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The only solutions

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  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated? Because that implies even the people with relatively low or stable ping shouldn't be able to do anything either, and I think I can safely say that I qualified as such a player (you know, when TERA wasn't being a c**t for no reason).

    @Khernz
    You obviously haven't been on the forums for very long. @ElinLove and ElinUsagi are frequently found in the same threads attempting to refute each other's points. And before you or anyone else tries to argue that they could still be the same person, think about how pathetic that is to go through all that work just to make themselves look good.

    This game is not worth it, and I'm sure even you know that.
  • RDMichieRDMichie ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Starkhoe wrote: »
    RDMichie wrote: »
    All i can do right now is wait and see that EME will do

    That is the only part which matters. Whatever reasons exist to contradict the possibility for my ideas to happen, will not change the turn of events which will happen if they don't get implemented. Besides. This is beyond the point of bringing up arguments or examples. Its a do or don't kinda thing. You claim to be a game developer. I wonder about that but sure that's great. Well then I hope you will be smarter then EME someday :lol:

    In the old times i was community manager too, most of the active players out of the game was from outside USA, keep in touch with them was a very important part of keeping the player base stable. Is kinda 'hard' to be transparent and keep the players happy, but is there a lot of honest ways to manage it, and even is interesting to involve the players in official discussions, to let them to discuss about future updates and improvements. Of coure the staff always have the last word, but just hearing and trying to implement in some way what the players want... they notice that fact, keeping them happy, actives and very very responsives.
  • Lapomko wrote: »
    RDMichie wrote: »
    The 'proxy' is developed under Node JS (an interpreted language), plus it runs in the client (using 'like a local host'), so it allows every capable player to modify the proxy behaviour. In order to let it work you should program it in a different programming language (a compiled one) and pack it.

    But the true is that the core feature of the proxy is very very simple, it just skip the server validation for skill prediction / execution, replacing this validation for a local (and instant) check. The lack of server validation also improves the PING because those packets does not travel, so the data exchange is less. So if BH develop a secure clientsided skill predictor / validator the problem will be solved (in fact the client already have something like that in some way). There is a lot of other crazy client/server checks to fix, but this one is the MOST important.

    I don't like the fact that EME decides to remove the proxy, but the true is that some people uses it for cheating, so sadly EME have his point. I'm not crying of course, but i cannot play without proxy because my PING is 190/240 ms (is playable?: yes, is enjoyable?: not).

    All i can do right now is wait and see that EME will do, i like to play Tera and i don't want to quit.

    And not, i'm not a cheater, i'm a game developer.

    Keep it in mind: Cheaters are developers (but not me :p), so they does not need a third party software for cheating, they develop their own. In terms of fair play it maybe cut the wings of some leechers, but does not fix anything.

    Do you even know how to program bro? They literally have access to the source code and don't even need to rewrite node.js just to implement what proxy does. They just have to modify the server/client source code to add skill queues so theres no ping tax in between 2 skills.

    Yup, it's my point. Is not possible to just 'take the current proxy and put it into the game', it needs to be redeveloped. But the major part of the code should be there in some way, because the client handles it.
  • teralover123teralover123 ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Body is 10 characters too short.
  • teralover123teralover123 ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Body is 10 characters too short.
  • Personally, I don't like proxy. I think it offers anyone using it an unfair advantage even over people with naturally low ping, because it lets you cancel many animations earlier and avoid a lot of the... quirks... vanilla tera has. I also think the way eme handled this was the worst possible way. If they had done it right away when proxy started getting popular, sure, it would have worked. but 3 years after the fact is a bit late. The majority of people I know and joined lfgs/ran dungeons with since the merge dropped out of tera entirely over this issue. It's a 2-3 hour struggle to find a party for end game now, even being a good lancer in a party with a good healer.

    Basically, EME ripped people's crutches out from under them while saying "you lay on the floor for a bit, i'll try to find a bandaid."
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    @SageWindu
    Fam most people need proxy to clear hard content. Ofcourse there's exceptions to the rule. Hell only one group in NA can clear ds and thats my group, that goes to show how weak our region is.

    Everyone in my group can run without sp no problem and still clear. (some already do). But it is not about us, it is about everyone who plays. Just look around, the game is a ghost town.

    if you're a high ping player without skill prediction, you can never clear ds unless you're hard carried or a healer.

    Its not even about being able to meet the bare minimum of clearing. People want to be competitive. I like the competition. I don't want our players being gimped because bad game design, why should you?

    If you don't want to use skill prediction then don't, but don't expect others who have high ping to follow in your footsteps. People like to compete and sp gives them that ability to compete.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    > @KillerPenguins said:
    > Personally, I don't like proxy. I think it offers anyone using it an unfair advantage even over people with naturally low ping, because it lets you cancel many animations earlier and avoid a lot of the... quirks... vanilla tera has. I also think the way eme handled this was the worst possible way. If they had done it right away when proxy started getting popular, sure, it would have worked. but 3 years after the fact is a bit late. The majority of people I know and joined lfgs/ran dungeons with since the merge dropped out of tera entirely over this issue. It's a 2-3 hour struggle to find a party for end game now, even being a good lancer in a party with a good healer.
    >
    > Basically, EME ripped people's crutches out from under them while saying "you lay on the floor for a bit, i'll try to find a bandaid."

    People who live closer to the servers than others have an unfair advantage so.... How is skill prediction any worse? Considering anyone can go and get it but not anyone can up and move closer to the servers?
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    I have the ping to play with no proxy or sp but the problem is most of my friends (and tera players on NA in general) have high ping and will not be playing due to no sp. Which means I also have no choice but to barely play because no one is around.
  • Saabi wrote: »
    > @KillerPenguins said:
    > Personally, I don't like proxy. I think it offers anyone using it an unfair advantage even over people with naturally low ping, because it lets you cancel many animations earlier and avoid a lot of the... quirks... vanilla tera has. I also think the way eme handled this was the worst possible way. If they had done it right away when proxy started getting popular, sure, it would have worked. but 3 years after the fact is a bit late. The majority of people I know and joined lfgs/ran dungeons with since the merge dropped out of tera entirely over this issue. It's a 2-3 hour struggle to find a party for end game now, even being a good lancer in a party with a good healer.
    >
    > Basically, EME ripped people's crutches out from under them while saying "you lay on the floor for a bit, i'll try to find a bandaid."

    People who live closer to the servers than others have an unfair advantage so.... How is skill prediction any worse? Considering anyone can go and get it but not anyone can up and move closer to the servers?

    My main problem with proxy is NOT sp, even though it is cheating (it adds dps even to single digit ping people, and you know it..) the problem is that it enables a host of other things that are really unhealthy for tera's end-game community to rely on. I think eme could easily have handled this differently by having a solution ready BEFORE dmcaing a bunch of random crap, but what's done is done, they aren't gonna reverse their decision. just wait for proxy devs to grow their patience back and start supporting NA again, it'll happen.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    Most people only use just sp for dps though.. So I don't follow.. The only other thing people use is macros and that does not require proxy, that's the only thing that comes to mind. The exploiters are the minority.
  • StarkhoeStarkhoe ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Christin wrote: »
    you created a thread to tell them an option is to come up with their own program

    You misunderstand my intention. I have assembled a discussion over what I believe are the only possible solutions, so that people will be able to debate them all under one compact thread which (hopefully) addresses only these issues, as a whole. See, the original one EME made has people gunning at all these options as well. But that one felt to me like it was all over the place. In addition, their thread led comments to become more erratic in their nature, due to the limitations of the context itself. This thread is for people like you who wish to speak their minds, without someone attempting to "get rid" of them, just because they have an opinion about these subjects. And, yes, I know that there are several threads around these subjects already. I don`t really care. This is my version of this, and i`m fine with it lol

    On a side note. I have no real intention of debating someone here myself, as I have already said what I think. People either get it, or they don't. Besides. I already mentioned that the technicalities around how to make these suggestions happen don't interest me even abit. I don`t care about all the "cant", "wont", "how", "why". Thats not my concern. I still believe that if one of these 3 options is not implemented, then the 16th will be the beginning of the end. I don`t really care if someone doesn't agrees with me :lol:
  • My main problem with proxy is NOT sp, even though it is cheating (it adds dps even to single digit ping people, and you know it..)

    ????????????? Proxy doesn't "add" any dps, it simply emulates lower ping so you have the POTENTIAL to increase your dps. Keep in mind that if you suck as a player, reducing your ping isn't going to do a damn thing for you. By your logic anyone that lives close to the servers and has <10 ping has "added dps".
    just wait for proxy devs to grow their patience back and start supporting NA again, it'll happen.

    Lol no, they won't. Why would they ever go back to and help out a company profit after they so blatantly spit in their faces among other things? You have absolutely no clue what you're even talking about.

  • Saabi wrote: »
    Most people only use just sp for dps though.. So I don't follow.. The only other thing people use is macros and that does not require proxy, that's the only thing that comes to mind. The exploiters are the minority.

    @Saabi I think that the majority of people only used proxies in order to play the game as it was meant to be played. The majority of players are not cheaters, and I tend to believe that the ones that made the proxies meant for the public use, only did so in an effort to help out players which suffered from ping issues, as well as other issues. I believe that the proxies were meant to be as helpful tools, tools for handling the inherit issues that come up when dealing with an old game like this one. A game whose own creators did not bother to fix. The same thing goes for DPS meters imo. A DPS meter is meant for personal use, so that people will be able to test themselves out, and experiment with different builds, possibly even sharing those builds. Its true that a person can say: "yeah but you can calculate your dps with the system menu!". Yeah right, as if someones really going to do that. Show me that one "genius" that does the math by themselves, after single fight, and in that fashion :lol: The meters are NOT meant for belittling players. Thats the one thing alot of people abused.
  • SageWindu wrote: »
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated?
    How else are you supposed to clear content without mechs being called out before they happen to you in your chat log?
    How else are you supposed to lower your HP in dungeons by falling from the sky?
    How else is your nostrum going to automatically pop itself when you res before the res animation is even finished?
    How else do you skip right to the last boss?
    How else are you supposed to dodge firewalls in HH?
    How else are you never going to miss backstab?
    How else are you going to autoblock on warrior?
    How else are you going to autocleanse?

    Not saying everyone uses those but my point is, there's much more than just SP and DPS Meter. They could've stopped there and we wouldn't be here today. It's their own fault for pushing the boundaries.
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