Eme There is stuff that needs to be addressed

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  • SerenadeSerenade ✭✭
    ghenea wrote: »
    the reply to that is always the same: why i would have to be forced to farm mind-numbing content for hrs to get a few talents when i actually need tons just to hope of getting +1 on high end gears?

    Because there still needs to be a market. What will happen to the economy if you get every little thing you need in one convenient bahaar-sized package?

    I understand that HO enchants cost way too much right now. I proposed reducing costs across the voard for that reason. However, even in the best times back in 2013-2015, the materials you need for enchanting were never dropped in adequate quantities from end-game dungeons. If you think IoD bams are bad, try farming LoT for hours on end for masterwork alkahests.

    But people did it. It was a good system specifically because higher end players didn't want to grind LoT and therefore are willing to pay for mw alkahests. That creates demand, and allows money to actually trickle down to newer players. The same is the case here; gold talents were never dropped in large quantities in end-game dungeons and are the only items tradable for a reason - so that there would actually be demand, and create a (marginally) healthy economy.

    You're proposing just putting everything in one place and ruining the gold talent market just to make things easier for yourself.

    Yeah, I know, level 70 sucks and they never should have done it. The solutuon for that is to streamline 65-70 and get rid of that garbage layers of grind, not to flood the market with Golden Talents.
  • gheneaghenea ✭✭
    i understand your point of view, but i dont see why adding talents drop from higher tier dungeons *too* or from lvl 65+ bams would damage anyone, low tier players in particular would not be affected and would actually find it beneficial a reduction in tb costs of talents.
    they aint making any money from the talents anyway, the only one making money from talents are those already geared enough to sell em, and i guess it was the same back then for mw alkas.
  • Serenade wrote: »
    ghenea wrote: »
    the reply to that is always the same: why i would have to be forced to farm mind-numbing content for hrs to get a few talents when i actually need tons just to hope of getting +1 on high end gears?

    Because there still needs to be a market. What will happen to the economy if you get every little thing you need in one convenient bahaar-sized package?

    I understand that HO enchants cost way too much right now. I proposed reducing costs across the voard for that reason. However, even in the best times back in 2013-2015, the materials you need for enchanting were never dropped in adequate quantities from end-game dungeons. If you think IoD bams are bad, try farming LoT for hours on end for masterwork alkahests.

    But people did it. It was a good system specifically because higher end players didn't want to grind LoT and therefore are willing to pay for mw alkahests. That creates demand, and allows money to actually trickle down to newer players. The same is the case here; gold talents were never dropped in large quantities in end-game dungeons and are the only items tradable for a reason - so that there would actually be demand, and create a (marginally) healthy economy.

    You're proposing just putting everything in one place and ruining the gold talent market just to make things easier for yourself.

    Yeah, I know, level 70 sucks and they never should have done it. The solutuon for that is to streamline 65-70 and get rid of that garbage layers of grind, not to flood the market with Golden Talents.

    There is no market. That's the thing you fail to understand. The market is literally who gets the RNG from swiping the cash cow that has been created due to the failed realization that you don't need a single cow, or, of course, the few people that *do not play the game and just buy and resell stuff to make gold to sell gold illegally*. The moment it became a cash grab, everything went downhill. My sorrow for you if you failed to see the game before this happened. It was never a cash grab and the game flourished in the past.
  • 7XGN9L6GJ77XGN9L6GJ7 ✭✭
    edited May 17
    The fact you bring up LoT though, is laughable. I was able to farm +12 in a single day through LoT. I had the option of doing that, or selling other farmed/gathered items to buy the refined/masterwork. But at the end of the day, I could farm to a reasonable extent without putting ANY real life money in. I could do a day of farming braindead content, I could go gather/craft xermetals, I could do alliance content, etc. And it would net me enough gold to go forward *while having fun*

    To farm the same amount I did back then in one day (on days I didn't have class), I would have to farm 12 hours/day for 2-3 weeks doing braindead content, or swipe a few days worth of pay (I don't go to school anymore, I *work*). Hope this hits home to some extent.
  • SerenadeSerenade ✭✭
    edited May 17
    ghenea wrote: »
    i understand your point of view, but i dont see why adding talents drop from higher tier dungeons *too* or from lvl 65+ bams would damage anyone, low tier players in particular would not be affected and would actually find it beneficial a reduction in tb costs of talents.
    they aint making any money from the talents anyway, the only one making money from talents are those already geared enough to sell em, and i guess it was the same back then for mw alkas.

    Newbies do actually make money from it (well, the few that remain in the game due to how newbie-unfriendly TERA is right now) The only options that's really open to them now are basilisks and vanguards, aftet all, since adventuring coins made sure that high-end players didn't touch anything but Bazaar, which turned lower dungeons into relative ghost towns.

    The biggest issue right now (well, among several) is that BHS made frostmetal the newbie gear but didn't reduce its enchanting costs. That means new players come off the apex quests abd are immediately hit with 35-40 darics per upgrade. Part of why I suggested massive decreases to frostmetal upgrade costs is to address this, so people can actually sell talents they earn rather than being forced to hoard them.

    This, along with lowering HO and Stormcry costs, should alleviate this issue considerably. When FM becomes the starter gear, it stands to reason that the other lower tiers should move down, as well.
    7XGN9L6GJ7 wrote: »
    The fact you bring up LoT though, is laughable. I was able to farm +12 in a single day through LoT. I had the option of doing that, or selling other farmed/gathered items to buy the refined/masterwork. But at the end of the day, I could farm to a reasonable extent without putting ANY real life money in. I could do a day of farming braindead content, I could go gather/craft xermetals, I could do alliance content, etc. And it would net me enough gold to go forward *while having fun*

    To farm the same amount I did back then in one day (on days I didn't have class), I would have to farm 12 hours/day for 2-3 weeks doing braindead content, or swipe a few days worth of pay (I don't go to school anymore, I *work*). Hope this hits home to some extent.

    You didn't actually read my post, did you?

    I understand that HO is excessively difficult. I am aware that level 70 is garbage and a lot of BHS's recent changes are hogwash.

    I am simply saying that the solution is to reduce enchanting mats needed forngear progression rather than haphazardly adding the one tradable resource to bahaar and ruin what's left of the economy.

    Now, stop arguing with strawmen.
  • They removed golden talent from PvP boxes/farming just to increase the prices of talents for the PvE side. It is a shame that not many people are talking about it. Remember PvP players could farm over 1k talents a day and then sell it off and that is how talents were so cheap. It was a great way to have a PvP/PvE interaction in broker. Now the only mass way to get talents in events are buying strongbox keys(which is hard to get these days and you probably have to buy) when they have the 6k talent jackpots. Oh yeah remember when cs gave you a guaranteed key per day? They slowly removed the rewards that could benefit both PvP and PvE players from the PvP side, then increasing both side's costs to do content. PvE got the coin system and PvP got the gear degrade system.

    Have not seen anyone talk about this because it was a kinda slow/hidden transition in a way.
  • 7XGN9L6GJ77XGN9L6GJ7 ✭✭
    edited May 17
    Serenade wrote: »
    ghenea wrote: »
    i understand your point of view, but i dont see why adding talents drop from higher tier dungeons *too* or from lvl 65+ bams would damage anyone, low tier players in particular would not be affected and would actually find it beneficial a reduction in tb costs of talents.
    they aint making any money from the talents anyway, the only one making money from talents are those already geared enough to sell em, and i guess it was the same back then for mw alkas.

    Newbies do actually make money from it (well, the few that remain in the game due to how newbie-unfriendly TERA is right now) The only options that's really open to them now are basilisks and vanguards, aftet all, since adventuring coins made sure that high-end players didn't touch anything but Bazaar, which turned lower dungeons into relative ghost towns.

    The biggest issue right now (well, among several) is that BHS made frostmetal the newbie gear but didn't reduce its enchanting costs. That means new players come off the apex quests abd are immediately hit with 35-40 darics per upgrade. Part of why I suggested massive decreases to frostmetal upgrade costs is to address this, so people can actually sell talents they earn rather than being forced to hoard them.

    This, along with lowering HO and Stormcry costs, should alleviate this issue considerably. When FM becomes the starter gear, it stands to reason that the other lower tiers should move down, as well.
    7XGN9L6GJ7 wrote: »
    The fact you bring up LoT though, is laughable. I was able to farm +12 in a single day through LoT. I had the option of doing that, or selling other farmed/gathered items to buy the refined/masterwork. But at the end of the day, I could farm to a reasonable extent without putting ANY real life money in. I could do a day of farming braindead content, I could go gather/craft xermetals, I could do alliance content, etc. And it would net me enough gold to go forward *while having fun*

    To farm the same amount I did back then in one day (on days I didn't have class), I would have to farm 12 hours/day for 2-3 weeks doing braindead content, or swipe a few days worth of pay (I don't go to school anymore, I *work*). Hope this hits home to some extent.

    You didn't actually read my post, did you?

    I understand that HO is excessively difficult. I am aware that level 70 is garbage and a lot of BHS's recent changes are hogwash.

    I am simply saying that the solution is to reduce enchanting mats needed forngear progression rather than haphazardly adding the one tradable resource to bahaar and ruin what's left of the economy.

    Now, stop arguing with strawmen.

    I read it, which is why it saddens me. LoT farm was at most a nuisance, but it was still doable by end game players and worth their time. It was a near break even, time for mats. That's no longer the case

    *But people did it. It was a good system specifically because higher end players didn't want to grind LoT and therefore are willing to pay for mw alkahests. That creates demand, and allows money to actually trickle down to newer players.*

    I agree with this.

    *The same is the case here; gold talents were never dropped in large quantities in end-game dungeons and are the only items tradable for a reason - so that there would actually be demand, and create a (marginally) healthy economy.*

    I agree with this.
    I implore you to actually look into what you're saying and do a comparison of time investment, then vs now.

    What I'm saying is that it is not proportional to the time investment. Before the time investment would be a break even, you can farm xyz for fod to sell, and buy 50 MWA that took 30 mins to farm for the 30 mins it took you to farm xyz fod gear. Now you're buying the daily allowance of golden talents off 30 mins from vanguard gold, that took 2 hours to farm (or even worse, 5 dollars from daddy's credit card...). It's an increasing problem.

    What I'm getting at is that *time is no longer valued the same*, and that is a REAL issue that needs to be fixed... You can get a weeks worth of time off of a 20 dollar investment and inversely, you can get nothing off of an 800 dollar investment. Yeah, it was always like this, but in the past, it didn't have to do with necessary mats/in game items, it was all cosmetic.

    When you make time an RNG value, you ruin any value to the game, that's what I'm getting at. In the past, the rng was purely convenience/cute stuff. Now your time is thrown to a roulette wheel and it's value determined based on where it stops.
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    The real issue to me isn't the cost of enchanting SC and HO, it's needing to do that to have a high enough item level to be considered worthy of running all of the content. In the days of awakened enchanting you could qualify for everything in the instance matching screen and get vanguard missions for all dungeons if you had +12 mid tier gear.
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19
    66ECX7NAN7 wrote: »
    The real issue to me isn't the cost of enchanting SC and HO, it's needing to do that to have a high enough item level to be considered worthy of running all of the content. In the days of awakened enchanting you could qualify for everything in the instance matching screen and get vanguard missions for all dungeons if you had +12 mid tier gear.

    I concur with this statement. The days of there being a "soft cap" on gear are long gone and have been replaced with a seemingly never-ending treadmill of needing "the new hotness" just to be able to withstand more than 2 hits from the various super big-d**k dungeon bosses.

    Anyone else remember when BiS gear was a luxury instead of a requirement? Those were the days...
  • edited May 19
    SageWindu wrote: »
    66ECX7NAN7 wrote: »
    The real issue to me isn't the cost of enchanting SC and HO, it's needing to do that to have a high enough item level to be considered worthy of running all of the content. In the days of awakened enchanting you could qualify for everything in the instance matching screen and get vanguard missions for all dungeons if you had +12 mid tier gear.

    I concur with this statement. The days of there being a "soft cap" on gear are long gone and have been replaced with a seemingly never-ending treadmill of needing "the new hotness" just to be able to withstand more than 2 hits from the various super big-d**k dungeon bosses.

    Anyone else remember when BiS gear was a luxury instead of a requirement? Those were the days...

    Yeah I remember having to upgrade to regent/queens in Manaya (fighting her with +12 Ambit or similar) and EVENTUALLY getting visionmaker was a super luxury. I have just come back today and are you saying that say if I can grind my way up to say +6 stormcry I won't be able to tackle all the current content? Currently sitting at +0 frostmetal (damn servers down)
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    I can understand people being upset about a lot, but loads of people are coming back to the game. Demanding everything be easier to stop people from leaving isn't quite working out. Yes, lot is a huge grind, but I inspect players, and a lot of them are in SC late level and HO gear. Personally, I would never. I am way too lazy to be bothered. I just do what is given to me for free. However, there are really a lot of people loving this new system. I have no problem with them looking down on me. If they want to work hard for stuff, more power to 'em.
  • gheneaghenea ✭✭
    edited May 19
    please tell me who are those "a lot of people" loving the new system... because all i know are complaining about how things are now, assuming they have any will to progress, of course, cause if you just sit here to do "what is given for free" i doubt you gonna last long in a game where there is no decent event since years.
    it is not really a question of things being "hard" to get, it is not hard, nothing in this game is really hard anymore beside maybe bahaar... it just is long, rng-rigged, and plain boring.
    you cant really "work" on this system, there is nothing to work on, you just need to hope you wont waste 2m gold or hundreds of real money to get nothing, but of course if you say you didnt even bother farming sc, i can see why you are ok with how things are now: you simply did not experience any of the stuff we are discussing here, so what is your point even?

    like if now we have to take into account the opinion of guardian geared people sitting afk in velika all day talking about the state of the game lol
  • You all should just take a break from sitting infront of the computer and go outside. It is a very beautiful time of year!
  • gheneaghenea ✭✭
    edited May 19
    the usual "take a break and go outside" guy has come, a constant in every discussion where things get heated, a boring constant must say also because that kind of answer never brings anything constructive.
    idk why some people think that telling chill down to someone angry will actually make em lol
    does it ever work? lol
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