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New Slayer Rotations

Talks about the Slayer changes started bit in this thread: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/205459#Comment_205459

Want to diverge a bit from the OP there and talk a bit about new Slayer rotations. I'm in the last semester of undergrad with a job, so I haven't had a lot of time to work with the new changes, so it'd be nice to hear what other Slayers are having success with.

So far I am having success with:

EV > MS > KDS (cancel) > OHS > WW > OHS (if reset) / EV > MS

The KDS cancel gives a bit of buffer because if you Fury then WW you hit MS with a bit of cooldown or, even worse, you hit EV while it's on cooldown. This takes advantage of the KDS chainlink glyphs but not the KDS damage. The rotation is so tight that if KDS goes on cooldown it won't be up the next time.

EV is kind of hit or miss on when to use. If you have buffs up and MS is off cooldown, then it's better to save it and MS out of OHS, but if you need EV buffs or MS is on cooldown then you'd want to EV into MS because it crits more often then not.

Sometimes the cooldowns get unsynched, but a single HT filler fixes that np. So MS is highest priority, then WW, then HT (?). OHS still functions as normal, but do we WW enough to make a chest line change? Glyphing Fury Strike for speed on WW seems essential now as it helps out a lot too.

The changes are kind of cool because you still have to think a bit about what to use next. However, they also kind of suck because you just do the same four skills over and over now. . .

PS: you need 3 mobs at least to WW/MS cycle perfectly: EV > MS > WW > OHS > MS > WW > EV > MS > WW > OHS > MS etc.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • fastrthnwindfastrthnwind ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    I try to OP > EV as much as possible because their CDs align very well and they both are instant cast skills. I now use HR mainly just before using WW to keep it sped up.

    Since the new passive directly affect CDs of our core skills, I have been wondering if using double energetics would still be useful for the CDR or if going pumped/keen would be more beneficial altogether or possibly a mix of any two.

    This is my current glyph build so far: http://www.essentialmana.com/glyph-calc/#sl65:b02:c2:g4:j13:n04:o0:p13:t13:u0146

    I have been using KDS anicancel more frequently now and it does create a pretty tight rotation. If OHS isn't up though it can makes things a bit harder, but in that case, I just use FS. Its sad that I almost never use HT anymore.
  • KaaiYuKaaiYu ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    . I now use HR mainly just before using WW to keep it sped up.

    I typically disagree with using HLR within main rotations because it's a mobility skill at the end of the day, and there are a lot of moments in which you'll need it up. For instance, second boss of RKHM. If you're using it all the time, you'll probably run into issues with the area shutting down. Along with this, casting WW as fast as possible isn't always the best thing to do. You want it fast, but fast enough to not run into the MS cd wall. I'd be interested in hearing how well it goes though.

    Since the new passive directly affect CDs of our core skills, I have been wondering if using double energetics would still be useful for the CDR or if going pumped/keen would be more beneficial altogether or possibly a mix of any two.

    The A-speed is way too good considering how fast our skills come off of cooldown now. In addition to this, the CDR still affects MS, which shaves a few seconds off of it. I don't think Energetics are going anywhere anytime soon.


    I have been using KDS anicancel more frequently now and it does create a pretty tight rotation. If OHS isn't up though it can makes things a bit harder, but in that case, I just use FS. Its sad that I almost never use HT anymore.

    So far, I think using KDS cancel is the best thing to do. It gets the most damage out your rotation. It changes a bit if you're doing a Slaying run, but I think KDS cancel is up there because you can keep the buffs up for every WW. Over the fight, that's a ton of damage.

    Whirlwind chest line might actually be very viable now. In normal play, we might be WWing enough to make it worth it. However, in parce runs I think OHS will still win out because if you don't get the UOHS bug, then you're not hitting high on the board, so dumping everything into UOHS will still be the best thing to do in that case. That's just speculation though.

    I've been using a very similar glyph page, except I use Backstab cooldown.

    EDIT:
    Here is a rudimentory, no consumables rotation to show what I mean.

    Commentary in the description.
  • fastrthnwindfastrthnwind ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    I typically disagree with using HLR within main rotations because it's a mobility skill at the end of the day, and there are a lot of moments in which you'll need it up. For instance, second boss of RKHM. If you're using it all the time, you'll probably run into issues with the area shutting down. Along with this, casting WW as fast as possible isn't always the best thing to do. You want it fast, but fast enough to not run into the MS cd wall. I'd be interested in hearing how well it goes though.


    That's understandable. I typically try to use LS>OHS before using HLR in most sticky situations, but using FS to speed boost WW works just as well.
    The A-speed is way too good considering how fast our skills come off of cooldown now. In addition to this, the CDR still affects MS, which shaves a few seconds off of it. I don't think Energetics are going anywhere anytime soon.

    I did some testing of my own (took a while with the nerf to VGs/IOD tokens), but in general the rotations were much smoother with the added CDR/AS from energetics. I hardly ever hit a CD wall with any of the main 4 skills. I fully agree that energetics are still the way to go.

    So far, I think using KDS cancel is the best thing to do. It gets the most damage out your rotation. It changes a bit if you're doing a Slaying run, but I think KDS cancel is up there because you can keep the buffs up for every WW. Over the fight, that's a ton of damage.

    Whirlwind chest line might actually be very viable now. In normal play, we might be WWing enough to make it worth it. However, in parce runs I think OHS will still win out because if you don't get the UOHS bug, then you're not hitting high on the board, so dumping everything into UOHS will still be the best thing to do in that case. That's just speculation though.

    I've been using a very similar glyph page, except I use Backstab cooldown.

    EDIT:
    Here is a rudimentory, no consumables rotation to show what I mean.

    Commentary in the description.

    It gets tricky when OHS is on CD but it does help WW a lot with the damage boost as well as OHS. In my non-parcel runs, MS usually leads in damage followed by EV and then WW or OHS in 3rd/4th place and UOHS in 5th. I cant seem to get the UOHS bug to work in most cases, but even still, I would value the OHS chest line over WW because the amount of times you can WW are capped around how many OHS you can pull off and both do similar in damage contribution over the course of a fight.

    On the video, you mentioned you did an OHS out of habit at 00:34. You definitely could have smoothed out the rotation if you had done OP>EV and EV had crit. If it hadn't, well then RNGsus would not have been in your favor. Regardless, that's why I try to OP>EV whenever their CDs line up. Also helps to break any OHS spam habits. :P
  • On the video, you mentioned you did an OHS out of habit at 00:34. You definitely could have smoothed out the rotation if you had done OP>EV and EV had crit. If it hadn't, well then RNGsus would not have been in your favor. Regardless, that's why I try to OP>EV whenever their CDs line up. Also helps to break any OHS spam habits. :P

    Yes, OP >EV is good for shaving off those few seconds of time. I just haven't been back to the game that long, so old habits die hard. ^^;

    Also keep in mind that that rotation is done with only a Nostrum. It's going to be very clunky. I'll make a new one when I can get hold of a Mystic friend to go in with me.

    I'm just now having a conversation with someone who brought up the comparison between Measured Slice and Scythe. They argue it's not the same thing, but really is there much of a difference now? Warriors used Scythe as much as possible because it does so much more damage than any other skill. If a fully buffed MS does more damage than HT or any other skill we have, then why not just get to MS asap?
  • KaaiYu wrote: »
    Yes, OP >EV is good for shaving off those few seconds of time. I just haven't been back to the game that long, so old habits die hard. ^^;

    Also keep in mind that that rotation is done with only a Nostrum. It's going to be very clunky. I'll make a new one when I can get hold of a Mystic friend to go in with me.

    I'm just now having a conversation with someone who brought up the comparison between Measured Slice and Scythe. They argue it's not the same thing, but really is there much of a difference now? Warriors used Scythe as much as possible because it does so much more damage than any other skill. If a fully buffed MS does more damage than HT or any other skill we have, then why not just get to MS asap?

    Yea the extra crit rate can make a difference when it comes to making sure both EV/WW crit and by extension lowering MS CD. However, running with a priest may also be a similar experience because now they have the 5% CDR on all skills buff on E-stars.

    I always thought MS was comparative to Scythe for the exact same reasons. However the damage contribution overall for warrior likely plays a part because compared to all other skills Scythe is 50+% of a warriors total damage while BD damage comes up around 20-25%, so missing scythes is not very good. Since their next most used skill BD does so little in comparison and other skills around 7-6%, it puts more emphasis on making sure Scythe is used off CD.

    Slayer's damage breakdown is a bit different because while MS was always top priority and it always did the most damage of all the skills, the other dps skills like HT/OHS/EV did contribute significantly more damage compared to warrior's dps skills, with MS totaling at least 25+% and the rest being around 20-ish%. This evens out their dps contribution over several skills instead of having it all loaded into 1 or 2 skills like warrior.

    Now with MS CD able to be reduced by critting on certain skills, MS priority is now more heavily emphasized and will lead to more contribution for that skill itself.
  • I always thought MS was comparative to Scythe for the exact same reasons. However the damage contribution overall for warrior likely plays a part because compared to all other skills Scythe is 50+% of a warriors total damage while BD damage comes up around 20-25%, so missing scythes is not very good. Since their next most used skill BD does so little in comparison and other skills around 7-6%, it puts more emphasis on making sure Scythe is used off CD.

    Slayer's damage breakdown is a bit different because while MS was always top priority and it always did the most damage of all the skills, the other dps skills like HT/OHS/EV did contribute significantly more damage compared to warrior's dps skills, with MS totaling at least 25+% and the rest being around 20-ish%. This evens out their dps contribution over several skills instead of having it all loaded into 1 or 2 skills like warrior.

    Now with MS CD able to be reduced by critting on certain skills, MS priority is now more heavily emphasized and will lead to more contribution for that skill itself.

    Yeah, I think the comparison with Scythe ends with it being the highest priority skill. Just something to think about.

    Looking at runs of dungeons now Heart Thrust constitutes a pitiful amount of overall DPS. MS climbs to around 25% - 30% in a lot of cases. Just gotta keep up the OHS use and use MS off cd. I'm looking forward to seeing how those numbers change in the future.
  • omg this new rotation is so hard to get used too!

    I'm liking OP > EV > MS > Fury > WW > EV > MS. It just feel feels smooth and perfectly timed - so weird to use Fury so much when at full health to abuse a glyph. If I notice a crit not happen, I'm trying to get into the habit to add a Dash > KDB. Dash is glyphed for KDB for me now.

    Thank you Kaai and Fast for pointing out these rotations and glyphs. Very helpful!
  • I'm trying to pick up slayer again but I feel so weak. I'm a +9 SC valk main and now going back to gearing my +6 FM slayer and I feel like I'm hitting with a balloon. I know the gear difference and all but unless I get a decent ICB modifier I feel still very weak. Slayer was my first class ever and I'd love to pick it up again and all but... I cringe what BHS meant when they said "we're looking into evening out the damage of ICB".
  • I'm trying to pick up slayer again but I feel so weak. I'm a +9 SC valk main and now going back to gearing my +6 FM slayer and I feel like I'm hitting with a balloon. I know the gear difference and all but unless I get a decent ICB modifier I feel still very weak. Slayer was my first class ever and I'd love to pick it up again and all but... I cringe what BHS meant when they said "we're looking into evening out the damage of ICB".

    Ultimately the gear difference is probably the biggest factor. The difference between FM and +9 SC is enormous. Aside from this, Slayer probably is the weaker of the two classes. It's kind of been a class you play for the sake of it.

    I am actually all for fixing ICB. I think randomly generating a damage roll is the dumbest idea imaginable. Not only does it completely go against the idea of parcing for leaderboards, it's just not fun. Rolling a dice to see if your damage is decent or complete [filtered] is just disappointing most of the time. Just make it like every other skill in the game and buff the class.
  • fastrthnwindfastrthnwind ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    So after playing around with the rotations and doing some rk9 runs, I have finally found a good NON-ICB rotation that is very consistent.

    Note: this was done with tier 3 energetic etchings. Tier 4 energetic etchings may slightly alter the rotation.

    It goes like this:

    OP>EV>MS>HLR>WW>KDS(ani-cancel)>OHS>(OP)EV>MS>WW>OHS>KDS(ani-cancel>(OHS/[OP]EV)>(OHS)>MS

    My personal rotation does involve using HLR as it can be used every other WW when glyphed for CD, however using FS glyphed for WW speed boost works just as well for those who like to save it for emergencies or re-engaging.

    At the start of the engagement EV should be OP’d, but every time afterward will depend on the CD of MS. If MS is about to come off cd then just chain to MS right away. If it still has 2 or more seconds then OP>EV to insure that EV crits so that MS can be chained immediately. If that doesn’t crit and OHS is on CD, then any other OHS chain skill can be used after to chain from OHS to MS immediately and continue the rotation, preferably HT or BS depending on the situation.

    EV>MS combo should be prioritized vs EV>OHS>MS and the latter combo should only be used in the situation where OP>EV doesn’t crit and can be used to extend the rotation to accommodate the CD of MS.

    In cases where KDS cannot be anicanceled with OHS/EV and is put on CD, then substituting the following rotation with HT will work just as well.


    I’m still working with ICB rotations, and it seems that the typical UOHS spam is simply supplemented by the additional WW’s from UOHS spamming and MS’s from the extra WW crits. It also works well to use ICB after the initial OP>EV>MS>HLR>WW combo so that WW is reset and can be used to lower MS CD again and start the ICB combo with WW>UOHS>MS. You simply miss out on the EV ani-canceling of ICB at the beginning of the combo.

    I have yet to figure out if saving ICB for after the initial opener works out better in terms of dps rather than using it before the opener as this questions whether or not resetting the CD of WW to use MS again immediately in ICB and sacrificing roughly a second in ICB outweighs using ICB at the start and simply using MS as much as posssible during the ICB buff.
  • Is this rotation working with dual CDR on weapon or single CDR?
  • This was used with double tier 3 energetics.
  • This was used with double tier 3 energetics.

    Yeah I saw that in his post. I was asking about the weapon top line. Was it dual CDR or 1 CDR and damage vs enraged?
  • Zadozex wrote: »
    This was used with double tier 3 energetics.

    Yeah I saw that in his post. I was asking about the weapon top line. Was it dual CDR or 1 CDR and damage vs enraged?

    Oh I see now. It was done with a single CDR line with enraged damage.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    I recommend people watching my video https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ca87FC8YjRw. Please read the description of the video and I also upload videos of myself doing the "hardest" dungeons in the game so people can have an idea of how Slayer performs at the highest levels.

    I also show optimal gear rolls and glyphs
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