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Force newbies to learn the basics instead of being a burden to others

So I've noticed this for quite a long time already and it seems there are still many ppl who instance match end-game dungeons with unacceptable / no crystals. It is wasting everyone's time when they do less dmg due to improper weapon crystals, or die due to improper armor crystals.

The game already has information given on the Welcome Message on what are the proper crystals to use in PVE, and the Lvl 60 story quest where you hunt Dakuryon down in Arx Umbra gives 2 boxes of relevant crystals when completed, but ppl are still entering dungeons with inappropriate ones.
Thus, I think that certain actions can be taken to at least teach newbies the basics before they even enter dungeons.
Firstly, I have noticed that the Welcome Message takes some time to load and can be closed before it even finishes loading, so why not make it such that newbies cannot close the message until they have read it? Also, the part of the message that states the kinds of crystals to be used in PVE or PVP should be highlighted so that players do not skim through the message and miss out on it. This is to ensure newbies know how to gear themselves appropriately and not be a burden to party members.

Secondly, the instance matching system could be tweaked such that you must have the appropriate crystals equipped to even be able to use it (for end-game at least), and only crystals of your level's tier and one tier lower are accepted (e.g. lvl 65s can enter with either appropriate Niveots or Cruxes, but not any other crystals below the Crux tier).
If the player chooses to fool around and remove crystals once he/she gets matched, set a 1 minute timer for which he/she has to place the crystals back, else he/she will be automatically kicked out of the dungeon once the timer ends.
This will then place the burden of properly gearing on individuals instead of their party members, which in the first place is unfair.
There's a reason why instance matching is in the game, but ppl are shunning. Why? Cos there's too many ppl who either have no knowledge of basics or have the "carry me" mindset and ruining the experience for anyone unlucky enough to be matched with them.
By implementing these changes, those ppl are forced to learn the basics. Even if the "carry me" mindset is still present, those players will be vote-kicked by others if it's apparent to the other players that they don't contribute.
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Comments

  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    and if they don't do what you said, someone from eme should go to their house and beat them with a garden hose....jk.
  • The minimum item level to enter into a dungeon is a good way to stop this. They just need to make it that crystals effect item level and make it more restrictive. I mean you can enter a dungeon that drops tier 10 mats but be geared with partial tier 8, make it that you have to be the tier equal or 1 below to the dungeon rewards.
  • News Flash, Experiance is largely the sum total of ones mistakes, no one is born knowing this stuff;But I do have an alternate solution for you that will take much less coding and game tweeking. There are lotsof good single player games on the market and in that enviroment all the player(s) will be just as good as you!! No stressing over Noobs at all. Bye!!
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still think my idea for a training server would help a lot.
  • yes it would : ) my friend
  • KaaiYuKaaiYu ✭✭
    There's a lot of necessary information left out. What crystals would acceptable? Full Pounding? What about Carving, Forceful, or Pounding? All three? What about a mix of Relentless and Hardy? Is my Poised Niveot allowed? Other roles might have variations too.

    I'm not saying any of the above is optimal, but a new player won't know that. You'd have to make so many combinations of crystals acceptable that you'd still get people with garbage crystals.

    What safety nets are going to be put in place for people who die and break crystals? What if that was my last Hardy Crux. I no longer have 4. I can't queue unless I have gold to buy another one? Sure, maybe a friend can give me one, but you can't set up a system that could potentially [filtered] someone over until they scrounge around to find a crystal. I'm not saying it'd happen often or that there aren't easy ways out of it, but if you're designing something like this, then these are just a few of the things you have to think about.

    I wouldn't want to be the person who has to code this. That's for sure.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    News Flash, Experiance is largely the sum total of ones mistakes, no one is born knowing this stuff;But I do have an alternate solution for you that will take much less coding and game tweeking. There are lotsof good single player games on the market and in that enviroment all the player(s) will be just as good as you!! No stressing over Noobs at all. Bye!!
    Not sure what exactly is your point here, but I have mentioned in my post that there's information out there in the game for newbies to follow. They choose not to read, then the game should punish that instead of punish everyone else who takes the time & effort to gain knowledge. That is my point if you missed it.
    KaaiYu wrote: »
    There's a lot of necessary information left out. What crystals would acceptable? Full Pounding? What about Carving, Forceful, or Pounding? All three? What about a mix of Relentless and Hardy? Is my Poised Niveot allowed? Other roles might have variations too.

    I'm not saying any of the above is optimal, but a new player won't know that. You'd have to make so many combinations of crystals acceptable that you'd still get people with garbage crystals.

    What safety nets are going to be put in place for people who die and break crystals? What if that was my last Hardy Crux. I no longer have 4. I can't queue unless I have gold to buy another one? Sure, maybe a friend can give me one, but you can't set up a system that could potentially [filtered] someone over until they scrounge around to find a crystal. I'm not saying it'd happen often or that there aren't easy ways out of it, but if you're designing something like this, then these are just a few of the things you have to think about.

    I wouldn't want to be the person who has to code this. That's for sure.
    Well I know it's not gonna be easy to code this, but there are always ways to do it.

    Example: Do not allow deviations from the "default" set of crystals that are necessary for them until they have cleared the dungeon X times.
    "Default" meaning for DPS, you will have to use Savage, Focused, Bitter/Spiteful, Pounding/Carving/Forceful.
    For TANK, you have to use Wrathful, Focused, 2x of either Pounding/Carving.
    For HEALER, you have to use Swift, and the last 3 being a mixture of Brilliant/Carving.
    For the crystals mentioned above, a boss monster variant can also be allowed
    For defensive crystals it will be 4x Hardy or Anarchic at least.
    Point here is to make sure the newbies know what basic crystals to use before they get to customise it. Simple.

    Now for the crystal breaing issue. The point of my post was to place the burden of gearing appropriately on the player himself, and not the party he gets matched up with. If he so happens to not use a CRYSTALBIND and dies and loses a crystal, he should find a way to get the crystal back himself, and not be allowed to re-enter dungeons and place a burden on the rest to CARRY him.
    I have checked fine crux prices on the Broker, and they aren't that expensive that he can't afford it with the vanguard gold rewards of clearing the dungeon where he broke his crystal.
    Any attempts to argue out of this is just an excuse to get carried through dungeons.
  • KertainKertain ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    What I saw here more was not force them to learn how to play, it was play with meta gear/cristals or don't allow to play at all.
    I don't see many ppl talking about teaching mechanics, this is seriously fun.

    As someone said noone is born with knowledge so you could simply be the bigger man and teach ppl instead of qq.
    One more thing when i started playing this the mentality was "I'll clear this even if everyone else dies because I'm a great Tera player", it's sad that the mentality changed to "either my dungeon runs are less than 5 mins or ill qq on forums about newbs".
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    You're assuming I've never tried to teach and therefore think I'm QQing here, but that's not the case. I've already tried and failed cos either people don't reply when you talk to them or they don't give a [filtered]. That is the reason for this post. Why punish us for when we've tried to do help, but people don't listen? Or if they don't wanna take the initiative to even read the Welcome Message? Is it my fault now no one wants to learn?

    Also I've explained the "no one is born with knowledge" part. The freaking Welcome Message & quest rewards give you an idea of what to gear already. So I'M the lesser man now when people choose to ignore it eh? Think about it.
  • Nobody reads those tips and stuff. Every day there are really simple basic questions on the forums, people asking how to enchant equipment, how to increase ilvl, etc. I mean this should all be basic stuff that can be easily learned or looked up... HOWEVER... this isn't just an instance of "failure to Google". 9 out of 10 people who start playing this game don't have a clue what they're doing, and they never get a clue because the game itself doesn't teach you ANYTHING. Sure, there are intro quests with long boring text that attempts to explain how stuff works, but almost nobody reads that. What they should have instead are simple STEP BY STEP quests that require players to actually perform the necessary actions, rather than just reading about it.

    I know, I know, that's just dumbing down the game and catering to the incompetent... but, look. I've been on this earth a great many years. And I've learned something about the people on this earth. They're not all geniuses. In fact, many of them are the opposite of geniuses. You literally have to hold their hands and guide them through even the most basic stuff. It's not enough just to throw a wall of text at them; I mean, right there, you're assuming that they know how to read. Seems like a reasonable assumption, right? Not necessarily. Even if they know how to read, they may not like to read, or it may be difficult for them. They might be "visual learners", or people who can only learn from actually DOING something. The best way to get people to learn exactly HOW to do X, Y and Z in game is to give them low level quests that force them to actually do those things before allowing them to move on.

    I know, I know, for those of us who already know and have already leveled half a dozen or so characters, it would be incredibly tedious, but really, would it be any more tedious than the quests we already have? Run here, talk to this guy, go gather that, deliver it to this guy, run back and talk to that guy... ugh. At the very least, we could turn these mundane quests into actual learning experiences for new players, rather than just "kill 15 of this" and "collect 5 of that". How about a quest that says "equip these crystals", or one that says "use your feedstock and alkahests to enchant this weapon" (I know there is already an enchanting quest in game, but it doesn't really fully describe the process - or maybe it does in the wall of text, but seriously, nobody reads that)... maybe a BAM training quest that teaches players how to backcrit by actually requiring them to back crit... a quest to train healers how to heal by allowing them to heal NPCs... a quest to train tanks how to tank by forcing them to, you know, tank... quests that explain item level, and enchanting, and masterworking, and crystals, and dungeon queues...

    And yeah, I know all of that information is in the welcome message, and I know lots of people have tried to coach new players, but there's only so much you can do when it comes to leading a horse to water. You need an actual quest that forces them to drink that water before they can progress any further. Yes, some people really are that dense. Maybe they're not all stupid, or selfish or lazy or anything like that... maybe they just don't speak English, or they're just honestly confused because they have no experience with computers or MMOs in general, or who knows... but yeah, generally you have to start with the assumption that most people are clueless, and the best way to teach them is by forcing them to have to do stuff themselves. Everything becomes easier the more times you do it, no matter how incompetent or unskilled you are. The problem with TERA is that the game assumes everyone is pro right out of the gates, so they accelerate the leveling process and skip all the actual boring learning stuffs... maybe it's because it's a Korean game and Koreans are gaming professionals straight out of the womb, LOL.. kidding but seriously, the only reason I have half a clue what I'm doing in this game is because I researched a lot of stuff, and most people can't be assed to take the time and effort to look that stuff up, because they expect the game to teach them everything they need to know (not an entirely unreasonable assumption I might add)
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    this same mentality is what caused cs and kumasylum to stop players from entering at level 30. people cried so much about lowbies, wrong crystals, and so on. now people complain about the gates being burned too fast. when they changed the level for kuma, I quit doing it. same with cs. not because I didn't know what to do, it was because of the elitists crying in the forums, and I knew that there would be people getting kicked for little things.there are too many people in the game that acts like tera is the only thing in life that matters and if you don't have this or if you're not perfect in skills, then you can't be accepted. tera's player base has lowered a lot in the past year, and the toxic doe not help things. when these entitled players treat the new people like crap, the newbies quit. eventually word gets out that tera is toxic and no new people will come. I have mentioned in this post and in a different post that a training server would be a big help. then after they feel like they have the mechanics down, then they join a regular server, then maybe they can join in the reindeer games with the full time pros.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    I do agree with the part about not everyone is a genius, that is why I'm here requesting for something to be done about that.
    The methods that I proposed are just examples of what can be done, not what I deem must be done; there's a difference between the two. If having mandatory story quests that explain to newbies what is required can solve the problem, then I'm fine with it.

    However, I cannot agree to being labeled as an elitist just for requesting for a change. What I'm proposing here is to set up a baseline where newbies enter dungeons with the bare minimum/basics and not be a deadweight, so if that is considered elitist, then idk how the quality of players are going to increase with more & more of these "i require hand-holding" players joining the game. I'm not even asking for them to know their class fully or having to know every single boss mechanic. What I'm asking for is the minimum appropriate gear for them to be able to learn the dungeon while doing adequate damage & being able to withstand hits, instead of getting possibly 1 shot by attacks that shouldn't, due to them using inappropriate crystals.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    To further illustrate my point, just look at it from a different point of view.
    If everyone were to be like said newbie and come into the dungeon with trash crystals, would it benefit anyone?
    Would anyone be able to learn anything about the dungeon if they kept on dying to attacks that shouldn't kill them if they were in proper crystals, or failing on a shield mechanic just because they were using wrong crystals that didn't generate enough dps?
    Would they be able to even clear the dungeon then?
    The answers to all the above is probably gonna be no, and then the new players will also lose hope and quit the game, same as what would happen if they encounter elitists, which I'm not trying to be here.
  • KertainKertain ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Haloist wrote: »
    To further illustrate my point, just look at it from a different point of view.
    If everyone were to be like said newbie and come into the dungeon with trash crystals, would it benefit anyone?
    Would anyone be able to learn anything about the dungeon if they kept on dying to attacks that shouldn't kill them if they were in proper crystals


    And this is the proof of what i was saying, when i started playing green crystals didnt even exist, and you were taught right at the start by other player of the simple fact that: "if you are getting hit, you aren't playing this game properly", so saying a crystal should protect you from dieing is the wrong way to play this game and relying on gear instead of skill; shield mechanics precede another mechanic that as far as i remember is avoidable, there are always ways of surviving if you mess up and even those methods are told in guides.

    If noone answers you either the other pt is all on skype and you can either try to follow along being that 3 of them may be teaching a new player or 1 of them is teaching 3 new players, or leave; if it's just one not answering and refusing to learn im pretty sure the other members of your party will agree with a kick vote, so once again from my point of view you are just qqing
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