly that some need 6-7 years to get there.............................

    PS: Your 1day elite vouch = 12h free ccb argument...did you pull that out of Spacecat's behind? If you've actually been playing for 5+ years, even your behind can't produce such stupidity.
  • StitchedSoulStitchedSoul ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Also personally for me those speaks about laziness sound weird.
    So people who don't want to track ccb and press buttons are lazy and those who want to do achievements not? They also are! Because for diamond laurel you can find plenty other achievements Also you have to run loads of dungs which are way more time consuming together with other achievements aka knockdowns (for classes without knock skills they can be hard) and will take more than month.
    So they are lazy to do them and want fast way - cut road and do crystal ach.
    And for champion laurel you need to wait waaaay more than a month to kill 5 tuwangi chieftains for example in arena or complete 1500 quests or do a timed run on two bosses in lkhm /example/(in the start of the patch without equip and on dead server aha). So crystals achievement will not be a reason to stuck. also it is always possible to do cs or kumas achs to get those 20 points.
    so don't tell about laziness here. There are much more ppl who use elite perks (could use) than those who want diamond or champion. And who want they will reach their aim.


    P.s. And yes I have champion laurel myself.
  • It is an annoying change. Everyone knows that -- they know that, I know that, the world knows that. The permanent CCB is infinitely better, and everyone wants it to come back as a general rule. The issue is entirely about what to do for now given the problem they caused.

    Your solution is "give everyone the achievement." Okay, how? You write and run a DB script for all active Elite players? Elite status changes all the time and people create new characters, so maybe you run the script daily? Is it okay if someone just gets promo Elite and then they get these free achievements? If BHS creates other similar achievements you do the same? Is it worth getting using programming time for this when people could just click a button on a bar instead for now, or keep using CCB as they did before? Isn't it better if BHS just deletes the achievement anyway? Does that take something away from the game...? etc. etc.

    Anyway, I'm done putting a target on my back for this. I hope that, through all this thread, I've provided enough different angles to the problem that someone can come up with an argument that will be convincing to the powers that be (particularly so they can push BHS hard for a real fix). Even after hearing all the arguments here, I couldn't defend the position in a debate knowing the potential counterarguments. I think they would still believe the current compromise is good enough given the situation. Maybe someone else can make the winning case, beyond what we already know (pushing for BHS to change something to address the need for a compromise in the first place).
    The fact that enmasse is incompetent is not really a good excuse for them removing elite features, to be perfectly blunt. Aside from that, as far as I'm aware, character achievements don't need a db script to update - when i login old characters, i get a boatload of achievements that have been tweaked and etc. Just make it also give elite players (or even everyone for that matter, since it's a joke of an achievement to begin with) the achievement in question. Inconveniencing - I was going to say thousands of people, but i'm not really sure the playerbase is that big anymore, so i'll just say inconveniencing every elite player because a handful of people want 20 achievement points is not a reasonable solution to the problem. EME should not just wildly jump from one poor solution to the next, that's no way to run a business. I'm absolutely certain eme staff sees how little confidence the playerbase has in them, and things like this are exactly why. They released something which people are quite happy with, and then realized there was a small problem with it, so their solution is to completely remove it and in return give us garbage that we don't want. Literally, a 3-hour crystalbind would not even be worth storing in my bank at this point. It would not be worth pressing the button to pick it up off the floor, what makes enmasse think it's worth having on my elite status bar next to the even more useless gold boost?
  • CornishRex wrote: »
    Sooo can anyone give me a good reason as to why I should use the elite 3 hour ccb as opposed to regular 12 hour ones? What makes these better?
    they're better because they're 5 gold cheaper!!! it would take you .0083333333 RG's to recoup the cost of the 12 hour one!
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Dang, I was gonna sell my elite ccb for 5g but the clever boys at EME were one step ahead of my little get rich quick scheme
  • c0gc0g ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    So EME has been trying to help us save 5 gold everytime we use the 3 hr CCB...

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  • StitchedSoulStitchedSoul ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    > @c0g said:
    > So EME has been trying to help us save 5 gold everytime we use the 3 hr CCB...

    and earn piles by gold boost when gold actually doesn't dtop anymore like it did before :lol:
  • > @c0g said:
    > So EME has been trying to help us save 5 gold everytime we use the 3 hr CCB...

    and earn piles by gold boost when gold actually doesn't dtop anymore like it did before :lol:

    STAPH PLEASE! Goddam I'm so emotional now... :'(
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