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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

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Comments

  • P5RLRJYGGE wrote: »

    "So, Would you like to start again from scratch?"

    I see what you did there. ;)
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    > @ElinUsagi said:
    > emphysema wrote: »
    >
    >
    > yeh. I was about to reply lol, when I saw a message that i cant reply anymore due to thread not existing anymore. luckily still got it
    >
    >
    > "Let me clarify this a bit:
    >
    > We, the third-party developers keep reminding people to turn off SP in PvP situations because we're aware of the fact that it's not perfect and can lead to desyncs and other behavior that could give you an unfair advantage. SaltyMonkey, the main developer of SP for my proxy, has spent countless hours every day working on improving SP, adding support for stuns/fears/etc to reduce the impact it has even if someone decides to abuse it in PvP.
    >
    > Caali and other unnamed developers"
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > There you have it, they admit they brought a broken tool to the game that can be abused and they want us to believe him that his words "pls proxy users dont make exploits from our mods" are true. They are not and they admit that they havent fixed the issues it brought.
    >
    > So I will quote the same shet people defending proxy spam "first fix your shet before spreading a broken tool into the game".

    There would be no need for the proxy if EME/BHS had fixed the game like the community has asked since day 1.

    Yeah, proxy could be used in PvP to gain somewhat of an unfair advantage, but it was meant for PvE. It was meant for people with high ping so that they could enjoy the game and not have minute long skill delays.

    And guess what? Yes, the people that use it for PvP are the real exploiters and they will continue to exploit the game. The DMCA to Caali is only making it so the people that needed the proxy so they could play with a high ping can no longer play, while the ones that make the exploits will continue to make them and you will see with time that the exploits will not go away, but half of the TERA population will, so I guess, enjoy your not so safe dead game.
  • MewtubeMewtube ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Huh? I don't understand EME's mentality that suddenly opened a can of worms without any idea how to tackle it. I personally don't side with either TOS or 3rd party tools, but the business practice by EME is so poor to a point that I am just....amazed.

    Yes, using 3rd party tools is against TOS, and EME has every rights to punish those who distribute or use these tools regardless if players' intension is good or bad. But from business practice point of view, you don't make decisions that will drive your customers away on a huge scale. The purpose of the TOS is to protect the integrity of the game so that the developer and publisher can profit from it in the long run. In this case, do you think enforcing TOS and file DMCA claims on 3rd party tools will result a net gain or loss on gross revenue for EME? If you don't already have a solution to mitigate the impact on player base, why deal with the issue now? At current state, there are no game breaking exploits like the memeslash that create imminent threats to the game. Why not deal with cheaters who actually use 3rd party programs to gain unfair advantages case by case, and focus your resource and energy on actually promoting the game? Whether or not the 3rd program matter should be enforced, EME has handled the issue in the worst possible way that I really doubt the damage done can ever be restored.
  • More posts being deleted and you still wouldn't reply to us here.

    EME do you still wonder why people don't like you?
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    You’re gonna have to silence 80% of your community if you think this is right EME.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vabe wrote: »
    This whole proxy discussion/drama just shows how uninformed or ignorant a lot of people are. Let me emphasize this: We're *not* the black hat people exploiting the game. Neither do we have the intention to be. Those people who misquoted obvious jokes I made about using exploits to harm NA as threats from my side are just trying to spin things around so that they match their perspective.


    "Let me clarify this a bit:

    We, the third-party developers keep reminding people to turn off SP in PvP situations because we're aware of the fact that it's not perfect and can lead to desyncs and other behavior that could give you an unfair advantage. SaltyMonkey, the main developer of SP for my proxy, has spent countless hours every day working on improving SP, adding support for stuns/fears/etc to reduce the impact it has even if someone decides to abuse it in PvP.

    Caali and other unnamed developers"

    There you have it, they admit they brought a broken tool to the game that can be abused and they want us to believe him that his words "pls proxy users dont make exploits from our mods" are true. They are not and they admit that they havent fixed the issues it brought.

    So I will quote the same shet people defending proxy spam "first fix your shet before spreading a broken tool into the game".
  • HuvHuv ✭✭✭
    You should tell BHS to fix their game before releasing it.
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    @Huv
    You should tell people like U.F.C to stop injecting and cheating, because of people like him those who use proxy like me will have to leave for EU or stop playing.
  • HuvHuv ✭✭✭
    You realize all the people going to EU use proxy right? You'll just see him there again anyways.
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    > @Huv said:
    > You realize all the people going to EU use proxy right? You'll just see him there again anyways.

    I use proxy too, and I have no problem with it. It’s people like him, who cheat that are the problem and instead of blacklisting him from everything you continue to tolerate it.
  • BlueKoR wrote: »
    Alright people calling me delusional? You are the delusional ones. You think, that these those who have been exploiting the game and coming in and messing with files. Are here to help you and the other thousands of other Tera players. Play the game because they are nice people? People who just want to help the community against the big Bad enmasse because Enmasse won't fix anything. when in reality here is the situation. The people are invading the game, messing with the game files and giving out proxy all of them are here for their own gain. they are not here to help you play the game better, they are not here to improve Tera for the people! they are not vigilante's and outlaws on the outside of the law helping to help take the fight to Enmasse and force them to improve their game. they are rule breakers. they are cheaters they are people who in one way or another are benefiting themselves while providing a service to exploit the game.

    they are not doing this for the benefit for the Tera community although that maybe something that is happening as the result of their exploiting! they are here for themselves that's it. They are learning how to exploit the video game which will have coding and programming similar to other mmorpgs where once this game dies. they will make their way over to those games and hack and exploit them if they can because it is there hobby, they wanna learn and get better at programming and how to mess with the game files and they do this for fun, some for money, some because they hate the company, and some because they think they're doing good when in actuality they are just parasites. taking the work and programming of others and rewriting it for their own wants and desires.

    you people blame enmasse for when Bern or whatever the [filtered] his name was went to them and said "hey you guys there's a guy here whose gonna exploit your work in this manner this way etc let me help." and then you treat him like he was innocent! " he was just trying to help the game man!" but here is a great question. Why would I let someone who broke my terms of services, my rules that I put down in a term of agreement and they agreed to not break but then go completely out of their way to exploit the game and hack it while also selling proxies on the side for money.

    Why in hell would I let a third party programmer. Have access to the game when they've already been exploiting. Another scenario why the hell would I [filtered] listen to them? You don't know their true intentions. in that scenario Bern was trying to get back his work that he helped some other people make and when they took it from him he only decided to go get help because his effort went to waste. Is that really the kind of person. You wanna trust when they were already selling proxies to people for money in your game breaking the rules established?

    Many of you only see the good things they've done " they gave us proxy to allows us to have lower pings hurrah praise them for being good!" When you, who are now exploiting the game to play it. are no better than those who abuse injector to cheat the game. Let me be honest. I don't give a [filtered] if Proxy is a necessary for you so you can play the game. So you can get your fix on your tera addictions. you are now breaking the terms of agreement and thus you need to held accountable. what kind of message would it send if Enmasse just said "well we have all these people breaking our game and rules lets just stay passive and see what happens!" as a company you do that and that opens the way for more 3rd party programmers to start making their way here. For example the bots we see now today. In 2014-2016 there were no bots that were a issue that would spam the game chat.we had a few times the forums would get flooded by something but the problem got taken care of quickly and without issue. but In 2017 and 2018 when proxy and people who used proxy started become more rampant and appearing in the game after enmasse started letting things like memeslash exist, or letting people put proxy in the game without a true 100% method to deal with it. we then now have opened the gateway for more exploiters, and more things to come through and very much ruin the game experience for people. because Now Enmasse is seen as weak, easily accessibly and a perfect place to go in and exploit or mess with making it a hackers paradise!

    we now have bots in the game, we now have more people exploiting and breaking it that makes up more than half of this community. almost everyone today uses proxy because it is better for them personally to use it. meanwhile there are players who are playing the game fairly now having to deal with the [filtered] of seeing everyone around them cheating the game. You the tera players. keep asking enmasse to fix the issue but the issue here is they are not able to tackle this problem efficiently. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW! what kind of money enmasse is pulling in. how many players are left actually playing the game, we don't know what their costs are for running the company, how much it costs to rent the severs out in Chicago,Europe,and Korea, How much it costs them to pay their employee's and how much it takes to program and design new things. we simply do not know anything about the company because it is private and its privately invested.

    The reason half the bosses and mobs we see in Tera are rehashed as content. Is because it is a lot cheaper to keep rehashing a boss or dungeon or design then making or designing something completely new to play. You people complaining for better connections and things? YOU GET TO PLAY FOR FREE. You're not paying them money monthly to have a good connection and even if you are paying to support the game through elite or through EMP you are doing this on your own whim. It is not Enmassess job to make it so you have the best lowest pings and best fps you can get. it is their job to provide the service and access to their video game. which they already do. the issue of "my ping is bad." is simply on you and your area of living. if you wanna continue to pay them 15$ a month for elite perks thats all you get your elite perks they don' need to go lets build servers in South America or wherever else to compensate for you. It would definitely be beneficial to them do that making people more willing to spend money ona game they enjoy. but plenty of other people connect fine to the game and as unfair as that is you're SoL. Enmasse is not Blizzard North, or any other large mmorpg company. i sincerely doubt Tera has raked in as much money compared to many of these other mmorpgs. in fact there was a huge lay off along time for enmasse entertainment where they fired a bunch of their employees. So how is the company actually doing right now no one has a [filtered] clue. only enmasse knows how they are doing.

    There's a lot to unpack here. You make a couple of errors in your assumptions which leads to errors in your conclusions, they are:
    1 ToS is an agreement that makes good on the game (laws aren't always good, weed being illegal while tobacco and alcohol are legal, as that the latter kills more people, as a simple example).
    2 ToS can't be changed (KR has done it before...)
    3 All exploits are all equally bad because they break the ToS (and that's the foundation for what is good in your assumptions).
    4 There can't be real interaction between 3rd party devs and the company as all 3rd party programs are considering against ToS (hence you deem them hacks/cheats/exploits/etc.).
    5 The proxy devs benefit in nefarious ways, and since all exploits come from all the same entity (proxy devs) then they (proxy devs) are all bad.
    6 It's a free game, so no one has the right to complain about it, if you have a problem then leave.

    These 6 base assumptions you make are all flawed in different ways, mainly because you don't understand the situation to a further extent, you don't seem to differentiate between proxy devs, proxy mods, how they work, how proxy works, how the proxy community acts, how exploits work, who makes exploits... if you took the time to understand how it functions you'd realize the gap between players that use proxy and hackers/exploiters.
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