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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

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Comments

  • LuniackLuniack Velika Outskirts ✭✭✭
    iJ6Lqih.png
    Like i said and my comment got deleted
    http://tera.enmasse.com/legal/terms-of-service ToS can be changed any time.
  • I've been watching all of this very closely and I just wanted to share my 2 cents on the situation.

    At the end of the day allowing a 3rd party program like proxy to run rampant in your game is absolutely out of the question. I don't think that the majority of people here realize just how exploitable the game became through the tera proxy platform. Someone with just a little bit of knowledge could exploit things way beyond "better ping" with some careful file edits. This kind of exploitability in any game can only be detrimental to the overall health of a game. 90% of proxy users may only use the proxy for a simulated low ping, but they all have the ability to do more at their fingertips which is unacceptable. The other 10% that take it further are reaping the benefits of advantages that are almost impossible to calculate. The only criticism I have towards EmEs decision to dmca is that if they had a "fix" prepared for the whole situation ahead of time this all would've felt much much better.

    That being said we are in the situation that we are in and we can only look forward from here as a community. EmE has said they are working to bring some of the benefits from proxy(?) To the NA region in a controlled manner. I'm personally very excited to see that. I'm hoping that means we will get some better routing for the server which would bring a decrease in ping across the board. I have no idea what's coming but I do know that I run 70-100 ping in tera when I run 40~ in any other game I play. Even as a zerk main that brings real complications in rotation. Especially during unleash. If we got a solution to the universal high ping associated with tera the game would be in a much healthier state compared to the age of proxy.

    EmE is practically begging for our patience right now. I'm willing to give it to them. I think that a lot of people in this thread could really gain a lot of perspective if they just take a step back and see what EmE does for us before jumping ship. The game will probably never feel the same but as time goes on we will eventually be in a new tera reality where proxyless ping is the norm and we will realize that at the end of the day it doesn't actually matter.

    The real victims of this whole situation are the overseas players. I personally have had to say goodbye to some very close friends and I know that it is the same for many others. That is a true loss to the community and is hard to accept. I don't see a way to enable those players to enjoy the game at a functional level. Maybe someone more educated could figure it out but I'm not going to get my hopes up.
  • DvsvDvsv ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    "Babit wrote: »

    The real victims of this whole situation are the overseas players. I personally have had to say goodbye to some very close friends and I know that it is the same for many others. That is a true loss to the community and is hard to accept. I don't see a way to enable those players to enjoy the game at a functional level. Maybe someone more educated could figure it out but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

    We already said here how to solve the "skill ping reliance" problem for every player: BHS should make a built-in skill predictor for NA Tera.
    Better routing will solve nothing for overseas player, cuz 180 ms to 160 ms is still high ping, or even 100 ms to 80 ms for some ppl on NA, cuz this game was built for 20 ms korean ping.

    Heck, some underground "hackers" did this with javascript on their free time, why the developer of the game with access to the source code can't do a WAY better job?
    Oh, it gonna be broken on PVP? BHS can just disable it on every BG and make a PVE only feature.
    Problem solved, everyone will be happy, both overseas players and ppl on NA.
  • DigivolveDigivolve ✭✭✭✭
    Babit wrote: »
    That being said we are in the situation that we are in and we can only look forward from here as a community. EmE has said they are working to bring some of the benefits from proxy(?) To the NA region in a controlled manner. I'm personally very excited to see that.

    I am very not excited to see that. First make a legal action against proxy devs, then make it your own? That's considered a douche move in bird culture.... or any culture. Also, what makes you think "official" proxy won't be exploitable?
  • AryixAryix ✭✭✭
    Future of TERA?

    There is a 2 year delay in the actions that were taken on EME side. Regardless, the game community should care more for the game that it is playing instead of letting more-than-just-QoL scripts run amok. Sadly, the playerbase lost interest in protecting the integrity of the game when everyone realized that most player opinions weren't being taken into consideration, most EME staff isn't in touch with the actual in-game community (forum vs ingame is different, plus loading screen competitionsdoes not equal to keeping in touch with the community).

    I'm not a game developer, project manager, producer, cm, or any of the sorts, but I have been a player since December '14 and it is pretty sad that TERA has deteriorated: a community that does not care at all to keep the gaming conditions legit for everyone and accepts egocentric "for the people" devs as their saviors, and a publisher that keeps a player council as puppet and ignores most -if not all- the feedback given.

    Be aware, I'm not justifying player's actions. One thing is to level the playing field between low ping players and high ping players (tho, lets be honest, if you play ANY game from a region that is not yours, you will ALWAYS have to deal with ping issues, don't treat this as if it were a TERA-exclusive problem, it's extremely entitled to expect sub-100 ms from other regions), and another thing is to gain actual advantages over other players ("it's available for everyone" is not a valid reason, because everyone knows that there are "QoL" scripts which benefit the player that uses them and, therefore, gives an advantage over the other player that does not use them, and let's not forget a certain dev that *made irl bank selling scripts*, plus any other module or design sold for real money by any person).

    I'm also not justifying EME's lack of real attention to the playerbase either. It sucks to feel like numbers only and not like a community.

    I still enjoy Tera, I'll still play. I've never had any need to use scripts, modules, proxy, sp, etc. with my 120~190ms. I accept the conditions I have because I'll have the exact same conditions on every other game I play so no reason to find loopholes or cheats :) have a nice day.
  • LordXenonLordXenon ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    So I've been playing tera on and off for the past 6 years. I started around open beta and pre-ordered the game. The first two years of the game had great service and a loving, wonderful staff that everybody liked, even if they weren't always present, as well as fun and wonderful content. Fast forward two years past f2p, and the game has slowly become a hugely incompetent mess. Server performance has dropped, ping spikes are regular even for players one or two states away from the data center. I was regularly playing at 35-40 ms a couple years ago, and now I average 60-70 at regular and spike upwards to 100 ms. I have the exact same ISP with a better package, so no change there. That's inexcusable.

    I can understand not wanting hackers to run rampant and making an effort to stop them, but stopping proxy has achieved nothing. The underground communities will continue to work around this, while the casual and commonfolk who benefited from a free and public proxy, being used only to avoid Pingtag and fps drops, will now suffer. The fact that BHS has really done nothing to combat the issues that were resolved by proxy despite wanting rid of it for the past... two? years speaks volumes about how poorly managed this situation is.

    They could have talked to the devs and asked them to take a more active approach in blocking any exploits through their scripts, while asking the proxy devs to help them develop their own solution and then amicably end proxy support once the solution was implemented. At worst, the devs would have said no and been an issue. At best, this could have been an amazing opportunity to earn the respect of your community and get the help they needed in fixing game performance and improving tera overall. But no, they threw the glove at all third party developers and yanked their github rights out from under them. It's a huge lack of trust in their own community. They'd rather label them as cheaters and outlaws, instead of acknowledging what they've accomplished and bringing them in to help with the situation.

    Honestly, what the hell has happened to EME? Is it Korean corporate suits taking over? Did the people that cared about Tera just all leave? I mean, Tonka complained about the lack of transparency after leaving, but to think it's gotten this bad is frightening. Reading up on all the drama that happened while I was inactive, and all the mismanagement and drama I'm now seeing is really making me have 0 trust in this company and regret coming back the last couple months.
  • They deleted 12 pages now and our comments on how they deleted it....

  • every time i look at this post it's another page shorter, i'm crying with laughter over how unprofessionally eme handles every single thing thrown their way
  • HuvHuv ✭✭✭
    People who are okay with their ping saying how they dont need proxy are casual players that dont represent endgame tera. I too can play at my natural 70~ ping but I will never again be as competitive as I was once and that's what made tera fun for me.
  • I ask that you (EME) guys play the game, I read from somewhere that a GM answered this and said that he/she/preferred pronoun played it but did not post any images. But none of this matter, show us you're playing the game, I'm from SEA and have to learn how to play my toons like potatoes cuz of the high ping but I don't care about that, just show us someone from (EME) is playing the game and when I say you play the game, build it up from 1-65 until you gear it to HO and cleared majority of DG/BG, from what I"ve heard a CM before really played the game and TERA was great during his time. And after someone from EME played the game and still thinks that things should continue as it is then, I submit.
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    These are old issues the game has had, but I guess they became more notorious as the game's top content started to rely on ping more and more. I mean, I for one agree the game can be played without using the skill prediction thing from the proxy, but the dissappointment and anger comes from the fact that these problems are so old the community thought they would remain unsolved, and when something helps aleviate them, the publisher acted like this, banning the tool without even having an idea of what to do to solve the problems themselves.

    Meanwhile: https://www.mmobomb.com/news/en-masse-feuding-tera-third-party-developers-issuing-dmca-takedowns-communities/

    "Several players are wondering why a few independent programmers can implement fixes that En Masse and Bluehole can’t. While the official statement says that “We will investigate solutions that provide some of the benefits that these 3rd Party Services offered,” it seems that few players are likely to believe them, not after years of waiting for a publisher and developer that seem incapable or unwilling to implement the requested changes".

    Let's see how much more noisy this gets.
  • Cezzare wrote: »
    These are old issues the game has had, but I guess they became more notorious as the game's top content started to rely on ping more and more. I mean, I for one agree the game can be played without using the skill prediction thing from the proxy, but the dissappointment and anger comes from the fact that these problems are so old the community thought they would remain unsolved, and when something that helps aleviate them, the publisher acted like this, banning the tool without even having an idea of what to do to solve the problems themselves.

    Meanwhile: https://www.mmobomb.com/news/en-masse-feuding-tera-third-party-developers-issuing-dmca-takedowns-communities/

    "Several players are wondering why a few independent programmers can implement fixes that En Masse and Bluehole can’t. While the official statement says that “We will investigate solutions that provide some of the benefits that these 3rd Party Services offered,” it seems that few players are likely to believe them, not after years of waiting for a publisher and developer that seem incapable or unwilling to implement the requested changes".

    Let's see how much more noisy this gets.

    I honestly hope more sites pick up on this story. At this point I hope EVERYONE gets to see how horrible of a company EME is.
  • This was 53 pages. GG mEME.
  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stop deleting comments.
    EME is based on US.
    Not a communist country.
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    TJukuren wrote: »
    Cezzare wrote: »
    These are old issues the game has had, but I guess they became more notorious as the game's top content started to rely on ping more and more. I mean, I for one agree the game can be played without using the skill prediction thing from the proxy, but the dissappointment and anger comes from the fact that these problems are so old the community thought they would remain unsolved, and when something that helps aleviate them, the publisher acted like this, banning the tool without even having an idea of what to do to solve the problems themselves.

    Meanwhile: https://www.mmobomb.com/news/en-masse-feuding-tera-third-party-developers-issuing-dmca-takedowns-communities/

    "Several players are wondering why a few independent programmers can implement fixes that En Masse and Bluehole can’t. While the official statement says that “We will investigate solutions that provide some of the benefits that these 3rd Party Services offered,” it seems that few players are likely to believe them, not after years of waiting for a publisher and developer that seem incapable or unwilling to implement the requested changes".

    Let's see how much more noisy this gets.

    I honestly hope more sites pick up on this story. At this point I hope EVERYONE gets to see how horrible of a company EME is.

    The more they take to work on the issues, the further it will reach. Somehow I feel bad for them because probably it's a matter of bureaucracy, but their next update will be on the 7th, plenty of time for players to compile the thread and replies deletion, the notable differences between gameplay for high and low ping, with and without proxy, the unaddressed problem with golden and silver talents, the lack of interaction between the Community team and the players, the apparent lack of interest of the said team to learn and understand the game at least in a basic level (I remember Spacecats knew very little about the game when he started doing streams, but at leas he tried, he genuinelly made an effort to learn a bit; let's not talk about Tonka and Minea, who were capable of clearing content by themselves), etc. There's plenty of time to make tons of videos and spread the word about this all, I really hope they're aware of this.
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